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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 1808040 times)
cypherdoc
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March 11, 2015, 04:15:26 PM
 #21921

The trend seems to be tapering off, but it's still alive. Meanwhile Ethereum seems to be taking a "money doesn't matter"/"blockchains are a friggin' database technology" stance even after their huge crowdsale.
Of course he'd act that way.

When he wanted the investor money, he had to build expectations of returns.

Now that he has the money, he wants to lower expectations of returns to preemptively shrink the size of the angry mob before it forms.

Biggest legal (but unmoral) con in Bitcoin Land to date.  I will make something (or maybe not) and sell coins for BTC.  And database tech rocks -

19 year old kid might be able to code but has a long way to go to understand how the real world works.

Actually, Vitalik is smarter than all of you. All he has to do to make huge returns for Ethereum is go to the beach and do nothing with the 20k or so coins he's holding and watch them appreciate.
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cypherdoc
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March 11, 2015, 04:18:52 PM
 #21922

Gold really collapsing. Bitcoin UP.



Are you sure? Because losing 5% in one month is not what I call collapsing.

Well, given I made this post on 8/9/11, Gold: I Smell a Trap, I think I've earned the right to say "yeah, I'm sure".

Well, will you look at that. Nice timing. Do you still hold a single ounce of gold or are you 100% BTC in the BTC/GLD pair?

Sold all the silver and most of the gold. Still retain 2 sleeves of gold coins but that's it. Bitcoin is the future.

I keep offering to sell those 2 sleeves to all the gold bugs who stop by every once in a while claiming they're worth $30000/oz for a mere $15000/oz but not a one of them take me up on the deal.

Haha Wink

I am pretty much in the same situation. I sold most of my gold in early 2013 but rebought some in mid 2014.

Gold is still very nice to balance a portfolio of Stocks and Bonds, unlike BTC it is directly negatively correlated to those.

Actually that negative correlation is now changing to positive correlation as we enter deflation. Go back and look at the charts of the brief deflationary 2008-9. Gold and gold stocks dropped significantly along with stocks and non UST bonds. This time that correlated drop should be even greater. And gold is leading.

You are absolutely right and I took that apparent change into account when I bought the gold. But as I was going for an 10y+ investment and I still think in that timeframe it will work as a buffer on swings.

Only time will tell, but even if it is positively correlated it won't hurt me too much.

You'll only be right if Bitcoin fails. That's not looking too likely imo.

Bitcoin has all the properties of a super money that gold can only aspire to be.  That has to be on your radar.
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March 11, 2015, 04:20:02 PM
 #21923

Gold really collapsing. Bitcoin UP.



Are you sure? Because losing 5% in one month is not what I call collapsing.

Well, given I made this post on 8/9/11, Gold: I Smell a Trap, I think I've earned the right to say "yeah, I'm sure".

Well, will you look at that. Nice timing. Do you still hold a single ounce of gold or are you 100% BTC in the BTC/GLD pair?

Sold all the silver and most of the gold. Still retain 2 sleeves of gold coins but that's it. Bitcoin is the future.

I keep offering to sell those 2 sleeves to all the gold bugs who stop by every once in a while claiming they're worth $30000/oz for a mere $15000/oz but not a one of them take me up on the deal.

Haha Wink

I am pretty much in the same situation. I sold most of my gold in early 2013 but rebought some in mid 2014.

Gold is still very nice to balance a portfolio of Stocks and Bonds, unlike BTC it is directly negatively correlated to those.

Actually that negative correlation is now changing to positive correlation as we enter deflation. Go back and look at the charts of the brief deflationary 2008-9. Gold and gold stocks dropped significantly along with stocks and non UST bonds. This time that correlated drop should be even greater. And gold is leading.

You are absolutely right and I took that apparent change into account when I bought the gold. But as I was going for an 10y+ investment and I still think in that timeframe it will work as a buffer on swings.

Only time will tell, but even if it is positively correlated it won't hurt me too much.

You'll only be right if Bitcoin fails. That's not looking too likely imo.

Bitcoin has all the properties of a super money that gold can only aspire to be.  That has to be on your radar.

I have plenty of BTC. Most normal investors would say I am way overinvested. So I am not too worried if BTC fails or succeeds. I will be fine either way.

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cypherdoc
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March 11, 2015, 04:21:27 PM
 #21924

Gold really collapsing. Bitcoin UP.



Are you sure? Because losing 5% in one month is not what I call collapsing.

Well, given I made this post on 8/9/11, Gold: I Smell a Trap, I think I've earned the right to say "yeah, I'm sure".

Well, will you look at that. Nice timing. Do you still hold a single ounce of gold or are you 100% BTC in the BTC/GLD pair?

Sold all the silver and most of the gold. Still retain 2 sleeves of gold coins but that's it. Bitcoin is the future.

I keep offering to sell those 2 sleeves to all the gold bugs who stop by every once in a while claiming they're worth $30000/oz for a mere $15000/oz but not a one of them take me up on the deal.

Haha Wink

I am pretty much in the same situation. I sold most of my gold in early 2013 but rebought some in mid 2014.

Gold is still very nice to balance a portfolio of Stocks and Bonds, unlike BTC it is directly negatively correlated to those.

Actually that negative correlation is now changing to positive correlation as we enter deflation. Go back and look at the charts of the brief deflationary 2008-9. Gold and gold stocks dropped significantly along with stocks and non UST bonds. This time that correlated drop should be even greater. And gold is leading.

You are absolutely right and I took that apparent change into account when I bought the gold. But as I was going for an 10y+ investment and I still think in that timeframe it will work as a buffer on swings.

Only time will tell, but even if it is positively correlated it won't hurt me too much.

You'll only be right if Bitcoin fails. That's not looking too likely imo.

Bitcoin has all the properties of a super money that gold can only aspire to be.  That has to be on your radar.

I have plenty of BTC. Most normal investors would say I am way overinvested. So I am not too worried if BTC fails or succeeds. I will be fine either way.

Good on you
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March 11, 2015, 04:25:26 PM
 #21925

Unless CBs drop Gold as an asset in their vaults, it will be relevant in the future. Either the real economy will catch up with the financial economy, or the financial economy will meet the real economy (or a combination), eventually.

But the waiting is the hardest part. No panic, no gold rush.

Like this post? you can tip me (BTC) 1LGi2DMhectdFSkBid5srrnHk8WHgD3V1d or very WoW (Doge) D9p6FZQb1sKkq9hApy4tnjSduYfdnc74bb
cypherdoc
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March 11, 2015, 04:27:57 PM
 #21926

Unless CBs drop Gold as an asset in their vaults, it will be relevant in the future. Either the real economy will catch up with the financial economy, or the financial economy will meet the real economy or a combination), eventually.

But the waiting is the hardest part. No panic, no gold rush.

Ron Paul and others wonder just how much gold exists in that very Feds vault. 
Zangelbert Bingledack
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March 11, 2015, 04:43:08 PM
 #21927

Of course he'd act that way.

When he wanted the investor money, he had to build expectations of returns.

Now that he has the money, he wants to lower expectations of returns to preemptively shrink the size of the angry mob before it forms.

Ah, the old Angry Mob ManagementTM.
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March 11, 2015, 04:59:19 PM
 #21928

The trend seems to be tapering off, but it's still alive. Meanwhile Ethereum seems to be taking a "money doesn't matter"/"blockchains are a friggin' database technology" stance even after their huge crowdsale.
Of course he'd act that way.

When he wanted the investor money, he had to build expectations of returns.

Now that he has the money, he wants to lower expectations of returns to preemptively shrink the size of the angry mob before it forms.

Biggest legal (but unmoral) con in Bitcoin Land to date.  I will make something (or maybe not) and sell coins for BTC.  And database tech rocks -

19 year old kid might be able to code but has a long way to go to understand how the real world works.

Actually, Vitalik is smarter than all of you. All he has to do to make huge returns for Ethereum is go to the beach and do nothing with the 20k or so coins he's holding and watch them appreciate.

No, it did not take a genius to realize that a natural extension of Bitcoin is to make it Turing complete.  In fact, as soon as an engineer sees any language his next question is "how powerful is it?"  In fact, Satoshi's restraint is interesting in that context, especially his restraint on allowing the definition of other currencies.  I wonder if he felt that that feature would attract the eye of too many three letter agencies...

Its not intelligence but morality that restrains many of us. 

I don't sell (much) at the tops.  I don't want to be known as the guy who bilked lots of suckers out of $ if Bitcoin fails.  I want to be known as a guy who identified BTC's potential as a force for positive social change through economics early and invested accordingly.
sidhujag
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March 11, 2015, 05:16:19 PM
 #21929

Stocks up with dxy hmm
sidhujag
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March 11, 2015, 05:18:30 PM
 #21930

The trend seems to be tapering off, but it's still alive. Meanwhile Ethereum seems to be taking a "money doesn't matter"/"blockchains are a friggin' database technology" stance even after their huge crowdsale.
Of course he'd act that way.

When he wanted the investor money, he had to build expectations of returns.

Now that he has the money, he wants to lower expectations of returns to preemptively shrink the size of the angry mob before it forms.

Biggest legal (but unmoral) con in Bitcoin Land to date.  I will make something (or maybe not) and sell coins for BTC.  And database tech rocks -

19 year old kid might be able to code but has a long way to go to understand how the real world works.

Actually, Vitalik is smarter than all of you. All he has to do to make huge returns for Ethereum is go to the beach and do nothing with the 20k or so coins he's holding and watch them appreciate.

No, it did not take a genius to realize that a natural extension of Bitcoin is to make it Turing complete.  In fact, as soon as an engineer sees any language his next question is "how powerful is it?"  In fact, Satoshi's restraint is interesting in that context, especially his restraint on allowing the definition of other currencies.  I wonder if he felt that that feature would attract the eye of too many three letter agencies...

Its not intelligence but morality that restrains many of us. 

I don't sell (much) at the tops.  I don't want to be known as the guy who bilked lots of suckers out of $ if Bitcoin fails.  I want to be known as a guy who identified BTC's potential as a force for positive social change through economics early and invested accordingly.

I think he probably left it out due to complexity of thoroughly testing and left it up to the world to figure out.. If it has value do you think bitcoin can fork to introduce turing complete script ops?
rocks
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March 11, 2015, 05:25:14 PM
 #21931

embedding the hash of UTXO in the block headers and retaining only the last few hundred blocks is being experimented with as a client option.

Good to know.

screw that, i want direct access to a copy of the entire blockchain at all times.  

No one will deny you that access on an open network should you wish it ... destruction of tx history has a myriad of benefits, and risks (that can be mitigated).

Yes. The power of Bitcoin is enhanced by in-built flexibility. Many nodes will always have and always want the full blockchain, many will be happier with the UTXO set secured by hashes in the main-chain, and many users will be OK with SPV only.

Just because alternative models are available, and can work concurrently with earlier implementations, does not mean everyone jumps ship to one model.

This is exactly why I like UTXO hashes embedded in blocks. It does not preclude nodes from performing full chain scans, it simply extends and provides additional mechanisms to participate in the P2P network.

With UTXO hashes you could think of bitcoin extending to 3 types of nodes, where today we only have two. They would be:

1) SPV clients - Light-clients, do not protect/valid network, protect own private keys only
2) Full nodes - Full participants on P2P network, protect and valid the current ledger only (which is all that is needed to be a node)
3) Archival nodes - Full participants on P2P network, protect and valid the full historical journal (as Marcus called it)

UTXO hashes would enable many more people to participate as P2P nodes and actively add protection to the current ledger. This does not stop several archival nodes from existing who would act as maintainers of the historical journal for prosperity and validation.

By creating this division more people/nodes can participate which improves bitcoin's security.
Zangelbert Bingledack
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March 11, 2015, 05:47:36 PM
 #21932

Meanwhile, US Dollar Index is about to cross 100.
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March 11, 2015, 07:02:56 PM
 #21933

The trend seems to be tapering off, but it's still alive. Meanwhile Ethereum seems to be taking a "money doesn't matter"/"blockchains are a friggin' database technology" stance even after their huge crowdsale.
Of course he'd act that way.

When he wanted the investor money, he had to build expectations of returns.

Now that he has the money, he wants to lower expectations of returns to preemptively shrink the size of the angry mob before it forms.

Biggest legal (but unmoral) con in Bitcoin Land to date.  I will make something (or maybe not) and sell coins for BTC.  And database tech rocks -

19 year old kid might be able to code but has a long way to go to understand how the real world works.

Actually, Vitalik is smarter than all of you. All he has to do to make huge returns for Ethereum is go to the beach and do nothing with the 20k or so coins he's holding and watch them appreciate.

No, it did not take a genius to realize that a natural extension of Bitcoin is to make it Turing complete.  In fact, as soon as an engineer sees any language his next question is "how powerful is it?"  In fact, Satoshi's restraint is interesting in that context, especially his restraint on allowing the definition of other currencies.  I wonder if he felt that that feature would attract the eye of too many three letter agencies...

Its not intelligence but morality that restrains many of us. 

I don't sell (much) at the tops.  I don't want to be known as the guy who bilked lots of suckers out of $ if Bitcoin fails.  I want to be known as a guy who identified BTC's potential as a force for positive social change through economics early and invested accordingly.

I think he probably left it out due to complexity of thoroughly testing and left it up to the world to figure out.. If it has value do you think bitcoin can fork to introduce turing complete script ops?

Right and also to emphasize the rarity of btc.  And so the system doesn't smell too strongly of a method to issue unregulated securities.  But the real problem is not turning complete but getting data to run the program on.  Or more accurately getting trust free consensus on input data.  If you use an oracle to supply the data that oracle might as well just execute the algorithm.   Data like the cost of btc in usd or who won the superbowl.  I know how to do the former but not the latter.
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March 11, 2015, 10:54:19 PM
 #21934

Quote
I think he probably left it out due to complexity of thoroughly testing and left it up to the world to figure out.. If it has value do you think bitcoin can fork to introduce turing complete script ops?

Full Turing complete scripting can easily be done on a sidechain, in fact it will most likely be one of the first implementations, i.e. a next gen 'ethereum' sidechain, without the Appcoin necessitating wonky economic justifactions.

BTW: Vitalik is not in charge of the treasury over at ethereum, he's just a useful starry-eyed wunder-kid genius front guy ... the truth is stranger than fiction.

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March 11, 2015, 11:14:16 PM
 #21935

Unless CBs drop Gold as an asset in their vaults, it will be relevant in the future. Either the real economy will catch up with the financial economy, or the financial economy will meet the real economy or a combination), eventually.

But the waiting is the hardest part. No panic, no gold rush.

Ron Paul and others wonder just how much gold exists in that very Feds vault. 

We may find out that the US government sold bitcoin near the bottom (US Marshals auctions) and bought (or at least held) gold near the top.  Typical

Counterfeit:  made in imitation of something else with intent to deceive:  merriam-webster
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March 11, 2015, 11:28:48 PM
 #21936

Unless CBs drop Gold as an asset in their vaults, it will be relevant in the future. Either the real economy will catch up with the financial economy, or the financial economy will meet the real economy or a combination), eventually.

But the waiting is the hardest part. No panic, no gold rush.

Ron Paul and others wonder just how much gold exists in that very Feds vault. 

We may find out that the US government sold bitcoin near the bottom (US Marshals auctions) and bought (or at least held) gold near the top.  Typical

The Browns Bottom equivalent?
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March 12, 2015, 12:01:06 AM
 #21937

Actually, Vitalik is smarter than all of you. All he has to do to make huge returns for Ethereum is go to the beach and do nothing with the 20k or so coins he's holding and watch them appreciate.

And sell out to Oracle for a giant pile of fiat.

The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy.  David Chaum 1996
Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect.  Adam Back 2014
"Monero" : { Private - Auditable - 100% Fungible - Flexible Blocksize - Wild & Free® - Intro - Wallets - Podcats - Roadmap - Dice - Blackjack - Github - Android }


Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016
Blocks must necessarily be full for the Bitcoin network to be able to pay for its own security.  davout 2015
Blocksize is an intentionally limited resource, like the 21e6 BTC limit.  Changing it degrades the surrounding economics, creating negative incentives.  Jeff Garzik 2013


"I believed @Dashpay instamine was a bug & not a feature but then read: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg13017231#msg13017231
I'm not against people making money, but can't support questionable origins."
https://twitter.com/Tone_LLT/status/717822927908024320


The raison d'être of bitcoin is trustlessness. - Eric Lombrozo 2015
It is an Engineering Requirement that Bitcoin be “Above the Law”  Paul Sztorc 2015
Resiliency, not efficiency, is the paramount goal of decentralized, non-state sanctioned currency -Jon Matonis 2015

Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016

Technology tends to move in the direction of making surveillance easier, and the ability of computers to track us doubles every eighteen months. - Phil Zimmerman 2013

The only way to make software secure, reliable, and fast is to make it small. Fight Features. - Andy Tanenbaum 2004

"Hard forks cannot be co
uki
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March 12, 2015, 12:17:13 AM
 #21938

Meanwhile, US Dollar Index is about to cross 100.
Looks toppish to me. Two important levels 100 (psychological) and 101.50.
Expect a correction from there. Gold doesn't look that bad so far.

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March 12, 2015, 12:22:15 AM
 #21939

Meanwhile, US Dollar Index is about to cross 100.
Looks toppish to me. Two important levels 100 (psychological) and 101.50.
Expect a correction from there. Gold doesn't look that bad so far.

Looks topish? lol check the monthly.. its prob about half way through
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March 12, 2015, 01:40:09 AM
 #21940

Keynes, a homo sex maniac:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/analysis-and-features/john-maynard-keynes-new-biography-reveals-shocking-details-about-the-economists-sex-life-10101971.html

It is quite amusing.
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