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Question: Will you support Gavin's new block size limit hard fork of 8MB by January 1, 2016 then doubling every 2 years?
1.  yes
2.  no

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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 1808044 times)
cypherdoc
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June 07, 2015, 10:42:42 PM
 #25941

every attribute you seem to have, he seems to have.  every attribute he seems to have, you seem to have.

His left eye was losing vision. My right eye is 90% blinded. Whoops.

This is really comical. Are you under stress because of the court case? You are acting strange.

I suggested you get on Skype so you can see me on web cam. But you refused.

pm'd

Next day. I will sleep.

i'm not interested in talking.  one quick glance to verify you're not Armstrong.

I don't have Skype installed at this location. I have to travel to other location.

i call your bluff and now you can't deliver?
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solex
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100 satoshis -> ISO code


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June 07, 2015, 10:45:27 PM
 #25942

How does velocity of money in gold and between central banks compare to the velocity of money with PayPal and Visa, either in volume or transactional bandwidth?

I don't think that there is much day-to-day traffic in gold between central banks because that role was fully devolved to the US$ in 1971. So, in the modern era there is a split between SoV and payments, which didn't exist before the 20th Century.
Bitcoin is a difficult comparison because it straddles and rejoins the two domains: currency and payments, so while gold is primarily a SoV currency, Visa is 100% a payment system and contributes to the velocity in fiat. The potential for Bitcoin is phenomenal because it can usurp both domains if computing technology permits. This is probably only a question of time because computing tech is getting more powerful at a much faster rate than the world economy is growing.
Bitcoin is also interesting because for the first time there is a currency for which velocity can be exactly measured, as most of the time it is statistical guesswork.

They are not incorrect about it won't run decentralized.

The most important single feature of Bitcoin is its 21 million cap. Decentralization is the horse for this cart. The goal is to maintain the 21 million (preventing extra issuance and double-spending). Decentralization is the only way to be sure of this, compared to say, XRP, which could be upped at any time.
The solution to centralization concerns is to implement payment channels for node services, as Justus Ranvier has detailed, not to restrict volumes by pretending that Bitcoin is competing with gold only.

TPTB_need_war
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June 07, 2015, 10:59:32 PM
 #25943

every attribute you seem to have, he seems to have.  every attribute he seems to have, you seem to have.

His left eye was losing vision. My right eye is 90% blinded. Whoops.

This is really comical. Are you under stress because of the court case? You are acting strange.

I suggested you get on Skype so you can see me on web cam. But you refused.

pm'd

Next day. I will sleep.

i'm not interested in talking.  one quick glance to verify you're not Armstrong.

I don't have Skype installed at this location. I have to travel to other location.

I believe you are interested in constructing evidence to build some civil suit against me.

cypherdoc
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June 07, 2015, 11:01:41 PM
 #25944

every attribute you seem to have, he seems to have.  every attribute he seems to have, you seem to have.

His left eye was losing vision. My right eye is 90% blinded. Whoops.

This is really comical. Are you under stress because of the court case? You are acting strange.

I suggested you get on Skype so you can see me on web cam. But you refused.

pm'd

Next day. I will sleep.

i'm not interested in talking.  one quick glance to verify you're not Armstrong.

I don't have Skype installed at this location. I have to travel to other location.

I believe you are interested in constructing evidence to build some civil suit against me.

lol, see i knew it.  all blow and no go.
cypherdoc
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June 07, 2015, 11:06:26 PM
 #25945

every attribute you seem to have, he seems to have.  every attribute he seems to have, you seem to have.

His left eye was losing vision. My right eye is 90% blinded. Whoops.

This is really comical. Are you under stress because of the court case? You are acting strange.

I suggested you get on Skype so you can see me on web cam. But you refused.

pm'd

Next day. I will sleep.

i'm not interested in talking.  one quick glance to verify you're not Armstrong.

I don't have Skype installed at this location. I have to travel to other location.

I believe you are interested in constructing evidence to build some civil suit against me.

"i need to sleep", whimper, whimper.  "i need to travel to another location", whimper, whimper.

ROFLMAO! Cheesy  what a jackass.
vokain
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V.V.V.V.V.


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June 07, 2015, 11:10:32 PM
 #25946

every attribute you seem to have, he seems to have.  every attribute he seems to have, you seem to have.

His left eye was losing vision. My right eye is 90% blinded. Whoops.

This is really comical. Are you under stress because of the court case? You are acting strange.

I suggested you get on Skype so you can see me on web cam. But you refused.

pm'd

Next day. I will sleep.

i'm not interested in talking.  one quick glance to verify you're not Armstrong.

I don't have Skype installed at this location. I have to travel to other location.

I believe you are interested in constructing evidence to build some civil suit against me.

"i need to sleep", whimper, whimper.  "i need to travel to another location", whimper, whimper.

ROFLMAO! Cheesy  what a jackass.

TPTB_need_war, he may be able to check out your eye Wink

...مكتوب
Escape the plutocrats’ zanpakutō, Flower in the Mirror, Moon on the Water: brave “the ascent which is rough and steep” (Plato).
cypherdoc
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June 07, 2015, 11:12:46 PM
 #25947

every attribute you seem to have, he seems to have.  every attribute he seems to have, you seem to have.

His left eye was losing vision. My right eye is 90% blinded. Whoops.

This is really comical. Are you under stress because of the court case? You are acting strange.

I suggested you get on Skype so you can see me on web cam. But you refused.

pm'd

Next day. I will sleep.

i'm not interested in talking.  one quick glance to verify you're not Armstrong.

I don't have Skype installed at this location. I have to travel to other location.

I believe you are interested in constructing evidence to build some civil suit against me.

"i need to sleep", whimper, whimper.  "i need to travel to another location", whimper, whimper.

ROFLMAO! Cheesy  what a jackass.

TPTB_need_war, he may be able to check out your eye Wink

"but he may construct a civil lawsuit against me", whimper, whimper.  "oh wait, i'm in the Phillipines!  or am i?", whimper, whimper.
cypherdoc
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June 07, 2015, 11:23:51 PM
 #25948

but i don't think you are a programmer.  i think you're Armstrong.

You are losing your sanity dude. It is really pitiful to watch you go on this delusional tirade. Me not a programmer, hahaha.

Btw, Armstrong is a very skilled programmer.

there you go again.

every attribute you seem to have, he seems to have.  every attribute he seems to have, you seem to have.

Martin Armstrong ' s  writing typically includes numerous spelling and grammatical errors that we don't see with Anonymint et AL.  MA'S speech and writing are patterned very much the same, while very unlike Anonymint's  consistent writing style.  I try not to stick my oar into this swirling pool of egos and  childish arguments but sometimes I guess I like to waste time too!

that's possible altho from what i recall those grammatical problems were confined to the time when he was in prison.  remember, he was beat up, probably malnourished, mentally ill, and who knows, maybe faking mistakes to make his condition appear worse for when he appealed.  
explorer
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June 07, 2015, 11:25:42 PM
 #25949

but i don't think you are a programmer.  i think you're Armstrong.

You are losing your sanity dude. It is really pitiful to watch you go on this delusional tirade. Me not a programmer, hahaha.

Btw, Armstrong is a very skilled programmer.

there you go again.

every attribute you seem to have, he seems to have.  every attribute he seems to have, you seem to have.

Martin Armstrong ' s  writing typically includes numerous spelling and grammatical errors that we don't see with Anonymint et AL.  MA'S speech and writing are patterned very much the same, while very unlike Anonymint's  consistent writing style.  I try not to stick my oar into this swirling pool of egos and  childish arguments but sometimes I guess I like to waste time too!

that's possible altho from what i recall those grammatical problems were confined to the time when he was in prison.  remember, he was beat up, probably malnourished, mentally ill, and who knows, maybe faking mistakes to make his condition appear worse for when he appealed.  

No, to this day, reading his blog makes me cringe. 
marcus_of_augustus
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June 07, 2015, 11:34:13 PM
 #25950

Hi guise, how's the slow-mo trainwreck going in here? everyone happy? good  Wink

Notice how it went off the rails when you started crappin all over the devs?

Try to keep it in your trousers, remember who's piloting this plane, who's the passengers and stop trying to grab the stick, KK? Ta, tally ho.

cypherdoc
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June 07, 2015, 11:38:28 PM
 #25951

Hi guise, how's the slow-mo trainwreck going in here? everyone happy? good  Wink

Notice how it went off the rails when you started crappin all over the devs?

Try to keep it in your trousers, remember who's piloting this plane, who's the passengers and stop trying to grab the stick, KK? Ta, tally ho.

TPTB dev goes down with a whimper and right on time, MOA dev shows up throwing hand grenades.

anyone see the pattern i've already pointed out?  but it's ok, there are plenty of excellent devs with the right vision.
vokain
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V.V.V.V.V.


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June 07, 2015, 11:44:21 PM
 #25952

Hi guise, how's the slow-mo trainwreck going in here? everyone happy? good  Wink

Notice how it went off the rails when you started crappin all over the devs?

Try to keep it in your trousers, remember who's piloting this plane, who's the passengers and stop trying to grab the stick, KK? Ta, tally ho.

TPTB dev goes down with a whimper and right on time, MOA dev shows up throwing hand grenades.

anyone see the pattern i've already pointed out?  but it's ok, there are plenty of excellent devs with the right vision.

What, the "if they're not with me, then they're against me" reality pattern?

...مكتوب
Escape the plutocrats’ zanpakutō, Flower in the Mirror, Moon on the Water: brave “the ascent which is rough and steep” (Plato).
cypherdoc
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June 07, 2015, 11:49:27 PM
 #25953

Hi guise, how's the slow-mo trainwreck going in here? everyone happy? good  Wink

Notice how it went off the rails when you started crappin all over the devs?

Try to keep it in your trousers, remember who's piloting this plane, who's the passengers and stop trying to grab the stick, KK? Ta, tally ho.

TPTB dev goes down with a whimper and right on time, MOA dev shows up throwing hand grenades.

anyone see the pattern i've already pointed out?  but it's ok, there are plenty of excellent devs with the right vision.

What, the "if they're not with me, then they're against me" reality pattern?

it's not "with me".  it's with Gavin.  yes, i trust Gavin way more than the other financially conflicted Blockstream devs. 

i'm not the one who came up with the block size increase idea.  it's a recommendation from the only guy who could have got us here since Satoshi turned over the reins to him.  guys like gmax and luke were causing trouble long before this issue became a debate.
iCEBREAKER
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Crypto is the separation of Power and State.


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June 07, 2015, 11:52:26 PM
 #25954

Game over, Frap.doc.


FYI, Nick Szabo retweeted (and added to his favorites):
https://twitter.com/oleganza/status/605117508971053057
"@oleganza: If Bitcoin was ever competing with Paypal or Visa, it would not even start. It competes with gold and central banks."


Thus Saith The LORD.  Amen!

of course not.  as long as you continue to constrain it to 1MB.

Cypherdoc is correct.

Nick Szabo and Oleg Andreev are both wrong.

[further deranged babbling]


The point Szabo retweeted (and favorited) is that it's not possible for Bitcoin's volumes to approach Visa-scale just by using gigantic blocks.

We simply can't get there from here.  Simply super-sizing blocks is not true scaling.  We need side/tree/Lightening/alt chains to even plan the start of the long journey towards coming close to approaching in theory the subject of scaling to Visa+Paypal+gold+TBTF zombie bank levels.

Diverse/diffuse/defensible/resilient blockchains are not a substitute for specialized/proprietary/centralized/optimized real-time Visa-type retail POS systems or consumer friendly Paypal-style payment systems.

The Genesis Block mentions bailouts for TBTF banks.  It does not mention Visa or Paypal.

Szabo conceived of Bitcoin and Monero in the early 90s, so I think he knows what he's talking about in matters of e-cash.



Bitcoin is revolution, not yet another trendy new payment rail for impressing your yuppie friends at the hipster micro-roastery.

The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy.  David Chaum 1996
Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect.  Adam Back 2014
"Monero" : { Private - Auditable - 100% Fungible - Flexible Blocksize - Wild & Free® - Intro - Wallets - Podcats - Roadmap - Dice - Blackjack - Github - Android }


Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016
Blocks must necessarily be full for the Bitcoin network to be able to pay for its own security.  davout 2015
Blocksize is an intentionally limited resource, like the 21e6 BTC limit.  Changing it degrades the surrounding economics, creating negative incentives.  Jeff Garzik 2013


"I believed @Dashpay instamine was a bug & not a feature but then read: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg13017231#msg13017231
I'm not against people making money, but can't support questionable origins."
https://twitter.com/Tone_LLT/status/717822927908024320


The raison d'être of bitcoin is trustlessness. - Eric Lombrozo 2015
It is an Engineering Requirement that Bitcoin be “Above the Law”  Paul Sztorc 2015
Resiliency, not efficiency, is the paramount goal of decentralized, non-state sanctioned currency -Jon Matonis 2015

Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016

Technology tends to move in the direction of making surveillance easier, and the ability of computers to track us doubles every eighteen months. - Phil Zimmerman 2013

The only way to make software secure, reliable, and fast is to make it small. Fight Features. - Andy Tanenbaum 2004

"Hard forks cannot be co
justusranvier
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June 07, 2015, 11:52:49 PM
 #25955

Hi guise, how's the slow-mo trainwreck going in here? everyone happy? good  Wink

Notice how it went off the rails when you started crappin all over the devs?

Try to keep it in your trousers, remember who's piloting this plane, who's the passengers and stop trying to grab the stick, KK? Ta, tally ho.
What are you, some kind of mafia enforcer?

Are you're saying that if anyone dares to question the #bitcoin-wizards they'll send their sockpuppets around to vandalize conversations as retaliation?
cypherdoc
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June 07, 2015, 11:57:18 PM
 #25956

Hi guise, how's the slow-mo trainwreck going in here? everyone happy? good  Wink

Notice how it went off the rails when you started crappin all over the devs?

Try to keep it in your trousers, remember who's piloting this plane, who's the passengers and stop trying to grab the stick, KK? Ta, tally ho.
What are you, some kind of mafia enforcer?

Are you're saying that if anyone dares to question the #bitcoin-wizards they'll send their sockpuppets around to vandalize conversations as retaliation?

that'd be him.  MOA is an extremist.  the worst of the bunch.
Odalv
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June 08, 2015, 12:05:35 AM
 #25957

Hi guise, how's the slow-mo trainwreck going in here? everyone happy? good  Wink

Notice how it went off the rails when you started crappin all over the devs?

Try to keep it in your trousers, remember who's piloting this plane, who's the passengers and stop trying to grab the stick, KK? Ta, tally ho.

TPTB dev goes down with a whimper and right on time, MOA dev shows up throwing hand grenades.

anyone see the pattern i've already pointed out?  but it's ok, there are plenty of excellent devs with the right vision.

What, the "if they're not with me, then they're against me" reality pattern?

it's not "with me".  it's with Gavin.  yes, i trust Gavin way more than the other financially conflicted Blockstream devs. 

i'm not the one who came up with the block size increase idea.  it's a recommendation from the only guy who could have got us here since Satoshi turned over the reins to him.  guys like gmax and luke were causing trouble long before this issue became a debate.

Gregory Maxwell is Bitcoin core developer. He is author of  CoinJoin.

also

Type 2 hierarchical deterministic wallet

This wallet type is described in BIP 0032 and is fully implemented in TREZOR, Electrum and CarbonWallet. The seed is a random 128 bit value presented to the user as a 12 word mnemonic using common English words. The seed is used after 100,000 rounds of SHA256 to slow down attacks against weak user-chosen strings. [1].

The initial description and workings of this wallet type is credited to Gregory Maxwell.
=======
You cypherdoc are an anonymous troll. You are not in same league as Blockstream guys.
cypherdoc
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June 08, 2015, 12:06:45 AM
 #25958

Game over, Frap.doc.


FYI, Nick Szabo retweeted (and added to his favorites):
https://twitter.com/oleganza/status/605117508971053057
"@oleganza: If Bitcoin was ever competing with Paypal or Visa, it would not even start. It competes with gold and central banks."


Thus Saith The LORD.  Amen!

of course not.  as long as you continue to constrain it to 1MB.

Cypherdoc is correct.

Nick Szabo and Oleg Andreev are both wrong.

[further deranged babbling]


The point Szabo retweeted (and favorited) is that it's not possible for Bitcoin's volumes to approach Visa-scale just by using gigantic blocks.

no, no, we learned from the great programmer, TPTB, that he means the program will not run  Cheesy
Quote

We simply can't get there from here.  Simply super-sizing blocks is not true scaling.  We need side/tree/Lightening/alt chains to even plan the start of the long journey towards coming close to approaching in theory the subject of scaling to Visa+Paypal+gold+TBTF zombie bank levels.

Diverse/diffuse/defensible/resilient blockchains are not a substitute for specialized/proprietary/centralized/optimized real-time Visa-type retail POS systems or consumer friendly Paypal-style payment systems.

what matter for digital gold is that it's supply remains fixed but gets secured by widespread adoption across the planet.  everybody needs to use it to protect against gvts trying to stomp it out
Quote

The Genesis Block mentions bailouts for TBTF banks.  It does not mention Visa or Paypal.

"banks" were used as a broad term to encompass Visa/Paypal
Quote

Szabo conceived of Bitcoin and Monero in the early 90s, so I think he knows what he's talking about in matters of e-cash.

not really.  he created a piece that Satoshi joined with other pieces to form Bitcoin.
Quote

-
Bitcoin is revolution, not yet another trendy new payment rail for impressing your yuppie friends at the hipster micro-roastery.

it is a revolution.  but it needs to be widely adopted.
marcus_of_augustus
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June 08, 2015, 12:15:10 AM
 #25959

Hi guise, how's the slow-mo trainwreck going in here? everyone happy? good  Wink

Notice how it went off the rails when you started crappin all over the devs?

Try to keep it in your trousers, remember who's piloting this plane, who's the passengers and stop trying to grab the stick, KK? Ta, tally ho.
What are you, some kind of mafia enforcer?

Are you're saying that if anyone dares to question the #bitcoin-wizards they'll send their sockpuppets around to vandalize conversations as retaliation?

Wanton character assassination, smearing, slander (libel) and sundry rat-bastard tactics are not "daring to question". Let's keep the debates honourable, civil and based on their merits and things will go along just fine. Merely an observation.

How's your closed source projects with Goldman Sachs alumni coming along btw Justus?

cypherdoc
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June 08, 2015, 12:16:01 AM
 #25960

Hi guise, how's the slow-mo trainwreck going in here? everyone happy? good  Wink

Notice how it went off the rails when you started crappin all over the devs?

Try to keep it in your trousers, remember who's piloting this plane, who's the passengers and stop trying to grab the stick, KK? Ta, tally ho.

TPTB dev goes down with a whimper and right on time, MOA dev shows up throwing hand grenades.

anyone see the pattern i've already pointed out?  but it's ok, there are plenty of excellent devs with the right vision.

What, the "if they're not with me, then they're against me" reality pattern?

it's not "with me".  it's with Gavin.  yes, i trust Gavin way more than the other financially conflicted Blockstream devs. 

i'm not the one who came up with the block size increase idea.  it's a recommendation from the only guy who could have got us here since Satoshi turned over the reins to him.  guys like gmax and luke were causing trouble long before this issue became a debate.

Gregory Maxwell is Bitcoin core developer. He is author of  CoinJoin.

also

Type 2 hierarchical deterministic wallet

This wallet type is described in BIP 0032 and is fully implemented in TREZOR, Electrum and CarbonWallet. The seed is a random 128 bit value presented to the user as a 12 word mnemonic using common English words. The seed is used after 100,000 rounds of SHA256 to slow down attacks against weak user-chosen strings. [1].

The initial description and workings of this wallet type is credited to Gregory Maxwell.
=======
You cypherdoc are an anonymous troll. You are not in same league as Blockstream guys.

hey, i'm just following the Chief Scientist.  he's telling me to upgrade to XT.  no one's forcing you to follow this thread. Cheesy
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