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Question: Will you support Gavin's new block size limit hard fork of 8MB by January 1, 2016 then doubling every 2 years?
1.  yes
2.  no

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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 1979498 times)
Adrian-x
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June 09, 2015, 02:36:59 AM
 #26121

i find 21's two yr experience in mining very encouraging/exciting in anticipation of their ability to roll out relevant IOT asic chips, esp for smartphones.  that should drive things like batshit:

http://i.imgur.com/keXaz8c.png

21's mining use case shows that blocksize has no impact to miners at all.

The devices targeted for 21's mining rigs could not even handle 1MB blocks (let alone 20MB or 1GB), yet they can still mine. The reason is simple, miners using the stratum protocol only require <1kbps. It is the remote pool that needs to be manage full blocks. This remote pool can be anywhere, the miners themselves do not care about blocksize.

If 20MB blocks would hurt current miners, then 21's target devices wouldn't exist because they could not even handle 1MB blocks. But since miners only need to support stratum, blocksize has no impact.



 [Tongue] i think you are wrong, we need to centralize development for the reasons provided by a few Core Developers so they can maintained a decentralized network, you are siding with the ignorant masses if you can't understand why we cant increase the block size now [/ Tongue]

Thank me in Bits 12MwnzxtprG2mHm3rKdgi7NmJKCypsMMQw
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marcus_of_augustus
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June 09, 2015, 02:58:47 AM
 #26122

Dawn raid RPG incoming.

Sidechains ... coming up next!! exciting times!

http://www.coindesk.com/blockstream-open-source-code-sidechains/

Open source, "nothing up my sleeve", genuine article, don't settle for fake 'solutions' (xt) with hidden agendas.

We won't need tptb to continue the trainwreck from here, the SC buzz will send frappe.doc over the edge.
 
Looking forward to a 'Monero'-like ring signature sidechain and Lightning network sidechain as first working demonstrations for the force of the distributed sidechain solution of self-similar networks operating concomitantly at multiple scales transferring value effortlessly up and down the wealth cascade.

cypherdoc
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June 09, 2015, 03:10:31 AM
 #26123

Dawn raid RPG incoming.

Sidechains ... coming up next!! exciting times!

http://www.coindesk.com/blockstream-open-source-code-sidechains/

Open source, "nothing up my sleeve", genuine article, don't settle for fake 'solutions' (xt) with hidden agendas.

We won't need tptb to continue the trainwreck from here, the SC buzz will send frappe.doc over the edge.
 
Looking forward to a 'Monero'-like ring signature sidechain and Lightning network sidechain as first working demonstrations for the force of the distributed sidechain solution of self-similar networks operating concomitantly at multiple scales transferring value effortlessly up and down the wealth cascade.

well now we know why the Blockstream cabal has been stalling.  despite denying that scaling was to be a selling point.  sounds like they're selling it hard now:

"The project has been heralded as a potential solution to bitcoin's perceived scalability issues for its attempt to enable experimentation on bitcoin's code."
TPTB_need_war
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June 09, 2015, 03:11:43 AM
 #26124

Looking forward to a 'Monero'-like ring signature sidechain and Lightning network sidechain as first working demonstrations for the force of the distributed sidechain solution of self-similar networks operating concomitantly at multiple scales transferring value effortlessly up and down the wealth cascade.

Shit this is too important to ignore. Actually I had been thinking this out over the past days.

Subsumption of all altcoin advantages into pegged Bitcoin side chains is a very powerful threat to avoiding NWO dominance.

At the end game, TPTB push all their zombies that use Coinbase, Circle, Paypal, Facebook, etc into a pegged side chain which is a centralized ledger with world bank control over the debasement rate. MP's defense plan is destroyed by the pegging.

Monero has no technological disruption scaling advantages over Bitcoin in terms of mining, thus subsumption into a pegged Bitcoin side chain is imminent. Whereas a coin with scalable mining AND protections against implemention of pegged side chains (if that is possible, on my todo list to research the Blockstream whitepaper federation proposal) would not be implemented as a pegged Bitcoin side chain without losing the protection. Thus such a coin would garnish support from all those who want to resist the NWO outcome. Or they buy the pegged side chain version, because unlike other pegged side chains which can't resist 50% attack, such a side chain could survive alongside the cabal NWO side chain. However they may not be inclined to invest in the pegged side chain version of such a coin design, because they lose the upside ROI of such a novel design. Thus I am fairly confident that I possess the killer design which resists this subsumption. Blockstream is attempting to destroy the economics of altcoin, but I have an ace up my sleeve.

That in a nutshell is how this battle is going to play out. You read it first here. Don't forget who told you first.

The wildcard is if GavinCoin proceeds and there is a war now against MP et al. That might open a (probably short-term) window for Monero.

in the end, Bitcoin with larger blocks is what will win.  sidechains will die and take Blockstream with it.

Sorry but the zombie masses who will use Circle, Coinbase, Paypal, Facebook, 21 Inc devices, etc.. won't care when their coins are processed in a centralized pegged side chain (with large blocks).

cypherdoc
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June 09, 2015, 03:12:44 AM
 #26125

Dawn raid RPG incoming.

Sidechains ... coming up next!! exciting times!

http://www.coindesk.com/blockstream-open-source-code-sidechains/

Open source, "nothing up my sleeve", genuine article, don't settle for fake 'solutions' (xt) with hidden agendas.

We won't need tptb to continue the trainwreck from here, the SC buzz will send frappe.doc over the edge.
 
Looking forward to a 'Monero'-like ring signature sidechain and Lightning network sidechain as first working demonstrations for the force of the distributed sidechain solution of self-similar networks operating concomitantly at multiple scales transferring value effortlessly up and down the wealth cascade.

well now we know why the Blockstream cabal has been stalling.  despite denying that scaling was to be a selling point.  sounds like they're selling it hard now:

"The project has been heralded as a potential solution to bitcoin's perceived scalability issues for its attempt to enable experimentation on bitcoin's code."

sounds like they're selling out to banks just as we warned:

"He cited banks in particular as one group of interested parties, which he noted are interested in the ability to issue and distribute assets on the blockchain, as well as provide infrastructure for what Back called “new kinds of markets”.
iCEBREAKER
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June 09, 2015, 03:13:52 AM
 #26126

Dawn raid RPG incoming.

Sidechains ... coming up next!! exciting times!

http://www.coindesk.com/blockstream-open-source-code-sidechains/

Open source, "nothing up my sleeve", genuine article, don't settle for fake 'solutions' (xt) with hidden agendas.

We won't need tptb to continue the trainwreck from here, the SC buzz will send frappe.doc over the edge.
 
Looking forward to a 'Monero'-like ring signature sidechain and Lightning network sidechain as first working demonstrations for the force of the distributed sidechain solution of self-similar networks operating concomitantly at multiple scales transferring value effortlessly up and down the wealth cascade.

Good job Blockstream Boys!

The World According To Frap.Doc:

-Gold is DOOOMED, because Bitcoin
-Monero is DOOMED, because Bitcoin
-Bitcoin is DOOOMED, because sidechains
-Bitcoin is DOOOMED, because 1MB


 Roll Eyes
 Grin

The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy.  David Chaum 1996
"Monero" : { Private - Auditable - 100% Fungible - Flexible Blocksize - Wild & Free® - Intro - Core GUI - Podcats - Roadmap - Dice - Blackjack - Github - Android }
MoneroForCash.com  |  Buy and sell XMR near you  |  Easymonero.com  |  Bitsquare.io - Decentralized XMR Exchange  |  Buy XMR with fiat
Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect.  Adam Back 2014

Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016
Blocks must necessarily be full for the Bitcoin network to be able to pay for its own security.  davout 2015
Blocksize is an intentionally limited resource, like the 21e6 BTC limit.  Changing it degrades the surrounding economics, creating negative incentives.  Jeff Garzik 2013


The raison d'être of bitcoin is trustlessness. - Eric Lombrozo 2015
It is an Engineering Requirement that Bitcoin be “Above the Law”  Paul Sztorc 2015
Resiliency, not efficiency, is the paramount goal of decentralized, non-state sanctioned currency -Jon Matonis 2015

Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016

Technology tends to move in the direction of making surveillance easier, and the ability of computers to track us doubles every eighteen months. - Phil Zimmerman 2013

The only way to make software secure, reliable, and fast is to make it small. Fight Features. - Andy Tanenbaum 2004
justusranvier
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June 09, 2015, 03:17:18 AM
 #26127

So they were lying?

I'm shocked.
cypherdoc
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June 09, 2015, 03:19:55 AM
 #26128

Dawn raid RPG incoming.

Sidechains ... coming up next!! exciting times!

http://www.coindesk.com/blockstream-open-source-code-sidechains/

Open source, "nothing up my sleeve", genuine article, don't settle for fake 'solutions' (xt) with hidden agendas.

We won't need tptb to continue the trainwreck from here, the SC buzz will send frappe.doc over the edge.
 
Looking forward to a 'Monero'-like ring signature sidechain and Lightning network sidechain as first working demonstrations for the force of the distributed sidechain solution of self-similar networks operating concomitantly at multiple scales transferring value effortlessly up and down the wealth cascade.

Good job Blockstream Boys!

The World According To Frap.Doc:

-Gold is DOOOMED, because Bitcoin
-Monero is DOOMED, because Bitcoin
-Bitcoin is DOOOMED, because sidechains
-Bitcoin is DOOOMED, because 1MB


 Roll Eyes
 Grin

in the end, Bitcoin with larger blocks is what will win.  sidechains will die and take Blockstream with it.
marcus_of_augustus
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June 09, 2015, 03:22:13 AM
 #26129

Quote
"The project has been heralded as a potential solution to bitcoin's perceived scalability issues for its attempt to enable experimentation on bitcoin's code."

This was the reporter's quote. Your willingness to attribute words to mouths as and when it suits your agenda is particularly disturbing for a man sworn to the Hippocratic Oath.

marcus_of_augustus
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June 09, 2015, 03:28:27 AM
 #26130

Quote
in the end, Bitcoin with larger blocks is what will win.  sidechains will die and take Blockstream with it.
   

bitcoin will get larger blocks, just not now, "not tonight dear" ... sidechains are inevitable because they are a logical evolution of the technology (if you study self-similar network properties arising from the emergent behaviours due to self-interested individual elements you will know this), with or without blockstream (i'm picking with at this point in time).

cypherdoc
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June 09, 2015, 03:28:35 AM
 #26131

Quote
"The project has been heralded as a potential solution to bitcoin's perceived scalability issues for its attempt to enable experimentation on bitcoin's code."

This was the reporter's quote. Your willingness to attribute words to mouths as and when it suits your agenda is particularly disturbing for a man sworn to the Hippocratic Oath.

stop with the toxic bullshit marcus.  this has nothing to do with the Hippocratic Oath as much as you'd like to twist it to be.

what's more serious is are you accusing the reporter of being inaccurate?  on what basis?
av123
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June 09, 2015, 03:31:41 AM
 #26132


in the end, Bitcoin with larger blocks is what will win.  sidechains will die and take Blockstream with it.

Why are you so sure?
tvbcof
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June 09, 2015, 03:34:14 AM
 #26133

...
At the end game, TPTB push all their zombies that use Coinbase, Circle, Paypal, Facebook, etc into a pegged side chain which is a centralized ledger with world bank control over the debasement rate. MP's defense plan is destroyed by the pegging.
...

Bitcoin as a backing for sidechains is eminently compatible with Bitcoin as MP's personal wealth playground.

I dunno if MP is a fraction of the Mr. Big that he and his minions proclaim but I suspect there is at least something to the assertion.  Certainly they are active and certainly they are among the most technically competent and economically literate of the ecosystem participants.

Last time I was paying much attention (early 2015 iirc) MP's seemed fairly allergic to the idea of the masses benefiting by Bitcoin and to the extent that they might by using a Bitcoin-backed sidechain and he seemed to have some resistance for that reason.  I wrote it off to his psychological need to broadly advertise himself as the worlds biggest prick.  I suspect that this need will take a second seat to his recognition that sidechains working as advertised give him vastly more power than vanilla Bitcoin alone.  One way or another, Hearn's fork is a genuine threat to him (and humanity) and something worth fighting off with as much energy, cost, and collateral damage as necessary.


marcus_of_augustus
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June 09, 2015, 03:36:45 AM
 #26134

Moar SideChains buzz! ... sounds like some homomorphic encryption ideas (blinded transaction amounts with verifiable crypto proofs) have been implemented in Elements .. wowsers. This is innovation.

https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/blkstrm/video/elements-gmaxwell.mp4

iCEBREAKER
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June 09, 2015, 03:38:56 AM
 #26135

Good job Blockstream Boys!

The World According To Frap.Doc:

-Gold is DOOOMED, because Bitcoin
-Monero is DOOMED, because Bitcoin
-Bitcoin is DOOOMED, because sidechains
-Bitcoin is DOOOMED, because 1MB


in the end, Bitcoin with larger blocks is what will win.  sidechains will die and take Blockstream with it.

According to MPEX, who has veto power in the form of his GavinCoin short, "Bitcoin with larger blocks" is not Bitcoin.

With sidechains now live on testnet, XT ain't gonna happen.  Support for larger blocks among the redditards will taper off as they are distracted by Blockstream's shiny new Thing, especially if the price begins to recover upward momentum.

We will see if your prediction that quasi-permanent 1MB blocks and sidechains will DOOOM BTC turns out to be true, because that's the path we're going down.  Good thing I have silver and XMR hedges in place to compensate for such a scenario.

The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy.  David Chaum 1996
"Monero" : { Private - Auditable - 100% Fungible - Flexible Blocksize - Wild & Free® - Intro - Core GUI - Podcats - Roadmap - Dice - Blackjack - Github - Android }
MoneroForCash.com  |  Buy and sell XMR near you  |  Easymonero.com  |  Bitsquare.io - Decentralized XMR Exchange  |  Buy XMR with fiat
Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect.  Adam Back 2014

Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016
Blocks must necessarily be full for the Bitcoin network to be able to pay for its own security.  davout 2015
Blocksize is an intentionally limited resource, like the 21e6 BTC limit.  Changing it degrades the surrounding economics, creating negative incentives.  Jeff Garzik 2013


The raison d'être of bitcoin is trustlessness. - Eric Lombrozo 2015
It is an Engineering Requirement that Bitcoin be “Above the Law”  Paul Sztorc 2015
Resiliency, not efficiency, is the paramount goal of decentralized, non-state sanctioned currency -Jon Matonis 2015

Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016

Technology tends to move in the direction of making surveillance easier, and the ability of computers to track us doubles every eighteen months. - Phil Zimmerman 2013

The only way to make software secure, reliable, and fast is to make it small. Fight Features. - Andy Tanenbaum 2004
TPTB_need_war
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June 09, 2015, 03:39:05 AM
 #26136

...
At the end game, TPTB push all their zombies that use Coinbase, Circle, Paypal, Facebook, etc into a pegged side chain which is a centralized ledger with world bank control over the debasement rate. MP's defense plan is destroyed by the pegging.
...

Bitcoin as a backing for sidechains is eminently compatible with Bitcoin as MP's personal wealth playground.

So you are implicitly asserting he will agree to lose the decentralized, pseudonymous characteristic of Bitcoin? Because once the masses are on a pegged side chain with mandatory KYC, the miniscule minority Core chain can be 50% attacked to force it to have the KYC attribute (which means it is also effectively centralized).

Come on now, haven't you seen where this has all been headed?

MP may be a disinformation agent too. Anything is possible. His public role is the Hegelian dialectic employed by TPTB.

cypherdoc
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June 09, 2015, 03:45:38 AM
 #26137

Moar SideChains buzz! ... sounds like some homomorphic encryption ideas (blinded transaction amounts with verifiable crypto proofs) have been implemented in Elements .. wowsers. This is innovation.

https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/blkstrm/video/elements-gmaxwell.mp4

should we be concerned?  not that i don't trust you or anything  Tongue

cypherdoc
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June 09, 2015, 03:47:50 AM
 #26138

Good job Blockstream Boys!

The World According To Frap.Doc:

-Gold is DOOOMED, because Bitcoin
-Monero is DOOMED, because Bitcoin
-Bitcoin is DOOOMED, because sidechains
-Bitcoin is DOOOMED, because 1MB


in the end, Bitcoin with larger blocks is what will win.  sidechains will die and take Blockstream with it.

According to MPEX, who has veto power in the form of his GavinCoin short, "Bitcoin with larger blocks" is not Bitcoin.

With sidechains now live on testnet, XT ain't gonna happen.  Support for larger blocks among the redditards will taper off as they are distracted by Blockstream's shiny new Thing, especially if the price begins to recover upward momentum.

We will see if your prediction that quasi-permanent 1MB blocks and sidechains will DOOOM BTC turns out to be true, because that's the path we're going down.  Good thing I have silver and XMR hedges in place to compensate for such a scenario.

there are those of us who can do anything MPEX can do.

maybe more. 
iCEBREAKER
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June 09, 2015, 03:51:02 AM
 #26139

Quote
in the end, Bitcoin with larger blocks is what will win.  sidechains will die and take Blockstream with it.
   

bitcoin will get larger blocks, just not now, "not tonight dear" ... sidechains are inevitable because they are a logical evolution of the technology

Good one MOA.   Cheesy



Adam Back is the real Doctor of Cyphers.  And Nick Szabo has forgotten more about tech, gold, and economics than OP will ever learn.

OP is just a "Faster, please" gadfly opinionating from the code-free comfort of his armchair.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.   Embarrassed

The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy.  David Chaum 1996
"Monero" : { Private - Auditable - 100% Fungible - Flexible Blocksize - Wild & Free® - Intro - Core GUI - Podcats - Roadmap - Dice - Blackjack - Github - Android }
MoneroForCash.com  |  Buy and sell XMR near you  |  Easymonero.com  |  Bitsquare.io - Decentralized XMR Exchange  |  Buy XMR with fiat
Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect.  Adam Back 2014

Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016
Blocks must necessarily be full for the Bitcoin network to be able to pay for its own security.  davout 2015
Blocksize is an intentionally limited resource, like the 21e6 BTC limit.  Changing it degrades the surrounding economics, creating negative incentives.  Jeff Garzik 2013


The raison d'être of bitcoin is trustlessness. - Eric Lombrozo 2015
It is an Engineering Requirement that Bitcoin be “Above the Law”  Paul Sztorc 2015
Resiliency, not efficiency, is the paramount goal of decentralized, non-state sanctioned currency -Jon Matonis 2015

Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016

Technology tends to move in the direction of making surveillance easier, and the ability of computers to track us doubles every eighteen months. - Phil Zimmerman 2013

The only way to make software secure, reliable, and fast is to make it small. Fight Features. - Andy Tanenbaum 2004
TPTB_need_war
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June 09, 2015, 04:02:12 AM
 #26140

Or they buy the pegged side chain version, because unlike other pegged side chains which can't resist 50% attack, such a side chain could survive alongside the cabal NWO side chain. However they may not be inclined to invest in the pegged side chain version of such a coin design, because they lose the upside ROI of such a novel design.

Blockstream is killing altcoin economics, because Bitcoin users will be inclined to prefer the pegged side chain version over the altcoin so they don't have to deal with volatility in their Bitcoin unit-of-account.

However, if there are out-of-band applications of the altcoin which refuse BTC for ideological reasons (knowing that the ultimate outcome of Bitcoin is to move all zombie masses onto a centralized ledger KYC pegged side chain), then those users who want that out-of-band application will not invest in the pegged side chain version and instead will invest in the altcoin.

The point is that users who want anonymity will congregate away from Bitcoin. But Monero can be 50% attacked and it lacks this out-of-band application I have in mind (and couldn't support it without changes to the mining algorithm). If there is a pegged side chain with all of Monero's attributes, then I no longer need to hold XMR and instead will be holding BTC in addition to my coin.

I made an entire thread on this out-of-band application, but readers appear to be oblivious.

Monero folk will tell you we need more anonymity.  ...  that's enough anonymity for the ordinary user not doing anything wrong.

That is not enough anonymity for those with wealth who will be expropriated by the coming global contagion collapse of socialism. And that is key point! You've entirely missed the boat on this one. You are siding with the zombie masses who will vote for expropriation and unwittingly their own collapse.

So at this time it's Bitcoin hat has the most utility, alts aren't a threat, there will be hacks that can leverage that network, there will be investment opportunities and price growth in alts but for now as I see it

Until there is something that Bitcoin can't do and where BTC is not accepted because Bitcoin is a sly, imminent KYC expropriation paradigm. So now you know how such a coin will be marketed. Prepare your counter-arguments.

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