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Question: Will you support Gavin's new block size limit hard fork of 8MB by January 1, 2016 then doubling every 2 years?
1.  yes
2.  no

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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 1981123 times)
TPTB_need_war
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June 08, 2015, 04:54:55 AM
 #25981

If Bitcoin does not compete with Paypal and Visa then it will NEVER compete with gold and central banks.

The reason is that physical presence matters. Gold is physical and has only two serious rival metals: platinum and silver. CB fiat is made physical by government power: legal tender for printed cash and debt-money backed by taxation and guns (although through incompetence, fiat is proving a failed experiment).

Bitcoin also has a physical presence: its ecosystem of users, companies, on-line services and large mining network. Take those away and it becomes just another Worldcoin, Yacoin, Litecoin or Auroracoin.

Bitcoin, the software can be copied many times, and its principles can be adapted in new ways e.g. NXT and Monero.

There is no useful scarcity for a digital currency unless that scarcity is backed by a physical presence, an ecosystem.

Capping the Bitcoin network at 1MB blocks is an assumption that enough of an ecosystem has been established that this particular instance of digital currency cannot be overtaken by a larger ecosystem, a larger physical presence, by one of the alternatives. This is a huge assumption which is not viable because the Bitcoin ecosystem footprint in the world economy is miniscule. Only when volumes approach Visa-scale can people sit back and consider that Bitcoin is seriously competing with gold and central banks. Even then, it can't remain standing still.

Possibly correct but irrelevant because they said it won't start (won't run) on their home computers if you move to VISA scale.

But if it requires centralization to reach mass, then it won't compete with CBs any more as it will be controlled by the State.

Dilemma. Check mate. Failure. Bitcoin is fundamental flawed.

(you guys have very slow logic. I figured this out 100 pages back and you still haven't gotten the point)

you're still wrong.  both as a programmer stuck on "start" and with your economic assessment.

That is not a rebuttal. Make one if you wish.

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TPTB_need_war
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June 08, 2015, 04:56:01 AM
 #25982

i did file a response and declaration.  you should read that too.

Link please?

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June 08, 2015, 05:00:35 AM
 #25983

No, to this day, reading his blog makes me cringe. 

I have to proof read and when I don't then my writing is missing words. Because I think I am writing what I am saying in my head but then on proof read I realize I didn't. I often write for example "everything" instead of "everytime". Armstrong seems to have the same slight mental issue. I think this is caused by having a much faster processing engine than the I/O engine of the brain.

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June 08, 2015, 05:02:29 AM
 #25984

TPTB dev goes down with a whimper and right on time, MOA dev shows up throwing hand grenades.

anyone see the pattern i've already pointed out?  but it's ok, there are plenty of excellent devs with the right vision.

Yes we see clearly the pattern of your delusion and disrespect for the programmers who make this entire technology happen.

I am ROTFLMAO that you think you have won any debate with me.

Btw, I think perhaps MOA was the guy who spanked me on some Bitcoin 101 issue when I first arrived in this forum in 2013. Smiley I've learned much since then.

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June 08, 2015, 05:06:01 AM
 #25985

Hi guise, how's the slow-mo trainwreck going in here? everyone happy? good  Wink

Notice how it went off the rails when you started crappin all over the devs?

Try to keep it in your trousers, remember who's piloting this plane, who's the passengers and stop trying to grab the stick, KK? Ta, tally ho.

TPTB dev goes down with a whimper and right on time, MOA dev shows up throwing hand grenades.

anyone see the pattern i've already pointed out?  but it's ok, there are plenty of excellent devs with the right vision.

What, the "if they're not with me, then they're against me" reality pattern?

it's not "with me".  it's with Gavin.  yes, i trust Gavin way more than the other financially conflicted Blockstream devs.  

i'm not the one who came up with the block size increase idea.  it's a recommendation from the only guy who could have got us here since Satoshi turned over the reins to him.  guys like gmax and luke were causing trouble long before this issue became a debate.

To a simpleton n00b chatterbox who loudly flaunts his disrespect of knowledge, everything is Black & White (caps intended).

Whereas, the reality is more complex. Turns out that both sides of this particular block size argument are going to lose (i.e. centralization is unavoidable by any choice).

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June 08, 2015, 05:11:42 AM
 #25986

every attribute you seem to have, he seems to have.  every attribute he seems to have, you seem to have.

His left eye was losing vision. My right eye is 90% blinded. Whoops.

This is really comical. Are you under stress because of the court case? You are acting strange.

I suggested you get on Skype so you can see me on web cam. But you refused.

pm'd

Next day. I will sleep.

i'm not interested in talking.  one quick glance to verify you're not Armstrong.

I don't have Skype installed at this location. I have to travel to other location.

I believe you are interested in constructing evidence to build some civil suit against me.

lol, see i knew it.  all blow and no go.

I want to talk with you. I want to see you on cam also. I want to try to explain to you why you need to stop your Dunning Kruger presumptions.

But you don't want to talk. You just want to capture my image from the web cam.

i won't capture anything.  i just want to see if you're Armstrong.  you're the one who offered.

An offering to communicate is a two-way street. It is not your right King Cypherdoc to determine that you only want to see me for a few seconds on cam and not talk to me. I want to probe your brain. I want to find out more about your personality. Etc..

You know why we programmers don't make 3000 BTC on defrauding our fellow community? Because we are enjoying too much the challenge of doing. And we see through such simpleton thought processes that you use to lure in naive investors to your trap. Thus we don't have the conscience to do what you do. I suppose your ignorance helps you manage your conscience.

you have no details of the case so don't jump to any conclusions.  but of course, that's not your objective is it?  to be fair.

I read the filing by the plaintiff. I observe your personality here in this forum. I am a very good judge of people. I am a late June Cancer. We see right through everything. And those Cancers on the leading edge of the start of the Cancer dates are also movers and shakers.

only a nutjob would expect to be able to get away with saying things like that.

I've been close to a lot of people in my lifetime because I love deep interpersonal relationships. Thus I have a large enough dataset to pull from to have concluded there is a strong correlation. I also thought astrology was bullshit. But as hard as I tried, I was proven wrong in my experience (now that isn't a double-blind survey but relativity can't be i.e. your experience may be different).

Unlike most people who never get out, I am not an armchair commentator. I have been all over the world in so many nooks and crannies. That is why I have lost my wealth and my eye. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. I'd do it all over again.

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June 08, 2015, 05:14:02 AM
 #25987

TPTB dev goes down with a whimper and right on time, MOA dev shows up throwing hand grenades.

anyone see the pattern i've already pointed out?  but it's ok, there are plenty of excellent devs with the right vision.

Yes we see clearly the pattern of your delusion and disrespect for the programmers who make this entire technology happen.

I am ROTFLMAO that you think you have won any debate with me.

Btw, I think perhaps MOA was the guy who spanked me on some Bitcoin 101 issue when I first arrived in this forum in 2013. Smiley I've learned much since then.

the devs i respect are the one's who understand the implications of the position they assume such as core dev for a revolutionary new form of money that has a chance to become a reserve currency and a public good.  i respect those devs who then choose to be paid or funded by a foundation or a research center where they can't be accused of having a financial conflict except by the most extremists who will never be satisfied with anything and see evil everywhere they look.
TPTB_need_war
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June 08, 2015, 05:15:46 AM
 #25988

the devs i respect are the one's who understand the implications of the position they assume such as core dev for a revolutionary new form of money that has a chance to become a reserve currency and a public good.  i respect those devs who then choose to be paid or funded by a foundation or a research center where they can't be accused of having a financial conflict except by the most extremists who will never be satisfied with anything and see evil everywhere they look.

Good that you unequivocally admit you want the NWO coin. (it may fly over your head as to why the bolded portion implies my conclusion)

So now we know where you stand.

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June 08, 2015, 05:21:47 AM
 #25989

blah, blah, blah from the Monero pumper.  btw, i see you cleaned up your sig to hide that fact  Wink

Did you see the point of the sig? If one were to follow,

"I could not agree more that developers should not be in charge of the
network rules.
Which is why - in my opinion - hard forks cannot be controversial things. A
controversial change to the software, forced to be adopted by the public
because the only alternative is a permanent chain fork, is a use of power
that developers (or anyone) should not have, and an incredibly dangerous
precedent for other changes that only a subset of participants would want."

one might find that,

"A decentralized payment system must not depend on a single person's decisions, even if this person is a core developer. Hard constants and magic numbers in the code deter the system's evolution and therefore should be eliminated (or at least be cut down to the minimum). Every crucial limit (like max block size or min fee amount) should be re-calculated based on the system's previous state. Therefore, it always changes adaptively and independently, allowing the network to develop on it's own.
CryptoNote has the following parameters which adjust automatically for each new block:
1) Difficulty. The general idea of our algorithm is to sum all the work that nodes have performed during the last 720 blocks and divide it by the time they have spent to accomplish it. The measure of the work is the corresponding difficulty value for each of the blocks. The time is calculated as follows: sort all the 720 timestamps and cut-off 20% of the outliers. The range of the rest 600 values is the time which was spent for 80% of the corresponding blocks.
2) Max block size. Let MN be the median value of the last N blocks sizes. Then the "hard-limit" for the size of accepting blocks is 2*MN. It averts blockchain bloating but still allows the limit to slowly grow with the time if necessary. Transaction size does not need to be limited explicitly. It is bounded by the size of the block."

Appears Monero attempts the best that can be done within the PoW paradigm that Satoshi provided.

To truly reach for decentralization on auto-pilot is going to require a new fundamental design.

You've argued in the clearest way that political mind controllers should get the fuck off our lawn!

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June 08, 2015, 05:25:20 AM
 #25990

having invested before them must mean something.

Many possible meanings, not all (mostly none of) which you assume.

For example, some were too busy actually accomplishing work on other projects and weren't yet focused on Bitcoin.

Your extrapolations of your value to the Bitcoincrypto-coin ecosystem are afaics beyond nonsense and loitering in dangerous proximity of the slobbering lunatic realm.

Go try to find the above writing style on Armstrong's blog. You will not.

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June 08, 2015, 05:29:40 AM
 #25991

what's your skype address?

That should be you first. Any way never mind. I don't have a debt to you.

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June 08, 2015, 05:32:41 AM
 #25992


"A decentralized payment system must not depend on a single person's companies decisions from financial conflicts, even especially if this person company is a composes 2 core developers and 3 commiters. Hard constants and magic numbers in the code deter the system's evolution and therefore should be eliminated (or at least be cut down to the minimum). Every crucial limit (like max block size or min fee amount) should be re-calculated based on the system's previous state. Therefore, it always changes adaptively and independently, allowing the network to develop on it's own.
CryptoNote has the following parameters which adjust automatically for each new block:
1) Difficulty. The general idea of our algorithm is to sum all the work that nodes have performed during the last 720 blocks and divide it by the time they have spent to accomplish it. The measure of the work is the corresponding difficulty value for each of the blocks. The time is calculated as follows: sort all the 720 timestamps and cut-off 20% of the outliers. The range of the rest 600 values is the time which was spent for 80% of the corresponding blocks.
2) Max block size. Let MN be the median value of the last N blocks sizes. Then the "hard-limit" for the size of accepting blocks is 2*MN. It averts blockchain bloating but still allows the limit to slowly grow with the time if necessary. Transaction size does not need to be limited explicitly. It is bounded by the size of the block."

ftfy

Indeed Bitcoin is broken no matter what choice is made on block size. That is the point. It ain't Black & White.

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June 08, 2015, 05:45:44 AM
 #25993

MP et all can force their will only until Blockstream's pegged side chains arrive. Then afaics his GavinCoin short is rendered impotent since GavinCoin can be forked as a pegged side chain. What say he this?

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-12-2014#951164

Quote
09:10:20mircea_popescu:fluffypony all future coin, of any type, and more generally all future human industry of all types is indelibly linked to bitcoin
09:10:26assbot:[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18250 @ 0.00067111 = 12.2478 BTC
  • {2}
09:10:36mircea_popescu:this is a fact and it's not going away except in fiction.

So we see he isn't that omniscient after all.

Who is going to relay the above epiphany that is going to ruin his day, year, and reputation?

Can someone remind me his forum username? I will PM him a link to this post.

It is going to be fun when he eats those bolded words.

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June 08, 2015, 05:59:29 AM
 #25994

Game over, Frap.doc.


FYI, Nick Szabo retweeted (and added to his favorites):
https://twitter.com/oleganza/status/605117508971053057
"@oleganza: If Bitcoin was ever competing with Paypal or Visa, it would not even start. It competes with gold and central banks."


Thus Saith The LORD.  Amen!

of course not.  as long as you continue to constrain it to 1MB.

Cypherdoc is correct.

Nick Szabo and Oleg Andreev are both wrong.

[further deranged babbling]


The point Szabo retweeted (and favorited) is that it's not possible for Bitcoin's volumes to approach Visa-scale just by using gigantic blocks.

We simply can't get there from here.  Simply super-sizing blocks is not true scaling.  We need side/tree/Lightening/alt chains to even plan the start of the long journey towards coming close to approaching in theory the subject of scaling to Visa+Paypal+gold+TBTF zombie bank levels.

Diverse/diffuse/defensible/resilient blockchains are not a substitute for specialized/proprietary/centralized/optimized real-time Visa-type retail POS systems or consumer friendly Paypal-style payment systems.

In short, it "won't run" (decentralized) at Visa scale with large blocks. I was correct in my terse rewording.

Good to see the word I bolded appear in your post. So I assume you've gotten my latest point about the evils of lockin with pegged side chains.

But you've still got to accede to my point that since pegged side chains are a centralization end game (per the logic I laid out upthread), then interoperability amongst innumerable alts is not a substitute for a single design that actually scales.

There are no ways to avoid what is coming at you. My train is unstoppable now, even I am not the one who implements it.

no, no, we learned from the great programmer, TPTB, that he means the program will not run  Cheesy

You have an extraordinary Dunning Kruger talent for fooling yourself into believing that two statements are not logically equivalent.

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June 08, 2015, 06:01:57 AM
 #25995

He is author of  CoinJoin.

Mentioning that technological train wreck doesn't help make your case. At least for those us who are not n00bs or junior programmers.

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June 08, 2015, 06:08:34 AM
 #25996

The Genesis Block mentions bailouts for TBTF banks.  It does not mention Visa or Paypal.

"banks" were used as a broad term to encompass Visa/Paypal

Dunning Kruger simpleton (to a hammer everything is a nail) extrapolation on 'roids again.

More likely he just hadn't figured out how to scale it yet. And left it as an open problem for a new altcoin, because he said before he left that the fundamental Bitcoin design was frozen forever.

As I hope, one of the programmers working for the DEEP STATE to implement Bitcoin planted it as a Trojan horse on itself.

And now I am about to avail of it. I am communicating with Satoshi (in a metaphoric way).

it is a revolution.  but it needs to be widely adopted.

Grasshopper the cell phone was a revolution too but it didn't require any preachers in forums to make it happen. Note the distinction between technological disruption and bullshit political delusion.

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June 08, 2015, 06:19:24 AM
 #25997


I also thought astrology was bullshit. But as hard as I tried, I was proven wrong in my experience (now that isn't a double-blind survey but relativity can't be i.e. your experience may be different).


I'm not surprised at all. People who are drawn to conspiracy theories tend to be suspicious about everything except the most obvious frauds.

http://elbitcoin.org - Bitcoin en español
http://mercadobitcoin.com - MercadoBitcoin
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June 08, 2015, 06:25:35 AM
 #25998


I also thought astrology was bullshit. But as hard as I tried, I was proven wrong in my experience (now that isn't a double-blind survey but relativity can't be i.e. your experience may be different).


I'm not surprised at all. People who are drawn to conspiracy theories tend to be suspicious about everything except the most obvious frauds.

You assume I made any global assumption (don't conflate what you read with what wasn't written but in your desired bias). All I stated is that in my experience I have noticed that early period Cancers have a tendency to be more proactive (rebellious) than those later. Ditto my observation about all Cancers being so incredibly attuned to details and ramifications about the background of intentions.

I have tried (even again recently) to find a case where it isn't true (even I subjected myself to complete loss making the assumption that my prior experience won't repeat). Try as I might, I always fail to. Until I find a case that disproves the theory, then I have to assume that in my experience it is true (that is not a statement of truth globally). How many times I have written that I am not omniscient.

You appear to be leaning towards a simpletoncompartmentalized/presumptuous thinker (so far).

Afaics, your conceptualization of chaos is so myopic, but we need to dig in to that to ascertain for sure where we both stand. Due to relativity, we must triangulate to get some synergy on understanding each other.

You do realize that every double-blind survey is subject to being entirely false due to the laws about entropy. The veracity it provides is only relative.

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June 08, 2015, 06:35:42 AM
 #25999


I also thought astrology was bullshit. But as hard as I tried, I was proven wrong in my experience (now that isn't a double-blind survey but relativity can't be i.e. your experience may be different).


I'm not surprised at all. People who are drawn to conspiracy theories tend to be suspicious about everything except the most obvious frauds.

You assume I made any global assumption. All I stated is that in my experience I have noticed that early period Cancers have a tendency to be more extrovert than those later. Ditto my observation about Cancers being so incredibly attuned to details about intentions.

I have tried (even again recently) to find a case where it isn't true. Try as I might, I always fail to. Until I find a case that disproves the theory, then I have to assume that in my experience it is true.

You are a simpleton thinker (so far).

Your conceptualization of chaos is so myopic.

I hope that people reading this thread do not skip this comment, so they can save time by skipping everything else you've written and everything else you will write from now on.

http://elbitcoin.org - Bitcoin en español
http://mercadobitcoin.com - MercadoBitcoin
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June 08, 2015, 06:45:54 AM
 #26000

I hope that people reading this thread do not skip this comment, so they can save time by skipping everything else you've written and everything else you will write from now on.

That assumption does not follow from any other theoretical point you had in mind. With that proclamation your are conflicting with your stated conceptualization of chaos theory.

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