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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 2022643 times)
macsga
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June 08, 2015, 08:05:18 PM
 #26081

kazuki, & the other Monero and 1MB pimps.

I think this makes us about even: you were a few months before me in shifting from silver to BTC, and I was a little bit before you in the transition from BTC to Monero.

except i'm not making any transition to Monero.  oh well...

Is there any reasoning backing up your decision? I'd love to start such a discussion if you don't mind. Smiley

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June 08, 2015, 08:07:43 PM
 #26082

i find 21's two yr experience in mining very encouraging/exciting in anticipation of their ability to roll out relevant IOT asic chips, esp for smartphones.  that should drive things like batshit:

http://i.imgur.com/keXaz8c.png

Where are those images coming from? I saw it posted on reddit, but what's the actual source?

their ip address.  i think.

I don't understand... how can an image come from an ip address?
cypherdoc
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June 08, 2015, 08:09:12 PM
 #26083

i find 21's two yr experience in mining very encouraging/exciting in anticipation of their ability to roll out relevant IOT asic chips, esp for smartphones.  that should drive things like batshit:

http://i.imgur.com/keXaz8c.png

Where are those images coming from? I saw it posted on reddit, but what's the actual source?

their ip address.  i think.

I don't understand... how can an image come from an ip address?

hold on.  i'm trying to find the source of 45.55.165.166
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June 08, 2015, 08:12:41 PM
 #26084

i find 21's two yr experience in mining very encouraging/exciting in anticipation of their ability to roll out relevant IOT asic chips, esp for smartphones.  that should drive things like batshit:

http://i.imgur.com/keXaz8c.png

Where are those images coming from? I saw it posted on reddit, but what's the actual source?

their ip address.  i think.

I don't understand... how can an image come from an ip address?

yeah, not sure where it came from.  am going to ask the OP.
chriswilmer
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June 08, 2015, 08:21:33 PM
 #26085

i find 21's two yr experience in mining very encouraging/exciting in anticipation of their ability to roll out relevant IOT asic chips, esp for smartphones.  that should drive things like batshit:

http://i.imgur.com/keXaz8c.png

Where are those images coming from? I saw it posted on reddit, but what's the actual source?

their ip address.  i think.

I don't understand... how can an image come from an ip address?

yeah, not sure where it came from.  am going to ask the OP.

Thanks!
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June 08, 2015, 08:25:22 PM
 #26086

kazuki, & the other Monero and 1MB pimps.

I think this makes us about even: you were a few months before me in shifting from silver to BTC, and I was a little bit before you in the transition from BTC to Monero.

except i'm not making any transition to Monero.  oh well...

Is there any reasoning backing up your decision? I'd love to start such a discussion if you don't mind. Smiley

well, buried throughout all TPTB_need_war's bullshit is quite a bit of back and forth regarding Monero.  my problem with it is pretty much as rocks outlined.  it's an entirely new protocol.  that by itself is not necessarily the  problem but it is for network effects and confidence for a new form of money, imo.  for instance, Bitcoin is open source and supposed to be adaptable to changing conditions, especially those hostile, so we've been told.  if it fails to adapt to a threat like the 1MB choking of tx's then it cannot adapt and grow and will fail as a new form of money, imo.  that's b/c it is unacceptable for the current network of investors who have stored their coins in cold storage to be expected to dig them out and transfer them to a totally new money on a different protocol like Monero.  that would cause huge losses for us while huge gains for the early Monero adopters. great for them, horrible for us.  in that scenario, i consider cryptocurrencies to be a failure as i would conclude that they are all then a form of Ponzi scheme.  that doesn't mean it won't happen though but is the reason for the extreme resistance to it's adoption from the economic majority who are currently invested in Bitcoin.

and also for the constant pimping of Monero you see here in this thread.
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June 08, 2015, 08:32:36 PM
 #26087

i find 21's two yr experience in mining very encouraging/exciting in anticipation of their ability to roll out relevant IOT asic chips, esp for smartphones.  that should drive things like batshit:

http://i.imgur.com/keXaz8c.png

wow, thanks for the link
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June 08, 2015, 08:33:34 PM
 #26088

well, buried throughout all TPTB_need_war's bullshit is quite a bit of back and forth regarding Monero.  my problem with it is pretty much as rocks outlined.  it's an entirely new protocol.  that by itself is not necessarily the  problem but it is for network effects and confidence for a new form of money, imo.  for instance, Bitcoin is open source and supposed to be adaptable to changing conditions, especially those hostile, so we've been told.  if it fails to adapt to a threat like the 1MB choking of tx's then it cannot adapt and grow and will fail as a new form of money, imo.  that's b/c it is unacceptable for the current network of investors who have stored their coins in cold storage to be expected to dig them out and transfer them to a totally new money on a different protocol like Monero.  that would cause huge losses for us while huge gains for the early Monero adopters. great for them, horrible for us.  in that scenario, i consider cryptocurrencies to be a failure as i would conclude that they are all then a form of Ponzi scheme.  that doesn't mean it won't happen though but is the reason for the extreme resistance to it's adoption from the economic majority who are currently invested in Bitcoin.

and also for the constant pimping of Monero you see here in this thread.

I understand; nevertheless, don't you think there will be another usable cryptocurrency apart from BTC? I don't support XMR will be it (even though I already have a position that certifies my curiosity and will hopefully gratify my early confidence), but I really want to know, BTC is all you have afaic crypto?

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June 08, 2015, 08:57:16 PM
 #26089

well, buried throughout all TPTB_need_war's bullshit is quite a bit of back and forth regarding Monero.  my problem with it is pretty much as rocks outlined.  it's an entirely new protocol.  that by itself is not necessarily the  problem but it is for network effects and confidence for a new form of money, imo.  for instance, Bitcoin is open source and supposed to be adaptable to changing conditions, especially those hostile, so we've been told.  if it fails to adapt to a threat like the 1MB choking of tx's then it cannot adapt and grow and will fail as a new form of money, imo.  that's b/c it is unacceptable for the current network of investors who have stored their coins in cold storage to be expected to dig them out and transfer them to a totally new money on a different protocol like Monero.  that would cause huge losses for us while huge gains for the early Monero adopters. great for them, horrible for us.  in that scenario, i consider cryptocurrencies to be a failure as i would conclude that they are all then a form of Ponzi scheme.  that doesn't mean it won't happen though but is the reason for the extreme resistance to it's adoption from the economic majority who are currently invested in Bitcoin.

and also for the constant pimping of Monero you see here in this thread.

I understand; nevertheless, don't you think there will be another usable cryptocurrency apart from BTC? I don't support XMR will be it (even though I already have a position that certifies my curiosity and will hopefully gratify my early confidence), but I really want to know, BTC is all you have afaic crypto?

there's this whole concept of a network effect which is no stronger than in that of money.  money, after all, is supposed to be the most liquid of all "assets", a bearer instrument, as some like to call it.  no counterparty required, all debts settled in it.

for thousands of years there really was just one worldwide money; gold.  maybe silver to a degree.  then came fiat, but only since 1971 purely.  the USD has been the reserve currency since Bretton Woods in 1948 but we fully depegged from gold in 1971.  the USD has been used as a settlement currency and for reserve worldwide ever since.  the problem with that is that the central banks have taken advantage of this situation to allow massive debt bubbles to arise by facilitating bailouts for corrupt banks who have gone out and leveraged up well beyond what has historically been considered safe at 10:1.  

so enter Bitcoin.  b/c it was derived from the internet, by the internet, and for the internet, it will become a global money, as it already seems to have occurred.  that is a good thing and will bring significant efficiencies and opportunities for all those who have access to the internet and smartphones.  there is no reason why Bitcoin cannot continue to fulfill those goals or ideals.  

Monero folk will tell you we need more anonymity.  sure, i'd like more but i think Bitcoin gives enough.  unless one can attach a human identity to each address in a linear sequence you can never be sure you can tie the ends to each other of say a 5 address sequence.   you might infer it but you'd have to do some investigative work which police can do if suspicious.  that's enough anonymity for the ordinary user not doing anything wrong.

in short, Bitcoin should be able to provide everything for everyone.  that's my opinion at least.
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June 08, 2015, 09:01:51 PM
 #26090

well, buried throughout all TPTB_need_war's bullshit is quite a bit of back and forth regarding Monero.  my problem with it is pretty much as rocks outlined.  it's an entirely new protocol.  that by itself is not necessarily the  problem but it is for network effects and confidence for a new form of money, imo.  for instance, Bitcoin is open source and supposed to be adaptable to changing conditions, especially those hostile, so we've been told.  if it fails to adapt to a threat like the 1MB choking of tx's then it cannot adapt and grow and will fail as a new form of money, imo.  that's b/c it is unacceptable for the current network of investors who have stored their coins in cold storage to be expected to dig them out and transfer them to a totally new money on a different protocol like Monero.  that would cause huge losses for us while huge gains for the early Monero adopters. great for them, horrible for us.  in that scenario, i consider cryptocurrencies to be a failure as i would conclude that they are all then a form of Ponzi scheme.  that doesn't mean it won't happen though but is the reason for the extreme resistance to it's adoption from the economic majority who are currently invested in Bitcoin.

and also for the constant pimping of Monero you see here in this thread.

I understand; nevertheless, don't you think there will be another usable cryptocurrency apart from BTC? I don't support XMR will be it (even though I already have a position that certifies my curiosity and will hopefully gratify my early confidence), but I really want to know, BTC is all you have afaic crypto?
The more competition the better, I did mine some XMR early so all this monero pumping just makes me feel good. In my book, the winner is the one with the most utility the biggest boost to utility is the number of end points in the network. The network that will grow the fastest will be the one with the most utility.

So at this time it's Bitcoin hat has the most utility, alts aren't a threat, there will be hacks that can leverage that network, there will be investment opportunities and price growth in alts but for now as I see it, it's Bitcoin, I've diversified my crypto investment but for the most part I've just helped distributed bitcoin to the late stage innovators at my experience - on the upside its growing the Bitcoin network.

Thank me in Bits 12MwnzxtprG2mHm3rKdgi7NmJKCypsMMQw
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June 08, 2015, 09:18:11 PM
 #26091

Monero folk will tell you we need more anonymity.  sure, i'd like more but i think Bitcoin gives enough.  unless one can attach a human identity to each address in a linear sequence you can never be sure you can tie the ends to each other of say a 5 address sequence.   you might infer it but you'd have to do some investigative work which police can do if suspicious.  that's enough anonymity for the ordinary user not doing anything wrong.

in short, Bitcoin should be able to provide everything for everyone.  that's my opinion at least.

that doesn't mean it won't happen though but is the reason for the extreme resistance to it's adoption from the economic majority who are currently invested in Bitcoin.

There you go. A rational individual (investor) with this set of beliefs would hedge. If you don't, there is something other than a rational decision making process going on. No refutation of this is possible. For the logic of hedging to be incorrect you would have to be 100% sure that Bitcoin is the Eternal One True and Only Coin, which you apparently are not (see above). If you had that unquestioning faith, fair enough, but since you don't, then not hedging is just a mistake.

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June 08, 2015, 09:18:18 PM
 #26092

https://epicenterbitcoin.com/podcast/082/
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June 08, 2015, 09:22:09 PM
 #26093

Monero folk will tell you we need more anonymity.  sure, i'd like more but i think Bitcoin gives enough.  unless one can attach a human identity to each address in a linear sequence you can never be sure you can tie the ends to each other of say a 5 address sequence.   you might infer it but you'd have to do some investigative work which police can do if suspicious.  that's enough anonymity for the ordinary user not doing anything wrong.

in short, Bitcoin should be able to provide everything for everyone.  that's my opinion at least.

that doesn't mean it won't happen though but is the reason for the extreme resistance to it's adoption from the economic majority who are currently invested in Bitcoin.

There you go. A rational individual (investor) with this set of beliefs would hedge. If you don't, there is something other than a rational decision making process going on. No refutation of this is possible. For the logic of hedging to be incorrect you would have to be 100% sure that Bitcoin is the Eternal One True and Only Coin, which you apparently are not (see above). If you had that unquestioning faith, fair enough, but since you don't, then not hedging is just a mistake.



to your mind.  that's your rationality.

i think it is such a remote possibility that i'd rather take the risk of not hedging and instead riding Bitcoin to new heights.  Monero is not even worth me studying at this point. and it's on par with other altcoins that i find equally as improbable therefore i have concluded that i will be willing to pay a premium in the far future if it seems to be gaining traction; which i don't.
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June 08, 2015, 09:27:27 PM
 #26094

Monero folk will tell you we need more anonymity.  sure, i'd like more but i think Bitcoin gives enough.  unless one can attach a human identity to each address in a linear sequence you can never be sure you can tie the ends to each other of say a 5 address sequence.   you might infer it but you'd have to do some investigative work which police can do if suspicious.  that's enough anonymity for the ordinary user not doing anything wrong.

in short, Bitcoin should be able to provide everything for everyone.  that's my opinion at least.

that doesn't mean it won't happen though but is the reason for the extreme resistance to it's adoption from the economic majority who are currently invested in Bitcoin.

There you go. A rational individual (investor) with this set of beliefs would hedge. If you don't, there is something other than a rational decision making process going on. No refutation of this is possible. For the logic of hedging to be incorrect you would have to be 100% sure that Bitcoin is the Eternal One True and Only Coin, which you apparently are not (see above). If you had that unquestioning faith, fair enough, but since you don't, then not hedging is just a mistake.



to your mind.  that's your rationality.

i think it is such a remote possibility that i'd rather take the risk of not hedging and instead riding Bitcoin to new heights.  Monero is not even worth me studying at this point. and it's on par with other altcoins that i find equally as improbable therefore i have concluded that i will be willing to pay a premium in the far future if it seems to be gaining traction; which i don't.

You're giving away your credibility.

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cypherdoc
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June 08, 2015, 09:31:30 PM
 #26095

Monero folk will tell you we need more anonymity.  sure, i'd like more but i think Bitcoin gives enough.  unless one can attach a human identity to each address in a linear sequence you can never be sure you can tie the ends to each other of say a 5 address sequence.   you might infer it but you'd have to do some investigative work which police can do if suspicious.  that's enough anonymity for the ordinary user not doing anything wrong.

in short, Bitcoin should be able to provide everything for everyone.  that's my opinion at least.

that doesn't mean it won't happen though but is the reason for the extreme resistance to it's adoption from the economic majority who are currently invested in Bitcoin.

There you go. A rational individual (investor) with this set of beliefs would hedge. If you don't, there is something other than a rational decision making process going on. No refutation of this is possible. For the logic of hedging to be incorrect you would have to be 100% sure that Bitcoin is the Eternal One True and Only Coin, which you apparently are not (see above). If you had that unquestioning faith, fair enough, but since you don't, then not hedging is just a mistake.



to your mind.  that's your rationality.

i think it is such a remote possibility that i'd rather take the risk of not hedging and instead riding Bitcoin to new heights.  Monero is not even worth me studying at this point. and it's on par with other altcoins that i find equally as improbable therefore i have concluded that i will be willing to pay a premium in the far future if it seems to be gaining traction; which i don't.

You're giving away your credibility.

i don't accept criticism from liars, esp ones who doxx me with intent to incite physical harm.
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June 08, 2015, 09:35:17 PM
 #26096

btw folks, i know exactly who vokain is and his full identity, where he went to school, how much of a monetary claim he has against HF but i have chosen not to reveal his identity out of respect for his privacy.   at least for now.  we are essentially on opposite sides of a lawsuit.
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June 08, 2015, 09:39:26 PM
 #26097

btw folks, i know exactly who vokain is and his full identity, where he went to school, how much of a monetary claim he has against HF but i have chosen not to reveal his identity out of respect for his privacy.   at least for now.  we are essentially on opposite sides of a lawsuit.

Yes, if anyone is interested they should instead use the linkedin link on his forum profile.

WTF???
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June 08, 2015, 09:40:50 PM
 #26098

Monero folk will tell you we need more anonymity.  sure, i'd like more but i think Bitcoin gives enough.  unless one can attach a human identity to each address in a linear sequence you can never be sure you can tie the ends to each other of say a 5 address sequence.   you might infer it but you'd have to do some investigative work which police can do if suspicious.  that's enough anonymity for the ordinary user not doing anything wrong.

in short, Bitcoin should be able to provide everything for everyone.  that's my opinion at least.

that doesn't mean it won't happen though but is the reason for the extreme resistance to it's adoption from the economic majority who are currently invested in Bitcoin.

There you go. A rational individual (investor) with this set of beliefs would hedge. If you don't, there is something other than a rational decision making process going on. No refutation of this is possible. For the logic of hedging to be incorrect you would have to be 100% sure that Bitcoin is the Eternal One True and Only Coin, which you apparently are not (see above). If you had that unquestioning faith, fair enough, but since you don't, then not hedging is just a mistake.



to your mind.  that's your rationality.

i think it is such a remote possibility that i'd rather take the risk of not hedging and instead riding Bitcoin to new heights.  Monero is not even worth me studying at this point. and it's on par with other altcoins that i find equally as improbable therefore i have concluded that i will be willing to pay a premium in the far future if it seems to be gaining traction; which i don't.

You're giving away your credibility.

i don't accept criticism from liars, esp ones who doxx me with intent to incite physical harm.

Why would I want harm upon anyone? Of what harm would you fear, and why?

"A monk in the jungle need not fear."

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macsga
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Strange, yet attractive.


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June 08, 2015, 09:47:07 PM
 #26099

@Vocain: I don't agree that's it's a matter of credibility, rather than economic sketching of a pro-cumference that tends to outline the diversity needed for someone to "feel safe". IMHO, XMR/LTC/whatever should be on the list of any crypto-user among us (not necessarily containing all of them, but trying to incorporate some sort of pluralism). OTOH, this could be as well achieved by adding PM in your portfolio. But that's not our subject.

@Cypherdoc: Again, this conversation has no intention to alter any given opinion or thesis you have concerning alt-coins (or a specific one, in particular). I'm just trying to understand how one could support BTC as a viable solution, (or a panacea, if you prefer) without supporting another alternative that incorporates (for instance) some superior tech. FWIW, I agree that anonymity can be achieved -under certain circumstances- with BTC but, let me add, this is possible also by using almost any means of transaction. If one wants to be anonymous, he will do what's necessary to achieve so.

Last but not least, I personally have been messing with a couple of alts. My gnomon to mine and/or buy a stash of them was/is the same all these years. They must contain something the other alts (or even BTC) don't already have. A different algorithm, a unique characteristic, a devoted community instead of a fighting one... I hope you get my point. Wink

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June 08, 2015, 09:51:40 PM
 #26100

Monero folk will tell you we need more anonymity.  sure, i'd like more but i think Bitcoin gives enough.  unless one can attach a human identity to each address in a linear sequence you can never be sure you can tie the ends to each other of say a 5 address sequence.   you might infer it but you'd have to do some investigative work which police can do if suspicious.  that's enough anonymity for the ordinary user not doing anything wrong.

in short, Bitcoin should be able to provide everything for everyone.  that's my opinion at least.

that doesn't mean it won't happen though but is the reason for the extreme resistance to it's adoption from the economic majority who are currently invested in Bitcoin.

There you go. A rational individual (investor) with this set of beliefs would hedge. If you don't, there is something other than a rational decision making process going on. No refutation of this is possible. For the logic of hedging to be incorrect you would have to be 100% sure that Bitcoin is the Eternal One True and Only Coin, which you apparently are not (see above). If you had that unquestioning faith, fair enough, but since you don't, then not hedging is just a mistake.



to your mind.  that's your rationality.

i think it is such a remote possibility that i'd rather take the risk of not hedging and instead riding Bitcoin to new heights.  Monero is not even worth me studying at this point. and it's on par with other altcoins that i find equally as improbable therefore i have concluded that i will be willing to pay a premium in the far future if it seems to be gaining traction; which i don't.

You're giving away your credibility.

i don't accept criticism from liars, esp ones who doxx me with intent to incite physical harm.

Why would I want harm upon anyone? Of what harm would you fear, and why?

"A monk in the jungle need not fear."

denial is great, huh?  especially for someone who waxes philosophical and moral.  did you choose to ignore the comment TPTB_need_war made to me immediately after you doxxed me yesterday?  about coming up to my town and starting a physical fight?  

btw, i clicked on the LinkedIn profile smooth put up and WTF is this?  i thought you said this yesterday?:

Obviously, I'm not allowed to talk about the case. vokain shamelessly knows this so he can freely go off.

Actually I didn't until you said you were, but it's besides the point. I've removed myself from the case as far as I could for the most part, and it no longer matters to me. Thank you for the blessing.

but yet you advertise this is in your LinkedIn profile?  WTF:

Creditors' Committee Member
United States Bankruptcy Court
June 2014 – Present (1 year 1 month)San Francisco Bay Area
Representing the body of unsecured creditors that HashFast Technologies, LLC. owes in neglected contracts and witnessing Karma firsthand...
http://hashfast.org/

not to mention the multi 6 figure claim of yours.
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