...
Always pleasure to have another AM devotee in our little thread. I must say, compare to his horde of zealots, FC in person is a great guy. Usually, I would have asked abour dividends, but since AM gen4 is around the corner, it saves me the trouble. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MirageBeside, Athens is great and I have good mood. Guy What was the point of that little rant of yours? It is a fact that you can buy 3 AM Tubes + PSUs for less than you can buy an SP20 + PSU for. That's why you didn't even bother trying to deny it. You just rant about AM zealots coming here which is even funnier considering that you were actually trolling the AM thread yourself, have spouted lots of misleading nonsense over there and an actual zealot - RoadStress is still there making up crap and pretending its facts. Talk about hypocrisy. Instead of trying to create diversions, why not respond to the actual issue - the price of SP20 being far to high. If you don't like that fact, you actually have the ability to do something about it. Spon-Tech is in sales mode. Trying to sell, sell, sell. Now that bitcoin is in the $300's and still dropping the prices even look higher. Plain and simple, there's no chance retail prices will ever get your mulaa back. Just buy some bitcoin if you believe it will come back up. What will take you a few minutes in buying some bitcoins will take you over year in mining the same amount. Why torture yourself? |
|
|
|
The SP20 at the current price will not break even. Even if you adjust the diff down to 10%, it will take you 320 days to make $27. And that's just with today's rate. Don't forget that $200-$300 shipping price tag also on top. $1400.
If the price was even $800 you'd only max profit around $430. Wow, almost one bitcoin!
People, get OUT of the pre-order gamble.
Nothing is really priced anymore for the bitcoin starter, only the guy who already has hashing power and wants to add some more to what he has.
The SP20 weighs less than the SP3X and we were able to negotiate better shipping prices. Shipping price the SP20 depends on the destination but is not $200 and certainly not $300. I don't think this is the thread to discuss ROI but if you insist on doing that at least get the numbers right. Gadi I didn't see shipping costs in the monster thread you guys posted or a shipping calculator on your website. If you don't like incorrect numbers on the thread, then just post them. Could of posted average shipping costs in the large advertisement thread you guys just did. At least an average? Also, ROI is the central core and most talked about subject on any new hardware. That subject is what drives sales or not. If you don't want ROI related content in the thread related to this thread's company's product's which this thread is about then they must be bad. I thought that would be a selling point for a mining rig. ROI is subject to many factors. The calculators can't predict future value of BTC or what that would do to difficulty. Also what do you base your ROI on BTC or fiat? If BTC takes a dive to $10 then difficulty would go down as farms shut down due to overhead costs. You will make back your BTC but lose fiat. Same if BTC goes to $5000. You will get your fiat ROI but possibly not your BTC. Making predictions based on current BTC value and percentage increases in difficulty is a fallacy. I'll just say it will not return your investment and that's it. Who wants to talk about ROI and stuff like that in here? Hmmm, how is the weather these days? |
|
|
|
Dude, it's an auction. Prices start off low then sky rocket at the end. |
|
|
|
any way to get refunds from Titans or not really? ;x
You pre-ordered something months in advance and now asking for money back because things looking bad? I feel for you, but some people just have to learn and get fucked up the ass to finally learn a lesson. NEVER PRE-ORDER ANYTHING. You are essentially giving a company an interest free loan to do what they want with it. Titan, Neptune. Pooey. When I saw the Neptune model that is was 4 or 5 separate boxes that was a sure sign of big problems right there. Users have a hard enough time troubleshooting one box let alone 5. Power supplies all over, cables infecting the home. Help, these boxes are taking over my place like gremlins. Sorry, very bad mood lately. |
|
|
|
The SP20 at the current price will not break even. Even if you adjust the diff down to 10%, it will take you 320 days to make $27. And that's just with today's rate. Don't forget that $200-$300 shipping price tag also on top. $1400.
If the price was even $800 you'd only max profit around $430. Wow, almost one bitcoin!
People, get OUT of the pre-order gamble.
Nothing is really priced anymore for the bitcoin starter, only the guy who already has hashing power and wants to add some more to what he has.
The SP20 weighs less than the SP3X and we were able to negotiate better shipping prices. Shipping price the SP20 depends on the destination but is not $200 and certainly not $300. I don't think this is the thread to discuss ROI but if you insist on doing that at least get the numbers right. Gadi I didn't see shipping costs in the monster thread you guys posted or a shipping calculator on your website. If you don't like incorrect numbers on the thread, then just post them. Could of posted average shipping costs in the large advertisement thread you guys just did. At least an average? Also, ROI is the central core and most talked about subject on any new hardware. That subject is what drives sales or not. If you don't want ROI related content in the thread related to this thread's company's product's which this thread is about then they must be bad. I thought that would be a selling point for a mining rig. |
|
|
|
Nothing is really priced anymore for the bitcoin starter, only the guy who already has hashing power and wants to add some more to what he has.
Huh ? Why would an experienced miner overpay when a newbie wouldn't ? Cause experienced miners usually have a small hoard of bitcoin they made from mining and if they have paid for all their hardware already they'll essentially be purchasing gear for free. I already cashed out the money I spent on bitcoin hardware. Everything I have left (minus small costs) is basically "free" money in my eyes. More or less an opinion really. Newbie bitcoiner's most likely won't have bitcoins. I hope I explained that correctly. how is profit "free"? profit = BTC = value If i made +20% ROI on my previous generation of mining equipment, it doesnt mean that I am more than willing to overpay 20% on my next hardware purchase. thats just silly. I buy hardware only if my calculations indicate it stands a good chance of making a positive return (as a result I have not purchased any hardware in over a month now, despite a growing stash of BTC that I would like to be re-investing by now) prices need to be <1BTC/TH/0.8kW without a PSU to be worthwhile purchase, +/- 10% based on the ease and stability of operation. (my SP10 and bitmain gear has almost zero downtime, unlike all the sh*t running on RPis that constantly wreck SD cards or have issues when there is a power blip) Last thing we need in here is another math war. I'm a layman and do it simple. If I pay $2000 for something and it cost me $2500 to operate it over one month and that something gives me back bitcoin worth over $2500 then I'm good. I don't take it out of control on an OCD level and since I never did, I have never "lost" money. If after I'm all done paying for my hardware and operating costs on what is left over, if you don't see that profit as free money then I'll just agree to disagree. Well in your case profit = BTC = value. To me, profit is the difference between the amount earned and the amount spent. That is a widely accepted definition of what profit is. |
|
|
|
Nothing is really priced anymore for the bitcoin starter, only the guy who already has hashing power and wants to add some more to what he has.
Huh ? Why would an experienced miner overpay when a newbie wouldn't ? Cause experienced miners usually have a small hoard of bitcoin they made from mining and if they have paid for all their hardware already they'll essentially be purchasing gear for free. I already cashed out the money I spent on bitcoin hardware. Everything I have left (minus small costs) is basically "free" money in my eyes. More or less an opinion really. Newbie bitcoiner's most likely won't have bitcoins. I hope I explained that correctly. |
|
|
|
anyon fall into their bullshit ?
their hardware is waaaay to expensive to be worth investing in.even with free electricity you can't ROI...
only way it would be worth is to be at least half the price they are selling now
anything above ... just stay away, much better to just buy BTC
not that i'm advertising or anything, but you can just buy antminers s3(like I did) instead, much cheaper,better efficiency and with shipping included !
Antiminer S3's shipping in mid -September ROI after you buy the PSU's? SNIP SNIP SNIP Was asking the dude that was calling SPtech hardware out... what about Antminer's S3's is the question. Don't need to hop on his question let him answer. Answer the question. Does the Antiminer S3's ROI after you include the purchase of the PSU's? Where are your numbers on efficiency Th/s to Th/s? 5.5 Th/s (SP31) how many Ant S3s is that? 6.0 Th/s (SP35) how many Ant S3s is that? Ok... so let us see your comparisons. No need to post lines and lines of text just the numbers thanks. I want to see how Antiminer's ROI. If you want to compare them with the SP20's then 1.7 TH/s ± 10% @ $1,190.00 + PSU. 1100 W With a 0.9 Efficiency PSU. I just want to see how the S3's are ROI at current BTC prices. Seems like you are trying to sell S3s as ROI. Looks like everything including hashing from the cloud is non ROI currently. Show me where you can find ROI please. If you already have S3's and have been mining them for a while numbers don't mean anything. Soon as you pay for a pre-order product you are losing money everyday since payment. When you buy a rig from stock you aren't losing any money. Maybe Spon-Tech will take my Shoprite coupons?  |
|
|
|
SP20: 1.7 TH/s, 2.5 BTC, ships late Oct, shipping cost not included.
S3: 1.8 TH/s (4x450), 2.3 BTC, ships late Sep, world-wide shipping cost included.
The S3 will mine nearly 1 BTC before the SP20 even ships. That puts the net price like this:
SP20: 2.5 BTC+shipping
S3: 1.3 BTC
The SP20 is twice as expensive!
I'm always a complainer about price, since it is the one factor that makes or breaks a sale. Seems I'm not the only one. This is the way it always has been. Do I want to keep ordering other manufacture hardware? No, but I can't even break even with the retail of the Spon-Tech prices. Other manufactures (chinese for example) I can, because I get them in hand NOW and hash away though out the house. |
|
|
|
well ...looks like us home miner types yelling on here about noise/elec use etc were listened to I'm shocked.......no asic company ever listened before (have to sit down...world is tilting) Searing p.s. bet the price point is $1500 usd at best imho......still tough to justify at these BTC prices and 15c kwh in my case ... and the difficulty being completely nuts...imho they should be priced at end of Oct time line at around $1000 usd....even then tough to make ROI but at least conceivable? maybe? kinda sorta? But hell I might even pay the extra $500 usd over the $1000 to mine with the beast .just to decentralize BTC (take that KNC my 1.7TH will put a dent in your profits by golly!) and WTF I have no life....so again nice whirly noises...pretty LCD's and winter is coming...there it is ..thats the ticket...it is a HEATER we need someone good at math to prove to me that at 15c/kwh I can bank money back on this beastie with costs/elec figured in...yea..ROI via HEAT (man am I grasping at straws or what) (delusion is a foul fiend that follows home miners everywhere don't ya know) ah....another hopeless ROI guest......my life is now again as normal as it ever gets........some people gamble some people get home miners it is all the same.....keeps us in line placid and in worker drone mode......(off to get a lottery ticket) Searing Kinda complicated to read but: http://www.mhi-inc.com/Converter/watt_calculator.htm1000 watts in 24hrs=81950 BTU. @ 12,000 btu per 1 ton of A/C=6.82 tons (seems kinda high IMO,something is off  ) At that rate you could heat a 1500 sq ft home quite well....maybe not in snow country  Or: http://rapidtables.com/convert/power/Watt_to_BTU.htmargh i had it all figured with your above link...dumped my last post...anyway ...with my 15c/kwh and what it took off my $125 gas bill in the winter....it came out to a 35% cut off my equiv costs on the electric bill ...so it would mean I could run a miner in the winter and get 35% off elec costs to run it again from what I figured from the savings in gas to heat house (saved 9 days in heat) and converted to elec savings equiv to get the elec cost of the miner down (not paying those $$$ to the gas company) ..in the heat (it is in the basement so not exactly where I can use it..but hey denial ..I'll take what I can get)...so the price w/the heat credit to run a 1000 watt say sp20 https://tradeblock.com/mining/using the above at say $0.7/gh in cost lets say the spondoolies sp20 is $1190 (w/o power supply) kwh for me is 15c/kwh and the elec costs (minus the HEAT applied) runs the numbers remember 35% less on watts in above calculator at 15c/kwh to get the supposed savings on HEAT 20% ave growth till around the middle of NOV when you probably would get the beastie....and I get a $367 usd loss (at current exchange rate of around $475) if I just go by how much BTC I could make off the unit w/o expenses for 6 months looking at 2.59 btc so..if BTC went back to 500 usd in 6 months I'd MAYBE break even...take the equip cost off and the elec no way and this is with my HEAT THE BASEMENT $$$ savings sigh If I BUY BTC now at 475 usd and the unit costs me my guess above of $1190 usd....that would be 2.5btc w/o the equip loss above and elec of $367 or .77btc 2.59btc -0.77btc with equip elec costs above again with my HEAT savings on winter home heat that is 1.82 btc vs again the 2.5btc I could just buy now math is cruel anyway I probably mucked up the above and all of the above is me being obviously very very bored...but at EVEN a 1000 usd price...you would still be down around $308 usd loss on such a sp20 unit anyway ugly ugly ....anyway those with better math fix/trash the above or whatever...but with my 'very blatant' guesses the ballpark figures as it were... all to make a very nice cozy basement heated up (likely only the basement..mot like I can move the air..boiler heat) so the real savings above are also suspect.. but then again if I do get the miner I can strike back at the evil centralization of BFL/KNC and others ...strike my puny blow for decentralization! yeah er sheesh Searing The SP20 at the current price will not break even. Even if you adjust the diff down to 10%, it will take you 320 days to make $27. And that's just with today's rate. Don't forget that $200-$300 shipping price tag also on top. $1400. If the price was even $800 you'd only max profit around $430. Wow, almost one bitcoin! People, get OUT of the pre-order gamble. Nothing is really priced anymore for the bitcoin starter, only the guy who already has hashing power and wants to add some more to what he has. |
|
|
|
Can Spondoolies-Tech get some money like KNC did and sell from stock next time? So none of this waiting or "shipping in September" and then shipping starts September 30th. KNC is getting out of selling mining hardware to consumers all together. They want the big money. Hard to resist SP-TECH? I say within the next year you'll start mining yourselves, if you already haven't. We don't know. With all those SP30's around, why not power some on and get a return? It is the way of mining manufacturers. They all have started mining on their own since selling hardware is a pain in the ass. Come on, you can tell us. You've surveyed a couple of buildings for your data center, no? http://venturebeat.com/2014/09/04/kncminer-funding/ |
|
|
|
Having a bunch doesn't improve anything. efficacy is same for one machine - as it is for this bunch. Fact is, he is barely breaking even same as everyone else. Only the guys stealing electricity will prevail. Oh so true! With a network hash rate of currently 216.6 PH/s and next difficulty in the area of 31.5B we can see where this is going. As said before I'm really impressed by Spondoolies-Tech and their products, unfortunately not even at 0.55 W/GH (off the wall) it's possible to reach a positive ROI any more if not having free energy (and again and again, THERE IS NO FREE ENERGY, period!). We need the new tech, more TH at less W and lower price! It's all going to hell too fast, I'm really wondering how large mining farm are going to make a profit considering all costs involved with decreasing mining reward and current low FIAT exchange rates. Waiting for BTC/USD rate to rocket up to $800-$900. Then a lot of us would be more happy. This $4xx range is pooey. |
|
|
|
Probably a world record for hashing density. Extremely low cost and effective deployment method. Behind the SP30s are huge fans.  Credit: Cowboyminer mining cooperative. I'd hate to be the one that paid that invoice. If he's not getting free electricity it is a tough pill to swallow. UNLESS Mr. Cowboy got such an exceptional price from buying so many. It is kind of cool seeing so many of them together. He must of took out all the marijuana plants and lights and started a bitcoin venture. |
|
|
|
I will change the configuration that we ship the miners to be 1300W by default.
This way the clients will get the units running at safe rate, without failures, but it will take about 1%-2% of their maximum hash rate. After the client made sure the miner is working, and he has access to the miner for a few hours, he can increase it up to 1350W in settings page and let the system learn.
I suggest something higher than 1300. A sample of some of the machines we received earlier today, after 10 hours and having stabilized their power consumption: Hashrate, Top max watts, Bot max watts 4559 1345 1350 4431 1340 1350 4507 1335 1350 4535 1340 1355 4458 1350 1340 4470 1340 1345 4568 1360 1350 4670 1350 1340 (record holder, fastest I've seen) 4565 1350 1350 4461 1340 1345 4294 1355 1350 (LOOP[7] OFF (no data on loop) -- fixed by a power cycle, now 4521 1355 1350) 4530 1340 1345 4564 1345 1355 4589 1345 1360 4553 1345 1335 4494 1345 1345 4553 1360 1350 4549 1340 1345 4455 1340 1335 We probably have better cooling and power in our facility than most people, but even so, I would guess most SP30s in most buildings should be able to handle 1320W or 1330W as a default starting point. I actually vote for keeping the starting point at 1360W, because I think that the overclocking algorithm is awesome. But that's just me. I'd love to see some pictures of all your gear running. How many cages did you use for all 37 of them? How many can you shove in one rack? How's the temperature been stable since you have been adding lots of sultry hardware? Don't forget the ear protection. One of my co-workers worked in the head-end (that's what some cable companies call their computer rooms full of switches and gear) and never used ear protection. He lost about %40 of his hearing over time and didn't even notice until it was too late since it happened slowly. And there are signs all over the place warning to use ear protection. Derrrrr. |
|
|
|
|
In an auction the audience interested in buying is aware of everyone else's bid so they can make the best plan of attack. I never even heard of a silent auction.
|
|
|
|
I don't see how ROI on the miners can be achieved if the difficulty increases so fast before the miners can even get to us and make any respectable $$$. Looks like our only hope is if the BTC to USD rate goes up and that's not a gamble anyone should be taking with their money, and on the other hand if BTC to USD drops then you can see how the people mining are the ones that are screwed even further here...
Personally I don't believe the cost of the hardware itself is justified, it's too expensive and the hardware manufacturers keep the buyers thinking that at current mining difficulty and rate they will get their money back in 3 months, but that is not true.
When I purchased the miners in July 24 or so the difficulty was about 17.34G at a BTC to USD rate of $650 expecting to get a decent return, now I still don't have my miners and I have to wait another 1 month, have spent $125,900 USD to Spondoolies, difficulty is now at 23.84G at a BTC to USD rate of $500. By the time I get my miners up and working the difficulty will be about 30.00G if not more and even if the rate stays at $500 I'm basically still screwed because the miners will probably not make their money back before they out live their useful life.
Everyone better think well and hard before buying mining equipment on pre-order with 2 months waiting time, never again. I hope I can get my money back by running my 29 x SP30 miners until they end up in the bin by January or February 2015...
Mining Hardware producers like Spondoolies and the rest are pretty much safe. We are the ones worried about getting our money back while they sell us expensive hardware on pre-order.
Anyone who pre-orders anything with a lead time of a couple/several months doesn't get the right to complain in my opinion. I don't care if you spent $4000 or $40,000 worth of hardware. You went online and spent money on something you knew wasn't available yet, wasn't realized yet, wasn't proven yet, wasn't realistic yet. Of course the bitcoin manufacturer is going to act like a care salesman. They are there to sell and take your money. While they won't lie to you, they may omit some information that may change your mind about ordering their hardware. I'll only pre-order or give a small interest free loan to a company if it is guaranteed I'll make all my money back and then some. Mate if the promise of 6TH and 2500W was delivered no one will be complaining about anything, even if it was pre-order as long as they received what they paid for in the time they paid for it. Now we are stuck with paying more hosting fees due to extra power consumption and getting less mining speed as well which means more expenses and less income. I suggest you think about what you are saying before belittling what others have to say. P.S. You don't see me whining that the rate is dropping and we're screwed even more, that is not SP's fault but what is SP's fault is what I pointed out. So if SP wanted to keep their customers happy they should give a better compensation that will allow for us to at least get our ROI so that we don't lose and just MAYBE some of us will consider buying future products from them, but after my experience I don't think I will be doing any pre-order from them, so SP you should try hard and deliver from stock for your SP50 otherwise you will lose a lot of business. I have a right to share my experiences because I paid a lot of $$$ and I've been inconvenienced by the seller so people need to understand this and listen to customers' testimonials and stop bitching about it's the customer's fault, it is NOT the customer's fault. Just real tired of reading 20 pages of bitching and complaining and then soon as someone gets their hardware they wanna go back to kissing ass. Sorry, but ya'll sound like a bunch of women in here. And pardon me if there really is any women, but from all bullshit I've read in the past 20 pages I don't think so. |
|
|
|
Hi all.
We are experiencing some issues with our SW upgrade server which we are investigating. Sometimes it down - in such cases retry after 5 minutes.
We added a way to upload image from your computer so in future you are not dependant on SW upgrade server so much.
Can you implement that in the SP10 as well? I always hate doing "live" firmware upgrades, especially if there is no fail back built in. I've bricked enough hardware in my time using "live" or "online" firmware upgrades. I'll always opt for doing it manually with a local file. Thanks. |
|
|
|
So its 1pm on Thursday in Israel right now and I still haven't even got a email about the compensation options.... Starting to seriously doubt the possibility that they will ship all the GB units by the end of the week... Prove me wrong Spondoolies ... prove me wrong please  I haven´t gotten my tracking email either. I am quite sure that spondoolies will ship in August though, and if any delays should occur I am also quite certain they will make it right by providing some sort of compensation. I never post about people, but Collider, I have to say you have the brownest nose I have ever seen. Acting that way in the neighborhood I grew up would get your ass kicked. Dude, chill out on the brown nose posts for a bit? They are mostly all just repeating what was said or pushing your nose up SP-TECH's ass further. |
|
|
|
I don't see how ROI on the miners can be achieved if the difficulty increases so fast before the miners can even get to us and make any respectable $$$. Looks like our only hope is if the BTC to USD rate goes up and that's not a gamble anyone should be taking with their money, and on the other hand if BTC to USD drops then you can see how the people mining are the ones that are screwed even further here...
Personally I don't believe the cost of the hardware itself is justified, it's too expensive and the hardware manufacturers keep the buyers thinking that at current mining difficulty and rate they will get their money back in 3 months, but that is not true.
When I purchased the miners in July 24 or so the difficulty was about 17.34G at a BTC to USD rate of $650 expecting to get a decent return, now I still don't have my miners and I have to wait another 1 month, have spent $125,900 USD to Spondoolies, difficulty is now at 23.84G at a BTC to USD rate of $500. By the time I get my miners up and working the difficulty will be about 30.00G if not more and even if the rate stays at $500 I'm basically still screwed because the miners will probably not make their money back before they out live their useful life.
Everyone better think well and hard before buying mining equipment on pre-order with 2 months waiting time, never again. I hope I can get my money back by running my 29 x SP30 miners until they end up in the bin by January or February 2015...
Mining Hardware producers like Spondoolies and the rest are pretty much safe. We are the ones worried about getting our money back while they sell us expensive hardware on pre-order.
Anyone who pre-orders anything with a lead time of a couple/several months doesn't get the right to complain in my opinion. I don't care if you spent $4000 or $40,000 worth of hardware. You went online and spent money on something you knew wasn't available yet, wasn't realized yet, wasn't proven yet, wasn't realistic yet. Of course the bitcoin manufacturer is going to act like a car salesman. They are there to sell and take your money. While they won't lie to you, they may omit some information that may change your mind about ordering their hardware. I'll only pre-order or give a small interest free loan to a company if it is guaranteed I'll make all my money back and then some. |
|
|
|
|
It is crappy for miners these days. No one can tell the future, that I'm sure of but as more hashing power is added to the network that only lowers your return. If it is hardware you haven't received yet, no matter how efficient it is, don't expect too much. So much talk about efficiency....if it isn't hashing and making a return who cares. I know, I need to be more pessimistic.
|
|
|
|
|
Show Posts
