With Bitcoin, you can't really ban an address, fortunately. However, an address can be flagged by private companies or governments. For example, BTC you send to a CEX or a regulated platform can be frozen or seized, if they come from a BTC address flagged by Chainanalysis for example, or by a government.

This is what could happen if you have BTC coming from certain mixing platforms, or a wallet from a dark net marketplace etc...

There are also platforms where people can report BTC addresses of criminals, or scammers, if you want to look at an example of that you can look here : https://www.chainabuse.com/reports

My point is :

-Your CEX is hacked : risk for your funds + risk for your personal data
-Your non-KYC service is hacked : risk for your funds

A CEX is more risky from my point of view

And about Bisq, apart if the user downloads a fake software of Bisq, I don't really see what could go wrong ? its way of functioning is very protective of user funds

I don't understand how you can use a CEX in a country where BTC is banned but not Bisq for example ? How can using a CEX be safer than a P2P solution without KYC ?

LocalMonero or Bisq for example protect way more your privacy than any CEX.

Could please provide more details about it ? Very curious about your answer

I'm not convinced that putting a foot in that degree of responsibility (advising people of safe places to deposit money for crypto exchanges) is relevant if you want to associate it with the forum. I'm not convinced that it would serve the forum's own interests.
I'm not against your idea of creating a kycnot.me clone, but I think that associating it with the forum could indirectly cause problems for the forum and its community.

What's more, kycnot.me is extremely efficient, and as for the current (but minor) updating problems, o_e_l_e_o's reply has already provided all the necessary explanations.
I also think you'll have a hard time turning kycnot.me users away from this site, since they've already been established for a long time, people trust them, and they're a reference in the field.

I personally think it would be better to support this team already in place, either by simply using their services, or by making a donation. I think this would be more in favor of the general interest than creating a new website providing the same service.

Exactly! The point you make here is a very good one, and extremely important.

I find it mind-boggling to see how much signature spammers / shitposters don't understand how, in the long term, they're destroying their own business, and in the same time they don't understand that by taking the time to just read the answers and the full OP their lives would be much simpler ; because they wouldn't have to turn themselves into a cheap version of GPT to earn their BTC.

At the same time, I don't know how hard it is to recruit good posters from a campaign management point of view, but I sometimes feel a bit desperate to see that some are hired, and paid, to write crap on the forum (even after being reported to their manager by influential users).
In my opinion, it would be in everyone's interest to pay the real, effective posters more, and not take on the less good ones in the campaigns. Admittedly, there would be a little less volume of messages for the campaigns, but the remaining messages would be less drowned in a mass of absurd messages because the shitposters wouldn't come any more.
I imagine I'm neither the first nor the last to ask myself this question, but if everyone applied "Quality over quantity" for real (talking about campaign recruitment), the forum might be rid of the worst of them.

Bitcointalk Profile Link: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=3373825
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There are already several topics on this subject on the forum, where you'll already find the views of many users on this subject.

As a Frenchman, I can tell you that I don't have a single relative or friend who sincerely believes that these riots are really related to Nahel's death. Otherwise, wouldn't they started the day following his death ? Admittedly, that's what started them, and what ignited them. But a large part of the population will agree that this is just a pretext, as it always is.

However, who in good faith believes that burning schools, town halls and cars, and looting stores, is going to appease the police's relationship / way of working with some of the population ? Of course, the police is sometimes excessively violent, but at the same time, do you know many countries where it would happen like that? I can tell you that in most countries, a clean sweep would have been made. So if the police's lack of resources is what's fuelling the rioters' violence, isn't the snake biting its own tail?

On the whole, the French are fed up with a section of the population that has become self-excluded and is using the death of one of its own to cynically destroy public property. We're not naive, we know very well that most of these rioters are minors who have no political conscience and who only function out of anger and frustration.

I'm not an altcoin holder, and I don't like them much personally.

However, I do recognize their quality in attracting new investors to the market, and for some of them, in trying to solve real-life problems.

But the question is, have altcoins done more good than harm to the crypto ecosystem? For every thousand investors and new crypto enthusiasts that altcoins have brought in, how many have they disgusted with scams, rug pulls and other shenanigans?

They're important, because they represent a huge financial volume. But for me, their greatest quality is to demonstrate day after day how solid, useful and self-sufficient Bitcoin is.

I can't even count the number of messages I've read on the internet saying: "I got into cryptos for a get-rich-quick scheme with some altcoins, after failures and disappointments I'm now all-in BTC". Many don't understand how altcoins work. Those who make money, make altcoins useful because they earn profit with them, those who lose money, make them useful because sometimes it directs them to BTC.

It's nuanced, as always, ETH is not a stupid memecoin, and don't offer the same possibilities. So I think some alts can be important, while others are just losses for everyone (except for their dubious developers who get rich on the backs of investors, examples are numerous on the BSC chain).

28 - iwantmyhomepaidwithbtc2

Thank you, OP!

Mince... Moi je pensais naïvement que l'on avait un peu de sang frais pour les conversations de la section "Hors-sujet"

That's why I wrote :


I am not talking about the fact of storing your BTC only, I am more talking about the place where you exchange it

que c'est .... toi, Becassine 

I think that anyone interested in Bitcoin for anything other than pure speculation knows what nonsense it is to consider it as centralized.

It's not really possible to prohibit people from holding BTC in their own wallet, and doing P2P transactions, fortunately. For the others, those who just see it as a speculative product, it probably wouldn't make any difference, because they're probably the ones who keep their BTC in CEX wallets whether required by law or not

People are more or less all aware of the existence of TOR, VPNs, and software associated to Bitcoin (Electrum, for example), so they don't have to depend on CEX if they wish.

Non-exhaustive list:

-Risk of exit scams
-Risk of resale of personal data = possible identity theft
-Risk of hacking the platform and stealing your banking and personal data, as mentioned above.
-Risk of your funds being seized
-Risk of your funds being frozen and of having to provide documents you don't even have to recover them
-The CEX can become bankrupt
-CEX work hand in hand with the tax authorities, which doesn't help everyone
-They regularly block buying and selling when the price of BTC fluctuates sharply, which is annoying.
-They centralize BTC, which was created to be totally decentralized.

Mt Gox, FTX, and all the other examples mentioned in my first message + those present in the link I put to Gazeta's topic are enough to illustrate all this.

Yes, but that's the kind of message I'm trying to get across too, I think that if more people used P2P / DEX services, the supply would automatically be greater, and that would solve the currencies' problem.

Personally, I never buy BTC (my BTC comes from mining + signature campaigns and my salaries paid directly in BTC), but I do sell some dusts on a regular basis. I regularly receive offers for currencies other than USD or EUR, which I accept. Depending on the country and the bank, conversion fees below certain amounts are not a problem (at least for me). I give preference to the less common fiat currencies when I sell, precisely because the point you raise is true, some users have difficulty using their local FIAT in P2P.


I must confess that I don't look too closely at the value of BTC in FIAT. I sell some BTC to pay for certain things, and like everyone else, I'm not against the idea of BTC having a high fiat value. But I would have said the same thing with BTC at 3,000 usd, which is basically the same to me. I'm not denying that CEX has helped push up BTC's popularity and therefore its price. However, I don't deny either that they are contributing to denature BTC from its original purpose.


Fair enough.  I tend to forget that people use BTC for trading, it's not my personal conception of its use but you make a very good point.


Bitcoin ATMs are a good solution for example. Some own excessive high fees, some not, it depends of your geographical situation of course.


Bisq is fine regarding this concern IMO. Peachbitcoin and the system of escrow too, but you have to trust them indeed.


Fair enough. I have contacted them myself on the forum to ask if they are planning to stay on their « mobile app only » policy only or not, the lack of website UI is a problem for me too (but still less than giving my KYC to Coinbase or others bandits).

Bitcointalk Username: iwantmyhomepaidwithbtc2
Utopia Public Key: A70A971A70ADCA38FB2035357A580F1838447405C1AFD7467195187765191E25
BTC Address: bc1qze6ekzuryncaumtyrswpvdmr9ht27tuumcpcsw
Message Deep Link (Chat link): https://utopia.im/d53b4431fd604e2f0261792444797aa4?tid=2362830598126440380
Slot No: 28


Thank you OP and Utopia team for this new Raffle 

Once again, the Belarussian government does not shine in its ability to understand the subject it is tackling...

I wonder how they're going to go about it lol, the concept of wanting to ban anything P2P escapes me completely...


This will be one more argument they can cobble together in the event of unfair legal proceedings. But I'm hopeful that people will know and have access to documentation that will enable them to avoid such stupid accusations.

In my humble opinion, it's all about getting people to talk about them, and it's not the first or last time that this government has said something irrational to get a bit of international attention.

I sincerely hope for the people of Belarus to get rid of these idiots. I wish them good luck.

Ouais des fois il semblerait que ça puisse être long, ça dépend un peu des volumes traités par les mixers. Quand tu utilises le service ou tu investis des BTC chez eux, tu installes soit un bot Telegram, soit tu passes par Jabber. Quand je me suis inscrit le bot, j'ai tout de suite reçu un message XMPP qui me disait : "En raison de peu de volume de transactions, la procédure peut prendre plus de temps que d'habitude etc...etc..."

Pour l'instant, je n'ai pas encore envoyé de fonds, justement à cause de ce message, j'attends qu'il y ait un peu plus d'activité, car je n'ai pas envie de voir des BTC immobilisés trop longtemps.


On est d'accords.

« Not your Keys, Not your Coins ». « Don’t keep your Bitcoin on exchanges »

These advices are excellent, and no rational person with a genuine interest for Bitcoin should ignore them. There's no need to explain why, when you consider the number of scandals, scams, exit scams and accounts frozen / seized by the different CEX; because, let's not forget, CEXs work hand in hand with governments.
All the people advising this are therefore informed that CEXs are not reliable, do not work in our personal interest, and rightly so.

However, every time I read this on the internet, people stop at the Bitcoin storage step. That's not enough. There's another important step: exchanging Bitcoin.

So why not just advise and tell people to stop using CEX entirely? Bitcoin is by nature decentralized, why make it centralized? Why should a CEX that doesn't deserve to store our financial funds, our cryptos, deserve to be left with our banking and personal information?
Is it really that important to take the risk of having your funds frozen, losing your personal data, and enriching these useless people? Who wants to contribute to CZ's wealth, or encourage Coinbase in their disgusting practices?

Some will reply that CEX users choose "convenience ". Even that's not true! How is passing your KYC to Binance and using their UI easier than installing/using the Peachbitcoin (for example) app? It’s not! The only reason CEXs are in this position is because they benefit from substantial advertising resources.

We have effecient, fast, simple, user-friendly and totally P2P solutions at our disposal. For example :

-Bisq, a great P2P exchange, focused on privacy
-PeachBitcoin, their motto is #KYCfree
-Robosats, simple and efficient for those using Lightning network
-Majestic Bank, where you can swap BTC and XMR in a privacy-friendly way
-LocalMonero, another P2P exchange platform ; privacy focused

There are plenty of others, which you can easily find on kycnot.me

So why not advise people to use these services, in addition to advising them to use a non-custodial wallet?
Why shouldn't we be as enthusiastic about advising people not to use and register on CEX as we are about not storing their BTC there?

Not your keys, not your coins. No CEX at all.


P.S. : In this topic I'm not interested in altcoins and launchpad / launchpool type products, I'm only talking about Bitcoin exchange and storage. Personally, I don't think any launchpad justify a KYC procedure, but it's up to each individual to determine his or her priorities.

---

For those who want to read more on this subject, I highly recommend this topic from GazetaBitcoin

The last time such riots took place was in 2005 under Sarkozy when the "Contrat Première embauche" law was proposed. The former governement canceled the law proposition thanks to the riots, and situation became ok quickly. Macron is not Sarkozy, and the recent ''Reforme des retraites'' proved that he refuses to cancel any law proposition, on the contrary, he even use 49,3 to make it going faster.

In France, mass demonstrations, more or less violent (like the ones you mention on the subject of pensions) are considered normal, but riots are not considered normal by anyone in the country.

Here we have people robbing gun shops, burning schools, fighting with random people in the street, the government sending in the GIGN, the BRI, the RAID in certain cities (Lyon, Lille, Paris). Citizens' militias are starting to organize themselves, and that's a bad sign for the health of our society.
What's really worrying is that the police unions are starting to communicate in dubious ways.
No, the situation isn't classic, even for the French people. I think it'll calm down, as it always does, but we're all aware that each riot becomes more violent than the last. We all know that every major demonstration is more violently repressed than the last.

These riots are just a reflection of the fact that our French society has reached the end of its patience on two specific issues: police' violence on the one hand, and immigration seen as virulent by some of the French on the other. What worries all the compatriots I talk to is the never-ending rise of this respective violence (police as well as demonstrators / rioters).


Don't worry, rich people and tourists are not the one who will burn everything in France lol