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Author Topic: Merit & new rank requirements  (Read 159268 times)
pugman
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June 20, 2018, 01:40:42 AM
 #4561

There is no way to earn merit under the current system.  Stop deluding yourselves.  The merit system here works EXCLUSIVELY FOR THE HIGH RANKING members.  Most of the senior members here are somewhat jaded and do not have time to look around for interesting posts, because hardly anything interests these people more - except maybe another bounty announcement where Senior members get 1000% more than Jr. Members, for example.

To make giving out merit an optional thing provides zero motivation for current members to give it out, and leaves the system in a state where no one ever advances.  The proof is in the pudding.  It's become a farce.

This leads to a small group of folks in control over a large group, incentivizing the hoarders to remain hoarders, particularly when the trend in airdrops and bounties is to reward higher members with such lopsided rewards compared to Jr. Members.

Like it or not, the merit system here is in no way egalitarian, and fosters a divide amongst the majority against a small minority.

There is the distinct air of superiority coming from most of the higher up members here and nothing you can say will change that.  Most members above the Jr. rank act like their shit doesn't stink simply because you got some merit colluding with other members.

Just the fact the Bitcointalk.org membership is swollen with Jr. Members says it all.  I personally do not care one way or another but think it is a riot that senior members around here are so spiteful of members below their ranks and go to great lengths to defend their lopsided position.

Granted, there are many spam accounts and other nefarious things going on, but the forum is ignoring a vast pool of knowledgable Jr. Members with it's merit system.  This is an unsustainable path to take for long-term growth.

Don't take my word for it.  Just keep doing what you are doing.  Other forums will come along and supplant this one, because this one is becoming more like an exclusive club for a small percentage of its members rather than an idea to promote the next paradigm in currencies.

Change your ways, Bitcointalk.

Edit:  And this post is a good post worthy of at least one merit point - the points are clearly stated, and it is similar to the opinion of thousands of Jr. Members.  My point is I won't receive any merit for this post because it attacks the ones responsible for delivering merit points.  Thus proving the merit system here is not about rewarding intelligent posts, but instead to keep Jr. Members in their places.  LOL!
Posts in other sections to get merit. Altcoins sections suck. Because it's overrun by bots and half of them are atleast scam icos. A few real people go there.

Also, I don't give more than a merit to people but you made good points. I wanted to give you 10 but decided to save it a little. You can visit here, learn stuff and maybe get more merits, but it ain't a guarantee that you'll : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2968050.msg30499459#msg30499459

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dumedoiiph
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June 20, 2018, 04:34:56 AM
 #4562

The fact that some people will never get Merit points is one of its great successes. Looking at your post history you are the type of user that should never rank up.
It is interesting to see users joined topics in Meta, including this one, to complain about merit system unfairness months after the lauch day of merit system.  Shocked
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June 20, 2018, 07:11:45 AM
 #4563

There is no way to earn merit under the current system.  Stop deluding yourselves.  The merit system here works EXCLUSIVELY FOR THE HIGH RANKING members.

That's simply untrue. https://public.tableau.com/profile/ddmrddmr#!/vizhome/BitcointalkMeritDashboard/GlobalSummary

1843 accounts have ranked up from Jr. Member to at least Member.

You put together a good argument but it based on your own experience. As pugman pointed out you exclusively post on boards that most people that have Merit to spend have put on ignore.

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thedino
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June 20, 2018, 07:34:10 AM
 #4564

From the look of things,legendary members do not need merits anymore.That is to say,it does not affect them in anyway.But they are those that are currently being given the higher number of merits by others. Hardly will you see a newbie or a jnr member being given a merit so far.Well,the merit system just started and we cant jump to conclusion how the trend will be.But i foresee that lower ranked members will struggle to get merits. I must say that this is an important check system that has been put in place,but i see myself being a newbie for another year or two. Grin Grin Grin
d5000
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June 20, 2018, 07:47:06 AM
 #4565

From the look of things,legendary members do not need merits anymore.That is to say,it does not affect them in anyway.But they are those that are currently being given the higher number of merits by others. Hardly will you see a newbie or a jnr member being given a merit so far.Well,the merit system just started and we cant jump to conclusion how the trend will be.But i foresee that lower ranked members will struggle to get merits. I must say that this is an important check system that has been put in place,but i see myself being a newbie for another year or two.
You may be right that it's difficult to get merit points for new members. But that is also pretty obvious: If you are new to a topic, it's difficult to write contributions that other people will see as "meritable".

But the good thing is: If you are willing to learn about Bitcoin, then you will write increasingly better post. You will become an increasingly valuable member of the community, even if your rank at first stays low. But then people will give you more merit points and you'll rank up, like more than 1800 accounts have since the merit system was introduced.

I for myself, prefer to give merits to lower-ranked accounts, but if I see something useful written by a Legendary, I'll merit that, too. You can look at my profile and check that.

What I see critical is the low merit circulation we see currently, although the figures in @coinlocket's post indicate that we're probably near the "bottom". Maybe theymos - if he hasn't still - should think about increasing the distribution of merits to merit sources until more merit sources are found.

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June 20, 2018, 07:49:31 AM
 #4566

But the good thing is: If you are willing to learn about Bitcoin, then you will write increasingly better post.

Unfortunately, he's unlikely to be willing to do that on account of being a copy paste spambot.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2818350.msg28894124#msg28894124

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d5000
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June 20, 2018, 07:57:34 AM
 #4567

But the good thing is: If you are willing to learn about Bitcoin, then you will write increasingly better post.

Unfortunately, he's unlikely to be willing to do that on account of being a copy paste spambot.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2818350.msg28894124#msg28894124

 Angry . It seems one has to check every post to determine if it's worth to be answered ... maybe an one-click copy-and-paste checker would be a good "complement" for the Merit system  Roll Eyes Tongue

But my post could as well be interpreted as an answer to @lKSLMNSLKnkndlksnkJ's rant.

(Reported the spambot.)

lKSLMNSLKnkndlksnkJ
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June 20, 2018, 07:50:42 PM
 #4568

Thanks for all the cogent responses.

I didn't mean to rile feathers, but in hindsight I can see that the way I used the words could have done just that.

The comments after my post raise enough good issues to make me realize the subject is much more involved than at first glance.

So, thank you to all the members here for giving your input on the subject.  And, although I think some of the points I made were correct, after reading your responses, I realize I am mostly wrong about the BCT merit system. 

I'm proud to be a member of BCT regardless of my rank, and I want to wish you all the best of luck both now and in the future.

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seizetehday5
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June 20, 2018, 08:27:24 PM
 #4569

The fact that some people will never get Merit points is one of its great successes. Looking at your post history you are the type of user that should never rank up.
It is interesting to see users joined topics in Meta, including this one, to complain about merit system unfairness months after the lauch day of merit system.  Shocked
People have been complaining since day 1, nothing new here. It is true that some people deserve zero merits, but it doesn't feel like there are enough merits for the posts that do deserve them. A lot of worthy posts go unmerited, and if you have to find a merit distribution thread to get it, then that is a problem in my humble opinion.

JayJuanGee
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June 20, 2018, 08:48:01 PM
Last edit: June 20, 2018, 09:04:23 PM by JayJuanGee
Merited by DdmrDdmr (1)
 #4570

The fact that some people will never get Merit points is one of its great successes. Looking at your post history you are the type of user that should never rank up.
It is interesting to see users joined topics in Meta, including this one, to complain about merit system unfairness months after the lauch day of merit system.  Shocked
People have been complaining since day 1, nothing new here. It is true that some people deserve zero merits, but it doesn't feel like there are enough merits for the posts that do deserve them. A lot of worthy posts go unmerited, and if you have to find a merit distribution thread to get it, then that is a problem in my humble opinion.

Of course the experiences of each poster is going to vary, and of course the dynamics of the forum are not the same as when I started four years ago (partly based on the introduction of the merit system, partly based on changes in the crypto space including infighting and pumping of coins, and partly changes in the membership that may be leaning to use this forum as a source of income rather than participating in topics and threads).

Nonetheless, I believe that anyone starting out in the forum or even continuing in the forum in one of the middle ranks can still figure out ways to earn merits (if they believe that earning merits is important).  You can also fully participate in the core aspects of the forum, such as posting and reading messages and choosing topics that are interesting to you) without earning merits, too.

I recall that when I started in the forum, hardly anyone paid attention or responded to my posts, and mostly I post in the Wall Observer thread - yet after a while, other posters got to know me better.. some liked me and some didn't and some ignored me (which continues, by the way).  

So there can be a variety of responses from other members (and sometimes direct hostility), and still I personally don't tend to adjust my approach too much based on what others think or want me to do, but instead I approach the whole forum participation matter by what I believe (in my own discretion) is important to me at any particular time (which changes over time too).

Anyhow, I think that part of the point(s) that I am trying to make is that it seems likely to me that if you participate in the forum in areas that interest you, and you are enthusiastic about those areas of your interest and you attempt to interact meaningfully with other posters, then sooner or later, other members will notice you and your posts and merits will flow in your direction.  Maybe not a lot of merits (or as many as you would like), but getting merits, now, involves posting (interacting) rather than merely reading or playing some more passive role.  

I will also concede that there is likely some truth to the fact that it takes merits to earn merits (meaning that the more merits that you receive, then the more likely other posters will merit you); however, even if there are advantages to having merits and having ranks, there are a lot of members who route for the underdog or will be willing to send merits to lower ranked (or lower merited posters) based on the content of the post or even some other aspect of other posts from the member.  Sometimes, also the truth of the matter is that some posters will merit you once you have merited them.  I will tell you that sometimes I think about meriting a post, but I see that the poster never gives out merits (even though they receive a lot of merits), and then I will weigh against meriting a poster who never seems to give out merits even when receiving a lot of merits (case by case of course, and sometimes, if a posts gets enough attention from me to consider meriting it, I will just merit the post without getting into too much research about the background of the person... in other words, there is quite a bit of variance and discretion in when any particular member decides if to merit a post or a poster).

Furthermore, participation in certain types of threads are not going to be likely to generate very many merits, and perhaps you can appreciate which ones, such as ones in which members are merely seeking bounties and ICO scams and some of that crapy and scammy alt coin pumping nonsense stuff that already exists on the forum.. .but hey, to each his/her own regarding where and how you want to spend your forum time.

Of course, we have to deal with ESG, KYC & AML, but each of them are attack vectors on Bitcoin to be avoided or minimized.

Put BTC here: 35EVP8EePt8dyvKHaB7bXaRmKLm22YgRCA

How much alt coin diversification is necessary? if you are investing in Bitcoin, then perhaps 0%?
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June 20, 2018, 10:26:03 PM
 #4571

The fact that some people will never get Merit points is one of its great successes. Looking at your post history you are the type of user that should never rank up.
It is interesting to see users joined topics in Meta, including this one, to complain about merit system unfairness months after the lauch day of merit system.  Shocked
People have been complaining since day 1, nothing new here. It is true that some people deserve zero merits, but it doesn't feel like there are enough merits for the posts that do deserve them. A lot of worthy posts go unmerited, and if you have to find a merit distribution thread to get it, then that is a problem in my humble opinion.


This is true, my opinion is that we can maybe reduce the required merit to rank up for example if we reduce by 20-50% nothing will change, people with bad post will not rank up but will be easier for good people to rank up. Abusers will always abuse and for them is irrelevant.


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June 21, 2018, 02:39:06 AM
 #4572


This is true, my opinion is that we can maybe reduce the required merit to rank up for example if we reduce by 20-50% nothing will change, people with bad post will not rank up but will be easier for good people to rank up. Abusers will always abuse and for them is irrelevant.

That's how I felt mostly in regards to the first step. I posted about it sometime ago, and if Members started halfway to their next rank I would now be carrying the Senior Member Badge. I do like the idea of lowering the requirements though It would be a nice balance between the old timeline for ranking up and still needing to produce quality posts.

I have also given up on caring, It'll be nice when I get there, but the second half is going to take longer for sure. The review services were nice but most of them died out, and a lot of people are beginning to hate searching out good posts to merit because they see there is still a ton of garbage out there.


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June 21, 2018, 02:45:40 AM
 #4573

People have been complaining since day 1, nothing new here. It is true that some people deserve zero merits, but it doesn't feel like there are enough merits for the posts that do deserve them. A lot of worthy posts go unmerited, and if you have to find a merit distribution thread to get it, then that is a problem in my humble opinion.
Complainers will never get any merit if they keep complaining about drawbacks of merit system and  new rank requirements.
Just ignoring them, let they do what they want.
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June 21, 2018, 06:41:24 AM
 #4574

Complainers will never get any merit if they keep complaining about drawbacks of merit system and  new rank requirements.
Just ignoring them, let they do what they want.
Well they do get merits if they come up with valid points like this...
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June 21, 2018, 07:07:32 AM
 #4575

Complainers will never get any merit if they keep complaining about drawbacks of merit system and  new rank requirements.
Just ignoring them, let they do what they want.
Well they do get merits if they come up with valid points like this...

Every members have chance to get Merit. Because Merit is not a prerogative, it's such like a gift which you deserve it. Everyone has their own opinion, so when they think that there are some problems with the merit system, they have right to complain. Maybe the merit system will not change, but at least they spoke out what they want.
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June 21, 2018, 01:26:21 PM
Last edit: June 22, 2018, 02:16:34 PM by joulion86
Merited by d5000 (1)
 #4576

There is no way to earn merit under the current system.  Stop deluding yourselves.  The merit system here works EXCLUSIVELY FOR THE HIGH RANKING members.  Most of the senior members here are somewhat jaded and do not have time to look around for interesting posts, because hardly anything interests these people more - except maybe another bounty announcement where Senior members get 1000% more than Jr. Members, for example.
To make giving out merit an optional thing provides zero motivation for current members to give it out, and leaves the system in a state where no one ever advances.  The proof is in the pudding.  It's become a farce.
...

There are ways to earn merits, but it is not an easy journey. By now you received 4 merits for your post, even though you mainly criticized the system. For my part, i read a lot and rarely post stuff, just because I feel like I never have a lot to add. Also I am only interested in Bitcoin and no other scammy coin or fork that drives away important streams of money and reduces the trust in cryptocurrency in general, which reduces the amount of threads that are open for discussion for me. Yet somehow I received a handful of merits already.

One merit I received from mdayonliner, and after reviewing his profile I was impressed as he really spends a lot of time in this forum and earned his way to full member from nothing in a few months. He posts a lot, and I can't say that I like the way he earns most of his merits, but it still serves as a good example that it is 100% possible to earn merits if you put your heart to it. The same goes for your post: you put your head to it and criticized the merit system, but many people seem to like what you wrote. It is all about making you think about what you post, instead of puking something into your  keyboard and sending it off. If it is something that resonates with someone else on the other side of the planet, that that's a good post and has the chance of earning merit. If it is not worth reading, it will go unnoticed.

I actually would like an even stricter Merit system:
a system were you need to continuously earn merits to be and stay a certain rank. A system where you are never done earning, because only your last 3-6 months are counted. This would remove a lot of paid spam.

jeanniej4
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June 21, 2018, 01:56:22 PM
 #4577


There are ways to earn merits, but it is not an easy journey. By now you received 4 merits for your post, even though you mainly criticized the system. For my part, i read a lot and rarely post stuff, just because I feel like I never have a lot to add. Also I am only interested in Bitcoin and no other scammy coin that fork that drives away important streams of money and reduces the trust in cryptocurrency in general, which reduces the amount of threads that are open for discussion for me. Yet somehow I received a handful of merits already.

One merit I received from mdayonliner, and after reviewing his profile I was impressed as he really spends a lot of time in this forum and earned his way to full member from nothing in a few months. He posts a lot, and I can't say that I like the way he earns most of his merits, but it still serves as a good example that it is 100% possible to earn merits if you put your heart to it. The same goes for your post: you put your head to it and criticized the merit system, but many people seem to like what you wrote. It is all about making you think about what you post, instead of puking something into your  keyboard and sending it off. If it is something that resonates with someone else on the other side of the planet, that that's a good post and has the chance of earning merit. If it is not worth reading, it will go unnoticed.

I actually would like an even stricter Merit system:
a system were you need to continuously earn merits to be and stay a certain rank. A system where you are never done earning, because only your last 3-6 months are counted. This would remove a lot of paid spam.

I strongly agree with your thinking: anyone can earn merit if they are really passionate about their work on the forum, although it is not easy because they need more knowledge.
But I do not agree on "... even the stricter Merit system", because I see the merit system is very strict and difficult now, if it is difficult anymore I think I will be desperate too!
I am a newcomer, and I have been quietly learning everything here for nearly six months. Now I start to work and hope to earn merit with my effort and wisdom.  Smiley
DdmrDdmr
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June 21, 2018, 02:25:07 PM
 #4578

<...>
I actually would like an even stricter Merit system: a system were you need to continuously earn merits to be and stay a certain rank. A system where you are never done earning, because only your last 3-6 months are counted. This would remove a lot of paid spam.
I have to agree with jeanniej4. De-ranking due to not gaining merits in a certain period of time is kind of out of the question, especially with the current lack of overall merit (I mean it’s not like we can bathe in a merit tub every day; not even the best posters can). This has been discussed here on Meta before and is generally dismissed as an idea for multiple reasons.

What on the other hand may take-off (or not -  but I would vouch for it) at some point is that Campaign Managers cherry-pick their participants (at least the signature ones) based on factors such as a non-smamming track, a rank, and a certain amount of merits gained over a given period of time (before the campaign, but perhaps during the campaign too). That would lead to giving the campaign better visibility and credibility, although credibility may need to step-up to become a two-way road between signatory and campaign in order to make it a win-win situation.

MagicSmoker
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June 21, 2018, 03:17:39 PM
 #4579

...
I am a newcomer, and I have been quietly learning everything here for nearly six months. Now I start to work and hope to earn merit with my effort and wisdom.  Smiley


This is a forum, not a job. The whole point of joining a forum is to discuss a common interest, not to churn out posts to meet the requirements of some bounty or sig campaign (ie - work).

Sova_tmb
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June 21, 2018, 09:41:09 PM
 #4580

Hello guys, to my opinion merit fair system , just the problem because people don't receive merit in the next:

1) Poor english.

2) Very lazy and don't read useful information  and share with another users.

Thank you for reading Smiley


 
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