Showdown: Trump Vs Haley. Bitcoin betting on the 2024 US Presidential Election

[Sithara007]

So Trumps wall was working great and then when Biden became president it just stopped working.  Does that really make sense to you?  Do you think it's a magic wall? 

The reality is that the broken US immigration system can only be fixed by congress.  Neither Trump nor Biden have/had the power to fix it.  If any president were to blame it would be LBJ or Nixon for destabilizing Latin America 40 years ago.  Executive orders may have some short term affect, but they can't solve the underlying issue.  And the wall is nothing but a gimmick that Trump used to excite the mouth breathing xenophobes that worship him.  

I don't know whether the wall has any magic attached to it or not. But please check the second graph that I posted in my previous reply. You can clearly see that border crossings went up by more than 5x as soon as Biden assumed power as the president of the United States. So what is the reason behind this? If Trump doesn't have the reason to fix immigration issue, then how did he kept the number of illegal aliens crossing the border low during his term? And why that number suddenly shot up once Biden came to power?

[1714202419]

1714202419

[1714202419]

1714202419

[1714202419]

1714202419

[FanEagle]

USA is not some nation that is trying some one race thing, they are filled with a million different races, people from all over the world go there. The logical differences is that USA is a place that accepts immigrants, in fact, every single year there are green card drawings that end up taking a certain amount of people (in thousands) to go live there if they want to, and that is the difference in the south of the wall understanding.

Instead of building a wall to keep people away, they could just put in entry points where you get the information of those people, put them in places like true immigrants, and make them live the USA life. I have a friend who did that to Netherlands, and immigrated, and it wasn't anything like this. Why try to build a wall, when you can build a door?

[cabron]

USA is not some nation that is trying some one race thing, they are filled with a million different races, people from all over the world go there. The logical differences is that USA is a place that accepts immigrants, in fact, every single year there are green card drawings that end up taking a certain amount of people (in thousands) to go live there if they want to, and that is the difference in the south of the wall understanding.

Instead of building a wall to keep people away, they could just put in entry points where you get the information of those people, put them in places like true immigrants, and make them live the USA life. I have a friend who did that to Netherlands, and immigrated, and it wasn't anything like this. Why try to build a wall, when you can build a door?

People still think the US is the land of opportunity though that's why people go there looking for greener pastures. But with Biden, they allow those borders to open hoping he gets votes from those refugees. They don't call it immigrants anymore, it has to sound like they helped them so they call them refugees.

They are surrounded by countries that have no power to conquer them. The rest of the countries in America are poor. It's not the Middle East, Israel has to surround the country with walls despite the land not being their own.

[STT]

The wall can only slow people down at best, I dislike the whole idea of immigration being seen as a great negative.  Like any commodity, labor has a cost to it and with a great rise it brings greater costs to the economy.  Quite ironically the immigrants are more often then not a benefactor to the country they seek to work in.  It is important for people to register properly and follow laws, that cannot be ignored but the wall is mostly a waste of time imo.  The desert itself is the biggest restriction and discouragement.

[Sithara007]

The wall can only slow people down at best, I dislike the whole idea of immigration being seen as a great negative.  Like any commodity, labor has a cost to it and with a great rise it brings greater costs to the economy.  Quite ironically the immigrants are more often then not a benefactor to the country they seek to work in.  It is important for people to register properly and follow laws, that cannot be ignored but the wall is mostly a waste of time imo.  The desert itself is the biggest restriction and discouragement.

As usual, you guys resort to your tried and tested tactic. I never said that "immigration" is bad for the country. What I was implying is that "legal immigration" should be given preference over "illegal immigration". Millions of illegal aliens are allowed into the country every year, when hundreds of thousands of legal immigrants wait for 5 years or more waiting to get their visa. I am speaking against this discrimination. The American legal system and the Democrat party discriminates people who follow the laws of the land and actively encourage people who break it.

[Hirose UK]

USA is not some nation that is trying some one race thing, they are filled with a million different races, people from all over the world go there. The logical differences is that USA is a place that accepts immigrants, in fact, every single year there are green card drawings that end up taking a certain amount of people (in thousands) to go live there if they want to, and that is the difference in the south of the wall understanding.

Instead of building a wall to keep people away, they could just put in entry points where you get the information of those people, put them in places like true immigrants, and make them live the USA life. I have a friend who did that to Netherlands, and immigrated, and it wasn't anything like this. Why try to build a wall, when you can build a door?

People still think the US is the land of opportunity though that's why people go there looking for greener pastures. But with Biden, they allow those borders to open hoping he gets votes from those refugees. They don't call it immigrants anymore, it has to sound like they helped them so they call them refugees.

They are surrounded by countries that have no power to conquer them. The rest of the countries in America are poor. It's not the Middle East, Israel has to surround the country with walls despite the land not being their own.

It's not that easy because not all immigrants become permanent citizens or become legal US citizens and are legalized by law to be able to participate in election voting so there is another purpose for Biden to do this not to get more votes.
After all there are special regulations set by the US government regarding immigrants living there and there will be no support that can influence Biden to get more votes regarding him granting the permit.
It is also important to know that not all immigrants who become US citizens can accept Biden as a good leader of the country and there will definitely be different choices for each immigrant who begins to settle down to become a US citizen.

But it seems that it will be easier to use immigrants as supporters when there is a certain amount of money specifically for immigrants there because in this era it is no longer surprising how many votes are bought when there is an election taking place.

[TwitchySeal]

So Trumps wall was working great and then when Biden became president it just stopped working.  Does that really make sense to you?  Do you think it's a magic wall?  

The reality is that the broken US immigration system can only be fixed by congress.  Neither Trump nor Biden have/had the power to fix it.  If any president were to blame it would be LBJ or Nixon for destabilizing Latin America 40 years ago.  Executive orders may have some short term affect, but they can't solve the underlying issue.  And the wall is nothing but a gimmick that Trump used to excite the mouth breathing xenophobes that worship him.  

I don't know whether the wall has any magic attached to it or not. But please check the second graph that I posted in my previous reply. You can clearly see that border crossings went up by more than 5x as soon as Biden assumed power as the president of the United States. So what is the reason behind this? If Trump doesn't have the reason to fix immigration issue, then how did he kept the number of illegal aliens crossing the border low during his term? And why that number suddenly shot up once Biden came to power?

Lockdowns ending in Mexico and most of central america caused a big influx at the border in late 2020/early 2021.  The pandemic fucked poor countries the hardest plus new US sanctions were just coming into effect in Cuba and Honduras => More people leaving everything a fleeing.

There were also a bunch of complex policy related factors, like a judge ruling a policy was illegal in Nov 2020, and then a massive build up on the border.

But really no need to get into the weeds of immigration policy, the reason for the surge in migrants in late 2020/2021 shouldn't be required to discredit your argument about the wall.  Just common sense.   If Trump built an effective wall that worked while he was president, it wouldn't just stop working because someone else was elected president.  The surge began before Biden took office and when he did, it's not like Biden went and tore the thing down.

People still think the US is the land of opportunity though that's why people go there looking for greener pastures. But with Biden, they allow those borders to open hoping he gets votes from those refugees.

This is a complete lie.  Biden doesn't allow open borders.  Democrats don't want open borders.  Republicans just say that over and over again because people eventually assume it's true.

Do your own research on Bidens immigration policies.  There's a reason the far left are furious at him.  Also, the "they bring them in because they want their votes" is a variation of the Great Replacement Theory, which is one of the pillars of White Supremacy ideology.  It's also bullshit.

They don't call it immigrants anymore, it has to sound like they helped them so they call them refugees.

Refugees leave their country for their own safety.  Immigrants that aren't refugees choose to leave their country for other reasons.  Not everyone at the southern border is fleeing a dangerous situation, but many of them are.

[nullama]

~snip~
As usual, you guys resort to your tried and tested tactic. I never said that "immigration" is bad for the country. What I was implying is that "legal immigration" should be given preference over "illegal immigration". Millions of illegal aliens are allowed into the country every year, when hundreds of thousands of legal immigrants wait for 5 years or more waiting to get their visa. I am speaking against this discrimination. The American legal system and the Democrat party discriminates people who follow the laws of the land and actively encourage people who break it.

Illegal immigration is a big topic in the US, but the thing is that I think now many businesses basically require these workers to keep the businesses open.

With covid we saw many businesses in trouble because they couldn't get cheap labor. It's the same with all these illegal immigrants, they keep prices down basically.

At the end of the day people use migrants to push their ideas, whatever they are. It could be "migrants are increasing house prices", or "migrants keep fast food prices down", etc. At the end of the day it's a more complex system and it's very nuanced. But those things don't fit on a sign so you can't really have a proper discussion about it.

[noormcs5]

~snip~
As usual, you guys resort to your tried and tested tactic. I never said that "immigration" is bad for the country. What I was implying is that "legal immigration" should be given preference over "illegal immigration". Millions of illegal aliens are allowed into the country every year, when hundreds of thousands of legal immigrants wait for 5 years or more waiting to get their visa. I am speaking against this discrimination. The American legal system and the Democrat party discriminates people who follow the laws of the land and actively encourage people who break it.

Illegal immigration is a big topic in the US, but the thing is that I think now many businesses basically require these workers to keep the businesses open.

With covid we saw many businesses in trouble because they couldn't get cheap labor. It's the same with all these illegal immigrants, they keep prices down basically.

At the end of the day people use migrants to push their ideas, whatever they are. It could be "migrants are increasing house prices", or "migrants keep fast food prices down", etc. At the end of the day it's a more complex system and it's very nuanced. But those things don't fit on a sign so you can't really have a proper discussion about it.

The point is that where any of the presidents elected will be able to solve this issue? I guess not, because skilled people all around the world are attracted towards the United States because of its high lifestyle and the most developed country in the world. Yeah, they can make things difficult for the migrants, but it is hard to stop migrants from coming and living in the US.

You may see the stance of both the parties on the immigrants and then vote for the one whom you think has a better vision on this issue. (if you see this major cause of US inflation)

[TwitchySeal]

The wall can only slow people down at best, I dislike the whole idea of immigration being seen as a great negative.  Like any commodity, labor has a cost to it and with a great rise it brings greater costs to the economy.  Quite ironically the immigrants are more often then not a benefactor to the country they seek to work in.  It is important for people to register properly and follow laws, that cannot be ignored but the wall is mostly a waste of time imo.  The desert itself is the biggest restriction and discouragement.

As usual, you guys resort to your tried and tested tactic. I never said that "immigration" is bad for the country. What I was implying is that "legal immigration" should be given preference over "illegal immigration". Millions of illegal aliens are allowed into the country every year, when hundreds of thousands of legal immigrants wait for 5 years or more waiting to get their visa. I am speaking against this discrimination. The American legal system and the Democrat party discriminates people who follow the laws of the land and actively encourage people who break it.

You should really educate yourself on the actual policies.

Here's a brief explainer on basically Bidens biggest move so far immigration wise.  Read this and then let me know if it makes any sense at all to claim Biden is for open borders: https://apnews.com/article/immigration-biden-border-title-42-mexico-asylum-be4e0b15b27adb9bede87b9bbefb798d

And before you spout off the right wing anti immigrant rhetoric, maybe consider directing a little empathy towards the people that have literally nothing and are fleeing for their lives instead of giving it all to the employed, financially stable people that have to wait for a visa.

When you're waiting in line to piss somewhere with a big crowd and someone runs up about to shit themselves - you let them go ahead of you.  Yes, it sucks you'll have to wait a little longer and you really do have to piss.  And no, it's not "fair".  And yes, sometimes people will pretend to be about to shit themselves just so they can cut the line, but we're all humans in the end, and sometimes humans suddenly have to shit.  So empathy comes easy and the right thing to do becomes the obvious thing to do.

With the border, empathy doesn't come as easy, and the fact that the people crossing look different than most of the people complaining about them only makes it harder.  But in the end we're all humans.

[nullama]

USA is not some nation that is trying some one race thing, they are filled with a million different races, people from all over the world go there. The logical differences is that USA is a place that accepts immigrants, in fact, every single year there are green card drawings that end up taking a certain amount of people (in thousands) to go live there if they want to, and that is the difference in the south of the wall understanding.

Instead of building a wall to keep people away, they could just put in entry points where you get the information of those people, put them in places like true immigrants, and make them live the USA life. I have a friend who did that to Netherlands, and immigrated, and it wasn't anything like this. Why try to build a wall, when you can build a door?

There are many countries that are made of migrants. Here's a map showing this, the darker the region, the more migrants there are.



You can see that the US is not the one with the most amount of migrants.

[Hispo]

USA is not some nation that is trying some one race thing, they are filled with a million different races, people from all over the world go there. The logical differences is that USA is a place that accepts immigrants, in fact, every single year there are green card drawings that end up taking a certain amount of people (in thousands) to go live there if they want to, and that is the difference in the south of the wall understanding.

Instead of building a wall to keep people away, they could just put in entry points where you get the information of those people, put them in places like true immigrants, and make them live the USA life. I have a friend who did that to Netherlands, and immigrated, and it wasn't anything like this. Why try to build a wall, when you can build a door?

There are many countries that are made of migrants. Here's a map showing this, the darker the region, the more migrants there are.



You can see that the US is not the one with the most amount of migrants.

I cannot blame anyone for having misconceptions on USA being the biggest destiny for both legal and illegal immigrants. If one watches the news and the host is talking about immigration, it is a 99% of chance they are either talking of USA or the European Union.

Also, it will always easier to build a wall instead building a door, specially if an important percentage of the country is against illegal immigration and has gone as far as suggesting measures which attempt against the human rights of those who seek asylum. Though, I won't deny there are very serious issues which have not been properly addressed , like human trafficking and the flow of fentanyl into USA.

I have no doubt in mind that immigration debate is going to intensify from Trumps speech as we get closer to election day, if he is not too busy talking about his problems with justice, that is.

[nullama]

~snip~
The point is that where any of the presidents elected will be able to solve this issue? I guess not, because skilled people all around the world are attracted towards the United States because of its high lifestyle and the most developed country in the world. Yeah, they can make things difficult for the migrants, but it is hard to stop migrants from coming and living in the US.

You may see the stance of both the parties on the immigrants and then vote for the one whom you think has a better vision on this issue. (if you see this major cause of US inflation)

The United States is not the most developed country in the world. That might have been around the nineties but in the last 30 or so years it has been declining.

Here's a graph that shows this:



And here is a table showing the top countries in human development index, the US is ranked at 21 out of 191, not even in the best 10% of the world:

[Sithara007]

There are many countries that are made of migrants. Here's a map showing this, the darker the region, the more migrants there are.



You can see that the US is not the one with the most amount of migrants.

Once again, attempt is being made to treat legal and illegal immigration at equal footing. If you look at the map, you will find that GCC nations such as Saudi Arabia and Kuwait do have a higher proportion of migrants to the population. But the plus point here is that all of them are legal migrants. Illegal immigration is a punishable offense in most of the countries (unlike the case in USA, where illegals are provided with funds from taxpayer money). This is an issue that is present only in the US/EU. And the only reason is lack of enforcement of laws by the left-wing.

[bbc.reporter]

Does anyone know the anonymous and famous trader who calls himself @GiganticRebirth on social media? According to Alan Turning, there are signs and similarities in his tweets and the tweets of Republican presidential nominee Vivek Ramaswamy.

It might only be a coincidence, however, I will share the tweets and leave it for all of you to speculate. The tweets include pictures and images from instagram, I cannot summarize them. It is much better to read them yourself.

https://twitter.com/herralanturing/status/1699793652330234232?s=12&t=fx2RmsbaS0qNJTJTdpNu2w

[nullama]

~snip~
Once again, attempt is being made to treat legal and illegal immigration at equal footing. If you look at the map, you will find that GCC nations such as Saudi Arabia and Kuwait do have a higher proportion of migrants to the population. But the plus point here is that all of them are legal migrants. Illegal immigration is a punishable offense in most of the countries (unlike the case in USA, where illegals are provided with funds from taxpayer money). This is an issue that is present only in the US/EU. And the only reason is lack of enforcement of laws by the left-wing.

I think illegal immigration is a problem in most popular countries, not only in the US/EU.

And people are being deported, for example:

"EU border agency deported record number of people in first half of 2021", source: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/29/eu-border-agency-frontex-deportation-record-number

[Sithara007]

I think illegal immigration is a problem in most popular countries, not only in the US/EU.

And people are being deported, for example:

"EU border agency deported record number of people in first half of 2021", source: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/29/eu-border-agency-frontex-deportation-record-number

Illegal immigration results from weak laws and political parties who support it for short-term electoral gain. The rules in USA and EU are very similar and it is very difficult to deport illegal aliens unless they commit crimes. We have a similar situation here in India, where the supreme court frequently blocks any attempt from the government to deport illegal immigrants (mostly from Bangladesh). On the other hand, countries such as Australia, Saudi Arabia and Japan doesn't have this issue, because the laws are enforced strictly. And this is also one of the reasons why these countries are having a lower crime rate compared to the USA.

[nullama]

~snip~
Illegal immigration results from weak laws and political parties who support it for short-term electoral gain. The rules in USA and EU are very similar and it is very difficult to deport illegal aliens unless they commit crimes. We have a similar situation here in India, where the supreme court frequently blocks any attempt from the government to deport illegal immigrants (mostly from Bangladesh). On the other hand, countries such as Australia, Saudi Arabia and Japan doesn't have this issue, because the laws are enforced strictly. And this is also one of the reasons why these countries are having a lower crime rate compared to the USA.

There's also a huge incentive for businesses to keep low paying workers in the country. It's probably not for the kind of their hearts that they keep illegal immigrants in the country.

Every restaurant/pub kitchen in the US is basically manned by someone from another country. Maybe some of those are paid a bit less than what they should be paid.

[Sithara007]

There's also a huge incentive for businesses to keep low paying workers in the country. It's probably not for the kind of their hearts that they keep illegal immigrants in the country.

Every restaurant/pub kitchen in the US is basically manned by someone from another country. Maybe some of those are paid a bit less than what they should be paid.

With minimum wages going up, and additional expenses like Mediclaim piling up on the employers, some of the businesses resort to employ illegal immigrants hoping that doing so will keep them afloat at least on a temporary basis. And they also know that there will be no legal repercussions for doing so. Most of the cities in the United States are ruled by Democrats and they turn a blind eye to different businesses employing illegal immigrants. But I am not sure how this will benefit the country in the long run.

[FanEagle]

You do not have to be a right wing nutjob to send illegal immigrants away, left can do that too, the point is to make sure that corruption is less in one party more than the other. What people do not understand is that we are given two choices by the media, left or right. This happens in most nations as well, not just USA, not just EU neither, you are not actually electing someone who is right or left, you are electing "someone".


This means that you need to check that person. So let's assume that Biden became Republican today, and Trump became Democrat, which was the case by the way, Trump was a registered democrat back in the day. Would that make your vote change? Would you vote Trump just because he became democrat? I think people should vote based on the person, and see who is less corrupt, not the part, not the ideas. A great leftist is better than a terrible right wing, a great right wing person is much better than a corrupt leftist.