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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 2013848 times)
NewLiberty
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December 17, 2014, 08:19:44 AM
 #18841

i find it very suspicious that Bitcoin popped up organically in 2009, right after the crisis.

Suspicious how? Satoshi's rhetoric (right down to the genesis block quote) was clearly directed right at the heart of the crisis. Whether that was really a motivation for the project or opportunistic marketing is unclear though.


suspicious in the sense of "fate".  or, as in, perfect timing. 

suspicious as in "a cash payment is a suspicious transaction"?


The project had been in the works for a long time...the design and plans were complete at least 4 years previous, but not any code then.  So my overwhelming emotion is one of gratitude rather than suspicion.

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December 17, 2014, 09:18:37 AM
 #18842

i find it very suspicious that Bitcoin popped up organically in 2009, right after the crisis.

Suspicious how? Satoshi's rhetoric (right down to the genesis block quote) was clearly directed right at the heart of the crisis. Whether that was really a motivation for the project or opportunistic marketing is unclear though.


suspicious in the sense of "fate".  or, as in, perfect timing. 

suspicious as in "a cash payment is a suspicious transaction"?


The project had been in the works for a long time...the design and plans were complete at least 4 years previous, but not any code then.  So my overwhelming emotion is one of gratitude rather than suspicion.

Yes absolutely. I  only said that figuratively. More as an indictment of what might be starting in the real capital markets.
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December 17, 2014, 09:27:44 AM
 #18843

yeah, Ripple and Stellar.  what the heck is that?  esp after Stellar contracted down to one node?

Don't forget that centralized systems are still thousands of times bigger than bitcoin. So there is a big market potentially even if the whole thing runs entirely on one node.

Yeah but the rally started on or near the time of the stellar fork and retrenchment to one node which should have been a huge indictment against their entire concept of consensus.
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December 17, 2014, 09:43:53 AM
 #18844

yeah, Ripple and Stellar.  what the heck is that?  esp after Stellar contracted down to one node?

Don't forget that centralized systems are still thousands of times bigger than bitcoin. So there is a big market potentially even if the whole thing runs entirely on one node.

Yeah but the rally started on or near the time of the stellar fork and retrenchment to one node which should have been a huge indictment against their entire concept of consensus.

What I'm saying is that decentralization might be irrelevant to their whole business model. Imagine Ripple can develop into something like Visa. Totally centralized but who cares. Market cap $160 billion.



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December 17, 2014, 10:14:35 AM
 #18845

yeah, Ripple and Stellar.  what the heck is that?  esp after Stellar contracted down to one node?

Don't forget that centralized systems are still thousands of times bigger than bitcoin. So there is a big market potentially even if the whole thing runs entirely on one node.

Yeah but the rally started on or near the time of the stellar fork and retrenchment to one node which should have been a huge indictment against their entire concept of consensus.

totally. The ripple concept in its current form died when Stellar forked ... this latest pump seems like a desperate attempt to get out by the insiders before it goes to its NAV, now proven to be worthless.

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December 17, 2014, 01:13:14 PM
 #18846

yeah, Ripple and Stellar.  what the heck is that?  esp after Stellar contracted down to one node?

Don't forget that centralized systems are still thousands of times bigger than bitcoin. So there is a big market potentially even if the whole thing runs entirely on one node.

Yeah but the rally started on or near the time of the stellar fork and retrenchment to one node which should have been a huge indictment against their entire concept of consensus.

totally. The ripple concept in its current form died when Stellar forked ... this latest pump seems like a desperate attempt to get out by the insiders before it goes to its NAV, now proven to be worthless.


i dont think they'll disappear. you could think of ripple as an analogy with macdonald. its plain shit, yet there is a lot of people going for it. hence once bitcoin to become mainstream (if ever, as i dont believe mainstream attention to be the key of bitcoin's long term success), ripple may play a role in the democratization of cryptocurrencies with traditional banking partners and their quite impressive business network. because masses are just dumb, twerking all around, and neither you or bitcoin will change this.

Non inultus premor
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December 17, 2014, 06:47:32 PM
 #18847

Ripple is basically a patch for the legacy banking system, improving upon payment networks such as ACH and SWIFT.  This may be viable for a while but the entire legacy banking system needs to be completely replaced IMO.


Counterfeit:  made in imitation of something else with intent to deceive:  merriam-webster
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December 17, 2014, 07:07:25 PM
 #18848

Brian Kelly on Ruble, Gold, UST and what comes next.

http://briankellycap.tumblr.com/post/105449023922/the-ruble-is-the-latest-battle-in-the-global
NewLiberty
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December 17, 2014, 08:15:07 PM
 #18849

Ripple is basically a patch for the legacy banking system, improving upon payment networks such as ACH and SWIFT.  This may be viable for a while but the entire legacy banking system needs to be completely replaced IMO.
They have a few centuries head start and are pretty well entrenched.  It is a longshot.

But just maybe the force is with us.

FREE MONEY1 Bitcoin for Silver and Gold NewLibertyDollar.com and now BITCOIN SPECIE (silver 1 ozt) shows value by QR
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cypherdoc
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December 17, 2014, 08:35:38 PM
 #18850

Ripple is basically a patch for the legacy banking system, improving upon payment networks such as ACH and SWIFT.  This may be viable for a while but the entire legacy banking system needs to be completely replaced IMO.
They have a few centuries head start and are pretty well entrenched.  It is a longshot.

But just maybe the force is with us.

i'm actually looking forward to the XboxOne even tho its for my high schooler and his friends.  do they even make Star Wars games for it?
NewLiberty
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December 17, 2014, 08:41:45 PM
 #18851

i'm actually looking forward to the XboxOne even tho its for my high schooler and his friends.  do they even make Star Wars games for it?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnaNYXVch8s

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smooth
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December 17, 2014, 09:23:38 PM
 #18852

Ripple is basically a patch for the legacy banking system, improving upon payment networks such as ACH and SWIFT.  This may be viable for a while but the entire legacy banking system needs to be completely replaced IMO.
They have a few centuries head start and are pretty well entrenched.  It is a longshot.

But just maybe the force is with us.

Exactly why I say it need not be decentralized to serve its intended and most useful purpose. In fact the collapse of decentralization might be a blessing for them. They can stop the wasted effort of trying to be bitcoin and focus on being an add on to banking.
cypherdoc
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December 17, 2014, 10:29:36 PM
 #18853

Ripple is basically a patch for the legacy banking system, improving upon payment networks such as ACH and SWIFT.  This may be viable for a while but the entire legacy banking system needs to be completely replaced IMO.
They have a few centuries head start and are pretty well entrenched.  It is a longshot.

But just maybe the force is with us.

Exactly why I say it need not be decentralized to serve its intended and most useful purpose. In fact the collapse of decentralization might be a blessing for them. They can stop the wasted effort of trying to be bitcoin and focus on being an add on to banking.


i hope you're right.  good riddance to them.  and stop pretending that they can decentralize a debt lending system.
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December 17, 2014, 11:34:20 PM
 #18854

Ripple is basically a patch for the legacy banking system, improving upon payment networks such as ACH and SWIFT.  This may be viable for a while but the entire legacy banking system needs to be completely replaced IMO.
They have a few centuries head start and are pretty well entrenched.  It is a longshot.

But just maybe the force is with us.

Exactly why I say it need not be decentralized to serve its intended and most useful purpose. In fact the collapse of decentralization might be a blessing for them. They can stop the wasted effort of trying to be bitcoin and focus on being an add on to banking.


i hope you're right.  good riddance to them.  and stop pretending that they can decentralize a debt lending system.

what's the value of a spam-prevention token (XRP) of a centralized debt-tracker?

PGP key molecular F9B70769 fingerprint 9CDD C0D3 20F8 279F 6BE0  3F39 FC49 2362 F9B7 0769
Erdogan
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December 18, 2014, 12:41:49 AM
 #18855

Bitcoin is small, so small, that I think the current low price could be explained with the fact that some holders, who otherwise would not cash out, have bought some christmas present for bitcoins (I know I did).

cypherdoc
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December 18, 2014, 12:52:52 AM
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There is a growing body of evidence that bigger government means slower growth of real GDP. Once the level of total government spending as a percentage of GDP reaches a tipping point, estimated to be from 15 percent to 25 percent of GDP, additional expansion crowds out private productive investment and slows economic growth. When government overreaches, economic freedom is diminished and private exchange opportunities are lost — that is, the range of choices open to individuals is restricted.

http://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/increasing-economic-growth-means-shrinking-size-scope-government?utm_content=buffereb64d&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

this is what i mean by "Black Hole Shit" and it's not lookin good:

brg444
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December 18, 2014, 01:07:46 AM
 #18857

I'm anxious to hear about the revised Lawsky regulations tomorrow.

Would I prefer they don't exist? Of course, but I expect they will be significantly "softer" than the original submission and this is certainly something that should bring some much needed confidence to this market.

Obviously they will not matter in the long run but I expect they will have a positive effect in the short to medium term. Lawsky was quoted in an interview recently as saying he expects Wall Street "will rush into this" when the field is properly regulated and as much as everyone dislike the idea of "regulating" Bitcoin I am very much in favor of getting cozy with Wall Street.

Only once they swallow the pill will they realise it is a poison that will kill them from the inside.

"I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010
marcus_of_augustus
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December 18, 2014, 01:52:38 AM
 #18858

Quote
There is a growing body of evidence that bigger government means slower growth of real GDP. Once the level of total government spending as a percentage of GDP reaches a tipping point, estimated to be from 15 percent to 25 percent of GDP, additional expansion crowds out private productive investment and slows economic growth. When government overreaches, economic freedom is diminished and private exchange opportunities are lost — that is, the range of choices open to individuals is restricted.

This is hardly a revelation, most of the communist economic experiements of the last century have demonstrated this is abundance (well total lack of abundance). The question I suppose is how much communism is too much? 15%, 30%, clearly 100% is fatal, and anything more than 50% is probably also terminally toxic. Optimally operating economies seem to have around 5-10% govt. share of GDP but it also depends on strong justice and legal systems for protection of individual freedoms.

rocks
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December 18, 2014, 02:15:27 AM
 #18859

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There is a growing body of evidence that bigger government means slower growth of real GDP. Once the level of total government spending as a percentage of GDP reaches a tipping point, estimated to be from 15 percent to 25 percent of GDP, additional expansion crowds out private productive investment and slows economic growth. When government overreaches, economic freedom is diminished and private exchange opportunities are lost — that is, the range of choices open to individuals is restricted.

This is hardly a revelation, most of the communist economic experiements of the last century have demonstrated this is abundance (well total lack of abundance). The question I suppose is how much communism is too much? 15%, 30%, clearly 100% is fatal, and anything more than 50% is probably also terminally toxic. Optimally operating economies seem to have around 5-10% govt. share of GDP but it also depends on strong justice and legal systems for protection of individual freedoms.

An open question is what is considered to be government spending or government control of an economy. What we consider government spending is usually limited to what the government directly does (DOD, roads, courts, prisons, K-12 ED, NASA, etc). But the government also indirectly controls (and removes from free market dynamics) large swaths of the economy, such as healthcare, universities, regulated FED supported banks, etc.

If you consider government to consist of both what it directly and indirectly controls, then the US government past 50% of the economy a while ago.
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December 18, 2014, 02:17:35 AM
 #18860

The question I suppose is how much communism is too much? 15%, 30%, clearly 100% is fatal, and anything more than 50% is probably also terminally toxic.
How much cancer is terminal?

Are just a few couple metastatic cells ok?
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