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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 2008886 times)
msin
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December 15, 2014, 07:10:29 PM
 #18741

Every person who sells their productivity for Bitcoin and does not immediately spend what they earn is contributing to that ~$1.3 million/day requirement.

This will be the key to a major price spike in my opinion.  The more people are paid in BTC for services, employment, etc. the higher the price of BTC will go.
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December 15, 2014, 07:42:45 PM
 #18742

The more people are paid in BTC for services, employment, etc. the higher the price of BTC will go.
They have to be paid in BTC, and they have to save in BTC.

Otherwise it won't work.
Jungian
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December 15, 2014, 07:48:13 PM
 #18743

The more people are paid in BTC for services, employment, etc. the higher the price of BTC will go.
They have to be paid in BTC, and they have to save in BTC.

Otherwise it won't work.

Not necessarily - They have to be paid in BTC thus causing "releasing" of coins from certain individuals (like yourself) for goods and services, and keep the BTC OR sell into the hands of wealthy USD holders buying the BTC from the Vendors/3rd Party providers and them saving.

We are in the transfer of wealth stage - but its being done quietly and off the books.  We wont see increase in price unless a true ETF hits, or we get within 6-8 months of halving.  

Sit back relax and enjoy the ride.

I would also tend to believe they intend to save some of the money and not spend ALL off it. The upside to have your whole paycheck in BTC but also spend all of it every month seems like a bad trade to me.

I think Monero (XMR) is very interesting.
https://moneroeconomy.com/faq/why-monero-matters
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December 15, 2014, 08:06:11 PM
 #18744

The more people are paid in BTC for services, employment, etc. the higher the price of BTC will go.
They have to be paid in BTC, and they have to save in BTC.

Otherwise it won't work.

Not necessarily - They have to be paid in BTC thus causing "releasing" of coins from certain individuals (like yourself) for goods and services, and keep the BTC OR sell into the hands of wealthy USD holders buying the BTC from the Vendors/3rd Party providers and them saving.

We are in the transfer of wealth stage - but its being done quietly and off the books.  We wont see increase in price unless a true ETF hits, or we get within 6-8 months of halving.  

Sit back relax and enjoy the ride.

I'm generally in this camp, but I don't think many understand what's going to happen at halving, there is even a reasonable probability that Bitcoin may look dead 6 months after halving and then explode into its new price energy zone.

While I give credit to the velocity of money theory that creates value this is an end game occurrence. At the moment I think we have an equilibrium between mining investment and profit taking. If too many new coins are saved we'll see it reflected in an increase in difficulty driven by price, this could cause a rush to get into Bitcoin along with many other triggers like an ETF of some new "banking innovation"

I think the total traded coins are quite small and wealth transfer is happening but it's not a competitive environment, rather new owners are treading with caution.

Thank me in Bits 12MwnzxtprG2mHm3rKdgi7NmJKCypsMMQw
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December 15, 2014, 08:13:02 PM
 #18745

Every person who sells their productivity for Bitcoin and does not immediately spend what they earn is contributing to that ~$1.3 million/day requirement.

This will be the key to a major price spike in my opinion.  The more people are paid in BTC for services, employment, etc. the higher the price of BTC will go.

Miners hoard a lot of coins too. Bitcoin companies accumulate bitcoins and their owners do so as well while they pay in bitcoins for time and services.

cypherdoc
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December 15, 2014, 08:15:47 PM
 #18746

geez, gold and gold stocks getting bitch slapped.  darn it!  i wanted more rally to reload ZSL and DZZ! Angry
cypherdoc
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December 15, 2014, 08:26:01 PM
 #18747

this is a really bad sign:

Melbustus
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December 15, 2014, 09:47:22 PM
 #18748

Adam Ludwin at Chain.com with some mostly spot-on thoughts:


Quote
[miners produce] by design, a secure financial network: one which is open, decentralized, programmable, and very inexpensive to use.


Quote
Without speculators, there would be no bitcoin.  They provide miners, applications, and other participants with liquidity.  If you have bought or sold bitcoin as a speculator, you have helped enable the emerging ecosystem...


Quote
Whether volatility increases or decreases, one thing is likely to be true: it won’t matter as much going forward as people think.


http://blog.chain.com/post/105287860141/why-bitcoin-apps-and-bitcoin-speculators-need-each


So Xapo, and now Chain, make my list of new VC-backed bitcoin companies with seasoned leadership who *actually* understand bitcoin.

Bitcoin is the first monetary system to credibly offer perfect information to all economic participants.
Cryptoasset rankings and metrics for investors: http://onchainfx.com
bambou
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December 15, 2014, 09:56:34 PM
 #18749

this is a really bad sign:



does that means gold mining is not profitable anymore? mining bitcoin maybe?

Non inultus premor
cypherdoc
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December 15, 2014, 10:08:21 PM
 #18750

this is a really bad sign:



does that means gold mining is not profitable anymore? mining bitcoin maybe?

it means gold's SOV function days are numbered.
Wekkel
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December 15, 2014, 10:21:36 PM
 #18751

it means gold's SOV function days are numbered.

Or paper gold's SOV function  Roll Eyes

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cypherdoc
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December 15, 2014, 10:24:12 PM
 #18752

it means gold's SOV function days are numbered.

Or paper gold's SOV function  Roll Eyes

the paper gold was the entire reason for the price ramp in the first place.  Roll Eyes
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December 15, 2014, 10:25:42 PM
 #18753

this is the Elizabeth Warren i know from 2008:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJpTxONxvoo
msin
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December 15, 2014, 10:57:40 PM
 #18754

The more people are paid in BTC for services, employment, etc. the higher the price of BTC will go.
They have to be paid in BTC, and they have to save in BTC.

Otherwise it won't work.

Yes, exactly, if they are paid in BTC, save their BTC, it will create an extremely scarce market.
smooth
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December 15, 2014, 11:07:05 PM
 #18755

At ~3600 BTC/day, the current price of ~$350 / BTC requires ~$1.3 million of new capital (money, energy for hashing, etc) to enter the system.
Your list of capital types should include products and services.

Every person who sells their productivity for Bitcoin and does not immediately spend what they earn is contributing to that ~$1.3 million/day requirement.

The concept I like to focus on is accumulation (of holding). Every bit of that new 25 BTC mined every 10 minutes has to find a home with someone willing to hold it. It doesn't really matter if that comes from miners holding it, investors buying it, or people trading goods or services and holding the coins they receive. In reality all of these play a role, and they all involve exchange of other resources for coins, but we can be sure that aggregate accumulation is ~$1.3m per day.

It is indeed helpful to price discovery and liquidity that this forces a constant market clearing process.  It is also no surprise that the scam altcoin market has moved to ICOs and proof-of-stake which lack such a process.

smooth
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December 15, 2014, 11:17:22 PM
 #18756

it means gold's SOV function days are numbered.

Or paper gold's SOV function  Roll Eyes

Correct. Paper gold has absolutely no advantages over BTC. At least physical gold you might imagine retains value if there is a catastrophic failure of technology (solar flare, communications infrastructure brought down hard by hacking, etc.), breakdown of rule of law (arguably has already happened), etc. Paper gold, forget it.
sgbett
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December 16, 2014, 12:27:30 AM
 #18757

The more people are paid in BTC for services, employment, etc. the higher the price of BTC will go.
They have to be paid in BTC, and they have to save in BTC.

Otherwise it won't work.

Yes, exactly, if they are paid in BTC, save their BTC, it will create an extremely scarce market.

If I can dodge a LambShop for a second (becoming increasingly rabid of late I notice), this is exactly what all the 'permabulls' see as being almost inevitable. Eventually everything will be in BTC. Then the USD/BTC price becomes irrelevant, apart from roughly what it was just before everyone went full crypto.

5 years ago nobody could even imagine a world where money was anything other than what it currently was. Fast forward and there is a massive groundswell of people who now see what it could be.

You either see it and panic you are too late, or you don't see it and think you can make a few "oldbucks" off the rubes by out-trading them.

Call me a rube, I'm going all the way. Once it resumes its uptrend above the last ATH I'll skim as a hedge (even though my gut tells me not to bother, my math tells me I should) [thats my "full disclosure"]

Still one the most insanely +EV binary bets I have ever come across.  

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msin
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December 16, 2014, 12:42:59 AM
 #18758

The more people are paid in BTC for services, employment, etc. the higher the price of BTC will go.
They have to be paid in BTC, and they have to save in BTC.

Otherwise it won't work.

Yes, exactly, if they are paid in BTC, save their BTC, it will create an extremely scarce market.

If I can dodge a LambShop for a second (becoming increasingly rabid of late I notice), this is exactly what all the 'permabulls' see as being almost inevitable. Eventually everything will be in BTC. Then the USD/BTC price becomes irrelevant, apart from roughly what it was just before everyone went full crypto.

5 years ago nobody could even imagine a world where money was anything other than what it currently was. Fast forward and there is a massive groundswell of people who now see what it could be.

You either see it and panic you are too late, or you don't see it and think you can make a few "oldbucks" off the rubes by out-trading them.

Call me a rube, I'm going all the way. Once it resumes its uptrend above the last ATH I'll skim as a hedge (even though my gut tells me not to bother, my math tells me I should) [thats my "full disclosure"]

Still one the most insanely +EV binary bets I have ever come across.  

I agree, although I don't know if it's inevitable.  When you start to see companies paying their employees in BTC, then you should really hold on to your precious BTC. 
cypherdoc
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December 16, 2014, 02:39:39 AM
 #18759

what's happening in Russia is fascinating:



going Bitcoin could make some sense to take the pressure off:



http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/16/upshot/vladimir-putin-vs-the-currency-markets-what-to-know-about-the-rubles-collapse.html?_r=0&abt=0002&abg=1
cypherdoc
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December 16, 2014, 02:41:33 AM
 #18760

where is BTC-e? breaking out:

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