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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 1808469 times)
NewLiberty
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December 07, 2014, 03:33:38 PM
 #18581




This is gonna be fun... When you buy one of his books on his site, you can get a "custom inscription" which it sounds like Jim personally hand-writes on the book. So I'll be buying one with a personal inscription regarding bitcoin that'll be utterly painful for Jim to write.

I'm taking suggestions. It can be up to 150 words.

Rickards has a fairly rational position on Bitcoin.
...


I disagree:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpYlc5oftM0

https://twitter.com/JamesGRickards/status/533057485264134144

^ He's overly negative and seems to be deliberately on the attack.

In fact, I wouldn't be all that surprised if his acceptance of bitcoin in his store was in the hopes that he would NOT see very many bitcoin sales just so that he could rant about measly volume after the holidays.
I think you just proved my point.  (absenting your inferring the invidious motives, for which you have no evidence yet)
I'd maintain that this is a fairly rational position.

His criticisms in this piece are essentially:
1) We haven't seen it during an economic downturn.
2) Government's are causing problems for it.
Both are irrefutably true.

We don't see these as insurmountable barriers, however most people do.
The market has bitcoin currently priced at about a 1% chance of success or less at its current valuations.
We are betting on the long-shot to win, and while I think we are in the right, it is rational to bet against us.

More importantly, if we do not recognize the valid criticisms against our position, we are both (a) insane and (b) unable to adequately overcome them.

As for Rickards, if we make it through the coming down cycles and can navigate the government's attacks, he will have no criticisms remaining and we should expect he would adopt.  Of course that could put him well outside the "early adopter" realm.  Anyone who owns bitcoin now (or within the next year) would be an early adopter.  

In common technology parlance, the early adopters are the first 2.5% of the users.  We are at less than 1% of potential users today, there is a long way to go.

Check out this:
https://coinreport.net/james-rickards-takes-bitcoin/

His position is highly nuanced.

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December 07, 2014, 03:48:19 PM
 #18582

"In common technology parlance, the early adopters are the first 2.5% of the users.  We are at less than 1% of potential users today, there is a long way to go."

How can you say that, with 13 from 21 million coins (roughly) already mined?

The last 24 hours were critical but the next 24 hours are criticaller!
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December 07, 2014, 04:10:23 PM
 #18583

"In common technology parlance, the early adopters are the first 2.5% of the users.  We are at less than 1% of potential users today, there is a long way to go."

How can you say that, with 13 from 21 million coins (roughly) already mined?

Coins are not users.

FREE MONEY1 Bitcoin for Silver and Gold NewLibertyDollar.com and now BITCOIN SPECIE (silver 1 ozt) shows value by QR
Bulk premiums as low as .0012 BTC "BETTER, MORE COLLECTIBLE, AND CHEAPER THAN SILVER EAGLES" 1Free of Government
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December 07, 2014, 04:14:45 PM
 #18584




This is gonna be fun... When you buy one of his books on his site, you can get a "custom inscription" which it sounds like Jim personally hand-writes on the book. So I'll be buying one with a personal inscription regarding bitcoin that'll be utterly painful for Jim to write.

I'm taking suggestions. It can be up to 150 words.

Rickards has a fairly rational position on Bitcoin.
...


I disagree:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpYlc5oftM0

https://twitter.com/JamesGRickards/status/533057485264134144

^ He's overly negative and seems to be deliberately on the attack.

In fact, I wouldn't be all that surprised if his acceptance of bitcoin in his store was in the hopes that he would NOT see very many bitcoin sales just so that he could rant about measly volume after the holidays.
I think you just proved my point.  (absenting your inferring the invidious motives, for which you have no evidence yet)
I'd maintain that this is a fairly rational position.

His criticisms in this piece are essentially:
1) We haven't seen it during an economic downturn.
2) Government's are causing problems for it.
Both are irrefutably true.

We don't see these as insurmountable barriers, however most people do.
The market has bitcoin currently priced at about a 1% chance of success or less at its current valuations.
We are betting on the long-shot to win, and while I think we are in the right, it is rational to bet against us.

More importantly, if we do not recognize the valid criticisms against our position, we are both (a) insane and (b) unable to adequately overcome them.

As for Rickards, if we make it through the coming down cycles and can navigate the government's attacks, he will have no criticisms remaining and we should expect he would adopt.  Of course that could put him well outside the "early adopter" realm.  Anyone who owns bitcoin now (or within the next year) would be an early adopter.  

In common technology parlance, the early adopters are the first 2.5% of the users.  We are at less than 1% of potential users today, there is a long way to go.

Check out this:
https://coinreport.net/james-rickards-takes-bitcoin/

His position is highly nuanced.

I tend to agree. Plenty of experience from within the financial system and working with government, I hope his reading of govt reactions are wrong (meaning btc gets recognised on its merit as it matures or because it becomes a beacon of light in a shitstorm). His early statements on btc were awful, uninformed, fearmongering, but I think he is coming around; from ponzi pyramid scheme to accepting it on his website.

Funny thing with all these gold guys who promote Bitcoin backed by Gold - I feel that is basically giving btc a massive compliment (even though the notion is ridiculous)

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December 07, 2014, 04:51:19 PM
 #18585




This is gonna be fun... When you buy one of his books on his site, you can get a "custom inscription" which it sounds like Jim personally hand-writes on the book. So I'll be buying one with a personal inscription regarding bitcoin that'll be utterly painful for Jim to write.

I'm taking suggestions. It can be up to 150 words.

Rickards has a fairly rational position on Bitcoin.
...


I disagree:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpYlc5oftM0

https://twitter.com/JamesGRickards/status/533057485264134144

^ He's overly negative and seems to be deliberately on the attack.

In fact, I wouldn't be all that surprised if his acceptance of bitcoin in his store was in the hopes that he would NOT see very many bitcoin sales just so that he could rant about measly volume after the holidays.
I think you just proved my point.  (absenting your inferring the invidious motives, for which you have no evidence yet)
I'd maintain that this is a fairly rational position.

His criticisms in this piece are essentially:
1) We haven't seen it during an economic downturn.
2) Government's are causing problems for it.
Both are irrefutably true.

We don't see these as insurmountable barriers, however most people do.
The market has bitcoin currently priced at about a 1% chance of success or less at its current valuations.
We are betting on the long-shot to win, and while I think we are in the right, it is rational to bet against us.

More importantly, if we do not recognize the valid criticisms against our position, we are both (a) insane and (b) unable to adequately overcome them.

As for Rickards, if we make it through the coming down cycles and can navigate the government's attacks, he will have no criticisms remaining and we should expect he would adopt.  Of course that could put him well outside the "early adopter" realm.  Anyone who owns bitcoin now (or within the next year) would be an early adopter.  

In common technology parlance, the early adopters are the first 2.5% of the users.  We are at less than 1% of potential users today, there is a long way to go.

Check out this:
https://coinreport.net/james-rickards-takes-bitcoin/

His position is highly nuanced.

I tend to agree. Plenty of experience from within the financial system and working with government, I hope his reading of govt reactions are wrong (meaning btc gets recognised on its merit as it matures or because it becomes a beacon of light in a shitstorm). His early statements on btc were awful, uninformed, fearmongering, but I think he is coming around; from ponzi pyramid scheme to accepting it on his website.

Funny thing with all these gold guys who promote Bitcoin backed by Gold - I feel that is basically giving btc a massive compliment (even though the notion is ridiculous)



And that link to gold statement shows that he is not there yet.
NewLiberty
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December 07, 2014, 05:06:34 PM
 #18586


Funny thing with all these gold guys who promote Bitcoin backed by Gold - I feel that is basically giving btc a massive compliment (even though the notion is ridiculous)

And that link to gold statement shows that he is not there yet.


Yes, as hilarious as it is, it is essentially a statement that it is a better ledger than anything that has come before.

Frankly those of us that buy and sell gold for bitcoin are essentially backing bitcoin with gold already. 
Backing it with alpaca socks is also good though.

FREE MONEY1 Bitcoin for Silver and Gold NewLibertyDollar.com and now BITCOIN SPECIE (silver 1 ozt) shows value by QR
Bulk premiums as low as .0012 BTC "BETTER, MORE COLLECTIBLE, AND CHEAPER THAN SILVER EAGLES" 1Free of Government
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December 07, 2014, 08:15:24 PM
 #18587


Funny thing with all these gold guys who promote Bitcoin backed by Gold - I feel that is basically giving btc a massive compliment (even though the notion is ridiculous)

And that link to gold statement shows that he is not there yet.


I think it is fine to give a break to people who take an intermediate position on Bitcoin. There is always an evolution in the thinking of an individual, and that is the learning process. There is also the very human temptation to think of ways something can be improved, without fully understanding it. We have seen enough of that on bitcointalk.

It is much better that someone accepts Bitcoin as a technological breakthrough, but thinks it needs to be formally "backed", than becoming another butthurt buttcoiner.

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December 07, 2014, 09:02:43 PM
 #18588




This is gonna be fun... When you buy one of his books on his site, you can get a "custom inscription" which it sounds like Jim personally hand-writes on the book. So I'll be buying one with a personal inscription regarding bitcoin that'll be utterly painful for Jim to write.

I'm taking suggestions. It can be up to 150 words.

Rickards has a fairly rational position on Bitcoin.
...


I disagree:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpYlc5oftM0

https://twitter.com/JamesGRickards/status/533057485264134144

^ He's overly negative and seems to be deliberately on the attack.

In fact, I wouldn't be all that surprised if his acceptance of bitcoin in his store was in the hopes that he would NOT see very many bitcoin sales just so that he could rant about measly volume after the holidays.
I think you just proved my point.  (absenting your inferring the invidious motives, for which you have no evidence yet)
I'd maintain that this is a fairly rational position.

His criticisms in this piece are essentially:
1) We haven't seen it during an economic downturn.
2) Government's are causing problems for it.
Both are irrefutably true.


Agree that those are valid criticisms, but did you catch where he called bitcoin a "Neanderthal" currency that will "go extinct the way Neanderthals did"?

In any event, most of his current position seems to be a regurgitation of the fashionable ignorance of the day; ie: "the tech is cool, the currency is not". While I agree that that's better than being an outright hater screaming Ponzi or tulips, in Rickard's case, it still seems like he's in attack mode to me (especially in concert with his shameless zero-evidence ISIS remark), despite the supposed "nuance" of his stance.



We don't see these as insurmountable barriers, however most people do.
The market has bitcoin currently priced at about a 1% chance of success or less at its current valuations.
We are betting on the long-shot to win, and while I think we are in the right, it is rational to bet against us.

More importantly, if we do not recognize the valid criticisms against our position, we are both (a) insane and (b) unable to adequately overcome them.


Agreed.




As for Rickards, if we make it through the coming down cycles and can navigate the government's attacks, he will have no criticisms remaining and we should expect he would adopt.  Of course that could put him well outside the "early adopter" realm.  Anyone who owns bitcoin now (or within the next year) would be an early adopter.  

In common technology parlance, the early adopters are the first 2.5% of the users.  We are at less than 1% of potential users today, there is a long way to go.

Check out this:
https://coinreport.net/james-rickards-takes-bitcoin/

His position is highly nuanced.


We'll see how his nuance evolves.

Bitcoin is the first monetary system to credibly offer perfect information to all economic participants.
But Bitcointalk & /r/bitcoin are heavily censored. bitco.in/forum, forum.bitcoin.com, and /r/btc are open.
Best info on Casascius coins: http://spotcoins.com/casascius
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December 07, 2014, 09:18:03 PM
 #18589


The Internet is on Fire | Mikko Hypponen | TEDxBrussels

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKe-aO44R7k&app=desktop

great talk. Thanks for posting.


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December 07, 2014, 09:19:46 PM
 #18590

"In common technology parlance, the early adopters are the first 2.5% of the users.  We are at less than 1% of potential users today, there is a long way to go."

How can you say that, with 13 from 21 million coins (roughly) already mined?

I guess it means that the early adopter crowd has (at least potentially) more bitcoins then the rest.

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December 07, 2014, 09:33:22 PM
 #18591


Funny thing with all these gold guys who promote Bitcoin backed by Gold - I feel that is basically giving btc a massive compliment (even though the notion is ridiculous)

And that link to gold statement shows that he is not there yet.


Yes, as hilarious as it is, it is essentially a statement that it is a better ledger than anything that has come before.

Frankly those of us that buy and sell gold for bitcoin are essentially backing bitcoin with gold already. 
Backing it with alpaca socks is also good though.

I'm not sure that's a good idea... I'm offering 2 pairs for redemption, let's see how that goes.

Joke aside. I think the ridiculous call for gold-backing of bitcoin shows us a couple of things:

  • The metal-heads are under pressure to have a position on crypto
  • outright rejection doesn't cut it any more
  • blatant attack doesn't cut it any more (Peter Schiff: "bitcoin is worthless because you can divide a bitcoin and then you have 2 bitcoins", lol)
  • so they try 'embrace and extend' or 'cherrypicking' aproaches (hence the gold-backing idea)
  • those dudes are extremely encumbered by the mountains of metal they sit on (maybe it will turn out the metal is actually sitting on them and locking them down)

I'm still waiting for:

  • they accumulate
  • they recommend

I'm not sure what stands in the way: inertia? fear? lack of understanding?

but hey: maybe they're the smart ones and we're the idiots, right? ;-)

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December 07, 2014, 09:42:37 PM
 #18592

"In common technology parlance, the early adopters are the first 2.5% of the users.  We are at less than 1% of potential users today, there is a long way to go."

How can you say that, with 13 from 21 million coins (roughly) already mined?

I guess it means that the early adopter crowd has (at least potentially) more bitcoins then the rest.


15,300 addresses own 67% of bitcoins
and 119,000 addresses own 94% of bitcoins

https://bitinfocharts.com/top-100-richest-bitcoin-addresses.html

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December 07, 2014, 11:07:39 PM
 #18593

http://www.coindesk.com/firstmark-director-bitcoin-needs-entrepreneurs-understand-money/
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December 08, 2014, 05:40:42 AM
 #18594

Lol:

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December 08, 2014, 06:36:14 AM
 #18595

Damn, gold silver bitcoin & many more assets will be forced to crash well into 2015... All the selling this year was from insiders who know this, good luck to all!
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December 08, 2014, 06:38:02 AM
 #18596

Damn, gold silver bitcoin & many more assets will be forced to crash well into 2015... All the selling this year was from insiders who know this, good luck to all!
Sweet this means its time to buy
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December 08, 2014, 06:38:52 AM
 #18597

I'm still waiting for:

  • they accumulate
  • they recommend

I'm not sure what stands in the way: inertia? fear? lack of understanding?

but hey: maybe they're the smart ones and we're the idiots, right? ;-)

From those pro finance guys, I don't expect them to recommend until they are sure they are done accumulating.
Both can be smart, and have differing risk tolerances.
Fundamentally, I think we are on the right side of history, but I also recognize that it is going to take a lot of our work to provemake that true.
There are a lot of folks trying to change things in different directions and we really don't know how that will play out.

And at the end of the day it is easier to change a protocol than it is to change an element on the periodic chart.

FREE MONEY1 Bitcoin for Silver and Gold NewLibertyDollar.com and now BITCOIN SPECIE (silver 1 ozt) shows value by QR
Bulk premiums as low as .0012 BTC "BETTER, MORE COLLECTIBLE, AND CHEAPER THAN SILVER EAGLES" 1Free of Government
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December 08, 2014, 06:40:35 AM
 #18598

I'm still waiting for:

  • they accumulate
  • they recommend

I'm not sure what stands in the way: inertia? fear? lack of understanding?

but hey: maybe they're the smart ones and we're the idiots, right? ;-)

From those pro finance guys, I don't expect them to recommend until they are sure they are done accumulating.
Both can be smart, and have differing risk tolerances.
Fundamentally, I think we are on the right side of history, but I also recognize that it is going to take a lot of our work to provemake that true.
There are a lot of folks trying to change things in different directions and we really don't know how that will play out.

And at the end of the day it is easier to change a protocol than it is to change an element on the periodic chart.
How about they fake ban? Then they revoke that claim?
China then russia next
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December 08, 2014, 10:49:19 AM
 #18599

This would have never happened a year ago:

https://twitter.com/JustusRanvier/status/541431742578434048

I've been traveling a lot thanks to the coin and I have experiences like this surprisingly often. I was stuck in Stockholm on a flight from Latvia to the USA (jumped a train to Copenhagen rather than wait for the five day flight day courtesy of Norwegian but that's another story), and while we were waiting in a huge line trying to get into our free hotel for the evening I was talking about bitcoin to a young finance guy living in NYC. A guy in front of me on the line heard us and turned around saying either he lost money in gox due to the collapse or had traded poorly and lost that way.

A few days ago in Mumbai at a Bollywood movie premiere I was talking to one of the directors and he said bitcoin had been very useful for him...

Let us just say that lots of people around the world loved Silk Road.

These are random interactions and of course do not include the many meetings with the true bitcoin faithful.

Gotta say, I love it. Makes me happy when I see the cryptoanarchist dreams of the 90s coming true.

This sort of stuff can be surreal, as all of you know we started so small with dreams. Reminds me of some quote saying the great events of life are not accompanied by a fanfare of trumpets like in the movies. But I find such simple coincidences amazing. We are part of something big. Smiley

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December 08, 2014, 01:52:13 PM
 #18600

Agree that those are valid criticisms, but did you catch where he called bitcoin a "Neanderthal" currency that will "go extinct the way Neanderthals did"?

I don't know if he (or you) knows much about the "extinction" of neanderthals.  Unless you are purebred African, you have neanderthal DNA.  Most Europeans and Asians have between 1-4% neanderthal.  It tends to lend a strong hybrid vigor, longer life is a result.  Neanderthals disappeared because they became part of everyone that ventured out.  They disappeared through love, interbreeding, not so much through war.  I am not entirely sure "extinction" is the proper term.

If bitcoin becomes part of everything, it will "go extinct in the way that neanderthals did".  So that quote is somewhat sublime, but I don't know if it is intentional.

FREE MONEY1 Bitcoin for Silver and Gold NewLibertyDollar.com and now BITCOIN SPECIE (silver 1 ozt) shows value by QR
Bulk premiums as low as .0012 BTC "BETTER, MORE COLLECTIBLE, AND CHEAPER THAN SILVER EAGLES" 1Free of Government
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