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Question: Will you support Gavin's new block size limit hard fork of 8MB by January 1, 2016 then doubling every 2 years?
1.  yes
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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 1805823 times)
smooth
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December 17, 2014, 09:23:38 PM
 #18881

Ripple is basically a patch for the legacy banking system, improving upon payment networks such as ACH and SWIFT.  This may be viable for a while but the entire legacy banking system needs to be completely replaced IMO.
They have a few centuries head start and are pretty well entrenched.  It is a longshot.

But just maybe the force is with us.

Exactly why I say it need not be decentralized to serve its intended and most useful purpose. In fact the collapse of decentralization might be a blessing for them. They can stop the wasted effort of trying to be bitcoin and focus on being an add on to banking.
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December 17, 2014, 10:29:36 PM
 #18882

Ripple is basically a patch for the legacy banking system, improving upon payment networks such as ACH and SWIFT.  This may be viable for a while but the entire legacy banking system needs to be completely replaced IMO.
They have a few centuries head start and are pretty well entrenched.  It is a longshot.

But just maybe the force is with us.

Exactly why I say it need not be decentralized to serve its intended and most useful purpose. In fact the collapse of decentralization might be a blessing for them. They can stop the wasted effort of trying to be bitcoin and focus on being an add on to banking.


i hope you're right.  good riddance to them.  and stop pretending that they can decentralize a debt lending system.
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December 17, 2014, 11:34:20 PM
 #18883

Ripple is basically a patch for the legacy banking system, improving upon payment networks such as ACH and SWIFT.  This may be viable for a while but the entire legacy banking system needs to be completely replaced IMO.
They have a few centuries head start and are pretty well entrenched.  It is a longshot.

But just maybe the force is with us.

Exactly why I say it need not be decentralized to serve its intended and most useful purpose. In fact the collapse of decentralization might be a blessing for them. They can stop the wasted effort of trying to be bitcoin and focus on being an add on to banking.


i hope you're right.  good riddance to them.  and stop pretending that they can decentralize a debt lending system.

what's the value of a spam-prevention token (XRP) of a centralized debt-tracker?

PGP key molecular F9B70769 fingerprint 9CDD C0D3 20F8 279F 6BE0  3F39 FC49 2362 F9B7 0769
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December 18, 2014, 12:41:49 AM
 #18884

Bitcoin is small, so small, that I think the current low price could be explained with the fact that some holders, who otherwise would not cash out, have bought some christmas present for bitcoins (I know I did).
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December 18, 2014, 12:52:52 AM
 #18885

There is a growing body of evidence that bigger government means slower growth of real GDP. Once the level of total government spending as a percentage of GDP reaches a tipping point, estimated to be from 15 percent to 25 percent of GDP, additional expansion crowds out private productive investment and slows economic growth. When government overreaches, economic freedom is diminished and private exchange opportunities are lost — that is, the range of choices open to individuals is restricted.

http://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/increasing-economic-growth-means-shrinking-size-scope-government?utm_content=buffereb64d&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

this is what i mean by "Black Hole Shit" and it's not lookin good:

brg444
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December 18, 2014, 01:07:46 AM
 #18886

I'm anxious to hear about the revised Lawsky regulations tomorrow.

Would I prefer they don't exist? Of course, but I expect they will be significantly "softer" than the original submission and this is certainly something that should bring some much needed confidence to this market.

Obviously they will not matter in the long run but I expect they will have a positive effect in the short to medium term. Lawsky was quoted in an interview recently as saying he expects Wall Street "will rush into this" when the field is properly regulated and as much as everyone dislike the idea of "regulating" Bitcoin I am very much in favor of getting cozy with Wall Street.

Only once they swallow the pill will they realise it is a poison that will kill them from the inside.

"I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010
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December 18, 2014, 01:52:38 AM
 #18887

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There is a growing body of evidence that bigger government means slower growth of real GDP. Once the level of total government spending as a percentage of GDP reaches a tipping point, estimated to be from 15 percent to 25 percent of GDP, additional expansion crowds out private productive investment and slows economic growth. When government overreaches, economic freedom is diminished and private exchange opportunities are lost — that is, the range of choices open to individuals is restricted.

This is hardly a revelation, most of the communist economic experiements of the last century have demonstrated this is abundance (well total lack of abundance). The question I suppose is how much communism is too much? 15%, 30%, clearly 100% is fatal, and anything more than 50% is probably also terminally toxic. Optimally operating economies seem to have around 5-10% govt. share of GDP but it also depends on strong justice and legal systems for protection of individual freedoms.

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December 18, 2014, 02:15:27 AM
 #18888

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There is a growing body of evidence that bigger government means slower growth of real GDP. Once the level of total government spending as a percentage of GDP reaches a tipping point, estimated to be from 15 percent to 25 percent of GDP, additional expansion crowds out private productive investment and slows economic growth. When government overreaches, economic freedom is diminished and private exchange opportunities are lost — that is, the range of choices open to individuals is restricted.

This is hardly a revelation, most of the communist economic experiements of the last century have demonstrated this is abundance (well total lack of abundance). The question I suppose is how much communism is too much? 15%, 30%, clearly 100% is fatal, and anything more than 50% is probably also terminally toxic. Optimally operating economies seem to have around 5-10% govt. share of GDP but it also depends on strong justice and legal systems for protection of individual freedoms.

An open question is what is considered to be government spending or government control of an economy. What we consider government spending is usually limited to what the government directly does (DOD, roads, courts, prisons, K-12 ED, NASA, etc). But the government also indirectly controls (and removes from free market dynamics) large swaths of the economy, such as healthcare, universities, regulated FED supported banks, etc.

If you consider government to consist of both what it directly and indirectly controls, then the US government past 50% of the economy a while ago.
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December 18, 2014, 02:17:35 AM
 #18889

The question I suppose is how much communism is too much? 15%, 30%, clearly 100% is fatal, and anything more than 50% is probably also terminally toxic.
How much cancer is terminal?

Are just a few couple metastatic cells ok?
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December 18, 2014, 02:26:42 AM
 #18890

I'm anxious to hear about the revised Lawsky regulations tomorrow.

Would I prefer they don't exist? Of course, but I expect they will be significantly "softer" than the original submission and this is certainly something that should bring some much needed confidence to this market.

Obviously they will not matter in the long run but I expect they will have a positive effect in the short to medium term. Lawsky was quoted in an interview recently as saying he expects Wall Street "will rush into this" when the field is properly regulated and as much as everyone dislike the idea of "regulating" Bitcoin I am very much in favor of getting cozy with Wall Street.

Only once they swallow the pill will they realise it is a poison that will kill them from the inside.

It will definitely be interesting to see if/how the proposed regulations were modified.

Bitcoin's fundamental strength is that it is censorship resilient. NYDFS can go heavy handed, but they risk the market bypassing and ignoring them. In my opinion that would be the most damaging outcome (for them) because the world would see how powerless regulation can be against bitcoin.

The smartest option for NYDFS is to make the regulation light and easy enough to comply with that most of the market sees compliance as the path of least resistance. Then after most firms have bitlicenses established, NYDFS could slowly increase the regulations having already trapped many market participants who now would find non-compliance more difficult.

If NYDFS is not smart, they will start off heavy handed forcing most of the market choose ignore as the optimal path, and in the process expose how little power they actually have and setting a precedent for the market to ignore further attempts in the future.

Bitcoin can take a cozy with Wall Street path, but it's censorship resiliency makes a black market path a valid option as well.
lunarboy
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December 18, 2014, 02:32:43 AM
 #18891

all eyes towards greece at the end of the year.

Quote
The calculation is simple - if the Greek parliament fails to elect the country's next president before the end of this year, a snap general election will be held in late January or early February.

And Syriza, the radical left wing opposition coalition, is favourite to win.

their main policy
Quote
Syriza wants to bring austerity to an abrupt end and write off a significant chunk of Greece's international debt.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-30521193

Europe may have alot more trouble ahead.
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December 18, 2014, 02:47:41 AM
 #18892

I'm anxious to hear about the revised Lawsky regulations tomorrow.

Would I prefer they don't exist? Of course, but I expect they will be significantly "softer" than the original submission and this is certainly something that should bring some much needed confidence to this market.

Interesting.  I am expecting the opposite.  More hardline and draconian.  He has no political opposition, he is not elected.  He is paid by interests opposed to this.  What is his incentive to "soften"?

He could just as easily say something like "I have listened carefully to all the commentary and determined that the concerns and need for consumer protections are much greater than we initially thought".  It isn't like he has to show any proof of anything to anyone, or do any science or analysis.

FREE MONEY1 Bitcoin for Silver and Gold NewLibertyDollar.com and now BITCOIN SPECIE (silver 1 ozt) shows value by QR
Bulk premiums as low as .0012 BTC "BETTER, MORE COLLECTIBLE, AND CHEAPER THAN SILVER EAGLES" 1Free of Government
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December 18, 2014, 03:20:05 AM
 #18893

NY will go right down the middle.

users, merchants, software devs, online wallets, and miners not affected.  exchanges and money transmitters heavily regulated as originally outlined.
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December 18, 2014, 03:24:16 AM
 #18894

NY will go right down the middle.

users, merchants, software devs, online wallets, and miners not affected.  exchanges and money transmitters heavily regulated as originally outlined.



I think online wallets *will* be affected, at least from a consumer-protection regs standpoint (which is a lot of it).

Where it's gonna get difficult is defining things like multisig custody, or crypto-software delivery services like blockchain.info.

Bitcoin is the first monetary system to credibly offer perfect information to all economic participants.
But Bitcointalk & /r/bitcoin are heavily censored. bitco.in/forum, forum.bitcoin.com, and /r/btc are open.
Best info on Casascius coins: http://spotcoins.com/casascius
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December 18, 2014, 03:30:30 AM
 #18895

i agree with the above and is what i meant.  blockchain.info not affected but certainly Circle and CB affected.
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December 18, 2014, 03:45:47 AM
 #18896

...blockchain.info not affected but certainly Circle and CB affected.


I think that'll be a really interesting question. I agree that blockchain.info *shouldn't* be affected, since all they do is deliver client-side tools, and offer a hosting service for user-encrypted files, but I'm very skeptical that a regulator (or a judge) will understand that.


Bitcoin is the first monetary system to credibly offer perfect information to all economic participants.
But Bitcointalk & /r/bitcoin are heavily censored. bitco.in/forum, forum.bitcoin.com, and /r/btc are open.
Best info on Casascius coins: http://spotcoins.com/casascius
marcus_of_augustus
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December 18, 2014, 03:52:57 AM
 #18897

...blockchain.info not affected but certainly Circle and CB affected.
I think that'll be a really interesting question. I agree that blockchain.info *shouldn't* be affected, since all they do is deliver client-side tools, and offer a hosting service for user-encrypted files, but I'm very skeptical that a regulator (or a judge) will understand that.

their ignorance in these matters is almost guaranteed, people are betting on it in effect.

The more they draw the lines the easier it will be to see how to straddle, side-step or tunnel under them.

Time-locked, multi-sig with an untrusted 3rd party and 2FA? Huh?

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December 18, 2014, 04:28:29 AM
 #18898

My prediction:  NY will go surprisingly easy and their policies will foster more mainstream use of native Bitcoin.

The underlying reason for such a policy will be that the more mainstream use there is, the more effective black-listing/white-listing and forced declarations will be when (not if) they chose to mandate it as an element of licensing and probably eventually for general use.


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December 18, 2014, 10:32:09 AM
 #18899

Quote
There is a growing body of evidence that bigger government means slower growth of real GDP. Once the level of total government spending as a percentage of GDP reaches a tipping point, estimated to be from 15 percent to 25 percent of GDP, additional expansion crowds out private productive investment and slows economic growth. When government overreaches, economic freedom is diminished and private exchange opportunities are lost — that is, the range of choices open to individuals is restricted.

This is hardly a revelation, most of the communist economic experiements of the last century have demonstrated this is abundance (well total lack of abundance). The question I suppose is how much communism is too much? 15%, 30%, clearly 100% is fatal, and anything more than 50% is probably also terminally toxic. Optimally operating economies seem to have around 5-10% govt. share of GDP but it also depends on strong justice and legal systems for protection of individual freedoms.

The problem that a free society is so effective that it grows government and in steps the saviors who now promise to solve all your problems.
5% turns into 10%. More problems arise and so it needs to grow even more to help you solve your new problems. 5% is soon 50% and the choke hold is now so strong it grows itself into death.

My guess is that the only sustainable amount of government is 0%

I think Monero (XMR) is very interesting.
https://moneroeconomy.com/faq/why-monero-matters
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December 18, 2014, 11:15:32 AM
 #18900

The question I suppose is how much communism is too much? 15%, 30%, clearly 100% is fatal, and anything more than 50% is probably also terminally toxic.
How much cancer is terminal?

Are just a few couple metastatic cells ok?

Yes, this is the right question. Government/state (organised violence) is per se growing rampant. This is the difference between the society (collectivism) vs. the community (anarchy/autarchy).

"Staat nenne ich's, wo alle Gifttrinker sind, Gute und Schlimme: Staat, wo alle sich selber verlieren, Gute und Schlimme:
Staat, wo der langsame Selbstmord aller – »das Leben« heisst."
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