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Question: Will you support Gavin's new block size limit hard fork of 8MB by January 1, 2016 then doubling every 2 years?
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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 1920778 times)
cypherdoc
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December 27, 2014, 10:01:48 PM
 #19061

Sure, appcoins will probably have some value but it will degrade over time, just like frequent flyer miles as they will inevitably be inflated away through promises broken.

i am guna laugh my god damn ass off if an "app coin" as you call them ever over takes bitcoin lol im not saying its likely, just that it would be the most hilarious event in crypto history for me to see so many "wise men" proven wrong all in one go Cheesy

How could they as most of them have not guaranteed a fixed supply nor will function as a neutral SOV for an undefined purpose.

how could they not have guaranteed a fixed supply? the vast majority do have a fixed supply enforced by mathematics. creation of a new alt does not expand the number of coins in any other network. can you define "neutral store of value"? storing value is the defined purpose if that is what the main/only function is.. so how can it be a "store of value for an undefined purpose" if the very purpose is to store value <- this statement is contradictory to itself..


I don't know all the altcoins and appcoins but I have seen plenty examples of how this promise has been violate,  like with Ripple. Bitshares has morphed itself like 3x. That's because none of them has gotten big enough to piss off too many people.

By neutral, I mean that Bitcoin only has to function as money and nothing else to succeed massively.
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December 27, 2014, 10:12:13 PM
 #19062

Nick Szabo has written an outstanding essay about the origins of money: http://szabo.best.vwh.net/shell.html
Krawisz is doing better work than Szabo these days:

http://nakamotoinstitute.org/reciprocal-altruism-in-the-theory-of-money/

(insert disclaimer referencing "shoulders of giants" here)
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December 27, 2014, 10:19:44 PM
 #19063

Bitcoin, as money, aspires to become the most easily exchangeable good so that it can be traded for any goods or services on the market. For that reason Bitcoin is absolutely held, to some extent, because of its ability to be saved and maintain in exchange value so as to satisfy "future random opportunities" (the very definition of a SOV).

Now Storjcoin, as an appcoin, only serves one purpose which is to (afaik) use storage capabilities of the Storj network.

One will not hold Storjcoin to satisfy future storage needs. Presumably they will hold BTC and exchange for Storjcoin only when they want to use the Storj network.

Given the frictionless nature of this exchange it is reasonable to assume that most people will prefer holding the more valuable, liquid asset instead of one that is restricted to use in only one market(network).
If this model were true then nobody would hold something else than cash.
But people hold stocks which are less liquid than cash and which you cannot exchange against goods.

Appcoins really are just shares of a network as stocks are shares of companies. If a company creates value then its shares are valuable, if a network creates value then its shares will be valuable too. The only difference is that the company earns profits and give them out whereas the value created by a nertwork inflates directly the value of its tokens.

Cypherdoc you are right the limited supply of appcoins is questionnable but it's the same things with stocks. There are not good long term store of value but can be good medium tem store of value and speculative vehicles if managed actively. You cannot buy facebook shares or maidsafecoins and come back 20 years later whereas you can do that with BTC.
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December 27, 2014, 10:21:28 PM
 #19064

Sure, appcoins will probably have some value but it will degrade over time, just like frequent flyer miles as they will inevitably be inflated away through promises broken.

i am guna laugh my god damn ass off if an "app coin" as you call them ever over takes bitcoin lol im not saying its likely, just that it would be the most hilarious event in crypto history for me to see so many "wise men" proven wrong all in one go Cheesy

How could they as most of them have not guaranteed a fixed supply nor will function as a neutral SOV for an undefined purpose.

how could they not have guaranteed a fixed supply? the vast majority do have a fixed supply enforced by mathematics. creation of a new alt does not expand the number of coins in any other network. can you define "neutral store of value"? storing value is the defined purpose if that is what the main/only function is.. so how can it be a "store of value for an undefined purpose" if the very purpose is to store value <- this statement is contradictory to itself..


I don't know all the altcoins and appcoins but I have seen plenty examples of how this promise has been violate,  like with Ripple. Bitshares has morphed itself like 3x. That's because none of them has gotten big enough to piss off too many people.

By neutral, I mean that Bitcoin only has to function as money and nothing else to succeed massively.

its only a tiny fraction of coins that can increase the number of coins. the vast majority cant do that and never have or should i say it is possible with a fork or something but that would ultimately be the downfall of the coin - bitcoin is no different in regards to increasing supply. the fact that bitcoin can only ever act as a form of currency could be the very reason another coin over takes it - not that it would happen any time soon but you cant exactly say its impossible. acting as only money is not a prerequisite for success. the only reason bitcoin has that luxury of only needing to act as money is due to its 6 year head start to anything innovative enough to challenge it and bitcoin being the first of its kind. whether that head start can keep it ahead 10 years from now is any ones guess.. these second gen coins - not just app coins, theres a big difference - could eventually evolve and innovate enough to become challengers to the crypto status quo.

"Pioneering a revolutionary novel consensus mechanism called proof of importance."
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December 27, 2014, 10:22:26 PM
 #19065

What incentive do I have to hold appcoinx to store value when BTC promises better return & better liquidity
Diversification.

Why investors have a portfolio of stocks instead of just having the stock that has the better risk/reward?

This is not diversification.

These are all eggs of the same basket (cryptoSOV).

Network effect dictates only one egg can survive. There is no comparison with stocks.

That is exactly diversification.

I'm sorry but I don't believe that purchasing assets subject to the same underlying risks is diversification.

Bitcoin, real estate, stocks, PM : sure

Bitcoin, Litecoin, Mastercoin, Storjcoin : not so

If one accepts the "only one egg can survive" theory, then you have nearly perfect negative correlation between the assets (at least when you buy only two of them, one being the most likely survivor and one being the strongest alt; if you buy more it becomes more complex, but still diversification). The is exactly what you want for ideal diversification.

I don't think you understand the concept at all.

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December 27, 2014, 10:28:41 PM
 #19066

Sure, appcoins will probably have some value but it will degrade over time, just like frequent flyer miles as they will inevitably be inflated away through promises broken.

i am guna laugh my god damn ass off if an "app coin" as you call them ever over takes bitcoin lol im not saying its likely, just that it would be the most hilarious event in crypto history for me to see so many "wise men" proven wrong all in one go Cheesy

How could they as most of them have not guaranteed a fixed supply nor will function as a neutral SOV for an undefined purpose.

The way this would happen is if one of them became extremely useful and popular first. Then it would be so widely used and accepted that it could start to be used as money by others even if they had no direct interest in the underlying service. It really wouldn't take a lot for something to become more widely used than bitcoin at this point.

I don't really see this happening with something like storj (too limited in application), but something like ethereum or perhaps maidsafe has the (long shot) potential to develop in that manner.
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December 28, 2014, 01:49:46 AM
 #19067

Sure, appcoins will probably have some value but it will degrade over time, just like frequent flyer miles as they will inevitably be inflated away through promises broken.

i am guna laugh my god damn ass off if an "app coin" as you call them ever over takes bitcoin lol im not saying its likely, just that it would be the most hilarious event in crypto history for me to see so many "wise men" proven wrong all in one go Cheesy

How could they as most of them have not guaranteed a fixed supply nor will function as a neutral SOV for an undefined purpose.

The way this would happen is if one of them became extremely useful and popular first. Then it would be so widely used and accepted that it could start to be used as money by others even if they had no direct interest in the underlying service. It really wouldn't take a lot for something to become more widely used than bitcoin at this point.

I don't really see this happening with something like storj (too limited in application), but something like ethereum or perhaps maidsafe has the (long shot) potential to develop in that manner.

Bitcoin uses electricity, but any resource can be used to back honest money if it uses a one way function for consensus. Systems like storj and ethereum can be built on Bitcoin. The beauty of using energy is that it's abundant.

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
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December 28, 2014, 03:47:56 AM
 #19068


FREE MONEY1 Bitcoin for Silver and Gold NewLibertyDollar.com and now BITCOIN SPECIE (silver 1 ozt) shows value by QR
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smooth
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December 28, 2014, 04:43:41 AM
 #19069

Sure, appcoins will probably have some value but it will degrade over time, just like frequent flyer miles as they will inevitably be inflated away through promises broken.

i am guna laugh my god damn ass off if an "app coin" as you call them ever over takes bitcoin lol im not saying its likely, just that it would be the most hilarious event in crypto history for me to see so many "wise men" proven wrong all in one go Cheesy

How could they as most of them have not guaranteed a fixed supply nor will function as a neutral SOV for an undefined purpose.

The way this would happen is if one of them became extremely useful and popular first. Then it would be so widely used and accepted that it could start to be used as money by others even if they had no direct interest in the underlying service. It really wouldn't take a lot for something to become more widely used than bitcoin at this point.

I don't really see this happening with something like storj (too limited in application), but something like ethereum or perhaps maidsafe has the (long shot) potential to develop in that manner.

Bitcoin uses electricity, but any resource can be used to back honest money if it uses a one way function for consensus. Systems like storj and ethereum can be built on Bitcoin. The beauty of using energy is that it's abundant.

You are looking at this in terms of what can be done (i.e. can be built on bitcoin), I'm looking at it in terms of what may actually happen.

Systems like ethereum or maidsafe could possibly become vastly more widespread than bitcoin on an explosive basis (i.e. far faster than bitcoin can adapt, if there is even a desire by the bitcoin community to adapt). Vastly more popular means only tens of millions of users or possibly 100 million, which really isn't that many when you consider a simple application like whatsapp with a billion users.

At that point the liquidity argument usually made in favor of bitcoin applies strongly against it.

To be clear I don't expect this to happen, but i recognize it as a possible low probability outcome.
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December 28, 2014, 05:10:51 AM
 #19070

Sure, appcoins will probably have some value but it will degrade over time, just like frequent flyer miles as they will inevitably be inflated away through promises broken.

i am guna laugh my god damn ass off if an "app coin" as you call them ever over takes bitcoin lol im not saying its likely, just that it would be the most hilarious event in crypto history for me to see so many "wise men" proven wrong all in one go Cheesy

How could they as most of them have not guaranteed a fixed supply nor will function as a neutral SOV for an undefined purpose.

The way this would happen is if one of them became extremely useful and popular first. Then it would be so widely used and accepted that it could start to be used as money by others even if they had no direct interest in the underlying service. It really wouldn't take a lot for something to become more widely used than bitcoin at this point.

I don't really see this happening with something like storj (too limited in application), but something like ethereum or perhaps maidsafe has the (long shot) potential to develop in that manner.

Bitcoin uses electricity, but any resource can be used to back honest money if it uses a one way function for consensus. Systems like storj and ethereum can be built on Bitcoin. The beauty of using energy is that it's abundant.

You are looking at this in terms of what can be done (i.e. can be built on bitcoin), I'm looking at it in terms of what may actually happen.

Systems like ethereum or maidsafe could possibly become vastly more widespread than bitcoin on an explosive basis (i.e. far faster than bitcoin can adapt, if there is even a desire by the bitcoin community to adapt). Vastly more popular means only tens of millions of users or possibly 100 million, which really isn't that many when you consider something a simple application like whatsapp with a billion users.

At that point the liquidity argument usually made in favor of bitcoin applies strongly against it.

To be clear I don't expect this to happen, but i recognize it as a possible low probability outcome.
Maidsafe is interesting, but doesn't sound like it's good one way function. Also, it would be easy to clone and sell by storage technology companies. Unlike ASIC manufacturers, they could offer incentives and discounts for adopting their centralized storage systems. In that way it's a lot like PoS systems. Perhaps every hard drive manufacturer should develop their own storage coin.

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
smooth
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December 28, 2014, 05:37:54 AM
 #19071

Sure, appcoins will probably have some value but it will degrade over time, just like frequent flyer miles as they will inevitably be inflated away through promises broken.

i am guna laugh my god damn ass off if an "app coin" as you call them ever over takes bitcoin lol im not saying its likely, just that it would be the most hilarious event in crypto history for me to see so many "wise men" proven wrong all in one go Cheesy

How could they as most of them have not guaranteed a fixed supply nor will function as a neutral SOV for an undefined purpose.

The way this would happen is if one of them became extremely useful and popular first. Then it would be so widely used and accepted that it could start to be used as money by others even if they had no direct interest in the underlying service. It really wouldn't take a lot for something to become more widely used than bitcoin at this point.

I don't really see this happening with something like storj (too limited in application), but something like ethereum or perhaps maidsafe has the (long shot) potential to develop in that manner.

Bitcoin uses electricity, but any resource can be used to back honest money if it uses a one way function for consensus. Systems like storj and ethereum can be built on Bitcoin. The beauty of using energy is that it's abundant.

You are looking at this in terms of what can be done (i.e. can be built on bitcoin), I'm looking at it in terms of what may actually happen.

Systems like ethereum or maidsafe could possibly become vastly more widespread than bitcoin on an explosive basis (i.e. far faster than bitcoin can adapt, if there is even a desire by the bitcoin community to adapt). Vastly more popular means only tens of millions of users or possibly 100 million, which really isn't that many when you consider something a simple application like whatsapp with a billion users.

At that point the liquidity argument usually made in favor of bitcoin applies strongly against it.

To be clear I don't expect this to happen, but i recognize it as a possible low probability outcome.
Maidsafe is interesting, but doesn't sound like it's good one way function. Also, it would be easy to clone and sell by storage technology companies. Unlike ASIC manufacturers, they could offer incentives and discounts for adopting their centralized storage systems. In that way it's a lot like PoS systems. Perhaps every hard drive manufacturer should develop their own storage coin.

My understanding was that maidsafe was not just storage but more of a general purpose network services platform. If I'm incorrect about that, an I may be, then I would put it more in the category of storj.
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December 28, 2014, 05:54:14 AM
 #19072

Sure, appcoins will probably have some value but it will degrade over time, just like frequent flyer miles as they will inevitably be inflated away through promises broken.

i am guna laugh my god damn ass off if an "app coin" as you call them ever over takes bitcoin lol im not saying its likely, just that it would be the most hilarious event in crypto history for me to see so many "wise men" proven wrong all in one go Cheesy

How could they as most of them have not guaranteed a fixed supply nor will function as a neutral SOV for an undefined purpose.

The way this would happen is if one of them became extremely useful and popular first. Then it would be so widely used and accepted that it could start to be used as money by others even if they had no direct interest in the underlying service. It really wouldn't take a lot for something to become more widely used than bitcoin at this point.

I don't really see this happening with something like storj (too limited in application), but something like ethereum or perhaps maidsafe has the (long shot) potential to develop in that manner.

Bitcoin uses electricity, but any resource can be used to back honest money if it uses a one way function for consensus. Systems like storj and ethereum can be built on Bitcoin. The beauty of using energy is that it's abundant.

You are looking at this in terms of what can be done (i.e. can be built on bitcoin), I'm looking at it in terms of what may actually happen.

Systems like ethereum or maidsafe could possibly become vastly more widespread than bitcoin on an explosive basis (i.e. far faster than bitcoin can adapt, if there is even a desire by the bitcoin community to adapt). Vastly more popular means only tens of millions of users or possibly 100 million, which really isn't that many when you consider something a simple application like whatsapp with a billion users.

At that point the liquidity argument usually made in favor of bitcoin applies strongly against it.

To be clear I don't expect this to happen, but i recognize it as a possible low probability outcome.
Maidsafe is interesting, but doesn't sound like it's good one way function. Also, it would be easy to clone and sell by storage technology companies. Unlike ASIC manufacturers, they could offer incentives and discounts for adopting their centralized storage systems. In that way it's a lot like PoS systems. Perhaps every hard drive manufacturer should develop their own storage coin.

My understanding was that maidsafe was not just storage but more of a general purpose network services platform. If I'm incorrect about that, an I may be, then I would put it more in the category of storj.
Perhaps. BitPay's Foxtrot seems to be a similar approach. They all think that they can be universal currencies but they don't realize they are merely planets revolving around Bitcoin.

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
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December 28, 2014, 05:58:39 PM
 #19073

Sure, appcoins will probably have some value but it will degrade over time, just like frequent flyer miles as they will inevitably be inflated away through promises broken.

i am guna laugh my god damn ass off if an "app coin" as you call them ever over takes bitcoin lol im not saying its likely, just that it would be the most hilarious event in crypto history for me to see so many "wise men" proven wrong all in one go Cheesy

How could they as most of them have not guaranteed a fixed supply nor will function as a neutral SOV for an undefined purpose.

The way this would happen is if one of them became extremely useful and popular first. Then it would be so widely used and accepted that it could start to be used as money by others even if they had no direct interest in the underlying service. It really wouldn't take a lot for something to become more widely used than bitcoin at this point.

I don't really see this happening with something like storj (too limited in application), but something like ethereum or perhaps maidsafe has the (long shot) potential to develop in that manner.

Bitcoin uses electricity, but any resource can be used to back honest money if it uses a one way function for consensus. Systems like storj and ethereum can be built on Bitcoin. The beauty of using energy is that it's abundant.

You are looking at this in terms of what can be done (i.e. can be built on bitcoin), I'm looking at it in terms of what may actually happen.

Systems like ethereum or maidsafe could possibly become vastly more widespread than bitcoin on an explosive basis (i.e. far faster than bitcoin can adapt, if there is even a desire by the bitcoin community to adapt). Vastly more popular means only tens of millions of users or possibly 100 million, which really isn't that many when you consider something a simple application like whatsapp with a billion users.

At that point the liquidity argument usually made in favor of bitcoin applies strongly against it.

To be clear I don't expect this to happen, but i recognize it as a possible low probability outcome.
Maidsafe is interesting, but doesn't sound like it's good one way function. Also, it would be easy to clone and sell by storage technology companies. Unlike ASIC manufacturers, they could offer incentives and discounts for adopting their centralized storage systems. In that way it's a lot like PoS systems. Perhaps every hard drive manufacturer should develop their own storage coin.

My understanding was that maidsafe was not just storage but more of a general purpose network services platform. If I'm incorrect about that, an I may be, then I would put it more in the category of storj.
Perhaps. BitPay's Foxtrot seems to be a similar approach. They all think that they can be universal currencies but they don't realize they are merely planets revolving around Bitcoin.

I believe Bitpay's foxtrot runs on Bitcoin

"I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010
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December 28, 2014, 06:07:23 PM
 #19074

Eris essentially going after Ethereum: https://blog.erisindustries.com/products/2014/12/27/step-by-step-eris/

Vitalik and Eris staff back and forth in the comments...

Bitcoin is the first monetary system to credibly offer perfect information to all economic participants.
But Bitcointalk & /r/bitcoin are heavily censored. bitco.in/forum, forum.bitcoin.com, and /r/btc are open.
Best info on Casascius coins: http://spotcoins.com/casascius
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December 28, 2014, 06:13:54 PM
 #19075

Sure, appcoins will probably have some value but it will degrade over time, just like frequent flyer miles as they will inevitably be inflated away through promises broken.

i am guna laugh my god damn ass off if an "app coin" as you call them ever over takes bitcoin lol im not saying its likely, just that it would be the most hilarious event in crypto history for me to see so many "wise men" proven wrong all in one go Cheesy

How could they as most of them have not guaranteed a fixed supply nor will function as a neutral SOV for an undefined purpose.

The way this would happen is if one of them became extremely useful and popular first. Then it would be so widely used and accepted that it could start to be used as money by others even if they had no direct interest in the underlying service. It really wouldn't take a lot for something to become more widely used than bitcoin at this point.

I don't really see this happening with something like storj (too limited in application), but something like ethereum or perhaps maidsafe has the (long shot) potential to develop in that manner.


i can't think of anything more useful or popular than the function of money itself.  not to mention exciting, as this is precisely where all the problems of the financial world lie, and hence the potential to disrupt.  the problem when you try to intermingle or weave other assets classes into the structure of the money itself is that it quickly gets complicated and even political as we're seeing with Ethereum.  poor boy Vitalik can't even decide how to secure the whole concept yet at this late stage of his game.

Maidsafe is the goal for a decentralized internet, which is about the extent of my understanding of it.  however, using Safecoins is problematic.
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December 28, 2014, 06:14:10 PM
 #19076

Eris essentially going after Ethereum: https://blog.erisindustries.com/products/2014/12/27/step-by-step-eris/

Vitalik and Eris staff back and forth in the comments...

Vitalik has been seemingly pleasantly surprised by the recent developments in bitshares and participAtes in discussion over at bitsharestalk... maybe he will get a paid delegate and switch over?

★☆★Syscoin - Decentralized Marketplace and Multisig Platform
Pay with Bitcoin, ZCash and many more
For more visit Syscoin.org  ★☆★
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December 28, 2014, 06:18:04 PM
 #19077

Eris essentially going after Ethereum: https://blog.erisindustries.com/products/2014/12/27/step-by-step-eris/

Vitalik and Eris staff back and forth in the comments...


And from the looks of it both have yet to deliver any kind of working application

"I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010
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December 28, 2014, 06:22:17 PM
 #19078

Sure, appcoins will probably have some value but it will degrade over time, just like frequent flyer miles as they will inevitably be inflated away through promises broken.

i am guna laugh my god damn ass off if an "app coin" as you call them ever over takes bitcoin lol im not saying its likely, just that it would be the most hilarious event in crypto history for me to see so many "wise men" proven wrong all in one go Cheesy

How could they as most of them have not guaranteed a fixed supply nor will function as a neutral SOV for an undefined purpose.

The way this would happen is if one of them became extremely useful and popular first. Then it would be so widely used and accepted that it could start to be used as money by others even if they had no direct interest in the underlying service. It really wouldn't take a lot for something to become more widely used than bitcoin at this point.

I don't really see this happening with something like storj (too limited in application), but something like ethereum or perhaps maidsafe has the (long shot) potential to develop in that manner.


i can't think of anything more useful or popular than the function of money itself.  not to mention exciting, as this is precisely where all the problems of the financial world lie, and hence the potential to disrupt.  the problem when you try to intermingle or weave other assets classes into the structure of the money itself is that it quickly gets complicated and even political as we're seeing with Ethereum.  poor boy Vitalik can't even decide how to secure the whole concept yet at this late stage of his game.

Maidsafe is the goal for a decentralized internet, which is about the extent of my understanding of it.  however, using Safecoins is problematic.

When you try to solve all the problems you sometimes end up not solving a single one.


"I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010
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December 28, 2014, 06:38:44 PM
 #19079

Eris essentially going after Ethereum: https://blog.erisindustries.com/products/2014/12/27/step-by-step-eris/

Vitalik and Eris staff back and forth in the comments...

Vitalik has been seemingly pleasantly surprised by the recent developments in bitshares and participAtes in discussion over at bitsharestalk... maybe he will get a paid delegate and switch over?

and now he's talking to Eris?  oh brother.  such wow.  such confusion.  from the article:

"We’ll say it again: Blockchains are tools, not investment products. At Eris Industries, we build the tools to make them better, and more useful for, developers and businesspeople just like you."  sure, as i said above, there will be some who will be motivated to "contribute" to these types of tools, however, with Bitcoin everyone in fact has a tremendous "investment incentive" to participate in the greatest network effect of all, that of Money.  this is why so many VC's and smart ppl are investing in Bitcoin; because of the binary potential.  either zero or the Moon.

furthermore, in one of the diagrams it says that Ethereum may use "snapshots" to secure their blockchain.  that won't work.  these are similar to "checkpoints" that Bitcoin uses.  but in Bitcoin, checkpoints are mere validations of the POW that have gone into building/fortifying the blockchain up to that point in time.  they are merely cementing/formalizing what already has been cemented.  a "snapshot", imo, is merely a confidence measure.  there's nothing to assure that the snapshot represents reality or the truth up to that point.
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December 28, 2014, 06:51:43 PM
 #19080

No one is saying  that the app won't have value as in Storj or Maidsafe. It's the appcoin that will trend towards 0 as BTC is held until only when one needs to utilize appcoin. Eventually, you might as well just use BTC instead of appcoin and the devs will probably come to this realization .  

Instead of issuing appcoins, the devs should issue stock. Then it would be fair.

SuperNet does act more like a stock then an appcoin: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=762346.0

Not only is it backed by crypto-currency giving it a NAV floor but it is also backed by a very wide array of differant dividend/revenue producing companies. Given one of it's purposes is to allow the frictionless transfer between any type of crypto currency/asset via decentralized tradebots and dynamic p2p orderbooks, I see a future where it will be very possible that such a revenue producing token(s) also becoming usable as a currency, spendable wherever btc is already accepted.

Andreas explains the concept nicely here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jw28y81s7Wo&list=PLdba36-UYQPeb2Gsq3ldC1bstxLBLlyUN (17 min mark)
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