[XMR] Monero Speculation

[elrippo]

Deleted rangedriver's and elripp's replies that both quoted BlockaFett's post but added no meaningful content

So far freedom of speach goes down the drain in this forum  
The fact that BlockaFett's quoting is meaningful in your opinion, does not really raise my cocnitive aspiration.
Maybe you should consider not beeing so bullish towards your supporters....
You overshot this one pretty clearly smooth  

elrippo I have nothing against your contributions but when you quote 50 lines and then add one line that doesn't actually say anything, I'm sure you can do better.

smooth, cool down, take a good cup of tea and let me say what i want to, when i want to. I don't charge you for your words, so please do not charge mine.
"quit pro quo"

It's "quid pro quo", and this thread is moderated, with clear-ish rules laid out in the OP. It is smooth's prerogative to moderate it how he sees fit.

Being a supporter has no bearing on your entitlement to post off-topic stuff. Note: I didn't read either of the posts that got deleted, so this isn't directed at what either of you said. It's just how things should work in general.

Off topic posts will be removed. Off topic includes any extensive discussion of other coins, promoting other coins, or posting of promotional materials from other coins.

Non-substantive comments such as Monero sucks, Monero is a scam, Monero is great, Monero to the moon, etc. are considered off topic. Every post and reply should add to the discussion.

If smooth doesn't remove OT posts, then he's somewhat of a liar (keeping in mind post quality is often subjective).

The quit was meant to be a little sarcastic, but it didn't land like it should.
Below find my post, it's up to you if it's OT or not. I won't post or talk about this "posting/quoting" from my perspective further, due ot it's meaninglessness in this world (not my posting/Quoting, but the discussion of it in a kind of heated state of mind from smoothy).

If it is smoothys responsibility to aim at his own rules, that's fine for me, and i think for smoothy too, but i kind of tend to call this "censorship" in a heated state of mind. So in respect to that, i won't be bullish because a quoting of mine got removed, but i don't like beeing censored, as a supporter/nonsupporter/critic and/or fan of something in this "NSA and Friends" surveiled world.
Enough, cup of tea and popcorn  

So what's the reason this time for the dumps?

Just my opinion, but something to do with your toxic core devs running around BCT trying to denigrate the competition, instead of the *much needed* development that would get your wallet to a functional level that would let exchanges like Cryptsy have the confidence to add it, let alone real users in a real market... who according to your devs are 'too stupid' to use the dysfunctional code they are in 'stewardship' of that is in essentially the same state as when they cloned it from the 'Bytecoin scam' one year ago - way to attract new buyers. (But don't worry, according to them they at least removed the scam code embedded in the software that they admitted gave the developers a deliberate and unfair advantage after other people had to point it out to them - nice to know).

After one year of zero innovation on top of Bytecoin (apart from MyMonero.com, the first of several centralized payment websites envisaged, owned, developed and operated by your lead Dev FluffyPony, soon to be followed by PayBee.com that will presumably require more "investment" from you guys, and hopefully turn out better than his VertPay website that he tried to raise $200k from Vertcoin investors for right before he joined Monero), it's becoming ridiculous to keep saying 'Monero is the only safe way to store money, how come it's dumping' - like the other day when FluffyPony's centralized payment website went down and no one could deposit coins to Poloniex and his solution was to "call him on his mobile if he is asleep" - the system doesn't work.

Essentially, the bubble of bullsh*t is bursting..  Monero is not unique at this stage, it is just another cryptonote clone, and it's credibility is so tarnished thank to the dev's scammy behaviour (my subjective opinion), DSH on Poloniex is probably a better investment right now IMO, at least it *doesn't* have this kind of dev team.  

I think that's the real reason why no one on the dev team is pushing for new exchanges - without everything going through Poloniex, which is controlled by a few whales like Warz, the bullsh*t bubble would have burst a long time ago, e.g. if it was also on Cryptsy / Finex and the non-Poloniex volume was <$1000 per day across all these big exchanges, just like it is like that now with Bittrex / BTER, market demand would start to look more fake than it does already (with the only XMR in buy books apparently being 4 huge whale buy walls now which I suspect will be 'on the move' when the price gets near as usual).  Take Poloniex out of the equation and XMR in this state would be < $200k within a few days I suspect, i.e. without the ability to run a marketing scam by controlling the conversation on BCT <-> Poloniex trollbox and try to make this off-the-shelf clone-code appear to have any use / value and hide the fact that they have done zero innovation as they should have to earn the value they are claiming.

Less bullsh*t, more development.  Value has to be earned, not propped up on a fake exchange and trolled by fake devs who like to talk a lot instead of delivering anything, and offending 100s of people around BCT each day.

V. surprised some real devs haven't just forked Bytecoin, added a GUI and local DB and seen if this tech can actually go somewhere in the real market, or maybe that is a comment on the CryptoNote tech itself, IDK.

If you want to see what your 'devs' are really like, check how right now all they are doing is trying to get Dash 2 little stars on a 3rd party guide site even after they got laughed out for saying Dash was a premine: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=199685.msg11215773#msg11215773

Most toxic dev team on earth.  Your responsibility as investors - fix it.

I am glad to live in a world where i enjoy to have a choice if i want to or not. I think i do not have to give you an awnser mate  

[smooth]

elrippo let's not make a bit deal about what gets deleted and what doesn't. No one is trying to censor you. I deleted two posts at the same time because they both quoted the whole long message and added little to it. One of them happened to be yours. Next time, please quote less and/or add more.

[elrippo]

Agreed 

[dEBRUYNE]

Shapeshift has partnered with with purse.io to allow Amazon purchases to be made with BTC, XMR and more!

https://twitter.com/ShapeShift_io/status/593429838574260224

PurseIO supports the following countries: UK, Germany, Japan, China, France, Italy, Spain, India & Canada (according to shapeshift twitter)

[MalMen]

Shapeshift has partnered with with purse.io to allow Amazon purchases to be made with BTC, XMR and more!

https://twitter.com/ShapeShift_io/status/593429838574260224

PurseIO supports the following countries: UK, Germany, Japan, China, France, Italy, Spain, India & Canada (according to shapeshift twitter)

Thats great news, it bring some dayly use to monero

[wpalczynski]

The jews controlled almost all the banks during the Weimar republic and lead Germany to severe economic depression, we have the same situation with the US now, coincidence?

Can we keep that out of here please?

Exactly, this has nothing to do with Monero speculation.

[wpalczynski]

Its pretty simple - XMR is effectively a single-exchange coin, and on that exchange there is a constant floating buywall way-bigger than any small XMR investors can touch, being moved up and down, with the whales who own it talking about it in the trollbox - the proof is the whale's words themselves Kazuke!  

I'm not convinced, you have to proof in one line, besides we all know the buy walls magically appear and no human being is behind them if so they are tampering with mother nature  

It's a theory and a speculation of his. Just like any other writing in here. BlockaFett finally actually writes something that's not trolling per se, and a legitimate observation. If someone else where to have written what he just wrote, the sentiment towards the content would have been different. I suggest welcoming his new-found tone a bit more.
There's nothing wrong about being concerned that polo is the only legit exchange for Monero.

he is a troll, and you are too naive or dumb to see that, he is finding cracks to get in, like a rat.

Yes.  True.  This new technique is called "trolling gently".

[Minotaur26]

I like blockafett and even think he has somewhat good intentions - see his involvement in the mintpal thread.

but the fun fact is that blockafett does not understand the implication of ninja/insta/fastmines.

distribution is not just about being fair (whatever that should be), but about the possibility to network in an economic sense. fast/ninja/instamines are massively hindering this process.

What the Dash supporters don't understand is that market cap as a naked number is not an indicator of success. They look at the charts and the market and think everything is just fine and the instamine doesn't matter.

It is in fact an indicator of nothing because you can get high market cap both due to good distribution or bad distribution, as we just discussed in the case of Bytecoin, possibly the coin with the worst distribution in history (okay there others that tie it). Those two cases are very different in underlying dynamics however.

I think anyone can understand that current distribution of a coin has a role to play in reaching a threshold that allows for a network effect to start. Reaching that distribution threshold can occur through many mechanisms though and at different stages of the life of a coin. The question should always be: What is the distribution today?  

I believe coins get more distributed during up trends and specially towards the top,  as that is where long term holders are willing to take profits and new people feel compelled to buy into the enthusiasm.  To the contrary, during downtrends and specially close to the bottom you normally find accumulation by believers to be more likely.

If a coin is strong enough to survive several of these distribution cycles and is able to attract investment after it has gone through the first growth cycle of profit taking and redistribution by early adopters its chances for long term survival increase. In my case, I look at these cycles, one way you can tell if an asset is just being hold by a small group is if its not going through natural profit taking and redistribution cycles, there is low volume and it just seems stagnant at a price that does not seem consequent with the perceived fundamentals of the project.

Having said that,  whether a high market cap is solid or not, (by smooth's criteria if the market cap comes from good or bad distribution) needs to eventually manifest in reality. Regardless of the opinion one holds on what is the real underlying situation of an asset, either it will continue to hold and grow or not.  So the same asset can be represented to have good or bad distribution depending on who you ask, supporter or detractor, but reality can only be one and will always manifest itself in due time.

I think in the meantime the only thing one can do is look for ways to add value to the ecosystem and maybe monitor its progress in terms of adoption every certain amount of time.  If an asset is doing consistently well and making progress lets say into its third year of existence, it is more interesting to me.  Also watch those profit taking redistribution cycles and make sure there is development progress and the fundamentals remain strong. Just my 2 cents.

[wpalczynski]

I don't think the GUI is the key. Monero appeals most to extremely intelligent people who also have lots of money (aminorex, ArticMine). This type of guys will be the deciders of the price in the short (1 year) term. The masses come later.

I should refocus to the MiG thing. That is directing to the above segment. Here, my laborious scenario analyses did not receive even one comment. That is indicative that you aren't even interested in Monero here! We need more leaders, and we are bound to get them on board in the coming months.

Just so you know, I read and enjoyed everything you wrote on the subject, but did not feel an immediate need to make any comments.


I feel confident there are many others like me. Perhaps we should be more expressive. 

I certainly am glad Risto takes the time to make these calculations and share them.

[wpalczynski]

losing my faith in monero
how low do you guys think we will go?

Same boat man!
Nobody really can tell how low it will go but all the signs are looking ugly now.
I would not like to be Monero owner these days.
A huge disadoption going as coins are being dumped.
I wonder when the Panic-Patricks are entering and starting to dump. That will be even bloodier than the current red candles.

You will make an excellent cozy bearskin in front of my fireplace.

+1 but maybe for the bathroom around the base of the toilet.

[wpalczynski]

I'm here because i just spent 2 days arguing with them during their 'bum-rush' of the CoinMarketCap thread and when I asked them basic questions they run off.
...
If your toxic devs weren't ... I wouldn't be here.

If you are saying that you are here bent on retaliation, then you are welcome to leave.

If you have substantive points to make, you're welcome to make them, but continuing to repeat that Monero devs are "toxic" according to you "toxic" because we feel that instamined coins should be clearly identified as such does not count as substantive points.

My substantive point is that it's my opinion that Monero's value is being rapidly reduced by the toxic actions/behaviour of the Monero core devs (LIKE YOU) and I am giving the reasons for that and asking your investors to fix it for 3 reasons 1) You are taking up a hell of a lot of other people's time including me 2) you are saying 'fuck you' to every Monero investor when you do this sh*t  3) you are the biggest hypocrite on BCT I ever saw - how can you even show your face to your community when you are doing this instead of ***developing***.  

You jumping in here within 5 seconds and trying to police that / silence me is hardly surprising.

You are entitled to those opinions as is anyone else to theirs however I would like to know why you have not answered Smooths direct, easy to comprehend questions?

[wpalczynski]

I'm here because i just spent 2 days arguing with them during their 'bum-rush' of the CoinMarketCap thread and when I asked them basic questions they run off.
...
If your toxic devs weren't ... I wouldn't be here.

If you are saying that you are here bent on retaliation, then you are welcome to leave.

If you have substantive points to make, you're welcome to make them, but continuing to repeat that Monero devs are "toxic" according to you "toxic" because we feel that instamined coins should be clearly identified as such does not count as substantive points.

My substantive point is that it's my opinion that Monero's value is being rapidly reduced by the toxic actions/behaviour of the Monero core devs (LIKE YOU) and I am giving the reasons for that and asking your investors to fix it for 3 reasons 1) You are taking up a hell of a lot of other people's time including me 2) you are saying 'fuck you' to every Monero investor when you do this sh*t  3) you are the biggest hypocrite on BCT I ever saw - how can you even show your face to your community when you are doing this instead of ***developing***.  

You jumping in here within 5 seconds and trying to police that / silence me is hardly surprising.

BlockaFett, if I wanted to police/silence you here, your posts would already be deleted.

What evidence is there for Poloniex being a "fake exchange"?

Who pointed out the crippled mining code to us?

"BlockaFett, if I wanted to police/silence you here, your posts would already be deleted."  Except then you would look more scammy than you already do.

"What evidence is there for Poloniex being a "fake exchange"? I don't - it's a subjective opinion.  People don't need to prove opinion's Smooth, this is basic argumentation.

"Who pointed out the crippled mining code to us?" I don't know but this suggests that you don't either?  Why are you asking me?

So I responded to your questions, but main thing I notice is you evaded my point - interesting that you don't deny the real point I am making, on this, a thread speculating on Monero value.

djeezes dude, I've been reading the forum for several years now, I almost never post... but I gotta say, you are the worst discussion-partner I ever read, this isn't even trolling, it's worse...

best regards though, and good luck in life with your 'opinions'

the reason I am being explicit about what I am saying is an opinion, is because your 2 core devs have been presenting *opinions* as *facts* to attack Dash and their other competitors.   For example saying that "Dash is a scam because it was instamined and [our opinion] is that he did this deliberately so that proves its a scam"  - it doesn't, but they hammer this 100s of times on various threads to try to hurt Dash in various ways, which has fallen flat on its face a everyone here know.

I think the scariest thing reading these comments, is that evidently your community *approves* of the tactics / ethics / behaviour of your 2 core devs who are destroying your own reputation and price....but hey...you do what you want with your $.

Hey bud, how come you never back up anything you say with quotes.  They say this, they say that, show us where?  Its not that difficult to quote.

[BlockaFett]

Hey bud, how come you never back up anything you say with quotes.  They say this, they say that, show us where?  Its not that difficult to quote.

No time wpalczynski, tried that with Smooth & the gang 8 weeks ago and it's like water off a ducks back.  Policing Monero trolls is a full time job.  For example just now they made a new poll that I saw Smooth post on then delete it once I did - That ones going out to 500 Alt threads apparently, I guess in future the results will help lots of people who need to "correct" any "wrong-think" they may have that Market cap is important, by funneling votes into the correct poll decision and diluting the rest. Yet another ingenious move by the Monero marketing team Institute of "Correct-Think".  And of course the ambush on CoinMarketCap is ongoing as they haven't "corrected" their information yet to comply with the Monero Polit Bureau's instructions on how coins must be listed. Plus all the usual instamine / scam / Evan's breakfast threads.  Maybe get some help over here?

[0nlyBTC]

never sell at a lost and buy cheap moneroj 

[generalizethis]

Blocka, if you don't want to defend an instamine, don't defend an instamine.

As for speculation (topic) looks like Otoh can't dump Monero into oblivion. Everyday that passes looks like a launchpad being assembled for a db fueled rocket. Can't wait until services start opening up and use gathers momentum. Are there any plans for something that offers large OTC so big trades can be made without over-burdening the price?

[GingerAle]

Blocka, if you don't want to defend an instamine, don't defend an instamine.

As for speculation (topic) looks like Otoh can't dump Monero into oblivion. Everyday that passes looks like a launchpad being assembled for a db fueled rocket. Can't wait until services start opening up and use gathers momentum. Are there any plans for something that offers large OTC so big trades can be made without over-burdening the price?

some options:

#monero-otc (thats the IRC chatroom, be careful though, use escrow)

moneroclub.com (in person OTC or however you arrange it)

and of course buymonero.net ,  where you can get a bot to buy over extended periods of time on the market... so you don't over burden the price

[bumpk1nK]

How many Monero do I need to have in order to be called an XMR whale?

[oblox]

How many Monero do I need to have in order to be called an XMR whale?

>1% of the existing coin supply IMHO.

[explorer]

How many Monero do I need to have in order to be called an XMR whale?

100k would do it.  1/2 of that, maybe a dolphin.

edit:

>1% of the existing coin supply IMHO.

about that, yeah

[bumpk1nK]

How many Monero do I need to have in order to be called an XMR whale?

>1% of the existing coin supply IMHO.

So like how many coins is that and how much do you think it would cost? Are we talking 4 figures, 5 figures, 6 maybe

What's your take on this