Statement about the suspect of recent Bitcoinica hack

[BitBuster]

^yes, its clear that Zhou is full of shit.



A police/legal investigation, if ever successfully launched, would not be possible.

1. Unfamiliarity with Bitcoin of those in the legal industries.
2. Lack of appreciation by legal industries for the technical aspects of bitcoin and other services used by suspects.
3. Scale of the task to construct a case, which involves multiple countries/jurisdictions, is too large for legal industry to be interested as aggrevied bitcoiners are unlikely to be able to financially propel the investigation.

Perhaps the failure of the Intersango Trio/Bitcoinica Consultancy to alert the authorities is a realisation of the above?

The Police, Courts and other institutional authorities will NOT be helping us. Therefore the only option that appears to be available is a vigilante effort, probably resulting in funds being taken from those responsible in ways that may breach laws themselves.

That is the stark choice facing the community that is without legal support: illegally recover the funds or roll over and wait for the next time.


BB.

[Clipse]

I await a new fantastic fairytale story from Zhou regarding the clear fact that the LR transfers went to his own personal LR account as stated on the last page.

[Vladimir]

A police/legal investigation, if ever successfully launched, would not be possible.

How convenient! And you know what, it is bullshit!

[Coinoisseur]

USD was taken as well, authorities are well versed in dealing with USD based crimes. Law enforcement has recovered virtual furniture and goods before so I also challenge the claim they would be incapable of dealing with bitcoins.

Also, the NZ financial authorities can be notified by an affected party. Bitcoinica was improperly, imo, listed as not dealing with the public. Also, imo, this was to avoid having to submit any dispute resolution documents and catching the eye of regulators.

[greyhawk]

EVERY VICTIM OF BITCOINICA HEIST/FRAUD/NEGLIGENCE/WHATEVER,

I have a suggestion for you. Pick up a phone (101 in UK), go to local police station, whatever the procedure is in your locality and file a crime report, press charges, provide police with as many details as possible such as company names, and addresses, names and addresses of people involved into these companies, bank account numbers, BTC addresses, amounts of fiat and bitcoins that you and reportedly others have lost, timeline of events as known to you.

And let the chips fall where they will.

Officer Joe : "And what exactly are those Coinbits you had stolen from you?"

Victim: "Bitcoins. They're like a currency only for the internets, you know?"

Officer Joe: "I've never heard of this? Bob, have you ever heard of this?"

Officer Bob: "Is that like them there Facebook Money for the Amazons?"

Victim: "Yes.. No.. Kinda like that but ..."

Officer Bob: "Mah Darlene is always buying dem Facebook Moneys for dat dere Farm game, ya know? I says: Darlene, stop playing with them Farmbooks and get out there to feed them cows!"

Officer Joe: "So you got your computer game dollars stolen? Is that what we're talking about?"

Victim: "NO! It's not for Facebook. It's for buying.... other stuff..."

Officer Stan joining in: "I bet it's porn. Look at 'im blushing. I know it. I said it. It's porn."

Victim: "NO! It's not porn! There's this place called the Silk Road and... and...aaand... ooooh, look at the time... Toodles!"

[Vladimir]

[...lots of BS skipped...]

Yea, and it should be taken on authority of "Founder of Finance Financial". Grow up first.

How about this version:

Officer Joe : "Could you please tell us your name, address, and phone number?"
Victim: "This and that..."
Officer Joe : "What is the reason for your call?"
Victim: "A group of people have scammed me, represented themselves as a legitimate financial service and then have stolen my deposit in amount of XXXX$ and YYYY BTC"
Officer Joe : "BTC?"
Victim: "BTC mean Bitcoin, it is a virtual currency that has market value of approximately 8$ per 1 BTC".
Officer Joe : "Could you please give me name and contact details of that company and those people you have referred to earlier?"
Victim: "Yep, I have everything here prepared for you, I can also email to you all the details I have".
Officer Joe : "Would you be able to come to the station to give us some more details on this or alternatively an officer could visit you at home or workplace and ask a few further questions about this"
[they set up appointment...]
Officer Joe: Please write down your crime reference number....

Now which one will it be? Of course, if you live in Honduras or something, you might need to give them a goat as a token of your appreciation, perhasp... lol

[repentance]

A police/legal investigation, if ever successfully launched, would not be possible.

How convenient! And you know what, it is bullshit!

Of course it's bullshit.  Most - if not all - of the countries involved have specialised computer and financial crimes units and police regularly call in civilian experts to assist with their investigations (especially universities).  There are plenty of technology experts they can call on for assistance.

The prosecution is not the financial burden of the victims in criminal cases - the only people who would have to worry about legal fees would be the accused.

It's known that both financial intelligence units and federal police departments are aware of Bitcoin.  They may welcome a criminal investigation in which it's a central feature as an opportunity to learn more in general about how Bitcoin, crime and the exchanges intersect.  It's not like it would be a local county police department investigating this matter.  I think you're all underestimating how many young, tech savvy people work in law enforcement and financial intelligence.

[occulta]

OP: BULLSHIT!

OP: BULLSHIT!

OP: BULLSHIT!

Money back please.

[Serge]

EVERY VICTIM OF BITCOINICA HEIST/FRAUD/NEGLIGENCE/WHATEVER,

I have a suggestion for you. Pick up a phone (101 in UK), go to local police station, whatever the procedure is in your locality and file a crime report, press charges, provide police with as many details as possible such as company names, and addresses, names and addresses of people involved into these companies, bank account numbers, BTC addresses, amounts of fiat and bitcoins that you and reportedly others have lost, timeline of events as known to you.

And let the chips fall where they will.

Officer Joe : "And what exactly are those Coinbits you had stolen from you?"

Victim: "Bitcoins. They're like a currency only for the internets, you know?"

Officer Joe: "I've never heard of this? Bob, have you ever heard of this?"

Officer Bob: "Is that like them there Facebook Money for the Amazons?"

Victim: "Yes.. No.. Kinda like that but ..."

Officer Bob: "Mah Darlene is always buying dem Facebook Moneys for dat dere Farm game, ya know? I says: Darlene, stop playing with them Farmbooks and get out there to feed them cows!"

Officer Joe: "So you got your computer game dollars stolen? Is that what we're talking about?"

Victim: "NO! It's not for Facebook. It's for buying.... other stuff..."

Officer Stan joining in: "I bet it's porn. Look at 'im blushing. I know it. I said it. It's porn."

Victim: "NO! It's not porn! There's this place called the Silk Road and... and...aaand... ooooh, look at the time... Toodles!"

Are you saying that act of stealing is only recognized applicable to real money, and stealing anything else isn't considered as such LOL

[greyhawk]

No it was an attempt at humour, but I forgot I'm dealing with a professional forum full of professional industry professionals here.

[Vod]

so in 69 minutes and 32 seconds you called this guy whom you know only little, reached him, explained the situation to him, clarified the hack, convinced him to return the coins, calculated an estimate return and wrote the lengthy statement...

are you kidding me?

+1

The guy is clearly a thief.  I hope some vigilantes find him and break his legs, as a warning to future thief wanna-be types.

[sarpar]

But still good luck building a case in china...
You must have had a HUGE account with bitcoinica building such an international case ranging into corruption havens such as china.
Not even if I possessed all bitcoinica funds I would waste my funds for taking a chance there. In relation to internationally enforced cases we are talking about peanuts here.


...but as I stated earlier not all bitcoiners are pacific hackers - I personally from what I know would fear for my life being involved in this.
For all those still hoping for their fund - write it off finally and enjoy the crime story evolving.

[Raoul Duke]

EVERY VICTIM OF BITCOINICA HEIST/FRAUD/NEGLIGENCE/WHATEVER,

I have a suggestion for you. Pick up a phone (101 in UK), go to local police station, whatever the procedure is in your locality and file a crime report, press charges, provide police with as many details as possible such as company names, and addresses, names and addresses of people involved into these companies, bank account numbers, BTC addresses, amounts of fiat and bitcoins that you and reportedly others have lost, timeline of events as known to you.

And let the chips fall where they will.

Officer Joe : "And what exactly are those Coinbits you had stolen from you?"

Victim: "Bitcoins. They're like a currency only for the internets, you know?"

Officer Joe: "I've never heard of this? Bob, have you ever heard of this?"

Officer Bob: "Is that like them there Facebook Money for the Amazons?"

Victim: "Yes.. No.. Kinda like that but ..."

Officer Bob: "Mah Darlene is always buying dem Facebook Moneys for dat dere Farm game, ya know? I says: Darlene, stop playing with them Farmbooks and get out there to feed them cows!"

Officer Joe: "So you got your computer game dollars stolen? Is that what we're talking about?"

Victim: "NO! It's not for Facebook. It's for buying.... other stuff..."

Officer Stan joining in: "I bet it's porn. Look at 'im blushing. I know it. I said it. It's porn."

Victim: "NO! It's not porn! There's this place called the Silk Road and... and...aaand... ooooh, look at the time... Toodles!"

OH. I get what you mean: Cops in your country are almost as STUPID as you.

Thank you for the clarification. Now crawl back to SA, douchebag.

[Littleshop]

EVERY VICTIM OF BITCOINICA HEIST/FRAUD/NEGLIGENCE/WHATEVER,

I have a suggestion for you. Pick up a phone (101 in UK), go to local police station, whatever the procedure is in your locality and file a crime report, press charges, provide police with as many details as possible such as company names, and addresses, names and addresses of people involved into these companies, bank account numbers, BTC addresses, amounts of fiat and bitcoins that you and reportedly others have lost, timeline of events as known to you.

And let the chips fall where they will.

Officer Joe : "And what exactly are those Coinbits you had stolen from you?"

Victim: "Bitcoins. They're like a currency only for the internets, you know?"

Officer Joe: "I've never heard of this? Bob, have you ever heard of this?"

Officer Bob: "Is that like them there Facebook Money for the Amazons?"

Victim: "Yes.. No.. Kinda like that but ..."

Officer Bob: "Mah Darlene is always buying dem Facebook Moneys for dat dere Farm game, ya know? I says: Darlene, stop playing with them Farmbooks and get out there to feed them cows!"

Officer Joe: "So you got your computer game dollars stolen? Is that what we're talking about?"

Victim: "NO! It's not for Facebook. It's for buying.... other stuff..."

Officer Stan joining in: "I bet it's porn. Look at 'im blushing. I know it. I said it. It's porn."

Victim: "NO! It's not porn! There's this place called the Silk Road and... and...aaand... ooooh, look at the time... Toodles!"

Are you saying that act of stealing is only recognized applicable to real money, any stealing anything else isn't considered as such??? LOL

The USD part if brought to the attention of the authorities would be at least investigated.  I can not say the same for the BTC part.  So far, no BTC theft that we know of has been treated as a real theft by any government agency.  

BTC theft for the time being may be treated similar to other "in game currency" thefts or ponzis.  

http://www.diedagain.com/eve-ponzi-scheme-nets-over-50k-in-swindled-profit

[goodlord666]

This is only vaguely related but:

At first everyone's like "Yeah, fuck state government and central authority. We don't need them to run our economy! Let the people take their money into their own hands! Bitcoin FTW!" In fact, this forum is full of slogans like that.

But as soon as people lose their precious coins due to their own carelessness and greed to a dubious enterprise in the East they all go running for law, police and central authority to rescue their asses.

And you know what happens when you ask authority for help: they will place their protective palms on your butts and slowly move their middle finger up your cavities.

I'd rather have a glass of champagne with that Chinese millionaire and take a look at his relic collection (and maybe steal one) than listen to a heard of sheep whining and complaining to authority.

Most of y'all early adopters will lose most of their coins anyway and still end up richer than today. Just you wait!


[/yadda yadda]

[Vod]

But as soon as people lose their precious coins due to their own carelessness and greed to a dubious enterprise in the East they all go running for law, police and central authority to rescue their asses.

How is an inside job our carelessness?

[Clipse]

This is only vaguely related but:

At first everyone's like "Yeah, fuck state government and central authority. We don't need them to run our economy! Let the people take their money into their own hands! Bitcoin FTW!" In fact, this forum is full of slogans like that.

But as soon as people lose their precious coins due to their own carelessness and greed to a dubious enterprise in the East they all go running for law, police and central authority to rescue their asses.

And you know what happens when you ask authority for help: they will place their protective palms on your butts and slowly move their middle finger up your cavities.

I'd rather have a glass of champagne with that Chinese millionaire and take a look at his relic collection (and maybe steal one) than listen to a heard of sheep whining and complaining to authority.

Most of y'all early adopters will lose most of their coins anyway and still end up richer than today. Just you wait!


[/yadda yadda]

Correct, so if we dont get the law involved then we will have to handle this ourself.

Which do you think is the better approach? The court or the knife ?

On a side note, Zhou, I recall you stating spending most of your money to pay off your parents home... well buddy since its money that came from your pocket you better start getting a morgage or sale price on that home since it would be owned by you as the financial contributor if taken to court which would in turn mean the house funds belong to the bitcoinica users.

Sucks to be you, I mean sucks to get caught.

[Vladimir]

At first everyone's like "Yeah, fuck state government and central authority. We don't need them to run our economy! Let the people take their money into their own hands! Bitcoin FTW!" In fact, this forum is full of slogans like that.

Not everyone, just a particular kind of libertards.

[BitBuster]

How convenient! And you know what, it is bullshit!

I would love to be proven wrong but fear that I won't be.

USD was taken as well, authorities are well versed in dealing with USD based crimes. Law enforcement has recovered virtual furniture and goods before so I also challenge the claim they would be incapable of dealing with bitcoins.

I see what you mean but do not believe similar cases are relevant to bitcoin, which has not been subject of any significant court proceedings.

Of course it's bullshit.  Most - if not all - of the countries involved have specialised computer and financial crimes units and police regularly call in civilian experts to assist with their investigations (especially universities).  There are plenty of technology experts they can call on for assistance.

Of course they can, however, legally bitcoin will be dismissed as a criminal money-laundering network for which there are no "victims".

The prosecution is not the financial burden of the victims in criminal cases - the only people who would have to worry about legal fees would be the accused.

Only when the "victims" have won the case will the accussed have to pay their fees and damages. That does not account for being able to financially propel a prosecution for the length of any investigations and court proceedings. Go on, ask a lawyer to work on your behalf for free in lieu of payment after success. Indeed, the accumulated cost of bringing this whole saga to court will cost more than what was originally stolen.

In theory a court case may be possible, but by considering just a few practicalities, it seems highly unlikely.

This is only vaguely related but:

At first everyone's like "Yeah, fuck state government and central authority. We don't need them to run our economy! Let the people take their money into their own hands! Bitcoin FTW!" In fact, this forum is full of slogans like that.

But as soon as people lose their precious coins due to their own carelessness and greed to a dubious enterprise in the East they all go running for law, police and central authority to rescue their asses.

And you know what happens when you ask authority for help: they will place their protective palms on your butts and slowly move their middle finger up your cavities.

I'd rather have a glass of champagne with that Chinese millionaire and take a look at his relic collection (and maybe steal one) than listen to a heard of sheep whining and complaining to authority.

Most of y'all early adopters will lose most of their coins anyway and still end up richer than today. Just you wait!

[/yadda yadda]

This man speaks sense.

Not everyone, just a particular kind of libertards.

You don't have the luxury to pick and choose. Bitcoin exists outside of institutional (legal) control and protection. We cannot have our cake and eat it.


BB.

[Coinoisseur]

I know at least in the US you can still face charges for committing crimes against other criminals or suspect organizations.

People have been convicted for extorting others using evidence of criminal behavior, fyi.

Of course they can, however, legally bitcoin will be dismissed as a criminal money-laundering network for which there are no "victims".

And as for "QQ you are using a stateless currency so too bad", that is a statement I can understand when dealing directly through the bitcoin network. Dealing with a registered business and mixing in government currencies changes the situation significantly.