Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com

[timmmers]

People does not think!

WHY should anyone sell a device which are generating $1600+ per month for about $ 400

make sense, doesn´t it?

Simple answer. Greed. They put on their greed goggles and see only a huge profit. All sense is lost.
Same type of person who sends money to claim their Nigerian gold mine. lol

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[plasmoske]

People does not think!

WHY should anyone sell a device which are generating $1600+ per month for about $ 400

make sense, doesn´t it?

Simple answer. Greed. They put on their greed goggles and see only a huge profit. All sense is lost.
Same type of person who sends money to claim their Nigerian gold mine. lol

or to KNC. . .. lol. I kid. I kid

[thy]

VAT should be included in the price on anything(that has VAT added, witch is pretty much everything in Sweden) that you buy from a company based in Sweden.
The VAT that is added is 25% on these type of things in Sweden, so the price without VAT is 80% of what you paid, for example on the    6 995 usd miner it's price is in reallity 5596 USD and has 1399 USD added in VAT(Moms). If your in another EU country thats all you have to pay. Theoretically if your in another country with lower VAT you may be able to get the Swedish VAT you paid for the miner refunded if you collect the miner in person in Sweden and manage to convince the costums it's a tourist mergendise you bought, but that is a bit far fetched i guess, anyway you will then get a refund on the Swedish VAT (1399 USD) and instead pay (your lower) VAT in your own country if you succed with that....

[soy]

 Then one would telnet in, like with Putty, or SSH in and again like with Putty.

Did they specify that they will give users shell access at all? All I've seen is that they will give users web access to configure cgminer running on the embedded system. Are they using the OrSOC OpenRISC development board for this? Unfortunately all the links with more details at the OrSOC website http://www.orsoc.se/?p=127 are broken and return 404 - File or directory not found.

Can't answer the question.  This was just a stab at explaining how it might be done to someone apparently with even less information than I.

[soy]

well if they use a Raspberry Pi. then its open game.

Not what I said.

[jlsminingcorp]

You pay VAT on things you PURCHASE, not on things you create. Not all things you purchase attract VAT either, gold and currency for example don't among many other items.
VAT is a way for government to collect tax from the consumer by using businesses to do this. VAT is also 20% not 23% here. If you can claim the VAT back, you can more than likely claim the computer equipment as a capital business expense and get some of the cost back from the tax man too.

Hi Timmers, sounds like you might be in the UK (sorry if I've made a gross assumption here). I've been wondering this for a while and you (or others) may have an accountancy background and may be able to advise. My understanding is that if you're a VAT registered business in the UK then you can buy items for the business without VAT (or claim it back in your quarterly VAT return), but you are then obliged to collect VAT at 20% for any goods or services that you provide to your customers (unless they are also a VAT registered businesses) and fill in a quarterly VAT return for HMRC where all of this is calculated.

I presume that if you are buying mining hardware for your business and your business does not use this to provide a VATable service to a customer then you presumably don't need to pay any VAT (which I think is what you're saying above). You would just need to pay tax on the income that the miner generates for the business. The only danger with this setup might be that if the business is not charging anybody VAT (so not providing any other goods or services) then HMRC might revoke the business' VAT-registered status. If you were to buy a miner without VAT and then sell it to a customer then it's clear that you would need to charge the customer VAT on the price of the miner. Here's the difficult one - if your business buys a miner and then sells shares in that miner (or shares in what it produces depending on your outlook) to customers then do you need to collect VAT on top of the price of the shares that you sell? If the miner technically remains the property of the business, but shares are sold that return a proportion of the miner's output (perhaps with some hosting fee applied by the business) then what part of that transaction is VAT applicable to (is the hosting fee the service)? Any thoughts anybody?

(By the way, when I say "you" above I'm talking about a hypothetical business by the way, not you or anybody else personally)

[Nemo1024]

A couple of weeks ago I asked KnC about their status with Cgminer. They replied pretty fast and here's what they said:

Sam will be contacting Kano and will be posting in the forum soon.

Our devices will be shipped with CGMiner preinstalled, this has been further configured to work with our miners. You have access to the Linux platform via SSH to install any other mining software you wish.

Regards,
Liam

Med vänlig hälsning  |  Best regards
Liam Vardy  

[Phoenix1969]

Radical, ssh access!, woohooooo
not just a miner really.  So-Dimm - Linux with Web GUI & ssh access
Ethernet AND USB with updatable & expandable innards
Certainly the most advanced miners ever offered
nice
Makes other brands look like toys IMHO.

[btcusr]

- CoinTera - 2000G#, 2U sized miner for $14,000 - by, Dec 2013

- KNCMiner - 400G# miner for $5000 (2000G# for $25,000) - by, Oct 2013

Hi kncminer, how would you justify $14K vs. $25K price difference?! 2 months of lead time?

[Phoenix1969]

- CoinTera - 2000G#, 2U sized miner for $14,000 - by, Dec 2013

- KNCMiner - 400G# miner for $5000 (2000G# for $25,000) - by, Oct 2013

Hi kncminer, how would you justify $14K vs. $25K price difference?! 2 months of lead time?

KNC Jupiter for 5000 is mid November Delivery, not October, but will be closer to 500 gh/s if you've been paying attention, Cointerra has pretty much admitted they will be late as well, but yes, if you calc the diff doubling every month like it has of late, you will see plenty of justification.

[ImI]

- CoinTera - 2000G#, 2U sized miner for $14,000 - by, Dec 2013

- KNCMiner - 400G# miner for $5000 (2000G# for $25,000) - by, Oct 2013

Hi kncminer, how would you justify $14K vs. $25K price difference?! 2 months of lead time?

u know. two months is a lot these days.

[btc_uzr]

- CoinTera - 2000G#, 2U sized miner for $14,000 - by, Dec 2013

- KNCMiner - 400G# miner for $5000 (2000G# for $25,000) - by, Oct 2013

Hi kncminer, how would you justify $14K vs. $25K price difference?! 2 months of lead time?

I'd like to point out the increasing difficulty as main factor in regards to the difference in value/price.

[baloo_kiev]

It's September, so I guess you guys already have a working prototype

[jelin1984]

of course they have it
but is not for public
is secret miner

[baloo_kiev]

of course they have it
but is not for public
is secret miner

Sure, like BFL miners which had been 'secret' for 9 months until they first showed it

[samo]

Phoenix, Orama, What do you guys think about knc doing something similar to Asicminer and sell shares with dividends once the asic miner bullrush has subsided a bit?

[vesperwillow]

If I'm not mistaken, Cointerra is a US-based company as well. If that were the case, one upside is faster delivery and less cost for shipping/possible customs.

The Cointerra unit is also 4 chip like KNC's, but higher density and a higher thermal dissipation requirement. I like their liquid cooling platform.

Let's not forget that first-gen products are always higher cost, to recoup R&D. Or in BFL's case, to keep kicking the horse down the trail.

[Phoenix1969]

Phoenix, Orama, What do you guys think about knc doing something similar to Asicminer and sell shares with dividends once the asic miner bullrush has subsided a bit?

I hope not. I'm surely "Two thumbs down" on any group-buy/shares.
Simply put... they try to centralize a tentatively de-centralized operation, while taking advantage of people who are not too number-savvy imho.

[Bitcoinorama]

Phoenix, Orama, What do you guys think about knc doing something similar to Asicminer and sell shares with dividends once the asic miner bullrush has subsided a bit?

Anythings possible if the community want it, but they promised to not mine with more than 5% of what they sell, and the priority is to get these boxes and thus the network distributed far and wide, both physically and in terms of ownership. In essense the hosting is a similar model as they are kept together location wise just the shares are somewhat more expensive.

Still they listen, if you guys want it, ask. I believe once we pass the point in the future in which hashrate does inevitably become difficult to compete against with respect to electricity supply in people's houses (at least a year away and in another gen) it will evenetually go that way on the retail side as at least in the US they (you?) are kinda stuck with 110v. Here in Europe, we have a bit more flexibility time wise, with respect to supplying electricity ourselves. For sure hosting will be the way ahead without question once a cryptocurrency's network becomes so large and secure...

[Phoenix1969]

actually O'rama, we (Americans) have both 110 & 220 installed in most households. Just the 220 is usually used for large appliances, like ovens & driers, also come with a plug end(pigtail) the size of a small fist....lol (But it's also @ 60 hz, instead of 50)