Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[nullius]

I am a bit bothered by Tyler's use of the word "crypto" - even though i understand that it could be a camouflaging term.

I agree, I'm bothered anytime anyone says "crypto" or the "whole crypto space" and also implies Bitcoin^TM. It's insulting to wrap up Bitcoin^TM in with all of the other crap.

True, yes—but oh, it’s much worse than that.

I use strong crypto to secure my e-mail, to protect my Internet usage against spies, to authenticate my identity, and to prevent potential thieves from reading the hard disk of my laptop.

I remember the First Crypto Wars of the 90s.

I love crypto.  I have been using crypto since long before Bitcoin ever existed; indeed, it was my longtime interest in crypto that got me interested in Bitcoin, not vice versa.  Crypto is much bigger than Bitcoin:  Bitcoin is only one of the most interesting applications of crypto, the fulfillment of the dreams of those who remember the Digicash meltdown and all the cypherpunks talk about the future of money based on strong cryptography.

It grates on my sanity to see shitcoin scammers demanding KYC for airdrop ICO free ponies get rich quick crypto crypto buzzword FREE ponies hype crypto , please Sir I crypto bounties , all in the name of “crypto” , t̵̗̮̭͇̲̓͆̚h̸̢̛͎̜̥̺̊́̆̅̕͠e̸̡̻̺̣̯͉̹̽ ̵̟̙̥̦̦̍̾̂̑h̴̖̥̝̬̞̖̭͒͝i̷̡̦̓̎̑d̸̡̡̮͖͍̗͇̎̉͑̽̾͠d̵̢͇̾̍̒e̴͎̖̥̖̔̀͗̕͜͜n̶̦͚͎̝̓̽͂͂́̋͌ ̸̨̝̹̘̆͠ģ̴̲̜͚̭̐̈́̀͌̄͜o̷̫̙͒̀͂͜͜ͅḑ̸̱̹̘̤̬̅̊̌̈́͒͛͘s̶̢̫͇̒̑ ̴̨̻̬̼̱̝͔̾͊̉̍̍̅̇W̸̮͒̅̿̅̊̃̐͜E̴̤͍̼̅̓͑̀̔̃͘E̵̟̎P̴̗̦͑̆̉ ̴̣̼̎͗̎͆a̵̝̒̑̃̔͊ṥ̷̳̑̉̑ ̵͖͕͓͕͐͌͜͝a̵̼̰͖̗̒͛l̵̘̦̫̰͖͙̋l̵͇̗̩̘̫̓͌̿ ̵̩̲͕̼̅̔̓̍̈́͜c̷̠̻̫̣̽̇͘r̴̬̩̔̈́̋̆y̵̨̧͔̪̪̪̘̌ṕ̶̩̆̂t̸̡̻͐ő̸̞̲͘͘-̴̯̩͔̬̠̦̙̆̀̂̕g̸̡̞̩͎͛̈́͜ò̵̠̞͗̅̀̀̆o̷̗͈̥͈̬͕̒̂d̵̖͙̣͋͗̾n̵̢̡͙͑͋͊̉́e̶̼̪͊̍̄̓s̸̨̗͓̻̈̍̈́̈́͊̚͘s̴̡̗̞̮̬̱͌̆ ̸̲̫̝̿̒̏̎į̸̱̜̹͎̩̋͋̇͜s̶̹͙̺̘̓̎̒͌̆ͅ ̸̱̰̃̕͝D̵̫͓͑E̶͖͓͌̈́̓F̷̟̭̖̬̼͖͉̾̃̄̈̋I̵̺̩̥̦͖̫̓̆̈̚L̶̼̟̭̫͚͚͆ͅĚ̴̡͈̼͍͙̞̆̏̊Ḋ̸͔͉̿̕ ̶̥͙̬̣͇̰͈̂,̷̠̲̰̣̦̯͓̿͝ ̴͙̋̆H̴̰͙̲̫͒̀Ȩ̵̗͓̩̘̦̘̀̌͑̃L̷͉̍͋̕P̷̢̪̠͆̀̚ ̴͉̭͉̻̬͉͐͝Ḿ̷̬̼͓͐̿́E̶͖̓̀̉̌͝ ̸͔̥̓̓̀̊̍͊̄W̵̜̘̻̋̓ͅẸ̴̢͍̘̖̐̌̒͘ ̶̛̲̗̭̙͖̏̈́̈́̌̂̕A̷̢̗̼̍̍͘̚Ŕ̶̯̺̠̋̈̐̊͜Ē̶͎̈́̿̊ ̶̛̰̮̦̥̤̇͒̀̒͆A̵̢̨̤̗̭̙͒̉͘͘C̶̢͈̠͂̄̀C̶̘̺̖̻̭͚̝̓̋̌̿̚U̶̡̡͉̥͈̬͇͌̈̓̀R̸̲̳̣̲̲̳̟̎͆͛S̷̩̟̹͆́͑͋͐̚̕Ė̸̦͙̝̓̒̏͘͘͝D̸̳̺̺̞̝͌̂̾͂͂ ̵̮̩͙̲̘̞̅Ń̴̤O̷̘̥͋̊̀̚T̵̹̫̙̯̤̓ ̴͉͙̪͎͎̦̑̈́̂̄͝B̸̗͍͓̑̍̾͐͝Y̷̨͈̫͋̓͋̀̂̑ ̶͇̐͐̀̊D̶̙̗̝͖̬̖͗̃̈́̀Ĕ̵̢̥̯̜̠̱͓̀̑̿́V̴̰͙̜̺̖̮͕́́͂̽Ĭ̶̪͙͖̼̜̑̒̽L̷̝͐Š̴̺ ̴̡̨̫͎̍͗̈̆̚͜͝B̵̼͎̅̇̓͒̀̉ͅÛ̵̠̾̿̔͒͑͊T̴͇͍̰̍͂͒̍͌͜͜͝ ̸͎͙͕̮͆̏̉̈́̊̅͜B̴̢̻͎͍̥̯̳̆̃̋̀̚Y̷̛̲̖͓̖͚͈̹͋͒ ̶̧̼̟̹͍̉̈́̐͐̒̿ͅP̵̯͋͛È̴̫̗͇̫̤T̷̢̨̬̞͌͑́̚T̵͙̲̤̮̅̋͑Y̶̧̫̙̠͈̓̈͝ ̵̧̠͈̿̋S̵̠͌̑̂̌͘T̷̰͍̲̋̅͂͛Ư̶̧̯̘̠͖̠̏̏P̶̡̨̦̣̭͚̪͐̌I̴̡̞̥͇̘̓́̅Ḑ̴͖̠͕̟̞̤͒̈́Ȉ̸̬̭̻͈͑T̷̲̘͉̘̰̅Y̶̢̢͈̝̹̙̠͒͌ ̷̨̨̝̩̝̑̀͘Ṫ̶͈̣̭̗̙͛Ḩ̸̠͈̫̘̝̉̌Ā̵̩͕͑̀̓͝T̷̮̒̿̌̉́̾̒ ̸̰̪͙͉̠͗̀̒̕C̴̙̲̀̇̿̑͘̕O̶͔͉̝̜̹̻͌̍̐͗Ñ̶̡̗̘̼̎̀̐̐͘͝Ş̷̯̺̇͛U̴̹̰̺̹̅̈͋̆͂͘M̸̭͚̺̆̽̏͑́̀͝E̸͍̫̫̻̯̾̏́͊ͅͅS̴̨̺̹̮̺̹̯͑̿̈́̈ ̴͎͎̯̂Ḁ̶̗͆̿̊̒̑ͅL̵̡̞̫̲̪̺͋̈́̊L̷̞̞̮̍́̆̑͒ ̴̳̟͎̼̖́̓̈́̍̈I̴̝̲̐Ṇ̶̢̨͎͈̞̠̐͐͐̓̀̚ ̶̨̜̮̖̗͝Í̸̭̺̈́̇͌͐̚͝T̵̟̗͔͋̈͊͊̈́͋͝S̵̛͎͙̻̖̞̿̀͑̾̍͜ ̴̧̣̲͉͚̈̾͆́̾͝͠P̵̥͓̹̫̳̙̲̀̈́̅̓̃̄̕Ä̵̖̥̃̄T̵͕̭̠̲̓̅̽̍H̵̘̩͑̒͒

[1686065642]

1686065642

[1686065642]

1686065642

[1686065642]

1686065642

[1686065642]

1686065642

[LFC_Bitcoin]

You know it’s confirmed that the bottom has been seen when proudhon is in the WO, trolling relentlessly.

$11,000 by Sunday night.

[El duderino_]

The run to ATH has started

Continues

Math’s and science

Continuing

Math and science prove bitcoin cannot ever have an ATH again. I did the calculations and have been studying the best Chinese and Russian sources, just as I did so many years ago.

Where almost there .... at ..... ATH

It’s not to far away anymore

Tik tak tik tak.....

Be on the CCMF

Or don’t .... each persons own choice

I’m on it, most important for me....

[JayJuanGee]

I am a bit bothered by Tyler's use of the word "crypto" - even though i understand that it could be a camouflaging term.

Most of us active in this particular thread know that there would not be hardly any ability for the various shitcoins to flourish in their lil funzies without the underlying security that bitcoin provides the whole space..... Many of the shitcoins, defi and yield farming can proclaim that they are decentralized (when they are not) because they are operating under the ruse that bitcoin is secure in that decentralized sense.

I agree, I'm bothered anytime anyone says "crypto" or the "whole crypto space" and also implies Bitcoin^TM. It's insulting to wrap up Bitcoin^TM in with all of the other crap.

That's like implying a company like Alphabet is even in the same league as all of the pink sheet penny scam companies, just because they are all considered "equities".

There is simply Bitcoin^TM, and then there is everything else....a steaming pile of crypto shitcoin scam crap, designed to part fools from their hard earned money.

The problem is that n00bs coming in to the "crypto space" cannot tell the difference, or are struggling to tell the difference.

I do remain a wee bit uncertain how to deal with the matter, and frequently, I will criticize others for their vagueness or their lack of explanation when they employ the term.  

Even though I continue to agree with the overall sentiment in your above statement, Torque, I do believe that this space continues to evolve, and how we describe the space is going to continue to evolve, too.

I am not suggesting that I am inclined to start to be less denigrating towards the variety of shitcoinery, and especially in a thread like this, we have to be careful NOT to give too much benefit of the doubt to any shitcoins, ICOs, defi tokens/projects, yield farming, etc. because it just seems like a slippery slope that devolves into off-topicness - so probably in that regard, it continues to be way better to merely cursorily dismiss the various shitcoins and projects in this thread.  

I suppose to the extent that any of us might be inclined to really get involved in those various projects, we would discuss those efforts outside of this thread.

Another ongoing problem that we have is trying to figure out BTC price movements and BTC price dynamics.. whether long term or short term - and surely, it would seem quite incomplete to NOT account for some of the ongoing shicoinery shenanigans.....

So probably several of us are going to employ differing frameworks when attempting to characterize the variety of factors that we believe to be affecting BTC's price, and not only might we be wrong from time to time, we might not really be able to anticipate which kinds of projects are going to come out of various spaces whether we are referring to shitcoins or even if we are considering how the fed money printing policies are playing out and even various other traditional markets - equities or otherwise.  Lots of balls to have in the air that seem to have certain kinds of effects on BTC in terms of trying to figure out 1) how we got to our current place in BTC, 2) where we are exactly, and 3) where we might be going (short term or even long term).

I love crypto.  I have been using crypto since long before Bitcoin ever existed; indeed, it was my longtime interest in crypto that got me interested in Bitcoin, not vice versa.  Crypto is much bigger than Bitcoin:  

You know better than that, nullius.

When some of us are getting pissed off by the use of the term crypto, we don't know what the fuck the author might be talking about.  Are they talking about bitcoin or some other crypto currency that is also known as a shitcoin.  They better fucking specify instead of being vague.

And, sure, sometimes it is not even the author's fault in terms of communicating about crypto because some authors might not even realize that they do not understand how bitcoin is differentiated from the various other projects that they lump into the "crypto" category.

Those of us who are worked up about the vague term of crypto useage these days are not referring to pre-bitcoin useage of the term to the extent that we even understand much of the pre-bitcoin history.  Of course, some folks, like yourself, have a better understanding of some of the pre bitcoin dynamics, and even if that likely helps you in various aspects of life, including being able to differentiate between bitcoin and shitcoins, such cypher or crypto knowledge is still not necessary to appreciate some of the bare basics regarding how bitcoin is distinguished from a variety of shitcoins and why normies (who might not know shit about anything beyond sound money or gresham law principles - which are accessible to almost anyone) should end up recognizing bitcoin as the best place to store their value in terms of principles of sound money that is already somewhat intuitively already understood, even by folks with little or not formal education... whether cryptography, cypher punk or any of those more sophisticated technical and ideological components that underly aspects of bitcoin's historical roots.

[bitserve]

2017 high ~$20,000
2018 high ~$17,000
2019 high ~$14,000
2020 high ~$12,000

Up, up, and...oh wait...

[JayJuanGee]

The run to ATH has started

Continues

Math’s and science

Continuing

Math and science prove bitcoin cannot ever have an ATH again. I did the calculations and have been studying the best Chinese and Russian sources, just as I did so many years ago.

Where almost there .... at ..... ATH

It’s not to far away anymore

Tik tak tik tak.....

Be on the CCMF

Or don’t .... each persons own choice

I’m on it, most important for me....

Sorry about exposing some opsec, here.  Look at the dude trying to talk some sense into the llama.



Doesn't appear to be working out too well, so far.

[Globb0]

Its the Monero guy. Alessio or something?

[Last of the V8s]

fluffy ponytail?

[nullius]

I love crypto.  I have been using crypto since long before Bitcoin ever existed; indeed, it was my longtime interest in crypto that got me interested in Bitcoin, not vice versa.  Crypto is much bigger than Bitcoin:  [Bitcoin is only one of the most interesting applications of crypto,]

You know better than that, nullius.

You misunderstood me.  I added back in brackets an important phrase that you snipped.

Crypto is bigger than Bitcoin, because crypto is bigger than cryptocurrency.

Cryptocurrency is only one application of crypto:  The usage of crypto to create a new form of money.  Usually, if I want to refer to cryptocurrency, I simply talk about Bitcoin.

Similarly, I hate it when people conflate the Internet with the Web.  The Internet is much more than the Web.  The Web is only one application of the Internet, just as Bitcoin is only one application of crypto—and of the Internet, too.

The Internet includes the Bitcoin network.  Well, imagine if people started calling Bitcoin “net”, and then expanded that to start calling any networked monetary application “net”—and then, took to assuming that the word “net” means the latest hyped-up shitcoin scam.  So as for “crypto”.

Those of us who are worked up about the vague term of crypto useage these days are not referring to pre-bitcoin useage of the term to the extent that we even understand much of the pre-bitcoin history.

It’s not a “pre-Bitcoin usage”; the usage is current.  We all use crypto daily in a many ways that have nothing to do with money.

See that padlock in your web browser?  That means crypto.  The point is not pedantic:  It’s a familiar current usage to anyone who is accustomed to discussing, say, the merits of modern crypto in TLS 1.3 AEAD ciphersuites.  Things have much improved since the bad old days of “export crypto”.

See also all the Crypto Wars 3.0 stuff in the United States, with ongoing attempts to ban or seriously restrict crypto so as to protect the poor, innocent sheep from terrorist molesters and child financiers, etc., etc.—who will undoubtedly stop Doing Bad Things and cease to exist, if but only the government will be wise enough to keep uncompromised crypto out of the hands of Obedient Citizens who are are actually worried about what the law says.

“Crypto” means more than money!


If I wanted to be pedantic, I would delve into the senses of the word “crypto” that are unrelated to cryptography.

[serveria.com]

2017 high ~$20,000
2018 high ~$17,000
2019 high ~$14,000
2020 high ~$12,000

Up, up, and...oh wait...

Holy sheeeit trolling prodhon has just entered a whole new level... 

[Indymoney]

[JayJuanGee]

I love crypto.  I have been using crypto since long before Bitcoin ever existed; indeed, it was my longtime interest in crypto that got me interested in Bitcoin, not vice versa.  Crypto is much bigger than Bitcoin:  [Bitcoin is only one of the most interesting applications of crypto,]

You know better than that, nullius.

You misunderstood me.  I added back in brackets an important phrase that you snipped.

Crypto is bigger than Bitcoin, because crypto is bigger than cryptocurrency.

Cryptocurrency is only one application of crypto:  The usage of crypto to create a new form of money.  Usually, if I want to refer to cryptocurrency, I simply talk about Bitcoin.

Similarly, I hate it when people conflate the Internet with the Web.  The Internet is much more than the Web.  The Web is only one application of the Internet, just as Bitcoin is only one application of crypto—and of the Internet, too.

Even if I clipped out part of your point, I did not misunderstand the point that you were attempting to make, and you are making it again.

Largely this thread is about bitcoin, so there is no need for us to get into from where bitcoin comes (and under which category it might fit) or technical appreciations of what bitcoin might be and not be... we do not tend to be a technical thread, and those kinds of ideas would largely distract us from applicability questions - and common man understandings which are likely needed.  There are other threads for nuanced technical and nuanced historical discussions.  I doubt this is one of them nor was it even the point that Torque and I were attempting to flesh out.  Largely the point that both Torque and I were discussing has to do with a more narrow understanding of the vagueness in which bitcoin is contexualized or failed to be contexualized within the term crypto, when referring to the concept of crypto currencies, and I do not even believe it helps here to go into further abstraction rather than sticking with the more basic original point(s) that we were attempting to discuss.

The Internet includes the Bitcoin network.  Well, imagine if people started calling Bitcoin “net”, and then expanded that to start calling any networked monetary application “net”—and then, took to assuming that the word “net” means the latest hyped-up shitcoin scam.  So as for “crypto”.

perhaps.. that is kind of related.  Perhaps.

Those of us who are worked up about the vague term of crypto useage these days are not referring to pre-bitcoin useage of the term to the extent that we even understand much of the pre-bitcoin history.

It’s not a “pre-Bitcoin usage”; the usage is current.  We all use crypto daily in a many ways that have nothing to do with money.

See that padlock in your web browser?  That means crypto.  The point is not pedantic:  It’s a familiar current usage to anyone who is accustomed to discussing, say, the merits of modern crypto in TLS 1.3 AEAD ciphersuites.  Things have much improved since the bad old days of “export crypto”.

You are still getting into the weeds of seeming irrelevance.. or at least tangential relevance, at best.

See also all the Crypto Wars 3.0 stuff in the United States, with ongoing attempts to ban or seriously restrict crypto so as to protect the poor, innocent sheep from terrorist molesters and child financiers, etc., etc.—who will undoubtedly stop Doing Bad Things and cease to exist, if but only the government will be wise enough to keep uncompromised crypto out of the hands of Obedient Citizens who are are actually worried about what the law says.

Sure this part is a relevant and ongoing issue in current times.

“Crypto” means more than money!

You are going beyond the point.. because we were talking about crypto in terms of money.. and in terms of convoluting the issue in terms of not specifying bitcoin's role in the actual space in terms of its king daddy status amongst the various snake oil imitations that try to be presented as if they were some how equivalent to bitcoin and there are none that even come close, at least as I type this post.

If I wanted to be pedantic, I would delve into the senses of the word “crypto” that are unrelated to cryptography.

That would be even further off topic, but could be an interesting thread... if a thread on that topic does not already exist.

[Toxic2040]

[philipma1957]

Yep and the real key is gpu/shit coin mining.

here is some cost analysis for a miner.

[...]

I don’t think that this is relevant to Bitcoin’s market prospects.

The notion that Bitcoin is given its value by mining cost, or “backed by electricity”, etc. is a pernicious myth that needs to die.  It is the organic rise of Bitcoin’s value (based on supply and demand) that drives mining cost (and thus, Byzantine security) by increasing hashrate competition.  Not vice versa.

...

....


(Moved, to keep replies in order.)

Interesting argument.  

Lets look at it closer.  There are at least 4,000,000 coins that sit still

this shows 3.84 mill
https://www.cryptoglobe.com/latest/2019/07/bitcoins-untouched-supply-reaches-all-time-high/

and far more amazing


https://news.bitcoin.com/close-to-11-million-btc-havent-moved-in-over-a-year/

this show 11 million untouched for a year.

lets play with 11

18.5 mined
11.0 frozen
  6.5 liquid

and 2.5 to be mined

my argument is that the 2.5 mill left  are costing 6000 watts a day to mine  0.000169 coins.  or around $17.60 plus about 4600 to get the setup

eth has ? left are costing 2100 watts a day to mine around    0.066 eth                                or  around         $24.06 plus about 4600 to get the setup up.

so purchase price is far lower to earn eth which in my case I autovert to btc.

So my point is mining btc via eth is better then mining btc straight across.

These are indicators of a lopsided ratio that favors mining eth to convert to btc.

I can "buy" $24.06 in eth convert to btc and get btc at a discounted price.

Now last week the ratio was stupid high.

about $72.00 in eth convert to btc and get bc at a discount price.

these ratio's are my indicators of future price.

Now if I were Proudhon I would say eth will drop even more and it will level out.

personally I see the opposite I see btc price goin higher so that mining btc direct is better then mining eth and autoverting to btc.

Both of us agree that the scarcity of BTC is driving its value. hodl hodl hodl 11 million hodl for a year straight = great.

I personally think btc will rise about 24/17 x 10200 = 14400 can happen over night so to speak. More so then eth dropping 17/24  x 369 = 261 usd.

Now my gut tells me the BTC mining value will move hard on an upward level and I see 14,400 by sept 30.

Both of us like btc as the key coin. Both of us  like that it is scarce.

I don't use chart analysis like most do here.

I use difficulty and mining profit ratios to determine my future numbers.

I see eth staying at 369 or more and this will cause btc to go up in price.

Farmers will create more demand for btc by doing what I do. Mine eth and auto vert to BTC.

So I see a strong movement here.


Nvidia's new cards are in demand and they will try to pump eth for sales.

That in turn gets more eth miners and since many are exactly like me BTC believers that auto vert to btc.

In fact here is a major pool


https://www.viabtc.com/pool/state

and they now are expanding auto conversion of some coins  to btc.

Many pools auto vert eth and all other shit coins to btc this all  increases demand for btc.

Ie If I mine 2000 usd  day in eth I buy 2000 usd in btc. = higher demand for a scarce coin.

look at my demand for btc below all autovert mining eth to btc
weds 9th —- 0.0326 btc
weds 2nd - - 0.0279 btc
weds 25th -  0.0201 btc
weds 18th - 0.0202. btc
weds 11th - 0.0110. btc

i am not the biggest gpu miner,but there are lots of us.

Look at my demand increase from 0.0110 btc a week to 0.0326 btc a week

now picture 100 like me you move demand from

1.10 btc a week to 3.26 btc a week

now picture 1000 like me you move demand from 11 btc a week to 32.6 btc a week

now picture 10000 like me you move demand from 110 btc a week to 326 btc a week

remember this btc are not mined so they are purchased from the newly mined btc or circulating coins.

at a certain point enough higher priced  eth changing into   btc like i do will drag btc price up.

nicehash mines 33 btc a day with eth

last week it was 11 btc a day with eth

this is a 22 coin a day increase in demand  for btc.

[Toxic2040]

I don't use chart analysis like most do here.

--------
late night charts



45m


tell him a riddle then tickle the genies nose
4h

#stronghands

[nutildah]

SHOCKING: Leaked video of Toxic preparing his charts for posting:

[bitebits]

https://blockstream.info/address/1DGwqAM8mV4aJVPidoBp9Zfz8GKhAzLkma
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/ipcanh/damaged_secret_key/

[Phil_S]

[nutildah]

You've been posting these for months now (I appreciate it because it confirms what I've suspected for about 2 years) and anyone who still doesn't see the correlation between BTC and the general stock market is out of their goddamn minds (cough... JJG).

[BobLawblaw]

https://twitter.com/BitcoinMemeHub/status/1303937002677481480