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Question: What happens first:
$65,000 - 59 (86.8%)
$48,000 - 9 (13.2%)
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Author Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion  (Read 26330487 times)
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nullius
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October 05, 2020, 12:32:06 AM
Last edit: October 05, 2020, 12:43:07 AM by nullius

It makes you ponder:
Isn't democracy fun
When you have no choice?

I am baffled at how people who understand basic economic principles can fail to grasp the most fundamental, unavoidable flaw of mass democracy.

Universal suffrage is vote inflation.  Making everybody “free” by giving everybody a vote is like making everybody “rich” by printing lots of money.

Yes, that is an original observation on my part.  Analogy credit: nullius.

Whereas the institutions of democracy—the government branches, the political parties, the mass media—all together have the rôle of the big banks in the debt-backed fractional reserve monetary system.

Democracy is a scam.

I see a new poll:
Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dumb...

Needs illustration.  Whereas the voting votaries of democracy can belief six impossible things before breakfast!

Tweedledum and Tweedledee

This is why I say:  Don’t vote.  By voting, you grant your moral and practical political endorsements to a corrupt system:  An ochlocracy manipulated by a plutocracy.  The result is kakocracy:  Rule of the worst.
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October 05, 2020, 12:42:56 AM

Quote
Introducing Bitcoin on TRON
We’re excited to be the first to support Bitcoin on TRON (BTCTRON) today! Starting now, Poloniex customers can use our new Swap feature to exchange their Bitcoin to BTCTRON for free directly from within their Poloniex Wallet. BTCTRON is a type of wrapped Bitcoin token that exists on the TRON blockchain.

But...  Whatever for?
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October 05, 2020, 01:21:43 AM

Quote
Introducing Bitcoin on TRON
We’re excited to be the first to support Bitcoin on TRON (BTCTRON) today! Starting now, Poloniex customers can use our new Swap feature to exchange their Bitcoin to BTCTRON for free directly from within their Poloniex Wallet. BTCTRON is a type of wrapped Bitcoin token that exists on the TRON blockchain.

But...  Whatever for?
To trade your real bitcoins for silly shit, you goose!

Oi. Most times trading the cow for magic beans does not work well.....
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October 05, 2020, 01:36:57 AM

Oi. Most times trading the cow for magic beans does not work well.....

Can’t... resist...

– Boyfriend doesn't have enough money, so he trades GF for 1 BTC.
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October 05, 2020, 02:43:35 AM

Oi. Most times trading the cow for magic beans does not work well.....

Can’t... resist...

– Boyfriend doesn't have enough money, so he trades GF for 1 BTC.

Clearly sometimes, it works well.  Reminds me of margin trading.
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October 05, 2020, 02:58:29 AM
Merited by fillippone (2)


Can you understand Spanish?

This is a guide for this, complete with a 3D printable model to properly stamp the words.

https://estudiobitcoin.com/fabrica-tu-billetera-fria-con-arandelas/



Their stamping jig is way better than mine.  But I also designed a simple one if anyone wants the .stl just pm me.  It's for 1" washers.

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October 05, 2020, 02:59:34 AM

Oi. Most times trading the cow for magic beans does not work well.....

Can’t... resist...

– Boyfriend doesn't have enough money, so he trades GF for 1 BTC.

Clearly sometimes, it works well.  Reminds me of margin trading.

Can I borrow your girlfriend on margin to short her?

Mmmm, 100x leverage.
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October 05, 2020, 03:25:25 AM

Oi. Most times trading the cow for magic beans does not work well.....

Can’t... resist...

– Boyfriend doesn't have enough money, so he trades GF for 1 BTC.

Clearly sometimes, it works well.  Reminds me of margin trading.

Can I borrow your girlfriend on margin to short her?

Mmmm, 100x leverage.

Do I retain custody of the magic beans?
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October 05, 2020, 03:26:03 AM
Merited by 600watt (1)


Either you are close to reaching "fuck you" status, or you have already reached it.

Either of those scenarios would be good newses.


Alternatively, you wrongly believe that you have reached "fuck you" status in regards to you are in a kind of denial state about possible "master(s)" that you are failing/refusing to recognize or grant proper credit(s).  That would suck.  Cry

Curious question: If one were to finally achieve "fuck you" status level, what would be the motivation to continue posting around here?

Asking for a friend.

So you believe the only reason to be here is to achieve a goal and then leave?

I feel sorry for anyone in that catagory.


I was joking of course, because otherwise I would have been out of here long ago.  Wink

But clearly that has been the only goal of so many judging from how many posters have dropped off over the years. Sad really.

With the passage of time, it seem to me that we have more regulars in this thread - members who provide decent ongoing contributions, and fewer trolls, too.


(...)

I seriously worry about being able to "cash out" when "fuck you" rich. I fear that, by that time, all the cameras, guns, machetes, rusty pipes and what have you, will be pointing at us HoDLers, even going so far as to label us criminals, DPR v.2 (or is it v.3?), or some other "guilty-until-proven-innocent" accusation. It all depends on how "accepted" Bitcoin will be at that point. And, as you know, timescales in Bitcoin time are very short, meaning that we'll know quite soon. It's all good to imagine an ideal world where TPTB have accepted and even endorsed Bitcoin, but I don't think this will be an easy battle. We may win, but there will be blood.

Of course this "cashing out" may not even be necessary, if things play out in Bitcoin's favour, and BTC (or satoshi, or whatever fraction of a satoshi results from a 2nd layer solution, should 1 BTC > $1M) ends up being usable in buying everyday goods and services. This would be an ideal situation, in which BTC's intrinsic value stays in the BTC realm and we directly use it to survive (food, shelter, Lambos, hookers, blow, the usual necessities). But, somehow, I don't think it will be that easy. Not when the establishment sees their power taken away. They won't surrender without a fight.

My advice is to be prepared for any possible outcome. Personally, I'm more exposed to BTC than I am to more traditional investments, but I can surely survive (and ever enjoy the occasional little pleasures—but nowhere near "fuck you" rich status) without touching my BTC. I just follow the "invest what you can afford to lose" motto, while at the same time supporting and firmly believing that Bitcoin will succeed.

In short, as Bitcoin's value is rising, my feelings are bittersweet. Sweeter than bitter, of course, but there's always that aftertaste you get when chewing a dirty piece of paper...

(...)



Alcohodl, it is ok to get fkn rich due to years of hardened bitcoin hodl. you don't need to be scared. you earned it and folks will admire you for it. I doubt that bitcoiners will have to fear getting robbed more than the casual millionaire next door.

you deserve it because you went down the rabbit whole and put money in some magic internet money shit when everyone laughed about it. you helped this revolution get ignited, you carried the torch in a critical time of its existence. when it was vulnerable.

the bitcoin KI will not forget you and will reward you royally.

it will be easy. the difficult times were the gut wrenching multiyear bears. the next difficult times are now. but the future is bright, bro.

and.. how do you sleep with less than 90% bitcoin exposure?  Cheesy

You see.

It's confirmed that this whole thing is going to be o.k.

Sure, it may not quite be as rosey as 600watt is seeming to make it out to be, including possibilities that some liquidation avenues might dry up from time to time or the terms of the offering of liquidation services may change from time to time and vary based on location.

At the same time, while some liquidation avenues close, other liquidation avenues are likely going to open up too.

How the fuck do we have Bitmex getting prosecuted the fuck out of (at least the filing of criminal charges and putting one of the founders into custody as a kind of hostage situation) - while at the same time, have places like Wyoming authorizing Kraken to become its first bitcoin bank, and people (companies) like Michael Saylor investing around 85% of his company's cash reserves into directly owning bitcoin and other companies like Grayscale and Square equally purchasing nearly the whole new bitcoin mining amount on a daily basis.

We should not be just focusing on the doom and gloom news or even wishing away any bad news by creating a rosey scenario, instead we just need to play out these matters while keeping the vast majority of our coins secured (by ourselves) and maintain and potentially explore and practice some of the liquidation methods on a somewhat regular basis to make sure that there are a few options that exist, for us personally, and if some of our options dry up, then we likely need to seek (and expand into) other liquidation avenues.
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October 05, 2020, 04:21:10 AM

Now, turning back to BitMEX, you did mention jurisdiction:

I am NOT proclaiming that the various departments of the US justice system (who are purportedly representing the interest of the US people) are without a variety of justifications, but surely they need to have jurisdiction over the matters that they are alleging and charging, and due process of law should be allowed, including in criminal cases there are presumptions of innocent until being proved guilty.  Therefore evidence needs to be shown in a court of law, and criminal cases surely have intent elements that must be proven in a court of law, too.

Whereas if jurisdiction is lacking, then why should a defendant suffer trial before a court lacking proper authority, for alleged violation of laws that do not bind the defendant?  


Of course in the law, there are various issues that are considered threshold issues, and of course, jurisdiction is one of those areas.

Of course, also some states (governments) could be superimposing jurisdiction, and surely those kinds of injustices and overbearingnesses do take place.  I agree with your earlier example of Julian Assange.  Assange likely has fairly top notch attorneys but somehow they are seeming to have difficulties limiting the case to jurisdiction and keeping the USA govt sufficiently at bay.

Why is the presumption of innocence even an issue?  Why should proofs be sought?

I agree with you also that jurisdiction seems to be even more foundational in terms of threshold issues than presumption of innocence.

Sometimes attorneys will argue issues that are further up the ladder because if they end up losing on some of the more foundational / threshold issues and they present NO arguments on the other matters, then they would end up losing everything merely based on losing on the threshold issue.  Some lawyers and clients are going to be more willing to stick to ONLY arguing the one issue - but many times, they do end up arguing the other issues, too, while at the same time NOT waiving their right to be totally correct on the foundational/threshold issue that allows the bringing of the case in the first place.


If a tinpot dictator on the other side of the world were to pass, within his jurisdiction, a decree that I, personally, am completely banned from Bitcoin, and if I were to violate his “law”, then should I seek “due process” in his court?  Or should I laugh?

The law can be pretty god damned crazy, sometimes, because it is NOT really uncommon for attorneys to make internally inconsistent arguments, just to make sure that their bases are all covered - but frequently also, they will make their strongest arguments first, and sometimes cut off weaker arguments in order to NOT seem to be grappling at straws ... but I would think that the vast majority of western judges are well able to accept that parties will sometimes make inconsistent arguments... but still tactically, sometimes, it may well be better to just stick to the stronger arguments and to eliminate the weaker and inconsistent arguments or the non-threshold arguments - like you seem to be suggesting.

On these types of issues, the only difference between that hypothetical tinpot dictator and the United States is guns, more guns, bombs, more bombs, tanks, aircraft carriers, ballistic missiles, and nuclear warheads, plus the economic and political muscle to seduce or coerce other countries’ corrupt governments without even bothering to shoot up and incinerate a bunch of civilians.

Of course, those kinds of hard powers do allow some countries to be BIGGER bullies than other countries would be capable of being outside of their territories.

I am more inclined to presume that injustices are taking place on the side of the accused, when I see members posting about the guilt of these various players way before evidence has even been adequately described (and sure in the court of public opinion, we might even be relying upon more flimsy evidence regarding how we might feel about the situation).

^^^ THIS.

I am alarmed and, frankly, a little bit shocked at the general tenor of some of the talk here.

Of course, many of us are going to have differing opinions here, and some member will change their minds and their positions with the passage of time.  Historically, my mind has been changed on topics (sometimes in BIG ways and sometimes merely tweakenings of my ideas and maybe better buttressing or even eliminating some of the rationales that I had previously thought) after participating in thread discussions of various matters.

Just how did this U.S. government action suddenly, within a matter of days, so blacken the name of an exchange that, to my knowledge, has had a sterling reputation?  There are exchanges with credible scam accusations, theft under the rubric of “shotgun KYC”, rampant shitcoin pump-and-dump pushing, and all manner of other sleazy shenanigans.  I have never heard any such thing about BitMEX—still haven’t.  And now, some people are suddenly talking about them as criminals just because a U.S. prosecutor said so!

You and I seem to recognize a lot of these same facts, logic and conclusions, and I would not write off too many of the WO members as if you think that they do not have a brain because several of them will likely come around or at least, consider and reconsider the facts, the logic and their conclusions (opinions) with the passage of time.  

On the other hand, it is possible that you and I (or one of us) might find out that Bitmex's behavior was more egregious than we had earlier considered, and we might adjust our opinions or maybe the strength of our opinion(s) might change with the learning of new facts and logic.


There’s an old saying—I don’t know where I first heard it—that in the United States, a prosecutor can indict a ham sandwich.

Before you brought it up, I was familiar with that expression, too.  I am not sure how old such expression is.

I quickly googled the expression, and I found this in wikipedia:

>>>>New York State chief judge Sol Wachtler was famously quoted by Tom Wolfe in The Bonfire of the Vanities that "a grand jury would 'indict a ham sandwich,' if that's what you wanted."<<<<

Yes, the expression suggests that the prosecutor has a lot of power and ability to persuade juror members into doing what they want in terms of being able to get an indictment.

All I see thus far is news that, at first impression, looks very much like regulatory and prosecutorial overreach from a country that collectively acts as if it were the emperor of the world.

What else is new?  I see that, too.

Note:  I have no connection to BitMEX, and no financial interest in the foregoing statement.  My experience with centralized exchanges is pretty much nil; and I don’t know anybody at BitMEX.

I doubt that there is any need to make this kind of disclaimer because we should assume that you do not have such connections... but if you were to have such connections, there might be a need for you to disclose such information, perhaps?
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October 05, 2020, 06:23:38 AM
Merited by 600watt (1)

... this is a better idea than sea-steading, or better version of it rather. I've wondered why this hasn't been considered in the past as there already exists a community of 'international' citizens that cruise the world continuously, albeit generally retired.
With all the cruise industry liners sitting idle due to CoVid there will be some bargains coming on the market. You could design a moving city by lashing together a fleet of them that slowly rotates around the world on some schedule or another, maybe with the ocean gyre currents and drops anchor outside welcoming nations for commerce and trade occasionally. Then you could lash on an oil tanker to up the range for the fleet, or a container vessel and barge for commercial/industrial activities/ The engineering is already done, the modules are already built, they call them big boats.

^ Got yourself a vacant cruise ship (conveniently already registered in a tax haven)?

MS Satoshi
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Wow, are you serious? That's a bit bigger than a seastead. Is it this actual one that you are refitting to be bitcoin-oriented?


Sounds like an interesting venture, Elwar. Congrats! Any timeshare presentations we can attend to check it out for a few nights free?

Yep, that is a render of the actual ship we purchased (which we are not allowed to name) refitted with our logos.

245 meters long, 777 cabins.

Cabins starting at $25,000. The auction for the rooms starts November 5th.

https://ocean.builders/cruiseship

We'll be accepting bitcoin at all businesses on the ship.
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October 05, 2020, 06:53:33 AM

We'll be accepting bitcoin at all businesses on the ship.

Please do not forget the hookers, it's always been a huge part of business.
The rest we can grow on board.



Oi. Most times trading the cow for magic beans does not work well.....

Can’t... resist...

– Boyfriend doesn't have enough money, so he trades GF for 1 BTC.

Clearly sometimes, it works well.  Reminds me of margin trading.

Can I borrow your girlfriend on margin to short her?

Mmmm, 100x leverage.

Do I retain custody of the magic beans?

Only if I - physically - do the escrow. Grin



... this is a better idea than sea-steading, or better version of it rather.

I might just argue against that. You can't travel in international waters for ever, and a Panama flag doesn't guarantee shit.
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October 05, 2020, 07:36:45 AM

Cruise ship living sounds expensive as shit... but what do I know...




This sideways is slightly better than infamous $6400 one in 2018... but still, not much fun.

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October 05, 2020, 07:59:31 AM

^ Got yourself a vacant cruise ship (conveniently already registered in a tax haven)?

MS Satoshi
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“You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete.”
Congrats Elwar, I am without words.  Cheesy
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October 05, 2020, 09:56:08 AM

WTF Shocked

Liverpool lost 7-2 to Villa.
United lost 6-1 to Spurs.
City lost 5-2 Leicester.

Some strange happenings indeed....

Damn Manè is important for LFC...

Meh just one off day, can happen to all of them
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October 05, 2020, 09:59:51 AM
Merited by bitebits (5), d_eddie (1)

When all goes to shit...
Then one lifeline will remain?
The ark of Elwar!!!
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October 05, 2020, 10:01:47 AM
Merited by Torque (1), Icygreen (1)

“You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete.”

I'm just gonna drop this here:



Not mine of course. And neither is this:

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October 05, 2020, 10:03:19 AM
Merited by AlcoHoDL (1)

When all goes to shit...
Then one lifeline will remain?
The ark of Elwar!!!


like the titanic?
but this time unsinkable.
blockchain bitcoin forever!

Smiley
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October 05, 2020, 10:14:38 AM

WTF Shocked

Liverpool lost 7-2 to Villa.
United lost 6-1 to Spurs.
City lost 5-2 Leicester.

Some strange happenings indeed....

Damn Manè is important for LFC...

Meh just one off day, can happen to all of them

God damn it boys, I’ve been avoiding all sports related media so I don’t get reminded about that horror show last night.

I thought I was safe in the WO but it seems not Grin

A pump would cheer me up right now.
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October 05, 2020, 10:19:59 AM

WTF Shocked

Liverpool lost 7-2 to Villa.
United lost 6-1 to Spurs.
City lost 5-2 Leicester.

Some strange happenings indeed....

Damn Manè is important for LFC...

Meh just one off day, can happen to all of them

God damn it boys, I’ve been avoiding all sports related media so I don’t get reminded about that horror show last night.

I thought I was safe in the WO but it seems not Grin

A pump would cheer me up right now.
This is really disgusting result for Millions investors feeling very bad for them what a result of this weekend for all top ranked teams.
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