Liquid Synergy Designs Inc. -ASIC mining hardware

[xjack]

I need information regarding the potential refund of build expenses before I can make a decision on chip refunds.

Yeah, that IS vital information. Hopefully part two of the update will be posted soon...

Agreed, batch 6 will never ROI, but can't decide without knowing what the options are so we can when evaluate potential mining return + resale.

[wrenchmonkey]

My point of view:

I need miners,any way shape or form,my calcs tell me I need 260GH per Petahash of network speed to achieve 1 BTC per day.

So,I'll keep whatever Steamboat can deliver    

Yes,they are late,due to NO fault of Steamboat.

These miners will still make me BTC in the long run.At 35 watts per unit (4.5GH),its still a great deal.

I have money invested in other miners as well & between all those miners the ROI will be made up on these  

I have great faith in Steamboat,I have talked to him by phone & conversed with him via PM,in the beginning,& will go with whatever decision he makes.

Hang in there Steamboat !!!!!!!!!! Keep moving forward !!!!!!!!!!!!  

My point of view also,  

        I received the e-mail to apply for a refund, I'm here to stay and receive what I bought from Steamboat. ASIC Chips and fully assembled Klondike K16 Boards(Fusion 16 Bitcoin Miners), firmware pre-installation, and stability testing. I'm here to Mine BTC and when I receive my miners I'll post Hashing Rates and BTC Mined!  

I'm glad some other smart people have come to the same conclusions as I have, and have actually bothered to do some actual calculations, instead of jumping to conclusions.

I've been mining since June 2011,when GPU's first were able to mine & folks said "You'll never get ROI,too many mining,blah blah blah".

I invested $1000 in GPU's,mobo's & CPU's & started mining with 2GH,ended up with 4.6GH.Guess what I made almost $4000 with that setup  

So,here we go again!!!!!!!!!  

I'm a little skeptical. Does somebody else pay your power bill?

[Unacceptable]

My point of view:

I need miners,any way shape or form,my calcs tell me I need 260GH per Petahash of network speed to achieve 1 BTC per day.

So,I'll keep whatever Steamboat can deliver    

Yes,they are late,due to NO fault of Steamboat.

These miners will still make me BTC in the long run.At 35 watts per unit (4.5GH),its still a great deal.

I have money invested in other miners as well & between all those miners the ROI will be made up on these  

I have great faith in Steamboat,I have talked to him by phone & conversed with him via PM,in the beginning,& will go with whatever decision he makes.

Hang in there Steamboat !!!!!!!!!! Keep moving forward !!!!!!!!!!!!  

My point of view also,  

        I received the e-mail to apply for a refund, I'm here to stay and receive what I bought from Steamboat. ASIC Chips and fully assembled Klondike K16 Boards(Fusion 16 Bitcoin Miners), firmware pre-installation, and stability testing. I'm here to Mine BTC and when I receive my miners I'll post Hashing Rates and BTC Mined!  

I'm glad some other smart people have come to the same conclusions as I have, and have actually bothered to do some actual calculations, instead of jumping to conclusions.

I've been mining since June 2011,when GPU's first were able to mine & folks said "You'll never get ROI,too many mining,blah blah blah".

I invested $1000 in GPU's,mobo's & CPU's & started mining with 2GH,ended up with 4.6GH.Guess what I made almost $4000 with that setup  

So,here we go again!!!!!!!!!  

I'm a little skeptical. Does somebody else pay your power bill?

My power is .12 cents per/kw............you figure it out.................

[cardcomm]

I'm sure hoping for "part 2" of the update before the weekend. Information on the availability of partial refunds for assembly/shipping is critical for those wishing to make well informed decisions as to refund vs "wait it out". I'm assuming at this point SB will be sticking with is original "no refunds" policy.

Frankly, if I'd gotten the last email update at the same time as everyone else, I'd have immediately requested the refund and taken my losses, no question. Since I was forced to take more time to consider my decision, the assembly and shipping costs have become a sticking point for me. Eating that entire cost has become unpalatable for me. Mostly because I think it's just "not right".

What a fiasco...

[nightengale]

I'm sure hoping for "part 2" of the update before the weekend. Information on the availability of partial refunds for assembly/shipping is critical for those wishing to make well informed decisions as to refund vs "wait it out". I'm assuming at this point SB will be sticking with is original "no refunds" policy.

Frankly, if I'd gotten the last email update at the same time as everyone else, I'd have immediately requested the refund and taken my losses, no question. Since I was forced to take more time to consider my decision, the assembly and shipping costs have become a sticking point for me. Eating that entire cost has become unpalatable for me. Mostly because I think it's just "not right".

What a fiasco...

I went ahead and requested a refund. BitSyncom seems to be more reliable with regard to sending out refunds than chips.

[silicont]

The chip only folks may have found their relief, and the build folks may be the next chorus of "where's our update"?  It has been quiet around here for two days...

[nightengale]

So... How many of the batches have had sufficient refunds requested?

More information was promised in that last email and its still coming at a trickle.

[cardcomm]

So... How many of the batches have had sufficient refunds requested?

More information was promised in that last email and its still coming at a trickle.

Yeah, if we could get more information ASAP, that would be great...

I apparently don't understand the intricacies of answering these common questions in a timely manner.

Actually, I have one simple question that shouldn't be TOO complex:

Steamboat: To your knowledge, is there CURRENTLY in existence a fully functional k16 board hashing at good speed on ALL 16 chips?

I'm thinking answering this one YES or NO question shouldn't be too time consuming.

(Yes, my annoyance IS showing)

[dmcdad]

The problem is engaging in individual Q&A is an endless and time consuming task. Once he starts to answer some questions about the situation folks will reply with "just one more question." There is no way he could answer just your question without at least 5 more questions being asked of him within 15 minutes. Basically, there is no way folks will be satisfied until all the questions are answered, and I'll bet he doesn't yet know all the answers. We'll hear from him once he has a meaningful and substantial update to give us (about chips shipping, assembly refunds, k16 board progress, etc.). One on one Q&A won't be fruitful -- no one will be satisfied and it will just take away from the time SB needs to work on a real solution.

My take (not that anyone asked): SB thus far has been fair and done an good job of handling a terrible situation caused by BitSyncom's cluster of a failure to deliver chips in a timely fashion. We'll just have to be patient to see how everything plays out. It stinks, but I think SB is busy behind the scenes trying to make the best of it.

In other news, Yifu's latest update:

Alright guys, got some good news, here's the two big ones.

1. chips from wednesday arrived just fine, they are being split/packaged for shipment.
2. we are going to open refund for all orders, not just june 1st/15th or what not.

expect more detailed update via newsletter later tonight.

[Stringchains]

The problem is engaging in individual Q&A is an endless and time consuming task. Once he starts to answer some questions about the situation folks will reply with "just one more question." There is no way he could answer just your question without at least 5 more questions being asked of him within 15 minutes. Basically, there is no way folks will be satisfied until all the questions are answered, and I'll bet he doesn't yet know all the answers. We'll hear from him once he has a meaningful and substantial update to give us (about chips shipping, assembly refunds, k16 board progress, etc.). One on one Q&A won't be fruitful -- no one will be satisfied and it will just take away from the time SB needs to work on a real solution.

My take (not that anyone asked): SB thus far has been fair and done an good job of handling a terrible situation caused by BitSyncom's cluster of a failure to deliver chips in a timely fashion. We'll just have to be patient to see how everything plays out. It stinks, but I think SB is busy behind the scenes trying to make the best of it.

In other news, Yifu's latest update:

Alright guys, got some good news, here's the two big ones.

1. chips from wednesday arrived just fine, they are being split/packaged for shipment.
2. we are going to open refund for all orders, not just june 1st/15th or what not.

expect more detailed update via newsletter later tonight.

Agreed. Well said dmcdad.

Afterall, SB is but one person being tugged o' war between hundreds of us. Patience is a virtue.

[cardcomm]

The problem is engaging in individual Q&A is an endless and time consuming task. Once he starts to answer some questions about the situation folks will reply with "just one more question." There is no way he could answer just your question without at least 5 more questions being asked of him within 15 minutes. Basically, there is no way folks will be satisfied until all the questions are answered, and I'll bet he doesn't yet know all the answers. We'll hear from him once he has a meaningful and substantial update to give us (about chips shipping, assembly refunds, k16 board progress, etc.). One on one Q&A won't be fruitful -- no one will be satisfied and it will just take away from the time SB needs to work on a real solution.

My take (not that anyone asked): SB thus far has been fair and done an good job of handling a terrible situation caused by BitSyncom's cluster of a failure to deliver chips in a timely fashion. We'll just have to be patient to see how everything plays out. It stinks, but I think SB is busy behind the scenes trying to make the best of it.

In other news, Yifu's latest update:

Alright guys, got some good news, here's the two big ones.

1. chips from wednesday arrived just fine, they are being split/packaged for shipment.
2. we are going to open refund for all orders, not just june 1st/15th or what not.

expect more detailed update via newsletter later tonight.

Agreed. Well said dmcdad.

Afterall, SB is but one person being tugged o' war between hundreds of us. Patience is a virtue.

Agreed. One on one questions are fruitless, and a waste of his time. That was sort of my point -  if his updates contained more specifics about questions that have already been posed to him multiple times both in public and in private, we would ALL benefit. SB most of all, since he'd have less people complaining and many more satisfied customers.

Lest you bring up the reasonable argument that he can't answer ALL questions, I realize that as well and concede the point. I'd like to point out though that there ARE questions to which there is a definitive yes or no answer. The matter of the existence of a working K16 is pretty simple - there is one, or there isn't one.

The complexity of any negotiations are obviously something he would not be at liberty to share here, nor would I except him to.

Patience may be a virtue, and I have much more of it than I used to. But it wears thin with the seemingly endless waiting for each new "update".

On the up side, thanks for sharing the latest BitSyncom mumblings. It does seem positive.

[ScaryHash]

Good points.

I think another point that needs to be made is that we are really on the forefront here, in terms of the technology that has been developed, and in the process of being deployed.

That's really what you've paid for, to actually BE on the bleeding edge of technology. What people may (or may not) have realized is that by being in on this group buy, it's is not just a simple matter of you pay for a product and it arrives, turnkey, like you would if you order it on Amazon.com. That's not the way it works.

This is what it means to be on the bleeding edge of technology deployment:

1) Things may not go according to plan.

2) There may be delays in the deployment, functioning, and sometimes even basic stupid stuff, like shipping and delivery.

3) It may take longer than you, or for that matter, anybody else, has actually planned, and/or it may cost more (let's hope not).

This is what being at the forefront of technology is all about. The going is usually not easy.

That's usually when the weak hands are shaken out, and the tough get going. I've been trying to solve some of the USB configuration problems, because I want to have the system that drives the miners ready for when they get here.

It has been quite an experience, and I've been learning a lot of stuff about unix and cgminer. I don't have it fully sorted out yet, but it has been fun. There are lot of other people putting in significant amounts of time to get this done. It has been a wonderful experience to observe the community effort and be a small part of it.

[jesse11]

cardcomm:  Read this thread https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=190731.2940

ScaryHash: It's great stuff indeed, hats off to ya   

When the dust settles and I have a K16 Miner I'm going to make a GUI for cgminer to use with the K16's 

[alfabitcoin]

The problem is engaging in individual Q&A is an endless and time consuming task. Once he starts to answer some questions about the situation folks will reply with "just one more question." There is no way he could answer just your question without at least 5 more questions being asked of him within 15 minutes. Basically, there is no way folks will be satisfied until all the questions are answered, and I'll bet he doesn't yet know all the answers. We'll hear from him once he has a meaningful and substantial update to give us (about chips shipping, assembly refunds, k16 board progress, etc.). One on one Q&A won't be fruitful -- no one will be satisfied and it will just take away from the time SB needs to work on a real solution.

My take (not that anyone asked): SB thus far has been fair and done an good job of handling a terrible situation caused by BitSyncom's cluster of a failure to deliver chips in a timely fashion. We'll just have to be patient to see how everything plays out. It stinks, but I think SB is busy behind the scenes trying to make the best of it.

In other news, Yifu's latest update:

Alright guys, got some good news, here's the two big ones.

1. chips from wednesday arrived just fine, they are being split/packaged for shipment.
2. we are going to open refund for all orders, not just june 1st/15th or what not.

expect more detailed update via newsletter later tonight.

Agreed. Well said dmcdad.

Afterall, SB is but one person being tugged o' war between hundreds of us. Patience is a virtue.

Well he stoped to talk as individual a while ago and speak in third person and speak "we" in very offical tone.
I have requested refund for chips and awaiting at least partial for assambly+full for shipping.

[cardcomm]

cardcomm:  Read this thread https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=190731.2940

ScaryHash: It's great stuff indeed, hats off to ya   

When the dust settles and I have a K16 Miner I'm going to make a GUI for cgminer to use with the K16's 

Yeah. As I've previously stated, I've followed that thread since the beginning. It's the ONLY reason I'm in any group buy. I've even contributed funds to that effort since I was unable to contribute technically. I believe in the Klondike 16 effort 100%. I'm certain that it will be ultimately successful.

With that said, I've not seen evidence posted there of a completely working 16 chip board. I see much effort towards it, and I'm sure it will succeed, as I said.

So, jesse11 - was this your way of pointing out to me that there IS NOT yet a fully working example?

BTW, I only brought this up in the first place because as of last notice there will be NO refunds on assembly. That being the case, and since the chips are already late, it would be nice to see a working example, or to have SB directly address the status.

Let me state once again clearly, for the record - I believe 100% in the Klondike 16, and am certain of it's success. But if SB is refusing assembly refunds, he needs to specifically address the state of board development, especially since his last update ignored the issue completely.

[hoss]

In my current drunken state I ran some profitability numbers - assuming chips are free....

<deleted>

~tears of defeat~

[bigbeninlondon]

Yea, at this point only if the chips actually WERE free would we be able to make any money.  This is so fucking awful.

[ScaryHash]

Yea, at this point only if the chips actually WERE free would we be able to make any money.  This is so fucking awful.

Please stop posting wild and misleading claims without showing any calculations. Below is calculated with 4500 mh/s, $.0.10 electricity, and 33% per month increase in difficulty rating for one K16 starting at 100 million difficulty. As anybody can see, the situation is nowhere near as the naysayers predict. Breakeven is at 15 weeks, even using really negative assumptions. Assuming $300 for one K16 and no overclocking potential at all, therefore 32 W for K16. Go to https://bitclockers.com/calc and put in your own numbers if your electricity cost is different. It's not hard to actually do some calculations.

   
                            24 hours           1 month                 1 year                90 days
Est difficulty:    100,000,000    133,000,000        3,063,512,746    232,522,578
BTC earned:    0.02263114    0.67893416        2.62879227            1.56021646
Revenue:               $ 2.89              $ 86.83                    $ 336.20            $ 199.54
Power cost:       $ 0.08              $ 2.30                    $ 28.03              $ 6.91
Net revenue:       $ 2.82             $ 84.52                   $ 308.16           $ 192.62

Bitcoins per day: 0.02263114 BTC

Generate a block every: 3 years 1 weeks 5 days 16 hours 8 mins 37 seconds

Break even in: 15 weeks 1 days 11 hours 27 mins 37 seconds

Break even on: Monday 23rd of December 2013 04:54:09 PM

Net at 90 days: $ -46.43

[alfabitcoin]

Yea, at this point only if the chips actually WERE free would we be able to make any money.  This is so fucking awful.

Please stop posting wild and misleading claims without showing any calculations. Below is calculated with 4500 mh/s, $.0.10 electricity, and 33% per month increase in difficulty rating for one K16 starting at 100 million difficulty. As anybody can see, the situation is nowhere near as the naysayers predict. Breakeven is at 15 weeks, even using really negative assumptions. Assuming $300 for one K16 and no overclocking potential at all.

   
                            24 hours           1 month                 1 year                90 days
Est difficulty:    100,000,000    133,000,000        3,063,512,746    232,522,578
BTC earned:    0.02263114    0.67893416        2.62879227            1.56021646
Revenue:               $ 2.89              $ 86.83                    $ 336.20            $ 199.54
Power cost:       $ 0.08              $ 2.30                    $ 28.03              $ 6.91
Net revenue:       $ 2.82             $ 84.52                   $ 308.16           $ 192.62

Bitcoins per day: 0.02263114 BTC

Generate a block every: 3 years 1 weeks 5 days 16 hours 8 mins 37 seconds

Break even in: 15 weeks 1 days 11 hours 27 mins 37 seconds

Break even on: Monday 23rd of December 2013 04:54:09 PM

Net at 90 days: $ -46.43

You again with your 33% monthly diff increse?? And not to mention of your roi in USD what is wrong!
Knc, labcoin, bitfury, btcgarden all those coming online verry soon, 33% monthly increse when we had at least 70% till now? Give me a break with your justification. You are happy and pleased, good for you. Stop talk what others think or feel!
I have my own opinion and now how to calculate ROI in btc.

[ScaryHash]

 

Do you actually bother to READ anything besides criticizing $ signs??