Liquid Synergy Designs Inc. -ASIC mining hardware

[bcabes]

Just got this email from Avalon below:

Avalon ASIC
Now accepting refunds from any and all order dates
Due to delays we are now offering full refund in bitcoin for all the Avalon Generation One orders made on any date, It is advise for people to request refunds due to the delay and raise of bitcoin difficulty.

The update refund form can be found on the main store site, linked here.
Due to phishing attempts and spam, any refund request not made containing the original order email and phone number will be automatically rejected by the system and marked as spam, so please bear this in mind.

Avalon Generation Two Chips 55nm
Those who have invested in time and money on Avalon Generation One based devices and clones can rejoice in the fact we had the foresight to make Avalon Generation Two chips completely backward compatible in every way with 110nm generation one chips, which can be expect to go on sale Late October 2013 for immediate shipping. Avalon will no longer participate in any kind of pre-ordering.

Developers and Hobbyists should keep an close eye on our github account as we will be releasing the 55nm chip specification and reference design soon!

[ppcko]

Hmm. Something is happening again?
Just got the following email:

From: Avalon Asic <info@avalon-asic.com>

Avalon ASIC
Now accepting refunds from any and all order dates
Due to delays we are now offering full refund in bitcoin for all the Avalon Generation One orders made on any date, It is advise for people to request refunds due to the delay and raise of bitcoin difficulty.
The update refund form can be found on the main store site, linked here.
Due to phishing attempts and spam, any refund request not made containing the original order email and phone number will be automatically rejected by the system and marked as spam, so please bear this in mind.

Avalon Generation Two Chips 55nm
Those who have invested in time and money on Avalon Generation One based devices and clones can rejoice in the fact we had the foresight to make Avalon Generation Two chips completely backward compatible in every way with 110nm generation one chips, which can be expect to go on sale Late October 2013 for immediate shipping. Avalon will no longer participate in any kind of pre-ordering.

Developers and Hobbyists should keep an close eye on our github account as we will be releasing the 55nm chip specification and reference design soon!

Copyright © 2013 BitSyncom LLC, All rights reserved.
You are receiving this email because you have expressed interests in the Avalon ASIC Bitcoin Miner

[bigbeninlondon]

Well if 55nm chips will be backwards compatible, I'll probably go ahead with a refund and hope steamboat supports the 2nd gen chips, and I can get credit from my assembly purchases.

That looks like the best option at this point.

[lemonte]

Good news for assemblers! Fingers crossed SB updates us soon.

[KyrosKrane]

Also it's likely only the first 10,000 chips requested will be refunded (no partial batch refunds).  Possibly the first 20,000 chips, but it doesn't seem like 1/3 want a refund.

At this point, I don't think I can reasonably ROI on my K16s.  However, I haven't asked for a refund yet as I want to hear what Steamboat has to propose regarding the assembly costs. I'm hoping he's trying to swing some sort of deal with Yifu regarding the Gen2 chips so that we can either switch our order to Gen2 instead of Gen1, or salvage the materials and get some sort of cash for the mats/assembly.  Having said that, this whole discussion is predicated on the assumption that the Gen2 chips are better than the Gen1s, by a substantial margin.  I'd be irritated if the only difference is that they produce less heat and use less energy, for example.

[shep80]

I agree a gen1 -> gen2 even swap is the only way of saving this effort from disaster.

[bigbeninlondon]

I'd be irritated if the only difference is that they produce less heat and use less energy, for example.

Less heat and Less energy could be substantial.  Extends overclocking abilities if they produce less heat and makes them profitable for longer if they use less energy.

[professorY]

110nm generation one chips, which can be expect to go on sale Late October 2013 for immediate shipping.

And what will the difficulty be by that point? We're talking basically another 2 months. Even if Yifu allowed a straight trade up for the group buy, wouldn't our ROI still be dead in the water long before the chips could even start hashing?

[KyrosKrane]

I'd be irritated if the only difference is that they produce less heat and use less energy, for example.

Less heat and Less energy could be substantial.  Extends overclocking abilities if they produce less heat and makes them profitable for longer if they use less energy.

I'm of two minds about that. The hacker in me loves the idea of tinkering and seeing how far we can push the hardware. Extra speed, whether from lower heat and overclocking, or from better internals, is always desired. On the other hand, the businessman in me doesn't care how payback is improved, so long as it *is* improved. What I meant by my comment was that, say, a 5% improvement in hash rate, whether from overclocking or from intrinsically better chips, is mostly useless. A 500% improvement would have us dancing with joy. Anything inbetween would have to be evaluated. Same for cost, heat, etc.

[TheJuice]

I'd be irritated if the only difference is that they produce less heat and use less energy, for example.

Less heat and Less energy could be substantial.  Extends overclocking abilities if they produce less heat and makes them profitable for longer if they use less energy.

I'm of two minds about that. The hacker in me loves the idea of tinkering and seeing how far we can push the hardware. Extra speed, whether from lower heat and overclocking, or from better internals, is always desired. On the other hand, the businessman in me doesn't care how payback is improved, so long as it *is* improved. What I meant by my comment was that, say, a 5% improvement in hash rate, whether from overclocking or from intrinsically better chips, is mostly useless. A 500% improvement would have us dancing with joy. Anything inbetween would have to be evaluated. Same for cost, heat, etc.

At 55nm I hope we see ~1GH/chip. If avalon comes through at 1 GH/chip we could potentially see ROI - assuming avalon offers a 1:1 trade.

[makngeerwork]

You have to be an idiot to give Avalon any more money.  I am pulling trigger and requesting a refund for all assembly orders as well.  After the chip refunds, I hope Steamboat goes after Avalon, full on, for compensation.  

[Rakessh]

Uh, what if Steamboat is negotiating replacing all the 110nm chips orders with 55nm chips credits, to be able to purchase them as soon as they're in hand over at BitSynCom?

I've lost it, I've gone completely bonkers...

[ecliptic]

So can we vote for refund for our 110nm chips, and instead of eating the assembly cost, save the assembly for 55nm chips?

Has there been an official announcement from steamboat regarding the 55nm chip plans of Yifu?

Refund for chips w/o refund for PCB assembly is not a wise plan.  PCB assemblies must be used or partially refunded for chip refund to make financial sense.

[cardcomm]

So can we vote for refund for our 110nm chips, and instead of eating the assembly cost, save the assembly for 55nm chips?

Has there been an official announcement from steamboat regarding the 55nm chip plans of Yifu?

Refund for chips w/o refund for PCB assembly is not a wise plan.  PCB assemblies must be used or partially refunded for chip refund to make financial sense.

I'm not sure even THAT would salvage the situation. At least that would be something. I'm betting we probably missed the window for actually GETTING refunds in a timely manner, despite Yifu's comments all batches are eligible for refund.

BTW, ASCIMiner has blades for sale with IMMEDIATE SHIPMENT that hash at 10+GH/s for ~1.5 BTC LESS than I paid for TWO assembled K16 miners.

That says it all, my friends. There is no more need for ROI calculators. We are well and truly screwed. Period.

As for an "official announcement" from Steamboat - it's been what, just under a week? His "weekly update" is due tomorrow, I guess  :/  Unless he's ashamed to show his face in his own thread. I can't say I'd blame him.

[bigbeninlondon]

So can we vote for refund for our 110nm chips, and instead of eating the assembly cost, save the assembly for 55nm chips?

Has there been an official announcement from steamboat regarding the 55nm chip plans of Yifu?

Refund for chips w/o refund for PCB assembly is not a wise plan.  PCB assemblies must be used or partially refunded for chip refund to make financial sense.

I'm not sure even THAT would salvage the situation. At least that would be something. I'm betting we probably missed the window for actually GETTING refunds in a timely manner, despite Yifu's comments all batches are eligible for refund.

BTW, ASCIMiner has blades for sale with IMMEDIATE SHIPMENT that hash at 10+GH/s for ~1.5 BTC LESS than I paid for TWO assembled K16 miners.

That says it all, my friends. There is no more need for ROI calculators. We are well and truly screwed. Period.

As for an "official announcement" from Steamboat - it's been what, just under a week? His "weekly update" is due tomorrow, I guess  :/  Unless he's ashamed to show his face in his own thread. I can't say I'd blame him.

I'd rather a concrete update than wild ass conjecture.  Steamboat is operating a lot more professionally than some other group buys have gone (cough cough ragingazin cough). 

Batch 3 and Batch 5 refund requested.  Let's get this over with. 

[hoss]

I'd be irritated if the only difference is that they produce less heat and use less energy, for example.

Less heat and Less energy could be substantial.  Extends overclocking abilities if they produce less heat and makes them profitable for longer if they use less energy.

I'm of two minds about that. The hacker in me loves the idea of tinkering and seeing how far we can push the hardware. Extra speed, whether from lower heat and overclocking, or from better internals, is always desired. On the other hand, the businessman in me doesn't care how payback is improved, so long as it *is* improved. What I meant by my comment was that, say, a 5% improvement in hash rate, whether from overclocking or from intrinsically better chips, is mostly useless. A 500% improvement would have us dancing with joy. Anything inbetween would have to be evaluated. Same for cost, heat, etc.

At 55nm I hope we see ~1GH/chip. If avalon comes through at 1 GH/chip we could potentially see ROI - assuming avalon offers a 1:1 trade.

We would have to see some GH/watt numbers, BUT the competition has 'about to ship' complete* systems that are 28nm.  They claim 400GH@850watts - also the kicker ~ under $5k USD  

IMO 55nm is dead before it ships.

*complete - as in plug in power, ethernet, configure it via web interface and your done.

[andrewsg]

Looks like Yifu is in the process of screwing his customers...

So sorry, your order is in shipping-processing.

Too effing bad for jOO...

Jeezuz....this is amazingly bad.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=289551.new#new

For reference, that guy got refunded too, so far everyone who has asked for it has gotten a refund.

[ScaryHash]

Looks like Yifu is in the process of screwing his customers...

So sorry, your order is in shipping-processing.

Too effing bad for jOO...

Jeezuz....this is amazingly bad.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=289551.new#new

For reference, that guy got refunded too, so far everyone who has asked for it has gotten a refund.

He just posted a few minutes ago about getting refunded. That is just piss poor customer service. The dude should not have to post on the forums and practically beg for notice to get a refund.

Pathetic customer service on BitSynComm's part. I'm still waiting to hear update 2 from Steamboat, as I'm sure he's trying to straighten things out with Yifu, but I can tell you I'd rather not be dealing with BitSyncomm right now.

We'll see who actually ships first, BFL or BitSyncomm. So far, it looks like there is very little difference. They both overpromise and underdeliver.

[jesse11]

We didn't get Avalon Gen 1 chips so what makes you think we'll get Avalon Gen 2 chips! This is awful, if BitSynComm would have came through for us, we all could be Mining now!

I wonder how much more he will want for Gen 2 chips? Yifu is a Black Hole that sucks up BTC without delivering!

(A black hole is a region of spacetime from which gravity prevents anything, including light, from escaping)

[nightengale]

But the good news is that it gives all of the boards that people have pre-paid for some definitive value.

Have to admit it was wise of Steamboat to wait this out if he had the gen 1 --> gen 2 chip compatibility information in advance. I still want as much of a refund as is possible for chips and boards and assembly and hosting, and BitSyncom's announcement makes that much more achievable.

Hopefully steamboat will follow quickly with the second update and a plan for everyone who wants to either get out, or double down.