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Question: What type of pool payouts do you prefer?
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Author Topic: [40+ PH] SlushPool (slushpool.com); World's First Mining Pool  (Read 3855376 times)
KNK
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February 12, 2014, 04:11:49 PM
 #14861

"12.02.2014
Quick update, website has been migrated to a new location as it turned out to be a DDOS attack. Everything is now operational."
How to explain that the website is not related to hash rate and DDoS-ing it will only make it slow to load in your browser or timeout?

"If it's not in the newspaper it didn't happen" is similar conclusion, because the website is just that - a representation of the job done, not the tool doing the job.
I give up ... it seems you are just trolling and/or not even trying to understand

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February 12, 2014, 04:16:03 PM
 #14862

I guess "CDF" might be important, but I don't know how to read it or what it means.
That's what organofcorti tried to explain, but it's easier to whinecomplain i guess.

Right now CDF is at 69.26 % and there are 3092255627 shares contributed in current round, while the difficulty is 2621404453, so:
we have 3092255627 / 2621404453 = ~1.18 times the difficulty shares. Check on the CDF graph where is 1.18 on the horizontal axis and the CDF value is on the vertical axis. It shows that ~69% of all blocks are found before the number of shares we have so far.
Or otherwise said - once CDF passes over 50% the current round will reduce the daily pool luck.
If you check the same calculations against several rounds you should be more and more closer to 50% CDF (or 100% luck).

Right now the pool dropped to ~766Th/s, so it's 100Th/s or 13% less - with floating hashrate you can't be sure when it was normal to find a block, but the CDF will always be the same, no matter if the pool is 1Th or 1Ph

The website is just a representation/stats of the mining and is in no way related to luck or rewards. Slush pool will keep working and collect your rewards even if the website is shutdown for a week.

This is exactly right.  Based on the CDF you can determine what should happen (at 50% for everything to be equal). .   which means its adjusted for difficulty. . .  Its obviously not "lucky" right now since we have an abnormally large amount of blocks that are way exceeding the CDF 50% level (which is the result of the large/long running rounds). .  The run from this last week has single handidly pulled the entire months luck down about 13% as it was near 101 just last week I believe..

So daily luck is a good number to look at but isn't reflective.  When it runs into weekly, its a bit more disturbing and now its reflected in the month - definitely a bad run right now.
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February 12, 2014, 05:18:29 PM
 #14863

Is there a pool that is doing better? For example, I looked at the BitMinter's stats, https://bitminter.com/blocks , and they look like they've been having lots of long blocks also.

I have never used anything but Slush so I don't know what other pools are even worth considering if someone were to "jump ship". Am I correct in assuming that by joining one of the largest pools, that because of hashrate the larger pools get more rewards more often, but also that the rewards are also divided up into that many more pieces and so one's daily net would not really change except to vary with luck, the same as to just stay at Slush?
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February 12, 2014, 05:38:31 PM
 #14864

Is there a pool that is doing better? For example, I looked at the BitMinter's stats, https://bitminter.com/blocks , and they look like they've been having lots of long blocks also.

I have never used anything but Slush so I don't know what other pools are even worth considering if someone were to "jump ship". Am I correct in assuming that by joining one of the largest pools, that because of hashrate the larger pools get more rewards more often, but also that the rewards are also divided up into that many more pieces and so one's daily net would not really change except to vary with luck, the same as to just stay at Slush?

That's what everyone who 'does the numbers' seems to be intimating. Stick with it, I reckon. Just because we've thrown some bad dice doesn't affect the probability of a six next time round.
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February 12, 2014, 05:54:24 PM
 #14865

"stick with it"....got us close to another bump in difficulty.  yes, other pools thrived and have not hit such lows.  ghash.io, btcguild, d.fish, eligius....all have seen luck stay relatively constant.  not one has experienced this severe "bad luck".  for the past 12 days i may as well have unplugged my hardware it would have earned close to the same.  Damn DDos attackers...you guys deserve a double-junk punch  =)

J_Dubbs
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February 12, 2014, 06:29:59 PM
 #14866

I guess "CDF" might be important, but I don't know how to read it or what it means.
That's what organofcorti tried to explain, but it's easier to whinecomplain i guess.

Right now CDF is at 69.26 % and there are 3092255627 shares contributed in current round, while the difficulty is 2621404453, so:
we have 3092255627 / 2621404453 = ~1.18 times the difficulty shares. Check on the CDF graph where is 1.18 on the horizontal axis and the CDF value is on the vertical axis. It shows that ~69% of all blocks are found before the number of shares we have so far.
Or otherwise said - once CDF passes over 50% the current round will reduce the daily pool luck.
If you check the same calculations against several rounds you should be more and more closer to 50% CDF (or 100% luck).

Right now the pool dropped to ~766Th/s, so it's 100Th/s or 13% less - with floating hashrate you can't be sure when it was normal to find a block, but the CDF will always be the same, no matter if the pool is 1Th or 1Ph

The website is just a representation/stats of the mining and is in no way related to luck or rewards. Slush pool will keep working and collect your rewards even if the website is shutdown for a week.

'backstage problems' with stratum servers may affect the pool, but then the 'Approx. cluster performance' will also drop. When pool's total hashpower goes down, then it's expected that the time to find a block will increase - it is no different from several miners hoping away from the pool.

Right now the pool hashrate dropped, but that's more likely a network connection problem not related in any way to the pool and out of control of the pool operators, so yes there is a problem, but no it's not a pool problem ... or just someone with 100Th hopped from the pool and there is no problem at all


I get enough assignments in grad school where I don't come here for additional formulas to compute. My reason is not to bitch about it; I'm pointing out the flaw where people act as if they know for a fact that "luck" is "pure". If something technical on the website that we don't know about results in longer rounds then "luck" is contaminated by the special cause event. I've had people tell me on this thread to look up the definition of "luck", but my point is the term definition assumes an uncorrupt system of chance. When I use the word corruption this does not mean wrongdoing or theft, it simply means a force other than pure luck is at play. Everytime we have a terrible run there is a technical problem, sometimes it is announced after, and everytime it is resolved we get restored to normal state that is perceived as "good" luck, which is really just nothing more than "normal"- it's perception.

"a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush"
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KNK
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February 12, 2014, 07:13:34 PM
 #14867

When I use the word corruption this does not mean wrongdoing or theft, it simply means a force other than pure luck is at play.
If you found a block, but your ISP experience problems and you can't submit it back to the pool ... is it luck or contamination?

Quote
Everytime we have a terrible run there is a technical problem, sometimes it is announced after, and everytime it is resolved we get restored to normal state that is perceived as "good" luck, which is really just nothing more than "normal"- it's perception.
This is something I can't agree with.
 'Every time' is to strong saying and i am sure you can't prove it or someone else may prove the opposite (or at least show an exception).
A technical problem may affect the pool for a while and it will always be 'announced after' ... or can you see in the future?
There are always technical problems from time to time ... or you have never lost your internet connection ... or you have never got 'network busy' on your mobile?
But there is one thing i am sure of - Slush will fix it as soon as he can and that's the important thing when choosing a pool.
No one can guarantee to you that when you move to another pool it won't experience any technical problems and in fact it's the opposite - big jump in usage (from multiple users - not necessary from big hashrate) will cause technical problems to almost any pool.

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Benjy_Bronk
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February 12, 2014, 07:15:51 PM
 #14868

bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch

Seriously, if you people think that Slush's pool is so bad, why do you stick around?

LEAVE

Find another pool.

But have you ever heard the quote that starts out with "the grass is always greener...."

Me? I started here and I'm staying here.

Can't we all just, get along?

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ioriyagami
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February 12, 2014, 07:23:55 PM
 #14869

woooooooooooooooooooooooooooootttttttttttttttttttt Shocked
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February 12, 2014, 07:26:00 PM
 #14870

bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch

Seriously, if you people think that Slush's pool is so bad, why do you stick around?

LEAVE

Find another pool.

But have you ever heard the quote that starts out with "the grass is always greener...."

Me? I started here and I'm staying here.

Can't we all just, get along?

The grass is always greener where you water it!

I won't ask for donations but I will ask for help. And I won't give donations but I will help if I can.
Benjy_Bronk
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February 12, 2014, 07:30:54 PM
 #14871

bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch

Seriously, if you people think that Slush's pool is so bad, why do you stick around?

LEAVE

Find another pool.

But have you ever heard the quote that starts out with "the grass is always greener...."

Me? I started here and I'm staying here.

Can't we all just, get along?

The grass is always greener where you water it!
And not so green where our dog decides to pee.

Please donate bitcoins to 1Fnru3bQ35VccmGQiDsA5Up2dmmiddUq47
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February 12, 2014, 07:45:20 PM
 #14872

I don't think it can be stressed enough to remind some people here:

The website that you are checking your stats on is a COMPLETELY different system than the actual pool hashing system. I have never lost any hashing when the website goes down. If the hashing servers go down, thats different, but that's not happened since I've been at this pool. There was a stratum server issue/interruption back on JAN 17th that affected a lot of people but not everyone. I never lost any connection but many others did. So yes, there are tech issues, and as mentioned earlier Slush has a great track record of rectifying these issues quickly. But IMO these issues play a very small part of the pool's "luck" as defined by CDF. In fact that day was rolling thru the blocks when that happened.

And I could not agree more with this statement :

"Seriously, if you people think that Slush's pool is so bad, why do you stick around? "



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KNK
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February 12, 2014, 07:56:33 PM
 #14873

Seriously, if you people think that Slush's pool is so bad, why do you stick around?

This is the same for every pool and for Bitcoin as a whole - there are always people who are not happy with this or that, but
I get enough assignments in grad school where I don't come here for additional formulas to compute.
and they don't want to understand 'how it works', but then why are you in bitcoin and what do you expect from it i'll ask ?!

The latest 'technical problem' with bitcoin is also a great example - it 'dropped the trust' and it's price because ... someone wrote so ... and no one wants to 'compute' what it means. In the last week i have explained to more than a dozen of friends that instead of depending on the txid one could simply check the receiving address transactions and the one from it's own address for the same value and at the same time to confirm it - it is just an ease to have it, but you don't need it.

J_DubbsSomeone writes that 'pool problems' are causing 'the bad luck', then because no one wants to 'come here for additional formulas to compute' and accepts that as 'the sacred truth' moves away ...
=
Someone writes that there is a bug in bitcoin 'causing problems' ... are the problems real or imaginary no one wants to understand before 'jumping ship'

My suggestion to those who don't want to 'compute' - get some one who want and can, someone you trust, ask him before you act ... but better still try to understand it yourself

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February 12, 2014, 08:00:41 PM
 #14874

Seriously, if you people think that Slush's pool is so bad, why do you stick around?

This is the same for every pool and for Bitcoin as a whole - there are always people who are not happy with this or that, but
I get enough assignments in grad school where I don't come here for additional formulas to compute.
and they don't want to understand 'how it works', but then why are you in bitcoin and what do you expect from it i'll ask ?!

The latest 'technical problem' with bitcoin is also a great example - it 'dropped the trust' and it's price because ... someone wrote so ... and no one wants to 'compute' what it means. In the last week i have explained to more than a dozen of friends that instead of depending on the txid one could simply check the receiving address transactions and the one from it's own address for the same value and at the same time to confirm it - it is just an ease to have it, but you don't need it.

J_DubbsSomeone writes that 'pool problems' are causing 'the bad luck', then because no one wants to 'come here for additional formulas to compute' and accepts that as 'the sacred truth' moves away ...
=
Someone writes that there is a bug in bitcoin 'causing problems' ... are the problems real or imaginary no one wants to understand before 'jumping ship'

My suggestion to those who don't want to 'compute' - get some one who want and can, someone you trust, ask him before you act ... but better still try to understand it yourself



AMEN!

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February 12, 2014, 08:04:53 PM
 #14875


The problem with folk leaving and joining other pools is that Slush then becomes "the other side" which we know is always greener. oh dilema dilema..
There would be the sound of tiny brain cells exploding all over the world... Which to be fair would be slightly less annoying than the constant moaning.

Just to define
A Hobby is a pastime in which you sink your money and spare time for the enjoyment.
An investment is a risk that the investor has weighed up and is happy to take in order to grow the original money.
Easy money - well that is just left of the leprechaun at the end of the rainbow, sitting in the fountain of youth, sipping the elixir of life from the holy grail...

...................................................

bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch

Seriously, if you people think that Slush's pool is so bad, why do you stick around?

LEAVE

Find another pool.

But have you ever heard the quote that starts out with "the grass is always greener...."

Me? I started here and I'm staying here.

Can't we all just, get along?

The grass is always greener where you water it!
KNK
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February 12, 2014, 08:20:42 PM
 #14876

Just to define
A Hobby is a pastime in which you sink your money and spare time for the enjoyment.
An investment is a risk that the investor has weighed up and is happy to take in order to grow the original money.
Easy money - well that is just left of the leprechaun at the end of the rainbow, sitting in the fountain of youth, sipping the elixir of life from the holy grail...
Agree ... and the thing is that many accept it as 'investment' but have not 'weighted it up' ... many expect easy money and are frustrated that it's not the case.
Pick your own:
 'Hobby' without torturing your brain
 or
 'Investment' for which you must do your homework.

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organofcorti
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February 12, 2014, 09:17:41 PM
 #14877

I get enough assignments in grad school where I don't come here for additional formulas to compute. My reason is not to bitch about it; I'm pointing out the flaw where people act as if they know for a fact that "luck" is "pure". If something technical on the website that we don't know about results in longer rounds then "luck" is contaminated by the special cause event. I've had people tell me on this thread to look up the definition of "luck", but my point is the term definition assumes an uncorrupt system of chance. When I use the word corruption this does not mean wrongdoing or theft, it simply means a force other than pure luck is at play. Everytime we have a terrible run there is a technical problem, sometimes it is announced after, and everytime it is resolved we get restored to normal state that is perceived as "good" luck, which is really just nothing more than "normal"- it's perception.

Your statement is, on the face of it, pretty reasonable, and when I first started mining I often wondered the same thing.

That's why knowing the exact probability distribution to which shares (edit: submitted shares/ expected shares) belong is so important - you can easily find out exactly how probable a certain group of results should be, and it's how I discovered Bitclockers were not paying their miners appropriately and reporting fallacious data.

A few pages back I provided a method to do exactly that, without any need for formulae (yay!). Why don't you check the results yourself? There might actually be a problem, and if you can prove it you'll save a lot of people (including yourself) a lot of heartbreak. If not, you'll be much more comfortable dealing with variance since you can prove to yourself it's within acceptable limits.


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ZephramC
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February 12, 2014, 10:55:06 PM
 #14878


The grass is always greener where you water it!

The problem of greener grass and faster progressing queue is also a statistical one.  Smiley
Imagine you finish your shopping at supermarket and arrive to cash. There are several queues. Let's say N queues. (Alternatively you have N mining pools with various levels of momentary luck.)

One and only 1 of those N possibilities is the best one, the fastest one, the greenest, the luckiest. You choose one variant randomly. Your chance of hitting the best one is 1/N. In all other cases (more probable for N>2) it is always "it is better somewhere else" or "that queue over there is advancing faster". 
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February 13, 2014, 12:17:16 AM
 #14879

I am a newbie here, and to mining (man I wish I would have started a long time ago). That being said, I have done a lot of reading and research on the subject.

So first, I agree that people need to quit whining, especially when they don't understand the math and statistics involved. But second, if there ARE technical issues, it would be beneficial to be transparent about it. If there are NOT technical issues, then, when things appear to not be going well, an occasional post to confirm that everything is working fine on the back-end and the pool is indeed experiencing bad "luck" would at least show that the owner of the pool is taking care of things.

As for me, I understand what I got into, and Slush has had a good reputation for quite some time.

But in the end, there will always be whiners...

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February 13, 2014, 03:25:21 AM
 #14880

Some irrelevent crap here lately, Slush is small now, hence the stats. Easy as that. Telling people to bugger off and being a dick doesn't help anyone, it makes it worse.

Variance has evened out the bad times in the past, but that's not happening so much recently maybe because it's a smaller pool after the bad times with less chance of making up the average. IF it stayed the same size then it would probably even out but if it reduces to any noticable extent that can't happen logically because Slush won't have the same hashpower to do it.

Larger pools have more stable average results, there is no grass, only logic.
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