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Author Topic: [40+ PH] SlushPool (slushpool.com); World's First Mining Pool  (Read 3852687 times)
digital
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April 30, 2013, 03:06:22 PM
 #7261

I have been using stratum, without any stratum related crashes, since it was introduced.  And I was a beta tester.

But I also have only used Slush.  If I'm not mistaken, Slush created stratum, so I would imagine he has a better handle on how to use it than some other pools may have.

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References (bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=): 50051.20  50051.100  53668.0  53788.0  53571.0  53571.0  52212.0  50729.0  114804.0  115468  78106  69061  58572  54747
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Lucko
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April 30, 2013, 03:21:28 PM
 #7262

Ok, I am surprised that the scoring system works that way....

It means even if I am an ASIC miner if I have an outage of 90minutes due to a storm then I lose all my shares value. Everyone else profited from my shares. So down time is my enemy.

How does the score system work? (I am sorry for my ignorance!)
There are some resets of the scores also so after a reset you don't get any... 90 minutes is more then enough for reset to accrue... Probably more then once. So even 1000 ASIC wouldn't help... That way I was asking for pool to have a maintenance mode and that way I'm using backup PPS pool in time of maintenance... And also why backup pool is PPS. So I get something out... If the backup pool would use Slush method for short outage I would get close to 0. But then again I could be lucky... For some time I used PPLNS method but I got out about 10% of what I lost so PPS is probably much better... But then again I might be wrong...

Not how the "reset" works. It's more of a "renormalisation".
OK then why my scores goes to 0? If it was renormalisation it would be some small number... And since I have a lot of problems with my miner right now I see score 0 toooooo many times right now...
digital
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April 30, 2013, 03:23:37 PM
 #7263

Ok, I am surprised that the scoring system works that way....

It means even if I am an ASIC miner if I have an outage of 90minutes due to a storm then I lose all my shares value. Everyone else profited from my shares. So down time is my enemy.

How does the score system work? (I am sorry for my ignorance!)
There are some resets of the scores also so after a reset you don't get any... 90 minutes is more then enough for reset to accrue... Probably more then once. So even 1000 ASIC wouldn't help... That way I was asking for pool to have a maintenance mode and that way I'm using backup PPS pool in time of maintenance... And also why backup pool is PPS. So I get something out... If the backup pool would use Slush method for short outage I would get close to 0. But then again I could be lucky... For some time I used PPLNS method but I got out about 10% of what I lost so PPS is probably much better... But then again I might be wrong...

Not how the "reset" works. It's more of a "renormalisation".
OK then way my scores goes to 0? If it was renormalisation it would be some small number... And since I have a lot of problems with my miner right now I see score 0 toooooo many times right now...

If you are having problems with your miner, you should probably get those resolved first before complaining about what slush is doing.  Seriously, when my miners are stable, which is almost all the time, my payouts are constant and regular.  I've never had to worry about the score normalizing.

If I help you out: 17QatvSdciyv2zsdAbphDEUzST1S6x46c3
References (bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=): 50051.20  50051.100  53668.0  53788.0  53571.0  53571.0  52212.0  50729.0  114804.0  115468  78106  69061  58572  54747
genpayne
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April 30, 2013, 03:26:00 PM
 #7264


I know why the functions are there, but its effects do seem a little harsh. Maybe it could be reduced a little? Otherwise those with massive rigs could switch do the opposite of the normal problem, run them on a PPS pool, then they notice its been 45 minutes here switch.

sadly your argument is the opposite of what it's meant to be, you just described the very actions that the score system are trying to deter. And if people were doing that he would have to make the functions even harsher.

The function is there to stop people from hopping after mining at the start. I am suggesting the opposite.
For example, the 6:43 block this morning. If you noticed that at 6 hours you can be reasonably confident that its not going to be too much longer. It could be, but statistically it is unlikely.
So you were mining on either a PPS or even another pool that’s just started a block. Statistically you would expect our block to finish before the average block length on your current pool. You hop over to us and on average are better off.

Now, to do this manually would be tricky since you would have to monitor multiple pools etc. But to script it would hardly be tricky.

Without looking at the maths its impossible to work out whether the gains would be worth the effort
I mentioned before, I am in the middle of exams at the moment and have little time to work on this.
Or to look properly at the algorithms in place (although I did do last week so am working from those memories).

Next week I will take a proper look. I might be completely wrong! But from the limited information I have it was something I considered feasible. Nobody (As far as I can see) has provided a quick explanation as to why not. organofcorti presented some links to documents which may well do this, but I currently have not got the time to read them properly. Hence I can't comment on them.
If there is a quick explanation please give it? If not I will take a proper look next week. If I still feel this is possible I will probably attempt to prove it by having two identical clusters of machines, one just mining slush and the other attempting what I have suggested.

Then I can report back with some actual figures to back this up, or admit to myself It doesn’t work out on paper as it does in my head.
If anyone does have the time now feel free to take a look!

That is the way it is though if your on a 4h block you can get 99% payout just being on the last hour.  There has to be some way of determining how long you were connected and calculate off that?Huh

You can get an even payout using pay per share! But the overall average payout is less because there is risk for the operator.

*Anyone having stratum problems with a client, just use getwork and the proxy (set your mining address to localhost or 127.0.0.1*

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April 30, 2013, 03:29:43 PM
 #7265

If you are having problems with your miner, you should probably get those resolved first before complaining about what slush is doing.  Seriously, when my miners are stable, which is almost all the time, my payouts are constant and regular.  I've never had to worry about the score normalizing.

I'm not one that is complaining... Read posts... I just told my experiences... And I'm resolving it right now. Idiot employee drooped it because he felled the need to move it...
digital
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April 30, 2013, 03:32:56 PM
 #7266

a whole bunch of stuff...

I think the point is...

You may be able to make a little more by mining @ a pps pool during the beginning of slush's rounds, then coming on at the back end of a round on slush to get your reward for that block.

BUT, you won't be taking extra profits from everyone else @ slush.  You will still be getting your fair share.  As opposed to mining only right at the beginning of rounds, when you find a very short round, you actually make more than you normally would, and take a percentage of the share from the other miners on slush.

I could be way off base here, but that's how I interpreted it...

If I help you out: 17QatvSdciyv2zsdAbphDEUzST1S6x46c3
References (bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=): 50051.20  50051.100  53668.0  53788.0  53571.0  53571.0  52212.0  50729.0  114804.0  115468  78106  69061  58572  54747
digital
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April 30, 2013, 03:34:14 PM
 #7267

Idiot employee drooped it because he felled the need to move it...

Well, you know what they say.

If you want a job done right, you gotta do it yourself!!! lol

If I help you out: 17QatvSdciyv2zsdAbphDEUzST1S6x46c3
References (bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=): 50051.20  50051.100  53668.0  53788.0  53571.0  53571.0  52212.0  50729.0  114804.0  115468  78106  69061  58572  54747
Meska
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April 30, 2013, 03:37:14 PM
 #7268

Here is the response (in French) about the hack of OVH : http://pastebin.com/c08STp9E

Quick Translate (I'm French and a big customer of OVH) :
Quote
Hi, to change your OVH password, you need to go to the backoffice. An email is sent to the email adresse with an unique URL.
This URL is formed by 21 chars using 3 differents RAND algorythm, which every algorythim create 7 chars (7x3 = 21). After this, the client receive an email with this unique URL

[snip]

This is a procedure used since 7 years who didn't change.

[snip]

The 26th april, we (OVH) saw this problem. 2 of the 3 functions who generate the RAND number where "not really rand" (quick translate). So this "unique" URL can be bruteforced (only 1/3 of the string was RAND).
This problem has been discovered the 26th of April, at 11:03:14 (Maybe French hours, GMT +1?) and has been fixed at 12:54:13.
A patch have been developped to use a corrected RAND functions.
Some change has been made to use 2 reals new RAND functions/algo.

[snip]

After, we made a big search in our database to find if other clients have been compromised, during the last 3 years. (OVH is allowed to keep 10 years of logs, according to CNIL Agreement (Wikipedia CNIL : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CNIL )). Now we (OVH) are going back to 10 years to be sure...

[snip]

(personal note) : More about the hack & Bitcoin cumminity

We found 3 ID who has been hacked, in this 3 cases, the "bitcoin" cummunity was targeted who was using OVH services. The hacker found the exploit the 23th of April, at 22h, testing during an hour. At 23h, the exploit method was working and the first OVH ID has been hacked. The day after, 2 others Bitcoin OVH ID has been hack.

We have been in contact with this clients, but the quality of the exchanges didn't help us to find the problem/security hole. One of our internal dev finally found the hole and fixed it. We certainly must find some lessons to learn in the way to speak with our customers in this kind of problems.

[snip] (Line 72 on pastebin)

It took a long time to communicate about this, because we seen it was a really "small" effect (not sure about my translation in this) but "only 3 clients", and we wanted to check completly if there was only 3 clients affected or more, before speaking about this issue...

[snip] Since Line 86, more "commercial" speaking, I'll not translate it.

Please note, I'm not working at OVH, I'm just a bitcoin user, and an OVH customer working on dedicated servers.

Edit: my translation can be "really bad", I tried to do my best as quickly as I can to share the information, this email was from the OVH Mailing List called "hosting".

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Slave2school
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April 30, 2013, 03:51:02 PM
 #7269

That was a perfectly good translation, thanks!  Better than I'm sure google would give.  Nice to have a few inside details, but I'm still glad slush has moved on. Hopefully it reduces his workload a bit on the new servers.

1Mr8ivRoEdUnXBSqSs8Ru5bCyk2CzUc418
genpayne
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April 30, 2013, 03:55:07 PM
 #7270

I think the point is...

You may be able to make a little more by mining @ a pps pool during the beginning of slush's rounds, then coming on at the back end of a round on slush to get your reward for that block.

BUT, you won't be taking extra profits from everyone else @ slush.  You will still be getting your fair share.  As opposed to mining only right at the beginning of rounds, when you find a very short round, you actually make more than you normally would, and take a percentage of the share from the other miners on slush.

I could be way off base here, but that's how I interpreted it...

So you are saying a miner working for an hour before a block is found is not actually doing anything towards finding the block?
You are contributing little work but getting a big share from the block. The block has the same value no matter how many miners are involved, so those who have been mining continually with slush have to lose out!

Available for small programming jobs. PM me a Spec and I'll give you a price!
If I have made your day - 1HectorMHoC8ZxGe6wm5pLh2Szs2gbeFvr
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April 30, 2013, 03:59:30 PM
 #7271

Idiot employee drooped it because he felled the need to move it...

Well, you know what they say.

If you want a job done right, you gotta do it yourself!!! lol

I dunno, sometimes an employee can drop things a whole lot better than I can  Smiley
genpayne
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April 30, 2013, 04:01:42 PM
 #7272

I dunno, sometimes an employee can drop things a whole lot better than I can  Smiley

If you're looking for an idiot employee send me an application form! Wink

Available for small programming jobs. PM me a Spec and I'll give you a price!
If I have made your day - 1HectorMHoC8ZxGe6wm5pLh2Szs2gbeFvr
wtfvanity
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April 30, 2013, 04:03:01 PM
 #7273

Slush, I sent you a message. I know you're busy, but need help with my account. Sent days ago.

          WTF!     Don't Click Here              
          .      .            .            .        .            .            .          .        .     .               .            .             .            .            .           .            .     .               .         .              .           .            .            .            .     .      .     .    .     .          .            .          .            .            .           .              .     .            .            .           .            .               .         .            .     .            .            .             .            .              .            .            .      .            .            .            .            .            .            .             .          .
digital
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April 30, 2013, 04:04:43 PM
 #7274

I think the point is...

You may be able to make a little more by mining @ a pps pool during the beginning of slush's rounds, then coming on at the back end of a round on slush to get your reward for that block.

BUT, you won't be taking extra profits from everyone else @ slush.  You will still be getting your fair share.  As opposed to mining only right at the beginning of rounds, when you find a very short round, you actually make more than you normally would, and take a percentage of the share from the other miners on slush.

I could be way off base here, but that's how I interpreted it...

So you are saying a miner working for an hour before a block is found is not actually doing anything towards finding the block?
You are contributing little work but getting a big share from the block. The block has the same value no matter how many miners are involved, so those who have been mining continually with slush have to lose out!

That's one way of looking at it.  the other way is...  No one knows how long it's gonna be before we find a block.  So I'm going to set my miners and forget them for the best average payout on all blocks.


Because you can say that miners aren't contributing for the first hour of a block, or you could say they are helping to find the block in less than a hour.  It's all relative, math, averages, etc.  Play the averages, it's your best bet.

If I help you out: 17QatvSdciyv2zsdAbphDEUzST1S6x46c3
References (bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=): 50051.20  50051.100  53668.0  53788.0  53571.0  53571.0  52212.0  50729.0  114804.0  115468  78106  69061  58572  54747
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April 30, 2013, 04:09:02 PM
 #7275

Idiot employee drooped it because he felled the need to move it...

Well, you know what they say.

If you want a job done right, you gotta do it yourself!!! lol
He wasn't told to move it... He just moved it...
genpayne
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April 30, 2013, 04:22:03 PM
 #7276

Because you can say that miners aren't contributing for the first hour of a block, or you could say they are helping to find the block in less than a hour.  It's all relative, math, averages, etc.  Play the averages, it's your best bet.

If going off averages was safe then the time based reduction in value of shares isn't needed! Its there because people can take advantage of the system.

Available for small programming jobs. PM me a Spec and I'll give you a price!
If I have made your day - 1HectorMHoC8ZxGe6wm5pLh2Szs2gbeFvr
ewitte
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April 30, 2013, 04:39:06 PM
 #7277



That's one way of looking at it.  the other way is...  No one knows how long it's gonna be before we find a block.  So I'm going to set my miners and forget them for the best average payout on all blocks.


Because you can say that miners aren't contributing for the first hour of a block, or you could say they are helping to find the block in less than a hour.  It's all relative, math, averages, etc.  Play the averages, it's your best bet.

For the larger ones its pretty easy to tell if there are hours left on a block with 98% certainty at least.

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April 30, 2013, 04:55:59 PM
 #7278

Anyone using 7870 with Win7 x64? I can't get more then 350 out of it but if should be 465 (1250 core). I did ask in hardware forum but got noting useful jet... And only one who is using Linux is answering and this doesn't help since his combination crashes my cgminer... I can't remember Driver SDK combination...
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April 30, 2013, 04:59:07 PM
 #7279

Anyone using 7870 with Win7 x64? I can't get more then 350 out of it but if should be 465 (1250 core). I did ask in hardware forum but got noting useful jet... And only one who is using Linux is answering and this doesn't help since his combination crashes my cgminer... I can't remember Driver SDK combination...

What flags are you using?

Also, what is the make of the 7870, i find a fairly large variance in different brands of the same card.  Ex. XFX 5770 will get 205mhs while th Powercolor will only get 185mhs with the same settings.

If I help you out: 17QatvSdciyv2zsdAbphDEUzST1S6x46c3
References (bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=): 50051.20  50051.100  53668.0  53788.0  53571.0  53571.0  52212.0  50729.0  114804.0  115468  78106  69061  58572  54747
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April 30, 2013, 05:03:02 PM
 #7280

Anyone using 7870 with Win7 x64? I can't get more then 350 out of it but if should be 465 (1250 core). I did ask in hardware forum but got noting useful jet... And only one who is using Linux is answering and this doesn't help since his combination crashes my cgminer... I can't remember Driver SDK combination...

What flags are you using?

Also, what is the make of the 7870, i find a fairly large variance in different brands of the same card.  Ex. XFX 5770 will get 205mhs while th Powercolor will only get 185mhs with the same settings.

GHz... And it was doing 465 so I know it can... Well but if you read higher you know it had meting with the idiot... So it could be do to this...

EDIT: cgminer not guiminer so no flags only -I 9
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