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Author Topic: [40+ PH] SlushPool (slushpool.com); World's First Mining Pool  (Read 3859027 times)
adam3us
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May 05, 2013, 02:18:48 PM
 #7621

In this way reward can not be reassigned, without redoing the work, and other than the pre-mining attack, you could basically operate with zero-trust (give out the ssh root private key to the serer without loss of security.)

The proof of contribution merkle tree could even be published to the full network, and included as part of the reward verification, then the pool wouldnt need to be trusted at all in terms of provable no skimming.  Of course the pool is still trusted with validation (by those pool miners who dont build their own blocks nor independently validate the pool constructed blocks).

Actually I think something a bit more is needed or a dishonest pool could still skim by handing out different merkle trees to different miners.  (Miner A would see his past contributions in the merkle tree path he receives, Miner B similarly, but A's contributions could be missing from B's tree path and vice-versa.  The dishonest pool could then plausibly deny the tree path as a fabrication.  Probably an ECDSA signature from the pool could fix that (from the reward private key, or separate "fairness" key pair).  Miners can audit the blocks, and in the unlikely event of a pool skimming can prove it, which could create reputation problems for the pool.  Or as before more directly publish the proof of skimming to be validated by the network with some outcome - eg block declared invalid, or pool fees reassigned to first skim prover (a kind of multisig).  I think a signature is not quite as desirable as the verification is higher than for hashes, but I dont so far see a network efficient way to avoid it.  Anyway the signature does not have to be published nor verified unless the pool cheats so that is probably acceptable.  If the punishment for cheating is that the block gets invalidated, there is no reward possible from any form of hacking of the pool server including obtaining its fairness private key.

It would be possible to have a fair exchange protocol as part of the mining share submission (as the signed proof of past work is delayed until after the work is submitted, a dishonest pool could accept a mining share work proof, and then not respond, claiming network error).  However fair exchange is a tricky somewhat computationally inefficient area of cryptography involving an arbitrator in event of dispute, and fair exchange doesnt seem that necessary - the pool doesnt want to lose miners, is probably deterrence enough.

Adam

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May 05, 2013, 03:34:06 PM
 #7622

I just noticed one of the workers happily submitting shares while the account page says I submitted nothing for over an hour. I reconnected and normal operation resumed.

Same here...

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May 05, 2013, 04:31:27 PM
 #7623

I just noticed one of the workers happily submitting shares while the account page says I submitted nothing for over an hour. I reconnected and normal operation resumed.

Same here...


Mine did the same, only it said three and a half hours. Thing is there were a couple of short blocks during that time period where I did have shares. So I was mining, it just wasn't showing up on the account page for some reason.

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May 05, 2013, 04:32:14 PM
 #7624

I just noticed one of the workers happily submitting shares while the account page says I submitted nothing for over an hour. I reconnected and normal operation resumed.

Same here...


Me too.
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May 05, 2013, 06:34:51 PM
 #7625

hmmm... I was just looking at my results for the last 12 hours and decided to come and see if people were yelling about problems. And, as i suspected, they are. Yesterday, i was looking at blocks and the maps where they were found. I noticed a number of them were found in a certain section of germany. It kind of implied that the same person was finding a disproportionate number of blocks. I asked my self how this could be and decided that it is either a large mining complex, or an ASIC miner. I'm leaning towards ASIC at the moment. I'm not pointing fingers or making accusations, just observing and taking a WAG at it.

As ASIC are bursting on to the scene, we are going to see that we nonASIC users are getting smaller shares. or no shares of some blocks. This will continue until the difficulty adjusts for the speed of the ASICs. Once the difficulty is adjusted it will be obvious why we are getting little. But, in the mean time i suspect what we see will appear to resemble anomalies.

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May 05, 2013, 06:44:22 PM
 #7626

But blocks listed as relayed by a server in Germany means that's where the pool server or single miner is located, not where the miner pool member who found the block is located? Or am I wrong?

EDIT: I mean, if the miner in Germany is not a pool member it wouldn't affect our rewards.
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May 05, 2013, 06:50:30 PM
 #7627

But blocks listed as relayed by a server in Germany means that's where the pool server or single miner is located, not where the miner pool member who found the block is located? Or am I wrong?

EDIT: I mean, if the miner in Germany is not a pool member it wouldn't affect our rewards.


now i'm confused. When you look at the Statistics page and click on the block number, don't you see where the member of the pool is located?

ie: http://blockchain.info/block/000000000000009b2d787db18f0b7967e4944d0b6796835c1e6e2f51b3e99e76?site=slush

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May 05, 2013, 07:27:54 PM
 #7628

That would mean be the pool reports the IP of the miner to the network and I cannot think of any reason for that. Besides, there's no exact way to tell the location of an IP.
But I may be wrong. Somebody, please enlighten us.
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May 05, 2013, 07:37:03 PM
 #7629

hmmm... I was just looking at my results for the last 12 hours and decided to come and see if people were yelling about problems. And, as i suspected, they are. Yesterday, i was looking at blocks and the maps where they were found. I noticed a number of them were found in a certain section of germany. It kind of implied that the same person was finding a disproportionate number of blocks. I asked my self how this could be and decided that it is either a large mining complex, or an ASIC miner. I'm leaning towards ASIC at the moment. I'm not pointing fingers or making accusations, just observing and taking a WAG at it.

As ASIC are bursting on to the scene, we are going to see that we nonASIC users are getting smaller shares. or no shares of some blocks. This will continue until the difficulty adjusts for the speed of the ASICs. Once the difficulty is adjusted it will be obvious why we are getting little. But, in the mean time i suspect what we see will appear to resemble anomalies.

Nope... Next estimated difficulty is about the same (+1%). So no big hash increase... So forget ASIC... And even if it would be that wouldn't relay to only some blocks be effected... All or none... And till difficulty doesn't change it wouldn't be a factor...

Second. Even if a difficulty increases block reword stays the same if pool hashrate is constant. You only get less blocks. Now pool hashrete did change but for less then 10%. And again all blocks are effected. But one you get 0.005someting for one block and 0.003somting with missing shares that means we have a problem... And cgminer didn't record any connection problems.

So I guess is a problem with stratum.

EDIT: I might misunderstood you. Did you explain blocks rewords anomalys with ASIC or not. If not forget it... And yes this is P2P pool and one of hi speed members or solo operation...
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May 05, 2013, 09:10:49 PM
 #7630

I've been mining on Slush for a couple of days and I like what I'm seeing.

Despite reading about the scorebase system thoroughly, I still have some questions.

Even though I mine 24/7, I'm mining on my gaming rig. Therefore I have to adjust the aggression level all the time to get the most out of my GPUs and the only way to do that is to make a quick disconnect, change the agg lvl and reconnect immediately.

It takes about 3 seconds. From what I read, uptime is important in Slush's pool. What I'm wondering is, does this rapid dc/rc affect my score? Or should I just keep my aggression level midrange so I can keep my uptime as long as possible but at the same time, losing some hashrates.

I'm currently choosing between Slush and 50BTC. I'm leaning towards Slush but I'm not sure if PPS is a better way for me.

Mining at 300MH/s

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May 05, 2013, 09:30:37 PM
 #7631

I've been mining on Slush for a couple of days and I like what I'm seeing.

Despite reading about the scorebase system thoroughly, I still have some questions.

Even though I mine 24/7, I'm mining on my gaming rig. Therefore I have to adjust the aggression level all the time to get the most out of my GPUs and the only way to do that is to make a quick disconnect, change the agg lvl and reconnect immediately.

It takes about 3 seconds. From what I read, uptime is important in Slush's pool. What I'm wondering is, does this rapid dc/rc affect my score? Or should I just keep my aggression level midrange so I can keep my uptime as long as possible but at the same time, losing some hashrates.

I'm currently choosing between Slush and 50BTC. I'm leaning towards Slush but I'm not sure if PPS is a better way for me.

Mining at 300MH/s
3 seconds doesn't make much of a difference even with Slush. And it is number game. Sometime you will loss "a lot" but most of a time you will get a little bit more. And compeering PPS and Slush method is hard since you get a constant payment with PPS and big differences depending on luck with Slush. Best way to go around is to look at luck at the end of a day and then on a graph with the daily reword(be sure to use server time). Then use this calculation day reword/day luck*100. You should get a number that is close to 100% luck so you can look at 50BTC and Slush pool.
Trongersoll
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May 05, 2013, 09:32:11 PM
 #7632

I've been mining on Slush for a couple of days and I like what I'm seeing.

Despite reading about the scorebase system thoroughly, I still have some questions.

Even though I mine 24/7, I'm mining on my gaming rig. Therefore I have to adjust the aggression level all the time to get the most out of my GPUs and the only way to do that is to make a quick disconnect, change the agg lvl and reconnect immediately.

It takes about 3 seconds. From what I read, uptime is important in Slush's pool. What I'm wondering is, does this rapid dc/rc affect my score? Or should I just keep my aggression level midrange so I can keep my uptime as long as possible but at the same time, losing some hashrates.

I'm currently choosing between Slush and 50BTC. I'm leaning towards Slush but I'm not sure if PPS is a better way for me.

Mining at 300MH/s

I don't think that your short disconnect will affect your results. I'm pretty sure how often results are sent back is what is being tracked, not the actual time your miner is running. But, i could be wrong. I'm no expert.

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Xanthon
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May 05, 2013, 09:34:16 PM
 #7633

I've been mining on Slush for a couple of days and I like what I'm seeing.

Despite reading about the scorebase system thoroughly, I still have some questions.

Even though I mine 24/7, I'm mining on my gaming rig. Therefore I have to adjust the aggression level all the time to get the most out of my GPUs and the only way to do that is to make a quick disconnect, change the agg lvl and reconnect immediately.

It takes about 3 seconds. From what I read, uptime is important in Slush's pool. What I'm wondering is, does this rapid dc/rc affect my score? Or should I just keep my aggression level midrange so I can keep my uptime as long as possible but at the same time, losing some hashrates.

I'm currently choosing between Slush and 50BTC. I'm leaning towards Slush but I'm not sure if PPS is a better way for me.

Mining at 300MH/s
3 seconds doesn't make much of a difference even with Slush. And it is number game. Sometime you will loss "a lot" but most of a time you will get a little bit more. And compeering PPS and Slush method is hard since you get a constant payment with PPS and big differences depending on luck with Slush. Best way to go around is to look at luck at the end of a day and then on a graph with the daily reword(be sure to use server time). Then use this calculation day reword/day luck*100. You should get a number that is close to 100% luck so you can look at 50BTC and Slush pool.

Thanks. This is what I need to know. If disconnecting for a couple of seconds makes a difference because I restarted my uptime, I would have to go to 50BTC. But if it doesn't make that much of a difference, I'm definitely staying with Slush.

Cheers mate, been trying to get this info for a day, tried on IRC and the newbie forums but I had to get out of the newbie zone before I can get an actual answer.

I've been mining on Slush for a couple of days and I like what I'm seeing.

Despite reading about the scorebase system thoroughly, I still have some questions.

Even though I mine 24/7, I'm mining on my gaming rig. Therefore I have to adjust the aggression level all the time to get the most out of my GPUs and the only way to do that is to make a quick disconnect, change the agg lvl and reconnect immediately.

It takes about 3 seconds. From what I read, uptime is important in Slush's pool. What I'm wondering is, does this rapid dc/rc affect my score? Or should I just keep my aggression level midrange so I can keep my uptime as long as possible but at the same time, losing some hashrates.

I'm currently choosing between Slush and 50BTC. I'm leaning towards Slush but I'm not sure if PPS is a better way for me.

Mining at 300MH/s

I don't think that your short disconnect will affect your results. I'm pretty sure how often results are sent back is what is being tracked, not the actual time your miner is running. But, i could be wrong. I'm no expert.

Yea, this is the part where I was confused. From my understanding, score are based on the time it's submitted during a round. Disconnecting shouldn't affect much since I'll miss maybe a share or two and when I'm back, I'm suppose to get the same score per share.

But from Slush's explanation here
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1976.msg50002#msg50002

He made it sound like disconnection even for awhile is bad.

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May 05, 2013, 09:40:29 PM
 #7634

Thanks. This is what I need to know. If disconnecting for a couple of seconds makes a difference because I restarted my uptime, I would have to go to 50BTC. But if it doesn't make that much of a difference, I'm definitely staying with Slush.

Cheers mate, been trying to get this info for a day, tried on IRC and the newbie forums but I had to get out of the newbie zone before I can get an actual answer.
Was the answer clear enough? I putted "a lot" in quotes since a lot is relative... You will get much bigger variance because of you playing games and time of shares being submitted...
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May 05, 2013, 09:43:24 PM
 #7635

Thanks. This is what I need to know. If disconnecting for a couple of seconds makes a difference because I restarted my uptime, I would have to go to 50BTC. But if it doesn't make that much of a difference, I'm definitely staying with Slush.

Cheers mate, been trying to get this info for a day, tried on IRC and the newbie forums but I had to get out of the newbie zone before I can get an actual answer.
Was the answer clear enough? I putted "a lot" in quotes since a lot is relative... You will get much bigger variance because of you playing games and time of shares being submitted...

I think so.

So basically the length of your uptime is not taken into consideration. It's the time of your share submission in that round counts.

Right?

I fully understood that I'm responsible for the variance caused by my disconnection. I was just wondering if the uptime length affects the score per share since I can keep my agg level at a mid range without having to disconnect.

Right now, I'm changing it to max aggression everytime I'm not using it.

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ewitte
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May 05, 2013, 09:46:30 PM
 #7636

For a several hour long block it isn't going to make much difference if done near the beginning.  I try to do maintenance at the beginning of long blocks.  As long as there is ~30min or so left it usually catches right back up to almost normal.

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May 05, 2013, 09:48:56 PM
 #7637

Thanks for all the replies, I really appreciated them.

They are pretty useful and sets my mind at ease.

May the luck be with us.

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May 05, 2013, 10:24:29 PM
 #7638

Thanks for all the replies, I really appreciated them.

They are pretty useful and sets my mind at ease.

May the luck be with us.

Yesterdays luck please that was an awesome day Smiley

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May 06, 2013, 12:12:14 AM
 #7639

kinda makes up for that 11 hour block the other day
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May 06, 2013, 12:21:00 AM
 #7640

the 11 hour really sucked.

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