Bitcoin Forum
October 24, 2019, 12:47:24 AM *
News: Help collect the most notable posts made over the last 10 years.
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  
Pages: « 1 ... 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 [204] 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 ... 306 »
  Print  
Author Topic: Merit & new rank requirements  (Read 139854 times)
btcsmlcmnr
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 317
Merit: 145



View Profile
April 11, 2018, 11:32:40 AM
Merited by TheFuzzStone (1)
 #4061

~
Sometimes, some new rules are made to favour some people. I prefer the old system though it has its own flaws. We are know early birds are the luckiest in everything. The newbies and those working their way up have to be more strict. What if this merits are given to people and don't merit it?
Which reason make you like the old system? Is it due to the old system give you easier way to rank up? Doing simple stuffs like posting shits, one-lined threads from time to time, and automatically be ranked up when satisfy ranking requirements related to activity count.
I don't see any reason to support old ranking system.
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1571878044
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1571878044

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1571878044
Reply with quote  #2

1571878044
Report to moderator
1571878044
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1571878044

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1571878044
Reply with quote  #2

1571878044
Report to moderator
athanz88
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 476
Merit: 355


View Profile
April 11, 2018, 11:37:42 AM
Merited by TMAN (2)
 #4062

Can you two guys understand that Theymos himself stated that giving negative trust based on people capabilities on talking/writing english is a bad move and he doesnt want it?? Do you know that even ThePharmacist excluded from DT members because of too many "shitposter tags" he had given to people?? I am grateful he is on DT again because he can tag people again, but this time he will make sure it is the cheaters and other abusers.

Last time i checked account buying and selling still can get you a negative trust in this system. Still, account buyer wont get much later if there is other change in the system, like minimal merit requirement in campaign (i have seen some with this requirement to join a campaign), and a lot of adjustment can happen in the future.

Just embrace the system, you can not change the system but you can change yourself, your choice, and usually people who whines a lot just want to get a lot of fortune without doing things.
ilcapitano
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 462
Merit: 14


View Profile
April 11, 2018, 12:22:34 PM
 #4063

~
minimal merit requirement in campaign (i have seen some with this requirement to join a campaign), and a lot of adjustment can happen in the future.
~
I love the idea because it will prevent scammers to join and get money. In fact, most high-paid campaigns, especially campaigns pay its rewards in bitcoin require minimum merit points to join.
I hope that in the future, more campaigns will do it.

Spammers, who fortunately ranked up and stayed at high-ranked levels in the forum will not have chances to join campaign and earn money as the original and ultimate objectives of merit system aim at.

★★★ BitCloak Bitcoin Mixer |BTC & BCH| FAST MIX | API | PGP PROOF | ESCROW ★★★
★ Tor and Clearnet mirrors | Payouts Every 60 seconds | Cheap 2% Service Fee | The Most Advanced Mixer | Discuss More
Duallimit
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 56
Merit: 0


View Profile
April 12, 2018, 02:11:51 AM
 #4064

It will change nothing, except price of merit at black market. And you will se more shit threads and "gimme gimme one, pleaaasee". And suffer from this will be not scammers, but newcomers. Newbies will simply leave the forum to such projects as bountyhive, etc. Or will buy merites for money, so nothing will change.
InvoKing
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1414
Merit: 1064


CryptoTalk.Org - Get Paid for every Post!


View Profile
April 12, 2018, 02:21:24 AM
 #4065

It will change nothing, except price of merit at black market. And you will se more shit threads and "gimme gimme one, pleaaasee".

Don't worry, buying and trading merit will not be possible in the near future. Most users will run out completely from merit in the next few months and only sources will be able to send it.
People sending more than 10 smerit to their folks for posts containing "hohoho i am a stupid illiterate spammer" are not trustworthy and should receive a negative trust even that theymos isn't totally agree with it...

 
                                . ██████████.
                              .████████████████.
                           .██████████████████████.
                        -█████████████████████████████
                     .██████████████████████████████████.
                  -█████████████████████████████████████████
               -███████████████████████████████████████████████
           .-█████████████████████████████████████████████████████.
        .████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████
       .██████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████.
       .██████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████.
       ..████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████..
       .   .██████████████████████████████████████████████████████.
       .      .████████████████████████████████████████████████.

       .       .██████████████████████████████████████████████
       .    ██████████████████████████████████████████████████████
       .█████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████.
        .███████████████████████████████████████████████████████████
           .█████████████████████████████████████████████████████
              .████████████████████████████████████████████████
                   ████████████████████████████████████████
                      ██████████████████████████████████
                          ██████████████████████████
                             ████████████████████
                               ████████████████
                                   █████████
.CryptoTalk.org.|.MAKE POSTS AND EARN BTC!.🏆
captain8
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 308
Merit: 10


View Profile
April 12, 2018, 08:09:11 AM
 #4066

I was literally a week away from becoming a Full Member before this ranking merit change!

Not too sure im keen on when pressing the +merit button it takes you away from the current page!


 Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

Deena
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 238
Merit: 48


View Profile
April 12, 2018, 08:29:42 AM
Last edit: April 12, 2018, 08:42:26 AM by Deena
 #4067

It's stupid really. The merit system does not take away the need for newbies to create post quantity. It only adds a presumed post quality factor. So you now get newbies posting for quantity on the one side and posting for quality on the other. The same type of low quality posting is still going on. The merit system didn't solve anything. I only made a few Legendary members happy because they see stake competition obstructed.
Talk merit
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 244
Merit: 17

Register for Fit to Talk through me


View Profile WWW
April 12, 2018, 08:31:36 AM
 #4068

The new merit system has two important benefits for Bitcoin Talk. The obvious one is the barrier that it creates to reduce the ability of spammers and low value posters to move up the ranks. The other benefit is that it has started to highlight some of the cheaters and members with low standards of morality.  I believe it is a useful enhancement for the forum, and we should embrace it, and do our best to let it continue the good work.

The Talk Merit projects
 - Jet Cash has set up a number of projects for Bitcoin Talk members Click here to see the list.
codemanX
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 616
Merit: 128


View Profile
April 12, 2018, 08:38:08 AM
 #4069

I love that Merit prevents such people from rank up, just writing nearly the same senseless posts on many Topics: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1983310;sa=showPosts
athanz88
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 476
Merit: 355


View Profile
April 12, 2018, 08:43:23 AM
 #4070

It's stupid really. The merit system does not take away the need for newbies to create post quantity. It only adds a presumed post quality. So you now get newbies posting for quantity on the one side and posting for quality on the other. The same type of low quality posting is still going on. The merit system didn't solve anything. I only made a few Legendary members happy because they see stake competition obstructed.

Well not only legendary member, i am happy too because all the cheaters in sig or bounty (even though i did not join bounty) slowed down to reach higher rank. This system is suitable for people who only focus to one account now, unless they already have a lot of high rank account before, but even though they have a lot of it, i think there will be many adjustment in sig or bounty requirement in the future regarding merit, like, minimal merit required to join sig or bounty, not only ranks. They will be forced to up their game too, or if they cheat, it will be easily spotted.

Usually people who whines a lot are :
1. Dont believe in theirself they can get merit.
2. People who are new and want to farm account.
3. People who just want easy money from sig and bounty even though the job is already an easy one (come on, posting is not a hard task, please)
RivAngE
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 672
Merit: 155


What doesn't kill you, makes you stronger


View Profile
April 12, 2018, 09:54:59 AM
 #4071

It's stupid really. The merit system does not take away the need for newbies to create post quantity. It only adds a presumed post quality. So you now get newbies posting for quantity on the one side and posting for quality on the other. The same type of low quality posting is still going on. The merit system didn't solve anything. I only made a few Legendary members happy because they see stake competition obstructed.

Well not only legendary member, i am happy too because all the cheaters in sig or bounty (even though i did not join bounty) slowed down to reach higher rank. This system is suitable for people who only focus to one account now, unless they already have a lot of high rank account before, but even though they have a lot of it, i think there will be many adjustment in sig or bounty requirement in the future regarding merit, like, minimal merit required to join sig or bounty, not only ranks. They will be forced to up their game too, or if they cheat, it will be easily spotted.

Usually people who whines a lot are :
1. Dont believe in theirself they can get merit.
2. People who are new and want to farm account.
3. People who just want easy money from sig and bounty even though the job is already an easy one (come on, posting is not a hard task, please)

4. People who feel the unfairness of having limitations because you were a reader with no account for 6 months and an active member for 5 months, yet spammers who made accounts earlier and people who buy merits seem to be above us and can freely farm signature campaigns.

PS: Was that too specific to my situation? Grin

TheQuin
Hero Member
*****
Online Online

Activity: 1078
Merit: 707


Freebitco.in Support https://bit.ly/2I9BVS2


View Profile WWW
April 12, 2018, 10:20:10 AM
 #4072

4. People who feel the unfairness of having limitations because you were a reader with no account for 6 months and an active member for 5 months, yet spammers who made accounts earlier and people who buy merits seem to be above us and can freely farm signature campaigns.

PS: Was that too specific to my situation? Grin

So you feel unfairness because you arrived too late?

freebitcoin.TO WIN A  LAMBORGHINI!..

.
                                ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄███████████▄▄▄▄▄
                    ▄▄▄▄▄██████████████████████████████████▄▄▄▄
                    ▀██████████████████████████████████████████████▄▄▄
                    ▄▄████▄█████▄████████████████████████████▄█████▄████▄▄
                    ▀████████▀▀▀████████████████████████████████▀▀▀██████████▄
                      ▀▀▀████▄▄▄███████████████████████████████▄▄▄██████████
                           ▀█████▀  ▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀  ▀█████▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀
                   ▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀
RivAngE
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 672
Merit: 155


What doesn't kill you, makes you stronger


View Profile
April 12, 2018, 10:32:15 AM
Merited by OriginTrain (2)
 #4073

4. People who feel the unfairness of having limitations because you were a reader with no account for 6 months and an active member for 5 months, yet spammers who made accounts earlier and people who buy merits seem to be above us and can freely farm signature campaigns.

PS: Was that too specific to my situation? Grin

So you feel unfairness because you arrived too late?


Hmm... not exactly... the problem is that a lot of people I've noticed are less active than me, more spammy and aggressive in their posts... yet they have 500+ more merits than me. The only reason for that is because they joined a few months ago.
I created an account here when I was experienced enough to have something to post but if I had created an account earlier spamming "moon moon" here and there I'd have higher rank and I'd be rewarded with sig campaigns. Isn't this unfair?

They should at least start everyone from the same level. Older members should have sMerit to give but not tons of merit.

Jet Cash
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1414
Merit: 1779


Trying to preserve our heritage.


View Profile WWW
April 12, 2018, 10:36:30 AM
 #4074

If I had bought more Bitcoin when I first started to read about it, I would be a multi-millionaire now. I didn't, so I'm not - does that mean that the Bitcoin system is unfair?

I've added a photography section to Fit to Talk -  The photography and content production board

Hopefully we can use this to help members earn from using budget photo kit whilst they practice their English
TheQuin
Hero Member
*****
Online Online

Activity: 1078
Merit: 707


Freebitco.in Support https://bit.ly/2I9BVS2


View Profile WWW
April 12, 2018, 10:42:26 AM
 #4075

Hmm... not exactly... the problem is that a lot of people I've noticed are less active than me, more spammy and aggressive in their posts... yet they have 500+ more merits than me. The only reason for that is because they joined a few months ago.
I created an account here when I was experienced enough to have something to post but if I had created an account earlier spamming "moon moon" here and there I'd have higher rank and I'd be rewarded with sig campaigns. Isn't this unfair?

There was nothing to stop you posting something constructive even if you didn't have experience. Just reading and then asking questions that weren't fully explained in what you had read.
You're bitter because those that came before you had an easier ride. That's just part of life.

They should at least start everyone from the same level. Older members should have sMerit to give but not tons of merit.

It would have been better if this system was always in place but it wasn't needed then as this forum was used by Bitcoin enthusiasts to meet and discuss relevant issues. Over the years there has been an influx of people that have heard they can make money from posting here. That meant this change was necessary and some way of transitioning to it was required. Grandfathering in existing members is common practice when changes like this are made and that's because it is the fairest way to do. Taking something away from people that they have already earned can never be fair. The fact that it is more difficult to earn it now you'll just have to live with.



If I had bought more Bitcoin when I first started to read about it, I would be a multi-millionaire now. I didn't, so I'm not - does that mean that the Bitcoin system is unfair?

Me too.





freebitcoin.TO WIN A  LAMBORGHINI!..

.
                                ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄███████████▄▄▄▄▄
                    ▄▄▄▄▄██████████████████████████████████▄▄▄▄
                    ▀██████████████████████████████████████████████▄▄▄
                    ▄▄████▄█████▄████████████████████████████▄█████▄████▄▄
                    ▀████████▀▀▀████████████████████████████████▀▀▀██████████▄
                      ▀▀▀████▄▄▄███████████████████████████████▄▄▄██████████
                           ▀█████▀  ▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀  ▀█████▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀
                   ▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀
Flying Hellfish
Staff
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1610
Merit: 1701


Impeach 45


View Profile
April 12, 2018, 11:21:14 AM
 #4076

If I had bought more Bitcoin when I first started to read about it, I would be a multi-millionaire now. I didn't, so I'm not - does that mean that the Bitcoin system is unfair?

Along that theme, if your Aunt had balls she'd be your uncle!   Wink

████████████████████████████
████████▀▀ █▀ █▀ ▀██████████
█████████▄ ▄▄▄▄▄▄███████████
██████████▀     ▀  ▀████████
███████▀ ▀  ▄█▀▀▀█▀▀████████
██████▄      █▄  ▀▀  ▀██████
██████         ▄▄█▄ ▄ ▀█████
█████ ▄         ▀▀ ▄ ▀ █████
██████▌          █▀█▀ ▐█████
███████  ▄▌         ▄ ██████
████████▄█         ▄████████
█████████▀     ▄▄ ▄█████████
████████████████████████████
.JACKMATE'S...........
.
MAJESTIC..
████████████████████████
███████████████████████
████████████████████████
████████████████████████
████████████████████████
████████████████████████
████████████████████████
████████████████████████
████████████████████████
████████████████████████
████████████████████████
████████████████████████
████████████████████████
.
..WIN 1 BITCOIN ON EVERY PREMIER LEAGUE MATCHDAY..
████████████████████████████████
████████████▀█▀ ▀█▀█▀███████████
███████████▄ ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄████████████
███████████▀▀▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄███████████
█████████▀▄ ██▀▄▄▄ ▀ ▄▀█████████
███████▀ ▀█████▄▄▄█▄▄▄██████████
███████▀▄████████▀  ▀█ █▐███████
███████ ▀█████████▄█▀▀██ ███████
████████ ███▀██████ ▄ ██ ███████
████████▌▐▀▄ ██████████ ▄███████
█████████▄██▌▐█████▀██ █████████
████████████▄▀▀▀▀▀▄ ▀▄██████████
████████████████████████████████
.
.JOIN US - IT'S FREE! .
athanz88
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 476
Merit: 355


View Profile
April 12, 2018, 11:28:39 AM
 #4077

snip

There was nothing to stop you posting something constructive even if you didn't have experience. Just reading and then asking questions that weren't fully explained in what you had read.
You're bitter because those that came before you had an easier ride. That's just part of life.

snip

It would have been better if this system was always in place but it wasn't needed then as this forum was used by Bitcoin enthusiasts to meet and discuss relevant issues. Over the years there has been an influx of people that have heard they can make money from posting here. That meant this change was necessary and some way of transitioning to it was required. Grandfathering in existing members is common practice when changes like this are made and that's because it is the fairest way to do. Taking something away from people that they have already earned can never be fair. The fact that it is more difficult to earn it now you'll just have to live with.



If I had bought more Bitcoin when I first started to read about it, I would be a multi-millionaire now. I didn't, so I'm not - does that mean that the Bitcoin system is unfair?

Me too.






The level of bitcoin unfairness for me is too high too.  Cry

Quote from: for RivAnge
Do you have older siblings? is it unfair when he is in high school with bad grades and got higher allowance (say 100usd a month, just example) and you only have half of it while you are a middle schooler with good grade just because he was born years earlier before you?

And once again, signature campaign is not a reward. This forum doesnt have any obligation to reward you in any way. It is a privilige and people earn it, it is not given. Previous system made it easier to earn it, now you have to play by the rules of merit to earn that privilege.
RivAngE
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 672
Merit: 155


What doesn't kill you, makes you stronger


View Profile
April 12, 2018, 12:15:27 PM
Last edit: April 12, 2018, 01:37:13 PM by RivAngE
 #4078

Do you have older siblings? is it unfair when he is in high school with bad grades and got higher allowance (say 100usd a month, just example) and you only have half of it while you are a middle schooler with good grade just because he was born years earlier before you?

And once again, signature campaign is not a reward. This forum doesnt have any obligation to reward you in any way. It is a privilige and people earn it, it is not given. Previous system made it easier to earn it, now you have to play by the rules of merit to earn that privilege.

I don't have any siblings to be honest but this whole conversation has gone off trails with examples of how unfair the whole world is!

Just because "A" is unfair, it doesn't mean we should stop thinking of ways to make "B" more fair. We're in a forum that's all about a new technology and moving the world forward after all!
But okay I get it, a lot of you seem to agree that it's the better of two evils, it's a bit unfair but it's better than not having it at all. I believe that having this system with a different implementation that wouldn't create such huge gaps would be better.

For example, a 1 year old member can have 500 more merits than a member registered today. For this system to be called 100% fair in my simple mind, the new member should be able to get 500 merits in one year if he's as much active as the other members with 500 merits were in average and with quality posting. Am I mistaken about the amount of merits 1 year old active members have? I'm not sure but I believe I'm right. The merit system is almost 4 months old, have you seen anyone with 166 merits? I doubt there's even A SINGLE ONE.

So no, I'm not bitter because it's a bit unfair, I'm bitter because it's very unfair, I'm in the wrong side and it'd be easy to be done better but they're not updating the system.

TheQuin
Hero Member
*****
Online Online

Activity: 1078
Merit: 707


Freebitco.in Support https://bit.ly/2I9BVS2


View Profile WWW
April 12, 2018, 12:22:21 PM
Last edit: April 12, 2018, 12:36:16 PM by TheQuin
Merited by RivAngE (1)
 #4079

The merit system is almost 4 months old, have you seen anyone with 166 merits? I double there's even A SINGLE ONE.

The system started on the 24th January so it is less than 3 months old.

This guy has 109 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1554927
This guy has 717 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=976210

I started with 250 and now have 532

There's many more if you look around.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=merit;stats=topusersat

Edit:
I just stumbled on a Full Member with 290. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=182284
By finding his thread https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3301314.msg34467837#msg34467837

freebitcoin.TO WIN A  LAMBORGHINI!..

.
                                ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄███████████▄▄▄▄▄
                    ▄▄▄▄▄██████████████████████████████████▄▄▄▄
                    ▀██████████████████████████████████████████████▄▄▄
                    ▄▄████▄█████▄████████████████████████████▄█████▄████▄▄
                    ▀████████▀▀▀████████████████████████████████▀▀▀██████████▄
                      ▀▀▀████▄▄▄███████████████████████████████▄▄▄██████████
                           ▀█████▀  ▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀  ▀█████▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀
                   ▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀
athanz88
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 476
Merit: 355


View Profile
April 12, 2018, 12:55:25 PM
 #4080

snip

I don't have any siblings to be honest but this whole conversation has gone off trails with examples of how unfair the whole world is!

Just because "A" is unfair, it doesn't mean we should stop thinking of ways to make "B" more fair. We're in a forum that's all about a new technology and moving the world forward after all!
But okay I get it, a lot of you seem to agree that it's the better of two evils, it's a bit unfair but it's better than not having it at all. I believe that having this system with a different implementation that wouldn't create such huge gaps would be better.

For example, a 1 year old member can have 500 more merits than a member registered today. For this system to be called 100% fair in my simple mind, the new member should be able to get 500 merits in one year if he's as much active as the other members with 500 merits were in average and with quality posting. Am I mistaken about the amount of merits 1 year old active members have? I'm not sure but I believe I'm right. The merit system is almost 4 months old, have you seen anyone with 166 merits? I double there's even A SINGLE ONE.

So no, I'm not bitter because it's a bit unfair, I'm bitter because it's very unfair, I'm in the wrong side and it'd be easy to be done better but they're not updating the system.

Unfairness is just a simple thinking on how to escape reality that you are a loser who can not take any blame on you like, why :
1. didnt i join forum earlier?
2. didnt i buy bitcoin earlier?
3. didnt i make a move before to make me rich?
It creates a lot of "if only", and instead of taking up those blame to yourself, you blame people who did it earlier than you and when things changed, you called it unfair.

And no, your suggestion is just the same as activity point like the past system.
Pages: « 1 ... 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 [204] 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 ... 306 »
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!