[BitFunder] Moving Forward/Resolution Process

[moribana]

Next thing is... you knew long time that payouts dont work and you did nothing. I probably wouldnt have uploaded my many bitcoins to weexchange if there was a warning about the problems.

This is actually the only point in the whole story that is

1) A fact everyone knows who is involved
2) Proves that Ukyo, at lest in some respects, did not act in good faith to resolve the problems.

Given this, it is very hard to believe anything that we are told.

[1713575773]

1713575773

[SebastianJu]

Why does Ukyo need so much capital?  The probable answer is that he's pissing it away on gambling or bad investments.

If he really would be such a ill gambler then for sure he would have used all the bitcoins since he could not help himself than trying to win it back with the remaining bitcoins. So i think that possibility is unlikely. If it was ukyo, which he denies, then it would be something more rational.

[skrzypu]

Could anybody help me, how I can withdrawal btc from weexchange? I can't see any option on weexclaims.weexchange.

[WeexUser]

Could anybody help me, how I can withdrawal btc from weexchange? I can't see any option on weexclaims.weexchange.

There is currently an issue with some bitcoin clients. Weex's bitcoin client happen to be one of them. Ukyo is currently working on fixing it:

Right now since most business dealings are still wrapping up from the holidays and we are waiting for responses, I am focused on working on a
solution to correct for the bitcoind block 177596 issue and rework the system to integrate with newer versions of bitcoind.

[g83]

Only just one question Ukyo.

Could you please set any timeframe? I know it's hard to state, but lot of ppl have lost investment oppurtunities. F.E. KNC new batch miners.

I really understand your position and we wish you the best and precieate what you have done already, but however we need our frozen funds. This post is not intend to push you, but just to give us overview - I know that's in your best business and ours to do not spread information about this issue until solution, but timeframe would be very welcome.

+10000

[glendall]

Could anybody help me, how I can withdrawal btc from weexchange? I can't see any option on weexclaims.weexchange.

You have likely been scammed.  Ukyo owes the community over 2 million dollars and owes some people for deposits they made over 2 months ago.

[glendall]

I'm really glad to see that many of you are coming around to see the light, instead of just buying the BS.

What Jon has said just doesn't add up, the most likely scenario is he did something illegal with all the money trusted to him, and I'm glad many of you are finally beginning to realize this instead of being in denial or being placated by the bS  " I can't talk about this because of legal stuff" (i.e Ukyo probably did something criminal so doesn't want to tell you) nonsense which is only self-serving.

[Kosmatos]

I'm really glad to see that many of you are coming around to see the light, instead of just buying the BS.

What Jon has said just doesn't add up, the most likely scenario is he did something illegal with all the money trusted to him, and I'm glad many of you are finally beginning to realize this instead of being in denial or being placated by the bS  " I can't talk about this because of legal stuff" (i.e Ukyo probably did something criminal so doesn't want to tell you) nonsense which is only self-serving.

Well, I'm "still in denial" simply because Cryptocyprus got involved and seems to know what's going on, and clearly he feels Ukyo has not scammed anyone.

I trust him, who is setting up Neo & Bee, the business in Cyprus, than you, even if you do have a knack or a lot of experience in spotting scams.

Note, FFS, this is just an opinion. Not a personal attack.

[WeexUser]

What Jon has said just doesn't add up

Actually, one of the few thing that wouldn't add up in my opinion is if Jon is scamming us.

Why would Jon request AsicMiner to stop sending him bitcoins?
Why would Danny, the CEO of one of the biggest bitcoin startups, get involved in a scam?
Why would Jon spend time going to Croatia to work with Danny?
Why would Jon spend time making and sending the shareholder lists to the issuers?
Why would Jon send time creating the weex, AM, and loan claim portals?
Why would Jon spend time fixing a (verifiable) bug in the bitcoin client?
Why would Jon not just stay anonymous? He is not exactly hard to track down..
And what about Jon's wife and kids?

If he is a scammer why didn't he, instead of spending months on all of the above, just use one of the greatest features of bitcoin and just disappear in a single day?

Some people here write that Jon and Danny have apparently broken a lot of promises in the past months.
The only broken promise I can remember was Danny promising to post an update on a Friday. The update came Saturday, the day after..

If anyone found a provable lie or broken promise made by Jon or Danny in the past months, feel free to post them.

[twentyseventy]

What Jon has said just doesn't add up

Actually, one of the few thing that wouldn't add up in my opinion is if Jon is scamming us.

Why would Jon request AsicMiner to stop sending him bitcoins?
Why would Danny, the CEO of one of the biggest bitcoin startups, get involved in a scam?
Why would Jon spend time going to Croatia to work with Danny?
Why would Jon spend time making and sending the shareholder lists to the issuers?
Why would Jon send time creating the weex, AM, and loan claim portals?
Why would Jon spend time fixing a (verifiable) bug in the bitcoin client?
Why would Jon not just stay anonymous? He is not exactly hard to track down..
And what about Jon's wife and kids?

If he is a scammer why didn't he, instead of spending months on all of the above, just use one of the greatest features of bitcoin and just disappear in a single day?

Some people here write that Jon and Danny have apparently broken a lot of promises in the past months.
The only broken promise I can remember was Danny promising to post an update on a Friday. The update came Saturday, the day after..

If anyone found a provable lie or broken promise made by Jon or Danny in the past months, feel free to post them.

I'm pretty sure that the 'withdrawal' button on BF/Weex is a lie, isn't it?

[Kouye]

My bet is Ukyo actually got scammed himself and is getting help to try and get the coins back.
But that most likely won't happen.

[SebastianJu]

My bet is Ukyo actually got scammed himself and is getting help to try and get the coins back.
But that most likely won't happen.

Thats what i would bet on too. But does ukyo really think the thieve would give it back? In fact he would prevent us from going after him and would help him vanishing.

But if thats true i would be even more angry since that means my deposit was part of the 6% payout that was spread out to all others. The payouts with "technical problems" would have been slow because ukyo had to wait for new coins coming in from deposits to pay out to other users. And i only deposited so that all users can get a small share back.

This situation is ... (i cant express)

[glendall]

My bet is Ukyo actually got scammed himself and is getting help to try and get the coins back.
But that most likely won't happen.

Thats what i would bet on too. But does ukyo really think the thieve would give it back? In fact he would prevent us from going after him and would help him vanishing.

But if thats true i would be even more angry since that means my deposit was part of the 6% payout that was spread out to all others. The payouts with "technical problems" would have been slow because ukyo had to wait for new coins coming in from deposits to pay out to other users. And i only deposited so that all users can get a small share back.

This situation is ... (i cant express)

SebastianJu I have a question for you.  And I'm not trolling, not angry, which just really like to hear a rational answer to these questions:

1) Do you really think it is feasible that Ukyo has had a technical problem with bitcoind that has locked millions of dollars of BTC up?  For over 2 months.  That he  has not been able to resolve ,even with outside help? I don't think this is possible, but I admit I do not know bitcoind that well. Do you think is this reasonable that the problem could not be fixed with over 500 man hours and outside help?

2) If [1] is true, why has Ukyo said that "the coins are gone" and he has been unable to talk about the matter because of 'legal reasons' ?

3) If the problems were purely technical in nature, why would Ukyo still take deposits knowing full well he would not be able to pay them back for a period of over 45 days?

I just don't see any likely answers to these questions unless the coins were misused or stolen by Ukyo.

[WeexUser]

The payouts with "technical problems" would have been slow because ukyo had to wait for new coins coming in from deposits to pay out to other users.

The amount of tinfoil required for that statement to be realistic is a bit too high in my opinion
Deposits were stopped long before the portal was even announced. (Yes, I know it is still possible to deposit if you know the deposit address but you can't avoid that)

A question I really want an answer to and which he might actually be able to answer:
How are the dispersed bitcoins different to the bitcoins which are stuck? Where did they come from?

[glendall]

My bet is Ukyo actually got scammed himself and is getting help to try and get the coins back.
But that most likely won't happen.

Thats what i would bet on too. But does ukyo really think the thieve would give it back? In fact he would prevent us from going after him and would help him vanishing.

But if thats true i would be even more angry since that means my deposit was part of the 6% payout that was spread out to all others. The payouts with "technical problems" would have been slow because ukyo had to wait for new coins coming in from deposits to pay out to other users. And i only deposited so that all users can get a small share back.

This situation is ... (i cant express)

If it is true that Ukyo was scammed and had the coins stolen:

1) Why would he not be able to talk about it?  It would be a legitimate 'excuse' for losing millions if it was stolen, and he could show proof that it was stolen, and Ukyo move on from it it, and aid an investigation to find the perp.  If the coins were stolen, why would Ukyo keep this secret?  It would be in his best legal interest to inform the public instead of leaving his services open for months.

2) If the coins were stolen, why would he continue to accept deposits for a period of over 2 months ? Why would  he leave the website open?

3) Okay let's the coins were scammed. Why would he know this and then take out, and continue to take out, big loans of BTC from the community? He would know that his name would be destroyed from this so it is doubtful really be considering opening up more businesses.

I'm just trying to illustrate, if you look at the whole matter, the most likely and reasonable explanation for what happened is that Ukyo did something illegal and wrongfully took millions of dollars worth of BTC from the community.

I am open to any rational,  convincing counter-arguments to the premise ' Ukyo stole millions of dollars from us' but I so far have not really found any.  

[Kouye]

My bet is Ukyo actually got scammed himself and is getting help to try and get the coins back.
But that most likely won't happen.

Thats what i would bet on too. But does ukyo really think the thieve would give it back? In fact he would prevent us from going after him and would help him vanishing.

But if thats true i would be even more angry since that means my deposit was part of the 6% payout that was spread out to all others. The payouts with "technical problems" would have been slow because ukyo had to wait for new coins coming in from deposits to pay out to other users. And i only deposited so that all users can get a small share back.

This situation is ... (i cant express)

SebastianJu I have a question for you.  And I'm not trolling, not angry, which just really like to hear a rational answer to these questions:

1) Do you really think it is feasible that Ukyo has had a technical problem with bitcoind that has locked millions of dollars of BTC up?  For over 2 months.  That he  has not been able to resolve ,even with outside help? I don't think this is possible, but I admit I do not know bitcoind that well. Do you think is this reasonable that the problem could not be fixed with over 500 man hours and outside help?

2) If [1] is true, why has Ukyo said that "the coins are gone" and he has been unable to talk about the matter because of 'legal reasons' ?

3) If the problems were purely technical in nature, why would Ukyo still take deposits knowing full well he would not be able to pay them back for a period of over 45 days?

I just don't see any likely answers to these questions unless the coins were misused or stolen by Ukyo.

I'll sharpen my bet... Ukyo had most of the coins invested on Coinlenders.
Which would answer to all of your questions.

[glendall]

^^ Yes that's what I believe too. No I don't know for sure. But I think that the is the most likely answer.  

I believe the most likely explanation is that Ukyo was using deposits that he had no right to be fucking with in his own failed attempts at investing / gambling on the market.

If you look at the timeline, you will also see that all these problems happened --surprise surprise-- just after BTC was around $200 and began it's new-boom to a steady $1000 mark. I don't think the price-of-btc against the timeline of this fiasco is a coincidence.


Obviously Ukyo can do anything he chooses with his own BTC.  But you can not unknowingly use the BTC of others as leverage in your investments without consent, that's just plain thievery. And Ukyo is not Goldman Sachs so he will not get away with it. Honestly I would not accept $3 million dollars USD to be in his shoes right now. As I said I've made peace with losing my $1000 some odd bucks, but Ukyo, as his identity is known, is going to have a lot more Angry Random Internet People after him In Real Life for amounts of far over $1000 dollars, using both legal and illegal methods (that I don't condone!). If he was gambling with users' deposits I just feel sorry for him, he made the next couple years of his life about 1000x more difficult.

[WeexUser]

1) Do you really think it is feasible that Ukyo has had a technical problem with bitcoind that has locked millions of dollars of BTC up?  For over 2 months.  That he  has not been able to resolve ,even with outside help? I don't think this is possible, but I admit I do not know bitcoind that well. Do you think is this reasonable that the problem could not be fixed with over 500 man hours and outside help?

2) If [1] is true, why has Ukyo said that "the coins are gone" and he has been unable to talk about the matter because of 'legal reasons' ?

3) If the problems were purely technical in nature, why would Ukyo still take deposits knowing full well he would not be able to pay them back for a period of over 45 days?

I just don't see any likely answers to these questions unless the coins were misused or stolen by Ukyo.

I'm not Sebastian but this is my opinion:
I don't think the problem is purely technical. I do believe that there was and still is a technical issue with the bitcoind client. (except for the current "block issue") But not an issue that has locked the funds, that just wouldn't add up.
It sounds to me like his client randomly shuts down when used due to the wallet containing a huge amount of addresses. On the claim page that has been temporarily fixed by having the client restart and in the mean time display the error message, instead of him doing manual withdrawals as he did in the beginning.

But I don't think that is the actual issue here. When reading his messages from the forum and IRC, I think it is clear that "something" happened a bit before the 20. November. It was around that date he stopped manual withdrawals, disabled deposits, contacted Friedcat, Danny got involved, it became a "legal issue", and Jon stopped posting on the forums(he was on IRC though).

[CumpsD]

Why would Danny, the CEO of one of the biggest bitcoin startups, get involved in a scam?

Speaking of which, it's been a long time since we heard of him in this thread

[fuckukyo]

Why would Danny, the CEO of one of the biggest bitcoin startups, get involved in a scam?

Because he's a scammer as well, I will never trust any of those so called "banks" in the future.