ODI cricket and general cricketing discussion [self - mod]

[JSRAW]

Now two decades back one of India's famous cricketer is also known for his sledging. You cannot miss out on  those sledging controversies of Virat Kohli. He has a bad reputation within the team and outside the team. I guess he took on the baton of sledging from yester year Australian team.

In Aussie worldview, in last decade Virat was the only Indian batter to get into their own national team without any fuss, only because of this attitude. Also background also matters, as you know Virat is from Delhi and you can't survive in Delhi cricket circuit without this attitude (Unless you're funny character like Sehwag and Nehra ji), it's extremely tough in local level, just look at Virat and Gambhir.

[YinShuiSiYuan]

Two decades ago, Australians were the only ones who would do sledging. Not just the Indians, but also the Poms and the Proteas used to complain about it. It was Sourav Ganguly who gave back some of it to the Australians for the first time. Sreesanth was the first Indian player who had the ability to sledge, but he got banned as a result of internal politics. Now I would say that Indian players are more experienced in sledging compared to the Australians (especially Kohli, Saini, Bumrah.etc), but manytimes they cross the limit and antagonize the Indian cricket fans.

You can sledge if you have too strong team or you have a strong board behind you. SA were also good in sledging when they have strong team back in era of Cronje. I don't think Indians have surpassed Aussies in sledging, since aussies were taught about this technique since they start playing cricket.

[laurenB7742]

The first thing that comes to my mind about Andrew Symonds is the altercation he had with Harbhajan Singh. While Harbhajan was bowling to Symonds, the former tried to sledge him by saying "Teri maa ki **** (your mom's ***)". Symonds, with zero knowledge in Hindi language misunderstood "maa ki" as "monkey". Being half-Caribbean, Symonds was extremely offended and he filed a complaint with the match referee for racial abuse. I am not sure what happened next, but I remember that Harbhajan refused to apologize for his boorish behavior.

Well, what can I say? That's typical Indian behavior. Sledding and trash-talking are actually good but to a certain extent. I believe trash-talking should not be personal at all. There was obviously some misunderstanding but ideally, I think that Harbhajan should have come ahead and cleared this thing. At least he should have come forward and cleared the thing about racism.

Being an Indian, I feel quite offended. Harbhajan Singh doesn't represent everyone in India. And in each and every country, you will find such type of people. And also, let's don't forget the fact that Australians are masters of sledging. Remember the famous verbal duel between Ramnaresh Sarwan and Glen McGrath? Without any provocation, McGrath sledged Sarwan, asking him: "How does Lara's *** taste like?".. Sarwan replied: "I don't know.. ask your wife". McGrath got in to a fit, and his wife was hospitalized with cancer at that time. But again, who started this?

This statement might sound  exaggeration to North Indian's ears (including Pakistani Punjab) Maaki and behan ki are more like helping verbs and casually used by almost every north indian in daily life be it with friends or when they are fighting. Just watch any Ind vs Pak series pre 2007 for example.

This was the first test series i started following the Indian team and ironically this is the same series when Aussie team earned the term " Pack of Wolve/wild dogs". The amount of cheating Aussie did in this series were freaking embarrassing and cheating not only on technical level but gully cricket cheating, including umpires and almost every Australian media wanted Pointing's head due to this.

Well, what might sound very regular to someone, might sound very offensive to others. Harbhajan Sing did not have any higher education if I remember correctly. He just had schooling. He went to Jai Hind model School. Other than that I did not find any solid educational background in this player and to be honest I don't think we can expect any kind of good behavior from a person who is not properly educated. I am not saying this to verbally attack anyone. I am just giving a general thought.

But, another thing is probably he was really frustrated and that's why he could not control his emotion. Because that can often happen in the flow of things. And Australia was playing dirty in that series if I remember correctly. There was some blatant cheating.

[coinism]

Well, what might sound very regular to someone, might sound very offensive to others. Harbhajan Sing did not have any higher education if I remember correctly. He just had schooling. He went to Jai Hind model School. Other than that I did not find any solid educational background in this player and to be honest I don't think we can expect any kind of good behavior from a person who is not properly educated. I am not saying this to verbally attack anyone. I am just giving a general thought.

But, another thing is probably he was really frustrated and that's why he could not control his emotion. Because that can often happen in the flow of things. And Australia was playing dirty in that series if I remember correctly. There was some blatant cheating.

As far I know Australians are educated but they are worst when it comes to ethics and behaviour with opponents. Shane Warne row with Samules in BBL is not that old. While Srilanka, NZ, Pakistan and westindies are best when it comes to moral vales and behaviour with opponents.

[kro55]

Now two decades back one of India's famous cricketer is also known for his sledging. You cannot miss out on  those sledging controversies of Virat Kohli. He has a bad reputation within the team and outside the team. I guess he took on the baton of sledging from yester year Australian team.

In Aussie worldview, in last decade Virat was the only Indian batter to get into their own national team without any fuss, only because of this attitude. Also background also matters, as you know Virat is from Delhi and you can't survive in Delhi cricket circuit without this attitude (Unless you're funny character like Sehwag and Nehra ji), it's extremely tough in local level, just look at Virat and Gambhir.

Australian players are known for some very good amount of sledging but they never talk about anything racial or anything that is too personal. At least that's what I think. Australia really liked to play mind games. They always tried to have any type of advantage that they could get over their opponent. And it is absolutely true that not only in India but in almost the whole region if you have a good background and powerful people who can recommend you, you will be able to play in the Indian team very quickly.

[Sithara007]

Australian players are known for some very good amount of sledging but they never talk about anything racial or anything that is too personal. At least that's what I think. Australia really liked to play mind games. They always tried to have any type of advantage that they could get over their opponent. And it is absolutely true that not only in India but in almost the whole region if you have a good background and powerful people who can recommend you, you will be able to play in the Indian team very quickly.

This is where I have disagreement with Kohli and his sidekicks (Siraj, Saini.etc). Australians do sledge, but they never cross the line. On the other hand, Kohli and his cronies resort to physical aggression as well, when things doesn't go their way. Kohli behaves like a monkey in the field, always shouting and booing. Also, remember the incident in IPL, when Saini hit Tewatia with a beamer, and then refused to apologize? A few matches later, he did the same to Stoinis as well (2020 season, if I am not wrong). Saini just walked away, believing that hitting a batsmen with a beamer will somehow showcase his "macho" nature. And his captain (Kohli) was perfectly OK with this behavior.

[JSRAW]

This statement might sound  exaggeration to North Indian's ears (including Pakistani Punjab) Maaki and behan ki are more like helping verbs and casually used by almost every north indian in daily life be it with friends or when they are fighting. Just watch any Ind vs Pak series pre 2007 for example.

This was the first test series i started following the Indian team and ironically this is the same series when Aussie team earned the term " Pack of Wolve/wild dogs". The amount of cheating Aussie did in this series were freaking embarrassing and cheating not only on technical level but gully cricket cheating, including umpires and almost every Australian media wanted Pointing's head due to this.

Well, what might sound very regular to someone, might sound very offensive to others. Harbhajan Sing did not have any higher education if I remember correctly. He just had schooling. He went to Jai Hind model School. Other than that I did not find any solid educational background in this player and to be honest I don't think we can expect any kind of good behavior from a person who is not properly educated. I am not saying this to verbally attack anyone. I am just giving a general thought.

But, another thing is probably he was really frustrated and that's why he could not control his emotion. Because that can often happen in the flow of things. And Australia was playing dirty in that series if I remember correctly. There was some blatant cheating.

Let's not confuse higher education/speaking fluent English with intelligence/civilised etc.

In county Pujara and every brown player were called Steve and Paki, just to make fun.
Harbhajan was mocked by Aussie cricketer because he was wearing turban, they literally said " You got balls on your head?" We all know what "Balls" they were talking about.
Aussie used to sledge Ranatunga with " Black cunt" "Fat cunt". Jayasuriya faced many "Black Monkey" remarks from Mcgrath and for Moeen Ali they used " Osama"

In Aussie worldview, in last decade Virat was the only Indian batter to get into their own national team without any fuss, only because of this attitude. Also background also matters, as you know Virat is from Delhi and you can't survive in Delhi cricket circuit without this attitude (Unless you're funny character like Sehwag and Nehra ji), it's extremely tough in local level, just look at Virat and Gambhir.

Australian players are known for some very good amount of sledging but they never talk about anything racial or anything that is too personal. At least that's what I think. Australia really liked to play mind games. They always tried to have any type of advantage that they could get over their opponent. And it is absolutely true that not only in India but in almost the whole region if you have a good background and powerful people who can recommend you, you will be able to play in the Indian team very quickly.

Hmm

Well we must be following different Australian teams. In my reading and experience Aussie team top the list in racial abuse and being too personal on the cricketing field without any doubt. Having said that i agree that post Sand Paper controversy they changed the tune, not completely but there is a significant improvement.

When i said " Extremely tough in local level" i didn't meant having a god-father or well connected. I was referring to cut throat competition and rawness behaviour in the local circuit. I've said this many time that the only thing i like about BCCI is they never rely on Nepotism when selecting a national team, yeah you could find some examples in Ranji etc but it would be for max 1-2 match because of competition.

[coinism]

This is where I have disagreement with Kohli and his sidekicks (Siraj, Saini.etc). Australians do sledge, but they never cross the line. On the other hand, Kohli and his cronies resort to physical aggression as well, when things doesn't go their way. Kohli behaves like a monkey in the field, always shouting and booing. Also, remember the incident in IPL, when Saini hit Tewatia with a beamer, and then refused to apologize? A few matches later, he did the same to Stoinis as well (2020 season, if I am not wrong). Saini just walked away, believing that hitting a batsmen with a beamer will somehow showcase his "macho" nature. And his captain (Kohli) was perfectly OK with this behavior.

Sledging is a bad thing you can't say there is good Sledging and bad Sledging. Aus are professional in Sledging since they are doing it for ages now while Indians are somewhat new to this domain. Kohli no doubt is great player but worse when it comes to his behavior with opposite teams.

[laurenB7742]

-snip-

Let's not confuse higher education/speaking fluent English with intelligence/civilised etc.

In county Pujara and every brown player were called Steve and Paki, just to make fun.
Harbhajan was mocked by Aussie cricketer because he was wearing turban, they literally said " You got balls on your head?" We all know what "Balls" they were talking about.
Aussie used to sledge Ranatunga with " Black cunt" "Fat cunt". Jayasuriya faced many "Black Monkey" remarks from Mcgrath and for Moeen Ali they used " Osama"

Well, that is a problem of mentality. Only people with a sick mentality can do those things or say racist things to people. Actually, the Australian players had too much pride in themselves because they are one of the best teams ever to play cricket.

I will never understand how someone can say that to a person that he does not know personally. If they are friends with each other then it's okay because friends can do such things among each other but you cannot say that to a complete stranger or your opponent in this case.

[YinShuiSiYuan]

Well, that is a problem of mentality. Only people with a sick mentality can do those things or say racist things to people. Actually, the Australian players had too much pride in themselves because they are one of the best teams ever to play cricket.

I will never understand how someone can say that to a person that he does not know personally. If they are friends with each other then it's okay because friends can do such things among each other but you cannot say that to a complete stranger or your opponent in this case.

Aussies have pride and its only in cricket, if they do such cheap tactics in football or other sports they will be banned. Since fifa is much more strong then ICC. Sledging is fine only if you are trying to make batsmen do some mistake but not using any unethical wording.

[kro55]

~

Hmm

Well we must be following different Australian teams. In my reading and experience Aussie team top the list in racial abuse and being too personal on the cricketing field without any doubt. Having said that i agree that post Sand Paper controversy they changed the tune, not completely but there is a significant improvement.

When i said " Extremely tough in local level" i didn't meant having a god-father or well connected. I was referring to cut throat competition and rawness behaviour in the local circuit. I've said this many time that the only thing i like about BCCI is they never rely on Nepotism when selecting a national team, yeah you could find some examples in Ranji etc but it would be for max 1-2 match because of competition.

Actually, I was talking about the present Australian team. In recent times I do not think they did something to really prove that they are very racist in every way. In the past, if I remember correctly when they were playing against West Indies they almost always talk about racial stuff. In the whole cricketing world, no one was brave enough to sledge Vivian Richards but the Australian players still tried to throw some racial stuff at him. And I think we all know how sir Vivian Richards reacted to sledging.
I was talking about the recent incident because time has changed and so have the laws.

~

This is where I have disagreement with Kohli and his sidekicks (Siraj, Saini.etc). Australians do sledge, but they never cross the line. On the other hand, Kohli and his cronies resort to physical aggression as well, when things doesn't go their way. Kohli behaves like a monkey in the field, always shouting and booing. Also, remember the incident in IPL, when Saini hit Tewatia with a beamer, and then refused to apologize? A few matches later, he did the same to Stoinis as well (2020 season, if I am not wrong). Saini just walked away, believing that hitting a batsmen with a beamer will somehow showcase his "macho" nature. And his captain (Kohli) was perfectly OK with this behavior.

How a player can hit a batsman who is most probably going to play together in the national team and think that it is badass let alone a player from another country!

Yes, I know that sometimes bowlers try to do this because they want to apply fear into their opponent's hearts but I think that is more for test cricket and not so much for the t20. And we have already seen a few players die because of getting hit on the head in cricket. So, I don't know how someone can think of it as an achievement.

[Juggy777]

~

Hmm

Well we must be following different Australian teams. In my reading and experience Aussie team top the list in racial abuse and being too personal on the cricketing field without any doubt. Having said that i agree that post Sand Paper controversy they changed the tune, not completely but there is a significant improvement.

When i said " Extremely tough in local level" i didn't meant having a god-father or well connected. I was referring to cut throat competition and rawness behaviour in the local circuit. I've said this many time that the only thing i like about BCCI is they never rely on Nepotism when selecting a national team, yeah you could find some examples in Ranji etc but it would be for max 1-2 match because of competition.

Actually, I was talking about the present Australian team. In recent times I do not think they did something to really prove that they are very racist in every way. In the past, if I remember correctly when they were playing against West Indies they almost always talk about racial stuff. In the whole cricketing world, no one was brave enough to sledge Vivian Richards but the Australian players still tried to throw some racial stuff at him. And I think we all know how sir Vivian Richards reacted to sledging.
I was talking about the recent incident because time has changed and so have the laws.

~

This is where I have disagreement with Kohli and his sidekicks (Siraj, Saini.etc). Australians do sledge, but they never cross the line. On the other hand, Kohli and his cronies resort to physical aggression as well, when things doesn't go their way. Kohli behaves like a monkey in the field, always shouting and booing. Also, remember the incident in IPL, when Saini hit Tewatia with a beamer, and then refused to apologize? A few matches later, he did the same to Stoinis as well (2020 season, if I am not wrong). Saini just walked away, believing that hitting a batsmen with a beamer will somehow showcase his "macho" nature. And his captain (Kohli) was perfectly OK with this behavior.

How a player can hit a batsman who is most probably going to play together in the national team and think that it is badass let alone a player from another country!

Yes, I know that sometimes bowlers try to do this because they want to apply fear into their opponent's hearts but I think that is more for test cricket and not so much for the t20. And we have already seen a few players die because of getting hit on the head in cricket. So, I don't know how someone can think of it as an achievement.

@JSRAW it’s true that the sandpaper controversy and the quitting of Tim Paine has led the Australia side to change how they behave on the pitch, but I feel that sooner or later they’ll be back to their old ways i.e. win at any cost mentality. Furthermore after being removed as the captain of India, I don’t think Virat has shown much aggression for team India, and I wonder will we see a new calm Virat in the ODI format when the new ODI series begins?.

[Sithara007]

How a player can hit a batsman who is most probably going to play together in the national team and think that it is badass let alone a player from another country!

Yes, I know that sometimes bowlers try to do this because they want to apply fear into their opponent's hearts but I think that is more for test cricket and not so much for the t20. And we have already seen a few players die because of getting hit on the head in cricket. So, I don't know how someone can think of it as an achievement.

Agreed. A beamer directed towards the batsmen can be very dangerous. And trust me, most of the fast bowlers around the world are capable of doing that, but keeping the spirit of cricket in mind they refrain from doing so. If they need to intimidate the batsmen, then they would bowl a few toecrushers and bouncers. But those bowlers who are incapable of doing this, go the illegal route of bowling beamers. Actually I wasn't shocked by Saini's behavior. I was more shocked with the response from Kohli, who encouraged this sort of behavior rather than reprimanding the bowler. In any other league, these two would have been handed down suspension for a few matches. Anyway, Saini's career is more or less finished.

[JSRAW]

@JSRAW it’s true that the sandpaper controversy and the quitting of Tim Paine has led the Australia side to change how they behave on the pitch, but I feel that sooner or later they’ll be back to their old ways i.e. win at any cost mentality. Furthermore after being removed as the captain of India, I don’t think Virat has shown much aggression for team India, and I wonder will we see a new calm Virat in the ODI format when the new ODI series begins?.

IMO After losing captaincy camera stopped following him religiously, hence we don't see much of him going gaga over every delivery. So i would argue that nothing has changed in Kohli's attitude. He's still passionate and aggressive cricketer on the field most of the times, which i don't mind at all except when he goes overboard and looks like an idiot (Screaming at Stump mic).

[kro55]

@JSRAW it’s true that the sandpaper controversy and the quitting of Tim Paine has led the Australia side to change how they behave on the pitch, but I feel that sooner or later they’ll be back to their old ways i.e. win at any cost mentality. Furthermore after being removed as the captain of India, I don’t think Virat has shown much aggression for team India, and I wonder will we see a new calm Virat in the ODI format when the new ODI series begins?.

IMO After losing captaincy camera stopped following him religiously, hence we don't see much of him going gaga over every delivery. So i would argue that nothing has changed in Kohli's attitude. He's still passionate and aggressive cricketer on the field most of the times, which i don't mind at all except when he goes overboard and looks like an idiot (Screaming at Stump mic).

I think Australia is going to remember the incident that took place and they will keep the racism in their mind and not express that in the field. but it is Australia we are talking about and I am not sure how long they are going to be good in the field and behave like a good human being.

About Virat Kohli I really don't think too much has changed because he is aggressive by nature and that is not going to change just overnight. I think we are probably watching a calmer  Virat Kohli because previously he was the captain of the Indian team and that must have meant a  position of real power to him, that's why probably he thought that he could do almost anything he wanted.

Agreed. A beamer directed towards the batsmen can be very dangerous. And trust me, most of the fast bowlers around the world are capable of doing that, but keeping the spirit of cricket in mind they refrain from doing so. If they need to intimidate the batsmen, then they would bowl a few toecrushers and bouncers. But those bowlers who are incapable of doing this, go the illegal route of bowling beamers. Actually I wasn't shocked by Saini's behavior. I was more shocked with the response from Kohli, who encouraged this sort of behavior rather than reprimanding the bowler. In any other league, these two would have been handed down suspension for a few matches. Anyway, Saini's career is more or less finished.

Well when we are talking about his career, I am actually surprised that this dude is almost 30 years old. on television, he looks like he is in his early twenties. After that I became a lot more surprised because someone who is almost 30 years old, should be a lot more calm-headed, and should act like a mature person a lot more. After that, I become a lot more surprised because it is already dumb enough to just throw your ball on the batsman's head, and after that the dumbest part is you get raised by your captain. I am really lost in words.

[coinism]

Well when we are talking about his career, I am actually surprised that this dude is almost 30 years old. on television, he looks like he is in his early twenties. After that I became a lot more surprised because someone who is almost 30 years old, should be a lot more calm-headed, and should act like a mature person a lot more. After that, I become a lot more surprised because it is already dumb enough to just throw your ball on the batsman's head, and after that the dumbest part is you get raised by your captain. I am really lost in words.

Karma strikes back and kohli is paying price of all his acts in the form of bad performance. But even kohli is removed from cricket, he has played enough cricket to live a happy life. Players like Navdeep Saini need to be careful as he has just played 7 to 8 matches for India. He shouldn't try to copy sohaib at such early part of his career.

[JSRAW]

@JSRAW it’s true that the sandpaper controversy and the quitting of Tim Paine has led the Australia side to change how they behave on the pitch, but I feel that sooner or later they’ll be back to their old ways i.e. win at any cost mentality. Furthermore after being removed as the captain of India, I don’t think Virat has shown much aggression for team India, and I wonder will we see a new calm Virat in the ODI format when the new ODI series begins?.

IMO After losing captaincy camera stopped following him religiously, hence we don't see much of him going gaga over every delivery. So i would argue that nothing has changed in Kohli's attitude. He's still passionate and aggressive cricketer on the field most of the times, which i don't mind at all except when he goes overboard and looks like an idiot (Screaming at Stump mic).

I think Australia is going to remember the incident that took place and they will keep the racism in their mind and not express that in the field. but it is Australia we are talking about and I am not sure how long they are going to be good in the field and behave like a good human being.

About Virat Kohli I really don't think too much has changed because he is aggressive by nature and that is not going to change just overnight. I think we are probably watching a calmer  Virat Kohli because previously he was the captain of the Indian team and that must have meant a  position of real power to him, that's why probably he thought that he could do almost anything he wanted.

Would like to add one more thing which i forgot to add in my reply. Virat is indeed aggressive on the field but off the field he's very soft spoken and down to earth person, especially after marriage his off field personality took drastic U turn.

Personally i won't mind if Australia (or any team) goes back into sledging-mode, as far as whatever happens on the field, stays on the field with no virtue signalling (Mostly SENA countries problem). Heated arguments are welcome but no street fights.

[kro55]

Would like to add one more thing which i forgot to add in my reply. Virat is indeed aggressive on the field but off the field he's very soft spoken and down to earth person, especially after marriage his off field personality took drastic U turn.

Personally i won't mind if Australia (or any team) goes back into sledging-mode, as far as whatever happens on the field, stays on the field with no virtue signalling (Mostly SENA countries problem). Heated arguments are welcome but no street fights.

Actually, I don't like players who cannot control their emotions on the field because if you cannot control your emotion on the field how are you supposed to keep a calm head when things are not going well for you? I mean a little expression of emotion is all right but you cannot be done enough to scream on the stumps mic.

And I don't want anyone to sledge in cricket because I believe it is a respected sport and all the players should be treated with respect by their opponent.

[YinShuiSiYuan]

Actually, I don't like players who cannot control their emotions on the field because if you cannot control your emotion on the field how are you supposed to keep a calm head when things are not going well for you? I mean a little expression of emotion is all right but you cannot be done enough to scream on the stumps mic.

And I don't want anyone to sledge in cricket because I believe it is a respected sport and all the players should be treated with respect by their opponent.

Why players of Pakistan, Srilanka, West Indies don't sledge? Why only players from big 3 are good in sledging? The reason is very obvious, big 3 players have confidence that ICC won't take any action against them. Aussies and now Indians take pride in sledging, I bet if same is done by a player of Pakistan, Srilanka or other small board icc must have taken strong action.

[Sithara007]

Actually, I don't like players who cannot control their emotions on the field because if you cannot control your emotion on the field how are you supposed to keep a calm head when things are not going well for you? I mean a little expression of emotion is all right but you cannot be done enough to scream on the stumps mic.

And I don't want anyone to sledge in cricket because I believe it is a respected sport and all the players should be treated with respect by their opponent.

Well.. it is hard to define the limit. Cricket is known as the gentleman's game, but IMO there is nothing wrong in showing off emotions in a respectful way. Look at other sports such as football and basketball. You will find such players there as well. Such behavior can be tolerated, up to a limit. And the match referee should decide up to which level sledging can be tolerated. If it goes beyond this limit, then strict punishment should be handed out, such as suspension from a few matches (seizure of match fees doesn't make any difference).