[Awesome Miner] - Powerful Windows GUI to manage and monitor up to 200000 miners

[cashen]

having an issue adding coins in the balance.

would it be easier if we just put in the "get balance" address?

"http://explorer.signatum.io/ext/getaddress/"

Awesome Miner only supports a number of Block Explorer API, but not that one. The problem is that these API's can be very different, making it almost impossible for Awesome Miner to support all.

A large number of coins are supported via this one: https://chainz.cryptoid.info/
However, Signatum is not in that list.

Given the fact that Signatum is quite popular, I will consider adding specific support for it. Thanks for your feedback on this.

Is the only API function for the balance getbalance? If so, why not just make it so we input the specific api url for getbalance

I'm going to want VIVO too. http://vivo.explorerz.top:3003/

[1714834286]

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[puwaha]

When trying to do profit mining It is always mining lbry and I dont know why as thats not the most profitable. I set it up for zpool and also did bench marking. Could you help me with this?

Which profit mining services do you have enabled?  (Nicehash, zpool, Miningpoolhub, Miningrigrentals, or custom pool groups?)

There are two methods that AM uses to determine profitability... on the Coins tab, this is the whattomine.com list of profitability based on your benchmarked hashing rates.  Those rates need to be set in a profit profile, and applied to your profit switching miner.  If you aren't mining pools directly, then using the Coins tab to determine "what is most profitable" will not always be correct.

The second method is if you have Nicehash, zpool, miningpoolhub and miningrigrentals enabled in profit switching, then AM will also use those services (profit can be found on the Online Services tab) in addition to the Coins tab to determine which is the most profitable.

If Zpool says mining lbry is more profitable on it's service (Online Services tab) than what you see on whattomine.com (Coins tab) then AM will use Zpool's profit information and point your rigs to it.

That makes sense thank you so much. So basically If I wanted to use the coins tab I would need to have separate pools for all the different coins and separate wallets? What is typically the best to do for most profit? Im using zpool now but is there possibly a better pool or method?

Yes, if you want to use the coins tab, you would put your individual pools in a Pool Group, and then select the Pool Group on the Profit Switching tab after checking the Custom Pools option.  As for separate wallets, it really depends on the pool.  Some pools require you to mine to an external wallet, and many times you can just use an exchange wallet.  Then some pools, like say Suprnova.cc, collect the coins for you until you are ready to cash out to an external wallet or exchange.

What is best to do for most profit?  That really depends on your priorities.  If you want to exchange for BTC right away, then using Nicehash, zpool, or MPH with the auto convert turned on will just go ahead and convert your mined alt coins to BTC or another coin of your choosing.  It's my personal belief that you will not get the "most profit" doing it this way unless you have a ton of hashrate, and even then, I've written reasons why you may still miss out on the "most profit" earlier in this thread.  You don't have to convert just to BTC, you can do other coins.
 In MPH, you have to tell it what to convert to on the website, and zpool you have to use the -p coin=XXX custom command line option.  You'd have to apply this at the Managed Software options, but it could do funny things if you switch between different Online Services... so it's probably best to stick with conversion to BTC at zpool, but it's doable with Awesome Miner.

If you are not interested in converting directly to BTC right away, you can use MPH and leave the auto convert turned off on their website.  This way you will accumulate a lot of interesting coins that are the "most profitable" from time to time.  If you keep feeding those coins to an exchange like Bittrex, they have an instant sell feature in their Labs section where you can probably sell for slightly more profit than letting MPH do it for you.  The reason being is that MPH waits until you and the pool has enough coins to send to an exchange, where you have no control over the timing, and the exchange may not be as favorable as you automating it going to an exchange and letting the exchange do it for you.

And lastly, you could just mine at MPH or a custom Pool Group and just accumulate interesting coins that are the "most profitable" from time to time, and then exchange them whenever you want.  If you like to "hold" coins, this is the best way.  For instance, DGB could be "most profitable" for about 30 minutes, and then it may not be again for hours or days.  But you will have DGB that you can play with at the exchanges to setup sell orders at the profit level you want.  If DGB hits that level again you already have the sell order waiting at the exchange.  If it doesn't... well you are holding and then a week, month, or years later decide what to do with those coins.

[patrike]

having an issue adding coins in the balance.

would it be easier if we just put in the "get balance" address?

"http://explorer.signatum.io/ext/getaddress/"

Awesome Miner only supports a number of Block Explorer API, but not that one. The problem is that these API's can be very different, making it almost impossible for Awesome Miner to support all.

A large number of coins are supported via this one: https://chainz.cryptoid.info/
However, Signatum is not in that list.

Given the fact that Signatum is quite popular, I will consider adding specific support for it. Thanks for your feedback on this.

Is the only API function for the balance getbalance? If so, why not just make it so we input the specific api url for getbalance

I'm going to want VIVO too. http://vivo.explorerz.top:3003/

Hi,
The format of the responses from all these Block Explorers are different, so it's not as easy as just make a request to them.

I've been thinking of developing some way of expressing how Awesome Miner should process these results to give the user full flexibility to point to any Block Explorer and simply instruct Awesome Miner where in the result the actual balance can be found, but it will be a little complex and intended mainly for the power users.

[VicePrez]

Hey Patrike!

Any way of splitting the revenue streams for each individual coin when dual mining using Claymore's Miner?

Example:

Per day (ETH + DCR): $12 ($10 + $2)
Per month (ETH + DCR): $360 ($300 + $60)

Would be cool visualizing profitability for each coin.

[bitfztlk]

Hi,

I am currently using mpsw option for claymore and I dont see a way to enter password for remote management of claymore.

I reviewed the docs/faq on the awesome miner site, but couldnt see a way to get that working.

Probably something in this thread but tbh I havent read all the pages

Thanks,

[puwaha]

Hi,

I am currently using mpsw option for claymore and I dont see a way to enter password for remote management of claymore.

I reviewed the docs/faq on the awesome miner site, but couldnt see a way to get that working.

Probably something in this thread but tbh I havent read all the pages

Thanks,

You'd want to add options like this as a custom command line option in the managed software for Claymore.

[insaniak]

When trying to do profit mining It is always mining lbry and I dont know why as thats not the most profitable. I set it up for zpool and also did bench marking. Could you help me with this?

Which profit mining services do you have enabled?  (Nicehash, zpool, Miningpoolhub, Miningrigrentals, or custom pool groups?)

There are two methods that AM uses to determine profitability... on the Coins tab, this is the whattomine.com list of profitability based on your benchmarked hashing rates.  Those rates need to be set in a profit profile, and applied to your profit switching miner.  If you aren't mining pools directly, then using the Coins tab to determine "what is most profitable" will not always be correct.

The second method is if you have Nicehash, zpool, miningpoolhub and miningrigrentals enabled in profit switching, then AM will also use those services (profit can be found on the Online Services tab) in addition to the Coins tab to determine which is the most profitable.

If Zpool says mining lbry is more profitable on it's service (Online Services tab) than what you see on whattomine.com (Coins tab) then AM will use Zpool's profit information and point your rigs to it.

That makes sense thank you so much. So basically If I wanted to use the coins tab I would need to have separate pools for all the different coins and separate wallets? What is typically the best to do for most profit? Im using zpool now but is there possibly a better pool or method?

Yes, if you want to use the coins tab, you would put your individual pools in a Pool Group, and then select the Pool Group on the Profit Switching tab after checking the Custom Pools option.  As for separate wallets, it really depends on the pool.  Some pools require you to mine to an external wallet, and many times you can just use an exchange wallet.  Then some pools, like say Suprnova.cc, collect the coins for you until you are ready to cash out to an external wallet or exchange.

What is best to do for most profit?  That really depends on your priorities.  If you want to exchange for BTC right away, then using Nicehash, zpool, or MPH with the auto convert turned on will just go ahead and convert your mined alt coins to BTC or another coin of your choosing.  It's my personal belief that you will not get the "most profit" doing it this way unless you have a ton of hashrate, and even then, I've written reasons why you may still miss out on the "most profit" earlier in this thread.  You don't have to convert just to BTC, you can do other coins.
 In MPH, you have to tell it what to convert to on the website, and zpool you have to use the -p coin=XXX custom command line option.  You'd have to apply this at the Managed Software options, but it could do funny things if you switch between different Online Services... so it's probably best to stick with conversion to BTC at zpool, but it's doable with Awesome Miner.

If you are not interested in converting directly to BTC right away, you can use MPH and leave the auto convert turned off on their website.  This way you will accumulate a lot of interesting coins that are the "most profitable" from time to time.  If you keep feeding those coins to an exchange like Bittrex, they have an instant sell feature in their Labs section where you can probably sell for slightly more profit than letting MPH do it for you.  The reason being is that MPH waits until you and the pool has enough coins to send to an exchange, where you have no control over the timing, and the exchange may not be as favorable as you automating it going to an exchange and letting the exchange do it for you.

And lastly, you could just mine at MPH or a custom Pool Group and just accumulate interesting coins that are the "most profitable" from time to time, and then exchange them whenever you want.  If you like to "hold" coins, this is the best way.  For instance, DGB could be "most profitable" for about 30 minutes, and then it may not be again for hours or days.  But you will have DGB that you can play with at the exchanges to setup sell orders at the profit level you want.  If DGB hits that level again you already have the sell order waiting at the exchange.  If it doesn't... well you are holding and then a week, month, or years later decide what to do with those coins.

Thank you for the detailed reply. I do not mind having it convert to BTC or  ETH as I can always sell that later. Now based of what youve said it seems easier to use zpool or mph to do this. I also tried using MPH and I still have coins sitting there not being credited from auto exchange.Is there a way I can have payouts automatically sent to my bittrex account and sold without having to transfer them manually? Ive used bittrex autosell feature before and it seems pretty great. Also what do you think th emost profitable way is? As of right now I got Zpool working great and it is switching for me and everything which is nice. All in all i just want to make sure im getting the most profiablility as I can out of this.

[Kronny]

Hi, is there any solution about Ewbf 0sol?
the miner does not restart with this error 

[Blogster]

hey,
great programm so far but i think then Skein Hub on MPH isnt working correctly.
My Rig is mining Skein atm which is currently the most profitable with 16 USD a day on MPH for my rig.
In the Skein algo on MPH are 2 coins.
Myriadcoin-Skein currently @ 0.14842    profit
Digibyte-Skein currently @ 0.06922   profit
so it calculates that when i mine the myriadcoin version i get 16 dollars a day
But now the Problem.
Everytime when it swtiches to skein it ONLY mines digibyte-skein but calculates the profit for mining myriadcoin.
I figured that out caus i check the hashrate 0 Hashrate on myriadcoin and 2240 MHS on Digibyte which is way less profitable of course.
Anway to fix that or have i to disable skein till this is fixed somehow?

thx!

[bitfztlk]

Hi,

I am currently using mpsw option for claymore and I dont see a way to enter password for remote management of claymore.

I reviewed the docs/faq on the awesome miner site, but couldnt see a way to get that working.

Probably something in this thread but tbh I havent read all the pages

Thanks,

You'd want to add options like this as a custom command line option in the managed software for Claymore.

Of course I have it like this configured in the Claymore command line.  Problem is how do I get the Awesome Miner app to connect to the below external miner with the PASSWORD set in -mpsw?
Ethdcrminer64 -epool eth-us-east1.nanopool.org:9999 -ewal ETHWALLET -mpsw PASSWORD -mport PORT -epsw x -mode 1 -ftime 10

[polylogic]

Hi,

I am currently using mpsw option for claymore and I dont see a way to enter password for remote management of claymore.

I reviewed the docs/faq on the awesome miner site, but couldnt see a way to get that working.

Probably something in this thread but tbh I havent read all the pages

Thanks,

You'd want to add options like this as a custom command line option in the managed software for Claymore.

Of course I have it like this configured in the Claymore command line.  Problem is how do I get the Awesome Miner app to connect to the below external miner with the PASSWORD set in -mpsw?
Ethdcrminer64 -epool eth-us-east1.nanopool.org:9999 -ewal ETHWALLET -mpsw PASSWORD -mport PORT -epsw x -mode 1 -ftime 10

i think you Need to use a managed miner or remove the pw.


i have some suggestions for the coin tab:

-more stats like:
-what hashrate number is used to calculate on that algo (my hashrate)
-how much of that currency am i goin to earn? currently i only see btc and usd
-maybe let us add or remove stats from view.


also the coin tab Shows very different results than whattomine. which one should i believe now?

[Rodrigo8]

For some reason only the sgminer miner can not see my AMD rx580 gpus, even though AM has mapped them. Afterburner and Afterburner Server running.
This problem does not happen with Clamore's. When I try to do benchmarking Clarmore gives me the results but the sgminer is closed as soon as it is opened by not identifying my gpus.

I've already reinstalled both the remote agent and the AM, I tried to install new miners, I tried to send a new mining engine

Thanks

Diagnostics

Code:

Starting Diagnostics 
Starting Mining Software
Setting up Miner Engine. Instance: 1
Engine Type: SgMiner, Auto Download: True, EnginePath: , Subtype: Disabled, CustomExecutable: 
Added rule for: C:\Users\RIG2\AppData\Roaming\AwesomeMinerService\sgminer-5.6.1-nicehash-51-windows-i386_1\sgminer.exe
C:\Users\RIG2\AppData\Roaming\AwesomeMinerService\sgminer-5.6.1-nicehash-51-windows-i386_1\sgminer.exe --config awesome.conf --text-only   (WindowMode: ConsoleFormat, EngineType: SgMiner)
Configuration: 
{
  "pools": [],
  "api-port": "4028",
  "failover-only": true,
  "api-listen": true,
  "api-allow": "W:127.0.0.1/32",
  "expiry": "120",
  "log": "5",
  "queue": "1",
  "scan-time": "60",
  "temp-hysteresis": "3"
}
> [03:12:41] Started sgminer 5.6.1-nicehash-51
> [03:12:41] * using Jansson 2.7
> [03:12:41] Loaded configuration file awesome.conf
Mining Engine Process started, PID: 7440

====================================================================================================
> [03:12:42] CL Platform vendor: Intel(R) Corporation
> [03:12:42] CL Platform name: Intel(R) OpenCL
> [03:12:42] CL Platform version: OpenCL 2.1 
> [03:12:42] Error -1: Getting Device IDs (num)
> [03:12:42] clDevicesNum returned error, no GPUs usable
> [03:12:42] Default Devices = all
> [03:12:42] set_devices(all)
> [03:12:42] All devices disabled, cannot mine!
> [03:12:41] Started sgminer 5.6.1-nicehash-51                    
> [03:12:41] * using Jansson 2.7                    
> [03:12:41] Loaded configuration file awesome.conf                    
> [03:12:42] clDevicesNum returned error, no GPUs usable                    
> [03:12:42] All devices disabled, cannot mine!                    

====================================================================================================
Unexpected exit of mining software. Possible cause: Incorrect configuration
Diagnostics completed


Starting Diagnostics 
Starting Mining Software
Setting up Miner Engine. Instance: 1
Engine Type: SgMiner, Auto Download: False, EnginePath: C:\Users\RIG2\Desktop\sgminer-5.5.5-gm-nicehash-8-windows-amd64\sgminer.exe, Subtype: Disabled, CustomExecutable: 
Added rule for: C:\Users\RIG2\Desktop\sgminer-5.5.5-gm-nicehash-8-windows-amd64\sgminer.exe
C:\Users\RIG2\Desktop\sgminer-5.5.5-gm-nicehash-8-windows-amd64\sgminer.exe --config awesome.conf --text-only   (WindowMode: ConsoleFormat, EngineType: SgMiner)
Configuration: 
{
  "pools": [
    {
      "name": "",
      "nfactor": "10",
      "algorithm": "",
      "url": "cryptonight.usa.nicehash.com:3355",
      "user": "xxxxxxxxxxxxXNCQQ7Nz9vrxsZwAn7bvRSPto",
      "pass": "x"
    }
  ],
  "api-port": "4028",
  "failover-only": true,
  "api-listen": true,
  "api-allow": "W:127.0.0.1/32",
  "expiry": "120",
  "log": "5",
  "queue": "1",
  "scan-time": "60",
  "temp-hysteresis": "3"
}
> [03:21:58] Global quota greatest common denominator set to 1
> [03:21:58] Setting pool 0 N-factor to 10
> [03:21:58] Setting pool 0 name to 
> [03:21:58] Setting pool 0 algorithm to 
> [03:21:58] Algorithm  not found, using ckolivas.
> [03:21:58] Started sgminer 5.5.5-gm-nicehash-8
> [03:21:58] * using Jansson 2.7
> [03:21:58] Loaded configuration file awesome.conf
Mining Engine Process started, PID: 6800

====================================================================================================
> [03:21:59] CL Platform vendor: Intel(R) Corporation
> [03:21:59] CL Platform name: Intel(R) OpenCL
> [03:21:59] CL Platform version: OpenCL 2.1 
> [03:21:59] Error -1: Getting Device IDs (num)
> [03:21:59] clDevicesNum returned error, no GPUs usable
> [03:21:59] Default Devices = all
> [03:21:59] set_devices(all)
> [03:21:59] Loading settings from default_profile for pool 0
> [03:21:59] Pool 0 Algorithm set to "ckolivas"
> [03:21:59] Pool 0 devices set to "all"
> [03:21:59] Pool 0 lookup gap set to "(null)"
> [03:21:59] Pool 0 Intensity set to "8"
> [03:21:59] Pool 0 Thread Concurrency set to "(null)"
> [03:21:59] Pool 0 GPU Clock set to "(null)"
> [03:21:59] Pool 0 GPU Memory clock set to "(null)"
> [03:21:59] Pool 0 GPU Threads set to "(null)"
> [03:21:59] Pool 0 GPU Fan set to "(null)"
> [03:21:59] Pool 0 GPU Powertune set to "(null)"
> [03:21:59] Pool 0 GPU Vddc set to "(null)"
> [03:21:59] Pool 0 Shaders set to "(null)"
> [03:21:59] Pool 0 Worksize set to "(null)"
> [03:21:59] All devices disabled, cannot mine!
> [03:21:58] Algorithm  not found, using ckolivas.                    
> [03:21:58] Started sgminer 5.5.5-gm-nicehash-8                    
> [03:21:58] * using Jansson 2.7                    
> [03:21:58] Loaded configuration file awesome.conf                    
> [03:21:59] clDevicesNum returned error, no GPUs usable                    
> [03:21:59] All devices disabled, cannot mine!                    

====================================================================================================
Unexpected exit of mining software. Possible cause: Incorrect configuration
Diagnostics completed

[patrike]

Hey Patrike!

Any way of splitting the revenue streams for each individual coin when dual mining using Claymore's Miner?

Example:

Per day (ETH + DCR): $12 ($10 + $2)
Per month (ETH + DCR): $360 ($300 + $60)

Would be cool visualizing profitability for each coin.

Hi!
Thanks for the suggestion. I agree that this would make sense

[patrike]

Hi, is there any solution about Ewbf 0sol?
the miner does not restart with this error 

What kind of problem is that? Are other mining software working on you system? Can you please share more details.

[patrike]

hey,
great programm so far but i think then Skein Hub on MPH isnt working correctly.
My Rig is mining Skein atm which is currently the most profitable with 16 USD a day on MPH for my rig.
In the Skein algo on MPH are 2 coins.
Myriadcoin-Skein currently @ 0.14842    profit
Digibyte-Skein currently @ 0.06922   profit
so it calculates that when i mine the myriadcoin version i get 16 dollars a day
But now the Problem.
Everytime when it swtiches to skein it ONLY mines digibyte-skein but calculates the profit for mining myriadcoin.
I figured that out caus i check the hashrate 0 Hashrate on myriadcoin and 2240 MHS on Digibyte which is way less profitable of course.
Anway to fix that or have i to disable skein till this is fixed somehow?

thx!

Is this with the Awesome Miner profit switcher, or a Managed Miner where you simply point to a specific MPH pool? If it's a specific MPH pool, please let me know the full URL incl. port number.
If it's a multi-coin pool at MPH, Awesome Miner will never know which coin you are mining or what kind of coins MPH switches between. Instead Awesome Miner displays the profit information from MPH for this scenario and that should be correct.

[patrike]

Hi,

I am currently using mpsw option for claymore and I dont see a way to enter password for remote management of claymore.

I reviewed the docs/faq on the awesome miner site, but couldnt see a way to get that working.

Probably something in this thread but tbh I havent read all the pages

Thanks,

You'd want to add options like this as a custom command line option in the managed software for Claymore.

Of course I have it like this configured in the Claymore command line.  Problem is how do I get the Awesome Miner app to connect to the below external miner with the PASSWORD set in -mpsw?
Ethdcrminer64 -epool eth-us-east1.nanopool.org:9999 -ewal ETHWALLET -mpsw PASSWORD -mport PORT -epsw x -mode 1 -ftime 10

That kind of Claymore passwords are not yet supported by Awesome Miner.

[patrike]

i have some suggestions for the coin tab:

-more stats like:
-what hashrate number is used to calculate on that algo (my hashrate)
-how much of that currency am i goin to earn? currently i only see btc and usd
-maybe let us add or remove stats from view.


also the coin tab Shows very different results than whattomine. which one should i believe now?

Thanks for your feedback.

WhatToMine uses 24h profitability by default, but can be changed to use current. Awesome Miner uses current profitability by default, by can be changed to use 24h (Options dialog, Statistics section). This is why what you see on the Coins tab may not be identical with WhatToMine unless you align the configuration.

[puwaha]

Thank you for the detailed reply. I do not mind having it convert to BTC or  ETH as I can always sell that later. Now based of what youve said it seems easier to use zpool or mph to do this. I also tried using MPH and I still have coins sitting there not being credited from auto exchange.Is there a way I can have payouts automatically sent to my bittrex account and sold without having to transfer them manually? Ive used bittrex autosell feature before and it seems pretty great. Also what do you think th emost profitable way is? As of right now I got Zpool working great and it is switching for me and everything which is nice. All in all i just want to make sure im getting the most profiablility as I can out of this.

Yes, you just set your auto payout threshold to some number that you are comfortable with, and put in your Bittrex wallet address for that coin.  You do have to do it on all the coins that you will be mining.  Then on Bittrex setup the auto sell feature for those coins that you want it to convert directly to BTC.

I did say "some number you are comfortable with" because you are going to lose a little bit in the fee that MPH charges.  I'm ok with 1%, so if the transaction fee on MPH is 0.01, with a minimum of 1.0 to process... then I set the auto payout threshold to 1.01.  That way as soon as I've mined 1.01 of that coin, I'll get 1.0 sent immediately to Bittrex, which immediately sells it.  I do this to make sure I get the coins to Bittrex as fast as possible so that the coin is still "hot" on the exchange.  If you wait until you have a large number of coins, the coin my not be hot anymore and you wont get as much profit.

As I've said before, if you let MPH do the auto convert to BTC, they wait until you and everyone else has accumulated enough coins to make it worth MPH's while... by then the coin is probably not "hot" anymore and you are selling on the dips.

[The Cryptophilanthropist]

Looking for a way to auto restart miners when accepted submissions is longer than 8 minutes.

This need is due to a problem with some of the yiimp pools I mine on, the miners don't drop, they hash

but no submit, if restarted all is ok. Also seems related to a particular coin or it's algo possibly.

Can anyone tell me how to do this if it is a feature? Thanks  (running Enterprise Edition)

[insaniak]

Thank you for the detailed reply. I do not mind having it convert to BTC or  ETH as I can always sell that later. Now based of what youve said it seems easier to use zpool or mph to do this. I also tried using MPH and I still have coins sitting there not being credited from auto exchange.Is there a way I can have payouts automatically sent to my bittrex account and sold without having to transfer them manually? Ive used bittrex autosell feature before and it seems pretty great. Also what do you think th emost profitable way is? As of right now I got Zpool working great and it is switching for me and everything which is nice. All in all i just want to make sure im getting the most profiablility as I can out of this.

Yes, you just set your auto payout threshold to some number that you are comfortable with, and put in your Bittrex wallet address for that coin.  You do have to do it on all the coins that you will be mining.  Then on Bittrex setup the auto sell feature for those coins that you want it to convert directly to BTC.

I did say "some number you are comfortable with" because you are going to lose a little bit in the fee that MPH charges.  I'm ok with 1%, so if the transaction fee on MPH is 0.01, with a minimum of 1.0 to process... then I set the auto payout threshold to 1.01.  That way as soon as I've mined 1.01 of that coin, I'll get 1.0 sent immediately to Bittrex, which immediately sells it.  I do this to make sure I get the coins to Bittrex as fast as possible so that the coin is still "hot" on the exchange.  If you wait until you have a large number of coins, the coin my not be hot anymore and you wont get as much profit.

As I've said before, if you let MPH do the auto convert to BTC, they wait until you and everyone else has accumulated enough coins to make it worth MPH's while... by then the coin is probably not "hot" anymore and you are selling on the dips.

Thank you I'll give that a shot. Also is there a way I could have one rig mine at mph and another on zpool? I want to try and compare them.