Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.

[Erdogan]

I just wanted you to say "no, I don't want to bet against the block size limit increasing within the next year (since it likely will)"  

Sorry, this season of All My Bitcoins is about the "best" block size.

Next year, XT is the villain and there is briefly some FUD about whether it or QT is the "real" Bitcoin.

/spoilers

What is the real bitcoin will be clear after just a few blocks, maybe 20.

Its obvious he doesn't want to bet because he knows he will loose.  Good job Peter.

Here is an idea for the first 1.1M block to dip the toe in the cold water: Use one of the 1 transactions blocks, just fill it with some poetry, the natural law, or some absurd statements from the central bankers or something. It might cost the miner 25 coins, but at least he saves the work to arrange a transaction list.

[iCEBREAKER]

Next year, XT is the villain and there is briefly some FUD about whether it or QT is the "real" Bitcoin.

What is the real bitcoin will be clear after just a few blocks, maybe 20.

You are entitled to your opinion.  

[TPTB_need_war]

Next year, XT is the villain and there is briefly some FUD about whether it or QT is the "real" Bitcoin.

What is the real bitcoin will be clear after just a few blocks, maybe 20.

You are entitled to your opinion.  

Remember everything you wrote in the Mad Max thread iCe. I will be calling you out soon on it when you are proven wrong in spades.

I warned you my time was coming and I would not be wrong.

[cypherdoc]

I just wanted you to say "no, I don't want to bet against the block size limit increasing within the next year (since it likely will)"  

Sorry, this season of All My Bitcoins is about the "best" block size.

Next year, XT is the villain and there is briefly some FUD about whether it or QT is the "real" Bitcoin.

/spoilers

What is the real bitcoin will be clear after just a few blocks, maybe 20.

Its obvious he doesn't want to bet because he knows he will loose.  Good job Peter.

iCEBlow is all Blow and no iCE 

[Zarathustra]

the congestion really has only just begun.  if it persists, yes, ppl will start to stop using Bitcoin.  the exit starts slowly at first and then will morph into a stampede; especially if the price starts plunging.  the mempool is a problem that does have to be fixed so that ordinary users can start getting their tx's through.  they won't be as patient as some of us here.

Hi doc.  I can't help but notice with each passing day you sound more like a Buttcoiner.

No, with each passing day you sound more like a stalker. You are not able to attract people on your own thread.

[iCEBREAKER]

I just wanted you to say "no, I don't want to bet against the block size limit increasing within the next year (since it likely will)"  

Sorry, this season of All My Bitcoins is about the "best" block size.

Next year, XT is the villain and there is briefly some FUD about whether it or QT is the "real" Bitcoin.

/spoilers

What is the real bitcoin will be clear after just a few blocks, maybe 20.

Its obvious he doesn't want to bet because he knows he will loose.  Good job Peter.

It's obvious the terms of the bet are ambiguous (Core vs XT will both claim to be the "real" Bitcoin), and I explained why the limit might be changed for some good reason (fiat dies and Sidechains suddenly rule the world), but not for the controversial, exaggerated reasons given at present.

[TPTB_need_war]

the congestion really has only just begun.  if it persists, yes, ppl will start to stop using Bitcoin.  the exit starts slowly at first and then will morph into a stampede; especially if the price starts plunging.  the mempool is a problem that does have to be fixed so that ordinary users can start getting their tx's through.  they won't be as patient as some of us here.

Hi doc.  I can't help but notice with each passing day you sound more like a Buttcoiner.

No, with each passing day you sound more like a stalker. You are not able to attract people on your own thread.

Is that all that Bitcoin has become is a contest of who can mobilize male boredom?

Armchair masturbation 24 x 7 is very productive.

Note I will be deleting these noise posts.

[cypherdoc]

iCEBlow is all Blow and no iCE  

Sounds like you are an expert on both. 

BOO!!!

[iCEBREAKER]

the congestion really has only just begun.  if it persists, yes, ppl will start to stop using Bitcoin.  the exit starts slowly at first and then will morph into a stampede; especially if the price starts plunging.  the mempool is a problem that does have to be fixed so that ordinary users can start getting their tx's through.  they won't be as patient as some of us here.

Hi doc.  I can't help but notice with each passing day you sound more like a Buttcoiner.

No, with each passing day you sound more like a stalker. You are not able to attract people on your own thread.

And last week you were saying how much you like my posts bumping your thread to the top.  Are you allergic to logical consistency or what?

No one is forcing you to read my posts, this thread, or this forum.  You are free to use the Ignore button, or perhaps go play some golf.

This thread isn't moderated, but you may create one that is if you don't want to be pestered by people noting you sound exactly like a Buttcoiner, except say "Cripplecoin" instead.

[cypherdoc]

the congestion really has only just begun.  if it persists, yes, ppl will start to stop using Bitcoin.  the exit starts slowly at first and then will morph into a stampede; especially if the price starts plunging.  the mempool is a problem that does have to be fixed so that ordinary users can start getting their tx's through.  they won't be as patient as some of us here.

Hi doc.  I can't help but notice with each passing day you sound more like a Buttcoiner.

No, with each passing day you sound more like a stalker. You are not able to attract people on your own thread.

And last week you were saying how much you like my posts bumping your thread to the top.  Are you allergic to logical consistency or what?

No one is forcing you to read my posts, this thread, or this forum.  You are free to use the Ignore button, or perhaps go play some golf.

This thread isn't moderated, but you may create one that is if you don't want to be pestered by people noting you sound exactly like a Buttcoiner, except say "Cripplecoin" instead.

your knee jerk mouthy masturbation stops you from even identifying who you're talking to.  you just assume any criticism comes from me while being unable to understand that most ppl around here think you're a thug aka Monero Pimp.  you're here to try and bring me down for the Cripplecoiners.  ain't gonna happen.

go blow more iCE, iCEBlow.

[iCEBREAKER]

the congestion really has only just begun.  if it persists, yes, ppl will start to stop using Bitcoin.  the exit starts slowly at first and then will morph into a stampede; especially if the price starts plunging.  the mempool is a problem that does have to be fixed so that ordinary users can start getting their tx's through.  they won't be as patient as some of us here.

Hi doc.  I can't help but notice with each passing day you sound more like a Buttcoiner.

No, with each passing day you sound more like a stalker. You are not able to attract people on your own thread.

And last week you were saying how much you like my posts bumping your thread to the top.  Are you allergic to logical consistency or what?

No one is forcing you to read my posts, this thread, or this forum.  You are free to use the Ignore button, or perhaps go play some golf.

This thread isn't moderated, but you may create one that is if you don't want to be pestered by people noting you sound exactly like a Buttcoiner, except say "Cripplecoin" instead.

your knee jerk mouthy masturbation stops you from even identifying who you're talking to.  you just assume any criticism comes from me while being unable to understand that most ppl around here think you're a thug aka Monero Pimp.  you're here to try and bring me down for the Cripplecoiners.  ain't gonna happen.

go blow more iCE, iCEBlow.

LOL, he sounded exactly like you!  Are you twins?   

[Peter R]

It's obvious the terms of the bet are ambiguous (Core vs XT will both claim to be the "real" Bitcoin)...

It's not ambiguous at all.  I win the bet if, by this time next year, a block larger than 1 MB exists on the longest proof-of-work chain whether that's XT, Core or something else.  You win the bet otherwise.

Care to make a wager, iCEBREAKER?  1 BTC that the longest proof-of-work chain contains a block larger than 1 MB by this time next year (10-Jul-2016).  Escrowed by someone in this thread (2-of-3 multisig), of course.

[thezerg]

follow this conversation and you'll realize who and what we're having to deal with:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3agk61/ultimate_bitcoin_stress_test_monday_june_22nd/cscgdwy

 

What's wrong here?

block size decrease.  really?

He's just confused.  He seems to want some kind of centralized control:

I think it's time for miners to drop their max block size ASAP. Or maybe a better solution will be to simply up the min fees.

But then he (correctly) suggests that the miners should make these decisions.

Yes, that's why Bitcoin has an intelligent/human component: the miners. Miners are supposed to make decisions to help filter the spam and low priority traffic, so the real transactions aren't affected. The simplest way to do this is to increase the minimum transaction fee.

Well then I guess by his own argument the miners are not finding any issue with the network as it is running today.  Its not the MINERS that have an issue (or they WOULD change their block size), its Luke jr.

(same would happen if block size got "released" to 20 or 100 MB -- not that I'm advocating for this, I'm advocating for compromise -- the miners simply would not mine gargantuan blocks.  Except for one or 2 rogue miners who might do so every once in a while for the lulz)

 

[GotaPauj]

I like gold, it shines, but bitcoin isa not a real coin

[sidhujag]

if we are doing a hardfork anyway would lightening transactions help alleviate some of the spam attacks by creating instant transactions through locktime/multisig? Thus those that are attacked because they cant get their tx through for days can use lightening tx?

[Erdogan]

The human aspect. What will happen (any blocksize really) if a powerful opponent fills the queue with spam transactions with high fee, like 0.01 BTC or even higher? A few million dollars could suffocate the functioning of bitcoin for months. My guess: As such situation is not advantageous for the miners despite the good fee money, they would find the spam transactions using heuristics, then fill blocks say half with spam transaction to take the good money, and half with normal transactions. The attack would be costly for the attacker, reduce the payment functionality to a degree, otherwise bitcoin would continue as always.

[sickpig]

if we are doing a hardfork anyway would lightening transactions help alleviate some of the spam attacks by creating instant transactions through locktime/multisig? Thus those that are attacked because they cant get their tx through for days can use lightening tx?

LN would be opt- in I suppose, so if an attacker want to hit the block chain directly there's no way to block him, the Bitcoin network is open afterall. You could put in place mechanisms/incentives to dissuade those attacks, but they have to be at the protocol level I think (increase the dust fee threshold, remove tx priority based on coinbase age, ...).

[sickpig]

So your take is that devs are going full "political" rather than technical? (serious question)

If yes, what's the way to unlock this impasse?

Exactly. The heavy political bent of the core developers was obvious to me since I joined this forum. I just underestimated the amount of internal tension and mutual distrust within that group until the March 2013 event.

My proposal was published late 2011 and I always wear it in my signature:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=54382.0

In one sentence:

Don't sign political slogans like "Chancellor on the brink...", sign the "digital prospectus" specifying exactly the rules of consensus and explicitly track their inevitable changes as the world evolves, including through the splits and joins that form a DAG (directed acyclic graph), not just forks.

Posted in this thread couple of days ago:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=68655.msg11664787#msg11664787

Thanks for the pointer, I will definetly have look. From a cursory Iook it seems I have a lot to digest

[cypherdoc]

The human aspect. What will happen (any blocksize really) if a powerful opponent fills the queue with spam transactions with high fee, like 0.01 BTC or even higher? A few million dollars could suffocate the functioning of bitcoin for months. My guess: As such situation is not advantageous for the miners despite the good fee money, they would find the spam transactions using heuristics, then fill blocks say half with spam transaction to take the good money, and half with normal transactions. The attack would be costly for the attacker, reduce the payment functionality to a degree, otherwise bitcoin would continue as always.

i was pondering this the other day.  the best way to handle it?  no limit.  let the miners chew through high fees like that.  is it even spam at that point?  who cares?  those would be tremendous profit to miners and strengthen and drive the hashrate even higher securing Bitcoin even tighter.  which ultimately is the last thing the spammer wants which would eventually cause them to conclude it wasn't worth it.  and then stop.

[solex]

if we are doing a hardfork anyway would lightening transactions help alleviate some of the spam attacks by creating instant transactions through locktime/multisig? Thus those that are attacked because they cant get their tx through for days can use lightening tx?

LN would be opt- in I suppose, so if an attacker want to hit the block chain directly there's no way to block him, the Bitcoin network is open afterall. You could put in place mechanisms/incentives to dissuade those attacks, but they have to be at the protocol level I think (increase the dust fee threshold, remove tx priority based on coinbase age, ...).

It won't be necessary to rely on LN-type solutions to overcome spam. The correct solutions exist to handle it.

This major spam attack has been instructive, and some good things will come from it, most importantly Jeff's solution to clean up tx prioritization with a fee/KB basis and a 288 block mempool expiry, and dynamic dust threshold. If it takes this type of attack to make blue-hat thinking reach the codebase - then great.

The attack was much worse than it should have been, peaking around 90,000 tx, would have been about 16,000 tx if the dust threshold was not cut in a software change last year. Mike proposed this because btc had reached the $500 region, but it was a premature proposal and simply left a bigger window for spamming.

The biggest defense to spam is the coin dust threshold, secondly it is fees. In fact, spam can be defined as txout<coin_dust, so this value should be high enough to eliminate most noise, and fees prioritize beyond that.
Greg wants software improvements in adversity, well he is getting that with wallet software, which has been the great success of decentralization, since there must be a hundred wallet providers now, of all types. So there is a lot of inertia to change, and a lot of wallet developers were happy to let a simple default fee apply to their user's tx, this is no longer sufficient. Wallets need to be more intelligent about confirmation delays and act  by raising and lowering fees acoordingly. This is happening.

It is amazing how resilient the network is with long periods of full blocks, but anyone who thinks that this is a green light for 1MB4EVR is misreading the situation. A lot of users are upset about delayed tx, but they could have applied a higher fee to beat the spam attack. This is fine when blocks are normally 40% of the of the limit. But this is not a solution when blocks are full of sensible, real-world, kosher tx. Users battling each other for block space with higher fees will be the point where the PR disaster begins.