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Question: Will you support Gavin's new block size limit hard fork of 8MB by January 1, 2016 then doubling every 2 years?
1.  yes
2.  no

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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 1977841 times)
cypherdoc
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July 30, 2015, 02:36:53 PM
 #29521

Pieter Wuille's BIP proposal: "Block size according to technological growth"

https://gist.github.com/sipa/c65665fc360ca7a176a6


edit: btc dev ml announcment http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-July/009763.html


what does it mean when Wladimir "merges" a BIP over on github?
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July 30, 2015, 02:42:08 PM
 #29522

Pieter Wuille's BIP proposal: "Block size according to technological growth"

https://gist.github.com/sipa/c65665fc360ca7a176a6


edit: btc dev ml announcment http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-July/009763.html


what does it mean when Wladimir "merges" a BIP over on github?

?

Bitcoin is a participatory system which ought to respect the right of self determinism of all of its users - Gregory Maxwell.
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July 30, 2015, 02:47:14 PM
 #29523

Pieter Wuille's BIP proposal: "Block size according to technological growth"

https://gist.github.com/sipa/c65665fc360ca7a176a6


edit: btc dev ml announcment http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-July/009763.html


tl;dr

starting from Jan 2017 a 4.4% increase every 97 days, i.e. 17.7% per year

Bitcoin is a participatory system which ought to respect the right of self determinism of all of its users - Gregory Maxwell.
cypherdoc
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July 30, 2015, 02:48:17 PM
 #29524

Pieter Wuille's BIP proposal: "Block size according to technological growth"

https://gist.github.com/sipa/c65665fc360ca7a176a6


edit: btc dev ml announcment http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-July/009763.html


what does it mean when Wladimir "merges" a BIP over on github?

?

Wlad @ 2:21AM via email from ML:

Merged #163.


Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub.
smooth
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July 30, 2015, 02:50:11 PM
 #29525

Pieter Wuille's BIP proposal: "Block size according to technological growth"

https://gist.github.com/sipa/c65665fc360ca7a176a6


edit: btc dev ml announcment http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-July/009763.html


what does it mean when Wladimir "merges" a BIP over on github?

?

Wlad @ 2:21AM via email from ML:

Merged #163.


Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub.

It means the proposal was accepted into to the official repo of bips: https://github.com/bitcoin/bips
cypherdoc
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July 30, 2015, 02:51:36 PM
 #29526

Pieter Wuille's BIP proposal: "Block size according to technological growth"

https://gist.github.com/sipa/c65665fc360ca7a176a6


edit: btc dev ml announcment http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-July/009763.html


what does it mean when Wladimir "merges" a BIP over on github?

?

Wlad @ 2:21AM via email from ML:

Merged #163.


Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub.

It means the proposal was accepted into to the official repo of bips.


huh, i thought that was already done when they assigned it a #.  guess not.

so it doesn't mean anything in regards to having gained consensus...
smooth
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July 30, 2015, 02:57:23 PM
 #29527

Pieter Wuille's BIP proposal: "Block size according to technological growth"

https://gist.github.com/sipa/c65665fc360ca7a176a6


edit: btc dev ml announcment http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-July/009763.html


what does it mean when Wladimir "merges" a BIP over on github?

?

Wlad @ 2:21AM via email from ML:

Merged #163.


Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub.

It means the proposal was accepted into to the official repo of bips.


huh, i thought that was already done when they assigned it a #.  guess not.

Reading the work flow description, it seems assigning a number and adding it to the repo should happen together:

If the BIP editor approves, he will assign the BIP a number, label it as Standards Track, Informational, or Process, give it status "Draft", and add it to the git repository

But in fact that seems not to be the case in practice, since 100 and 102 aren't there currently: https://github.com/bitcoin/bips

Quote
so it doesn't mean anything in regards to having gained consensus...

No.
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July 30, 2015, 02:59:53 PM
 #29528

Pieter Wuille's BIP proposal: "Block size according to technological growth"

https://gist.github.com/sipa/c65665fc360ca7a176a6


edit: btc dev ml announcment http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-July/009763.html


what does it mean when Wladimir "merges" a BIP over on github?

?

Wlad @ 2:21AM via email from ML:

Merged #163.


Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub.

It means the proposal was accepted into to the official repo of bips.


huh, i thought that was already done when they assigned it a #.  guess not.

Reading the work flow description, it seems assigning a number and adding it to the repo should happen together:

If the BIP editor approves, he will assign the BIP a number, label it as Standards Track, Informational, or Process, give it status "Draft", and add it to the git repository

But in fact that seems not to be the case in practice, since 100 and 102 aren't there currently: https://github.com/bitcoin/bips

Quote
so it doesn't mean anything in regards to having gained consensus...

No.

thx smooth.  it's great to have someone like you around.
Erdogan
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July 30, 2015, 03:00:19 PM
 #29529

1. Hard block size unlimited.

2. Accept as valid blocks of size up to X for the time being, X decided by consensus amongst miners and developers and individuals in the community, re the current block size discussion.

3. Produce max Y size blocks for the time being, value of Y (less than X) decided by a (per def benevolent, since it is voluntary) cartel of miners.

4. Each individual miner produces blocks of max size Z, Z decided egoistically to maximize profit, to avoid technical problems and to minimize risk of orphaning, dependent on his trust of the real consensus of the previous points.

tl;dr no hard limit.

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July 30, 2015, 03:03:37 PM
 #29530

I am I the only one who can feel the narrative of the blocksize debate shifting?

That's probably just gas.

The block size will increase "eventually" but Not Tonight, Dear.   Cheesy

Pieter Wuille's BIP proposal: "Block size according to technological growth"
https://gist.github.com/sipa/c65665fc360ca7a176a6
edit: btc dev ml announcment http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-July/009763.html

"January 2017"   Cheesy

Team Gavinista will never go for this.  They demand Dramatic Action Now and Faster, Please.

Too bad that's not going to happen.  If only they understood why the 1MB cap is neither arbitrary nor artificial:

Quote

The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy.  David Chaum 1996
"Monero" : { Private - Auditable - 100% Fungible - Flexible Blocksize - Wild & Free® - Intro - Core GUI - Podcats - Roadmap - Dice - Blackjack - Github - Android }
MoneroForCash.com  |  Buy and sell XMR near you  |  Easymonero.com  |  Bitsquare.io - Decentralized XMR Exchange  |  Buy XMR with fiat
Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect.  Adam Back 2014

Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016
Blocks must necessarily be full for the Bitcoin network to be able to pay for its own security.  davout 2015
Blocksize is an intentionally limited resource, like the 21e6 BTC limit.  Changing it degrades the surrounding economics, creating negative incentives.  Jeff Garzik 2013


The raison d'être of bitcoin is trustlessness. - Eric Lombrozo 2015
It is an Engineering Requirement that Bitcoin be “Above the Law”  Paul Sztorc 2015
Resiliency, not efficiency, is the paramount goal of decentralized, non-state sanctioned currency -Jon Matonis 2015

Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016

Technology tends to move in the direction of making surveillance easier, and the ability of computers to track us doubles every eighteen months. - Phil Zimmerman 2013

The only way to make software secure, reliable, and fast is to make it small. Fight Features. - Andy Tanenbaum 2004
brg444
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Bitcoin replaces central, not commercial, banks


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July 30, 2015, 06:31:21 PM
 #29531

I'm curious why some people in this thread support the removal of a blocksize cap when Gavin himself suggests this is not conceivable.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3f5yyr/block_size_according_to_technological_growth_by/ctlqzs7

"I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010
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July 30, 2015, 06:47:15 PM
 #29532

I'm curious why some people in this thread support the removal of a blocksize cap when Gavin himself suggests this is not conceivable.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3f5yyr/block_size_according_to_technological_growth_by/ctlqzs7

because their opinions only partially overlap with Gavin's?

Bitcoin is a participatory system which ought to respect the right of self determinism of all of its users - Gregory Maxwell.
Erdogan
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July 30, 2015, 06:48:55 PM
 #29533

I'm curious why some people in this thread support the removal of a blocksize cap when Gavin himself suggests this is not conceivable.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3f5yyr/block_size_according_to_technological_growth_by/ctlqzs7

Yeah memory exhaustion. That is one of the limits of nature, that is impossible to come around, an automatic limit. The different stakeholders, as I suggested in my post, will of course make sure, using their own limits, that any valid block can not exhaust memory on their current machinery. So no problem. To avoid orphaning on one side, and to avoid their own machines crashing on the other side, for both reasons, leaving block rewards to others.


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July 30, 2015, 07:18:06 PM
 #29534

If you would believe reddit, everyone is running an XT node right about now

http://xtnodes.com/

 Cheesy

"I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010
Erdogan
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July 30, 2015, 07:27:19 PM
 #29535

If you would believe reddit, everyone is running an XT node right about now

http://xtnodes.com/

 Cheesy

1.5 percent. How do they identify themselves as XT nodes?

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July 30, 2015, 07:31:28 PM
 #29536

If you would believe reddit, everyone is running an XT node right about now

http://xtnodes.com/

 Cheesy

1.5 percent.



The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy.  David Chaum 1996
"Monero" : { Private - Auditable - 100% Fungible - Flexible Blocksize - Wild & Free® - Intro - Core GUI - Podcats - Roadmap - Dice - Blackjack - Github - Android }
MoneroForCash.com  |  Buy and sell XMR near you  |  Easymonero.com  |  Bitsquare.io - Decentralized XMR Exchange  |  Buy XMR with fiat
Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect.  Adam Back 2014

Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016
Blocks must necessarily be full for the Bitcoin network to be able to pay for its own security.  davout 2015
Blocksize is an intentionally limited resource, like the 21e6 BTC limit.  Changing it degrades the surrounding economics, creating negative incentives.  Jeff Garzik 2013


The raison d'être of bitcoin is trustlessness. - Eric Lombrozo 2015
It is an Engineering Requirement that Bitcoin be “Above the Law”  Paul Sztorc 2015
Resiliency, not efficiency, is the paramount goal of decentralized, non-state sanctioned currency -Jon Matonis 2015

Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016

Technology tends to move in the direction of making surveillance easier, and the ability of computers to track us doubles every eighteen months. - Phil Zimmerman 2013

The only way to make software secure, reliable, and fast is to make it small. Fight Features. - Andy Tanenbaum 2004
Erdogan
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July 30, 2015, 07:35:41 PM
 #29537

If you would believe reddit, everyone is running an XT node right about now

http://xtnodes.com/

 Cheesy

1.5 percent. How do they identify themselves as XT nodes?




Hello? And fuck your quoting habits.

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July 30, 2015, 07:37:33 PM
 #29538


I score this for Mike.

He's made a strong case for what the original vision was, and maybe from the perspective of "social contract" that should be kept regardless of whether it is viewed as the "best thing" for Bitcoin. Obviously opinions strongly differ on the latter, and maybe that has to do with the context of us now living in a post-Snowden era which didn't exist when that "original vision" was defined. But the argument against the original vision being nodes all in data centers, most people using SPV, etc. is getting very thin.


Hearn has always been quite brilliant about this stuff and much more far sighted than most.  Not only that but he has demonstrated the energy and ability to make his visions come at least close to reality.  (No shit about this, BTW.)

I do hope that people analyze the path forward and make the decision which is best for them about which fork to follow.if they have much choice in the matter.  By now the various visions for the future are much more defined than they were even half a year ago so there is no excuse for people not to put up or shut up.  Fork it soon please!

I will mention again that I am willing to entertain a proof-of-burn to migrate to a solution which holds to and enhances the aspects of Bitcoin which appealed to me when I first got into it.  What would be groovy would be to do it in such a way that the XT folks could re-mine the things.  This would be good to get more people more interested in XT and jump on that bandwagon (and hopefully stop stinking up ours.)



Can you please explain "proof-of burn"?

"remine the things"?

███████████████████████████████████████

            ,╓p@@███████@╗╖,           
        ,p████████████████████N,       
      d█████████████████████████b     
    d██████████████████████████████æ   
  ,████²█████████████████████████████, 
 ,█████  ╙████████████████████╨  █████y
 ██████    `████████████████`    ██████
║██████       Ñ███████████`      ███████
███████         ╩██████Ñ         ███████
███████    ▐▄     ²██╩     a▌    ███████
╢██████    ▐▓█▄          ▄█▓▌    ███████
 ██████    ▐▓▓▓▓▌,     ▄█▓▓▓▌    ██████─
           ▐▓▓▓▓▓▓█,,▄▓▓▓▓▓▓▌          
           ▐▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▌          
    ▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓─  
     ²▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓╩    
        ▀▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▀       
           ²▀▀▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▀▀`          
                   ²²²                 
███████████████████████████████████████

. ★☆ WWW.LEALANA.COM        My PGP fingerprint is A764D833.        SMOOTHIE'S HEALTH AND FITNESS JOURNAL          History of Monero development Visualization ★☆ .
LEALANA  PHYSICAL MONERO COINS 999 FINE SILVER.
 
cypherdoc
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July 30, 2015, 07:39:28 PM
 #29539

If you would believe reddit, everyone is running an XT node right about now

http://xtnodes.com/

 Cheesy

1.5 percent.




what, no link?  you have this bad habit of seeing support for your arguments where there is none.  for example; Todd has 0 pts while Gavin has 20 upvotes and MOA is just off in his own thuggish world.  i'd bet Todd has even downvotes for this by now.

plus, we already know the 5 largest miners CAN'T do this attack b/c they happen to be in China and behind the GFC.  whoops; another failed simulation based on incorrect assumptions.
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July 30, 2015, 07:40:00 PM
 #29540


"1.5 percent."  I LOL'ed.   Cheesy

The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy.  David Chaum 1996
"Monero" : { Private - Auditable - 100% Fungible - Flexible Blocksize - Wild & Free® - Intro - Core GUI - Podcats - Roadmap - Dice - Blackjack - Github - Android }
MoneroForCash.com  |  Buy and sell XMR near you  |  Easymonero.com  |  Bitsquare.io - Decentralized XMR Exchange  |  Buy XMR with fiat
Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect.  Adam Back 2014

Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016
Blocks must necessarily be full for the Bitcoin network to be able to pay for its own security.  davout 2015
Blocksize is an intentionally limited resource, like the 21e6 BTC limit.  Changing it degrades the surrounding economics, creating negative incentives.  Jeff Garzik 2013


The raison d'être of bitcoin is trustlessness. - Eric Lombrozo 2015
It is an Engineering Requirement that Bitcoin be “Above the Law”  Paul Sztorc 2015
Resiliency, not efficiency, is the paramount goal of decentralized, non-state sanctioned currency -Jon Matonis 2015

Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016

Technology tends to move in the direction of making surveillance easier, and the ability of computers to track us doubles every eighteen months. - Phil Zimmerman 2013

The only way to make software secure, reliable, and fast is to make it small. Fight Features. - Andy Tanenbaum 2004
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