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Question: Will you support Gavin's new block size limit hard fork of 8MB by January 1, 2016 then doubling every 2 years?
1.  yes
2.  no

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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 2011847 times)
cypherdoc
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July 30, 2015, 02:48:17 PM
 #29521

Pieter Wuille's BIP proposal: "Block size according to technological growth"

https://gist.github.com/sipa/c65665fc360ca7a176a6


edit: btc dev ml announcment http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-July/009763.html


what does it mean when Wladimir "merges" a BIP over on github?

?

Wlad @ 2:21AM via email from ML:

Merged #163.


Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub.
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smooth
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July 30, 2015, 02:50:11 PM
 #29522

Pieter Wuille's BIP proposal: "Block size according to technological growth"

https://gist.github.com/sipa/c65665fc360ca7a176a6


edit: btc dev ml announcment http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-July/009763.html


what does it mean when Wladimir "merges" a BIP over on github?

?

Wlad @ 2:21AM via email from ML:

Merged #163.


Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub.

It means the proposal was accepted into to the official repo of bips: https://github.com/bitcoin/bips
cypherdoc
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July 30, 2015, 02:51:36 PM
 #29523

Pieter Wuille's BIP proposal: "Block size according to technological growth"

https://gist.github.com/sipa/c65665fc360ca7a176a6


edit: btc dev ml announcment http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-July/009763.html


what does it mean when Wladimir "merges" a BIP over on github?

?

Wlad @ 2:21AM via email from ML:

Merged #163.


Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub.

It means the proposal was accepted into to the official repo of bips.


huh, i thought that was already done when they assigned it a #.  guess not.

so it doesn't mean anything in regards to having gained consensus...
smooth
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July 30, 2015, 02:57:23 PM
 #29524

Pieter Wuille's BIP proposal: "Block size according to technological growth"

https://gist.github.com/sipa/c65665fc360ca7a176a6


edit: btc dev ml announcment http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-July/009763.html


what does it mean when Wladimir "merges" a BIP over on github?

?

Wlad @ 2:21AM via email from ML:

Merged #163.


Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub.

It means the proposal was accepted into to the official repo of bips.


huh, i thought that was already done when they assigned it a #.  guess not.

Reading the work flow description, it seems assigning a number and adding it to the repo should happen together:

If the BIP editor approves, he will assign the BIP a number, label it as Standards Track, Informational, or Process, give it status "Draft", and add it to the git repository

But in fact that seems not to be the case in practice, since 100 and 102 aren't there currently: https://github.com/bitcoin/bips

Quote
so it doesn't mean anything in regards to having gained consensus...

No.
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July 30, 2015, 02:59:53 PM
 #29525

Pieter Wuille's BIP proposal: "Block size according to technological growth"

https://gist.github.com/sipa/c65665fc360ca7a176a6


edit: btc dev ml announcment http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-July/009763.html


what does it mean when Wladimir "merges" a BIP over on github?

?

Wlad @ 2:21AM via email from ML:

Merged #163.


Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub.

It means the proposal was accepted into to the official repo of bips.


huh, i thought that was already done when they assigned it a #.  guess not.

Reading the work flow description, it seems assigning a number and adding it to the repo should happen together:

If the BIP editor approves, he will assign the BIP a number, label it as Standards Track, Informational, or Process, give it status "Draft", and add it to the git repository

But in fact that seems not to be the case in practice, since 100 and 102 aren't there currently: https://github.com/bitcoin/bips

Quote
so it doesn't mean anything in regards to having gained consensus...

No.

thx smooth.  it's great to have someone like you around.
Erdogan
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July 30, 2015, 03:00:19 PM
 #29526

1. Hard block size unlimited.

2. Accept as valid blocks of size up to X for the time being, X decided by consensus amongst miners and developers and individuals in the community, re the current block size discussion.

3. Produce max Y size blocks for the time being, value of Y (less than X) decided by a (per def benevolent, since it is voluntary) cartel of miners.

4. Each individual miner produces blocks of max size Z, Z decided egoistically to maximize profit, to avoid technical problems and to minimize risk of orphaning, dependent on his trust of the real consensus of the previous points.

tl;dr no hard limit.

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July 30, 2015, 03:03:37 PM
 #29527

I am I the only one who can feel the narrative of the blocksize debate shifting?

That's probably just gas.

The block size will increase "eventually" but Not Tonight, Dear.   Cheesy

Pieter Wuille's BIP proposal: "Block size according to technological growth"
https://gist.github.com/sipa/c65665fc360ca7a176a6
edit: btc dev ml announcment http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-July/009763.html

"January 2017"   Cheesy

Team Gavinista will never go for this.  They demand Dramatic Action Now and Faster, Please.

Too bad that's not going to happen.  If only they understood why the 1MB cap is neither arbitrary nor artificial:

Quote


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Monero
"The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine
whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." 
David Chaum 1996
"Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect."  Adam Back 2014
Buy and sell XMR near you
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brg444
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July 30, 2015, 06:31:21 PM
 #29528

I'm curious why some people in this thread support the removal of a blocksize cap when Gavin himself suggests this is not conceivable.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3f5yyr/block_size_according_to_technological_growth_by/ctlqzs7

"I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010
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July 30, 2015, 06:47:15 PM
 #29529

I'm curious why some people in this thread support the removal of a blocksize cap when Gavin himself suggests this is not conceivable.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3f5yyr/block_size_according_to_technological_growth_by/ctlqzs7

because their opinions only partially overlap with Gavin's?

Bitcoin is a participatory system which ought to respect the right of self determinism of all of its users - Gregory Maxwell.
Erdogan
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July 30, 2015, 06:48:55 PM
 #29530

I'm curious why some people in this thread support the removal of a blocksize cap when Gavin himself suggests this is not conceivable.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3f5yyr/block_size_according_to_technological_growth_by/ctlqzs7

Yeah memory exhaustion. That is one of the limits of nature, that is impossible to come around, an automatic limit. The different stakeholders, as I suggested in my post, will of course make sure, using their own limits, that any valid block can not exhaust memory on their current machinery. So no problem. To avoid orphaning on one side, and to avoid their own machines crashing on the other side, for both reasons, leaving block rewards to others.


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July 30, 2015, 07:18:06 PM
 #29531

If you would believe reddit, everyone is running an XT node right about now

http://xtnodes.com/

 Cheesy

"I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010
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July 30, 2015, 07:27:19 PM
 #29532

If you would believe reddit, everyone is running an XT node right about now

http://xtnodes.com/

 Cheesy

1.5 percent. How do they identify themselves as XT nodes?

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July 30, 2015, 07:31:28 PM
 #29533

If you would believe reddit, everyone is running an XT node right about now

http://xtnodes.com/

 Cheesy

1.5 percent.




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Monero
"The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine
whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." 
David Chaum 1996
"Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect."  Adam Back 2014
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July 30, 2015, 07:35:41 PM
 #29534

If you would believe reddit, everyone is running an XT node right about now

http://xtnodes.com/

 Cheesy

1.5 percent. How do they identify themselves as XT nodes?




Hello? And fuck your quoting habits.

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July 30, 2015, 07:37:33 PM
 #29535


I score this for Mike.

He's made a strong case for what the original vision was, and maybe from the perspective of "social contract" that should be kept regardless of whether it is viewed as the "best thing" for Bitcoin. Obviously opinions strongly differ on the latter, and maybe that has to do with the context of us now living in a post-Snowden era which didn't exist when that "original vision" was defined. But the argument against the original vision being nodes all in data centers, most people using SPV, etc. is getting very thin.


Hearn has always been quite brilliant about this stuff and much more far sighted than most.  Not only that but he has demonstrated the energy and ability to make his visions come at least close to reality.  (No shit about this, BTW.)

I do hope that people analyze the path forward and make the decision which is best for them about which fork to follow.if they have much choice in the matter.  By now the various visions for the future are much more defined than they were even half a year ago so there is no excuse for people not to put up or shut up.  Fork it soon please!

I will mention again that I am willing to entertain a proof-of-burn to migrate to a solution which holds to and enhances the aspects of Bitcoin which appealed to me when I first got into it.  What would be groovy would be to do it in such a way that the XT folks could re-mine the things.  This would be good to get more people more interested in XT and jump on that bandwagon (and hopefully stop stinking up ours.)



Can you please explain "proof-of burn"?

"remine the things"?

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cypherdoc
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July 30, 2015, 07:39:28 PM
 #29536

If you would believe reddit, everyone is running an XT node right about now

http://xtnodes.com/

 Cheesy

1.5 percent.




what, no link?  you have this bad habit of seeing support for your arguments where there is none.  for example; Todd has 0 pts while Gavin has 20 upvotes and MOA is just off in his own thuggish world.  i'd bet Todd has even downvotes for this by now.

plus, we already know the 5 largest miners CAN'T do this attack b/c they happen to be in China and behind the GFC.  whoops; another failed simulation based on incorrect assumptions.
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July 30, 2015, 07:40:00 PM
 #29537


"1.5 percent."  I LOL'ed.   Cheesy


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Monero
"The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine
whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." 
David Chaum 1996
"Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect."  Adam Back 2014
Buy and sell XMR near you
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July 30, 2015, 07:41:59 PM
 #29538

what, no link?

Click the pic Grandpa.   Smiley


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██████████████████████
█████████████████
██████████

Monero
"The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine
whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." 
David Chaum 1996
"Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect."  Adam Back 2014
Buy and sell XMR near you
P2P Exchange Network
Buy XMR with fiat
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July 30, 2015, 07:43:19 PM
 #29539

Quote
To be clear, this is one of 3+ possible proposals in the works among Blockstream developers. There is no "party line" where the company can tell the developers what they should believe.

There is a lot of merit to Pieter's draft BIP. We should openly discuss it in public alongside the other draft BIP's.

Others are in favor of an entirely different approach to increasing the block size that would more in line with actual transaction demand while making no guesses about what things will look like in the future. This proposal is a bit more complex and is currently under development. I'm personally working on getting this stuff written down so it would be easier for everyone to understand, to enable developing this approach with the global developer community.

Some hope the drama can calm down to allow for a return to a constructive, collaborative technical process as is common in Open Source development. The recent environment of incivility and personal attacks has led them to be highly reluctant to agree to any controversial changes while under duress. A meta-solution in favor of bringing professionalism and academic discipline to the questions surrounding Bitcoin Scalability is currently under proposal between developers, academics and commercial stakeholders. Hopefully an announcement about this will be ready by early next week.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3f5yyr/block_size_according_to_technological_growth_by/ctlw6zx

#teamblockstream

"I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010
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July 30, 2015, 07:48:02 PM
 #29540

for example; Todd has 0 pts while Gavin has 20 upvotes and MOA is just off in his own thuggish world.  i'd bet Todd has even downvotes for this by now.

I CAN'T!!!  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy


"I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010
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