[XMR] Monero Speculation

[GingerAle]

What is the better way to get around 5k USD value XMR:  buy it at current price (190k) or mine it?

Mine it if you have access to a boatload of free electricity and hardware.

Otherwise buy it.

I have free electricity but no free hardware

then yeah, buy it. Otherwise you're looking at buying thousands of dollars worth of 290X's in order to get 5k XMR in any reasonable amount of time.

But what if I buy the mining equipment for several k of USD, mine and sell 5k USD value XMR and then:
1. Continue mining XMR or other coin or
2. Sell the mining hardware with 20-30% discount of the original price

to the mining thread we go!!!

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=653467.msg11834227#msg11834227

[wpalczynski]

What is the better way to get around 5k USD value XMR:  buy it at current price (190k) or mine it?

Mine it if you have access to a boatload of free electricity and hardware.

Otherwise buy it.

I have free electricity but no free hardware

then yeah, buy it. Otherwise you're looking at buying thousands of dollars worth of 290X's in order to get 5k XMR in any reasonable amount of time.

But what if I buy the mining equipment for several k of USD, mine and sell 5k USD value XMR and then:
1. Continue mining XMR or other coin or
2. Sell the mining hardware with 20-30% discount of the original price

You are much much better off buying Monero for that 5K, especially at it's current low price.

[binaryFate]

You are much much better off buying Monero for that 5K, especially at it's current low price.

+1
There is little chance Monero will stay at such low prices/low hashrate as it is now, during the long time it will take to recoup your initial investment (couple of years maybe). If by then it's less than now, it will be probably completely dead, in which case your 5k (or working towards it) won't matter. If it's more, you'll kick yourself for not getting 5k for the price of today.
I'm not saying you shouldn't mine, but that if you have a significant initial investment in order to mine, there is very little change that this strategy brings more than buying 5k directly instead, considering all possible outcomes.
 

[XMRChina]

Do you see XMR getting a slingshot effect from the current rally of 1st gen altcoins (LTC/NMC/PPC etc)?

No opinion.  I am trying to restrict my views to higher confidence, better informed, cases these days.  I do think the next  XMR ATH is one day closer than it was yesterday, though, and try to maintain my fraction until then.

I also think silver is likely to have a good fortnight or so upcoming before the next leg down.  That is fairly high confidence and quite easily accessible for retail.

I would not short China here.  Short eurnok is tempting, but I can not really recommend it for most people, particularly as it might be a bit premature. It is working for me at the moment, but can easily sting as well.  Long usdjpy is safer, as is short XAUXAG, over a weeks, maybe  a month. U.s. shares are due a relief rally at least.  If Iran comes to market soon, oil should tank again.

I try to focus on long term because predictions (5+ years) over short term.

I think sliver will do well in comparison to gold but maybe not in comparison to other markets

Chinese equity markets are very volatile. Over the next 5+ years I think they will do fine but big swings along the way are likely

I think Euro and US Dollar will have a hard time over the next decade. Short term, who knows.

I am bullish on oil, clean water tech and agriculture long term

And of course I believe in crypto and Monero most of all

[wpalczynski]

You are much much better off buying Monero for that 5K, especially at it's current low price.

+1
There is little chance Monero will stay at such low prices/low hashrate as it is now, during the long time it will take to recoup your initial investment (couple of years maybe). If by then it's less than now, it will be probably completely dead, in which case your 5k (or working towards it) won't matter. If it's more, you'll kick yourself for not getting 5k for the price of today.
I'm not saying you shouldn't mine, but that if you have a significant initial investment in order to mine, there is very little change that this strategy brings more than buying 5k directly instead, considering all possible outcomes.
 

In addition to all said before keep in mind that the moment Monero starts appreciating in price the hashrate will probably double pretty quickly cutting your expected mining rewards by half.

[TheKoziTwo]

[kazuki49]

It's exactly what I'm doing, while people are out celebrating the rally on the bigbrother blockchains, I'm counting XMR.

[rpietila]

I think it's possible that the pump going on in LTC/NMC/PPC will spill over to XMR soon.

Anyway participating in the pump is too late. Much rather hold XMR at these levels.

[necrita]

anyone buying this dump?

[dreamspark]

 

This did make me laugh.

Definitely haven't just been sitting here though. My pile of btc to buy XMR whenever I feel that time may be is certainly much larger though.

If anything this is a lesson about being diversified. Not just in different asset classes, stocks, crypto, property, gold/silver etc but also within certain cryptos. I do feel for anyone who is 100% BTC/XMR atm.

[mrkavasaki]

I think it's possible that the pump going on in LTC/NMC/PPC will spill over to XMR soon.

Anyway participating in the pump is too late. Much rather hold XMR at these levels.

 ltc, nmc, ppc are pumped by btc-e. Monero is not listed on Btc-e, so there won't be any pump soon

[XMRChina]

I think it's possible that the pump going on in LTC/NMC/PPC will spill over to XMR soon.

Anyway participating in the pump is too late. Much rather hold XMR at these levels.

 ltc, nmc, ppc are pumped by btc-e. Monero is not listed on Btc-e, so there won't be any pump soon

Everyone should keep asking BTC-e (and BTC38) to add Monero.

I have sent messages to these exchanges and more. Have you?

The more community members that ask for a coin to be added the better

[XMRChina]

anyone buying this dump?

Cost averaging is a good idea. Tops and bottoms are hard to predict but I do like current prices a lot

[wpalczynski]

I think it's possible that the pump going on in LTC/NMC/PPC will spill over to XMR soon.

Anyway participating in the pump is too late. Much rather hold XMR at these levels.

 ltc, nmc, ppc are pumped by btc-e. Monero is not listed on Btc-e, so there won't be any pump soon

Everyone should keep asking BTC-e (and BTC38) to add Monero.

I have sent messages to these exchanges and more. Have you?

The more community members that ask for a coin to be added the better

Maybe post an email address or link to contact form in order to make it easier for people to ask them.  

[XMRChina]

I think it's possible that the pump going on in LTC/NMC/PPC will spill over to XMR soon.

Anyway participating in the pump is too late. Much rather hold XMR at these levels.

 ltc, nmc, ppc are pumped by btc-e. Monero is not listed on Btc-e, so there won't be any pump soon

Everyone should keep asking BTC-e (and BTC38) to add Monero.

I have sent messages to these exchanges and more. Have you?

The more community members that ask for a coin to be added the better

Maybe post an email address or link to contact form in order to make it easier for people to ask them.  

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I hope everyone who supports XMR will contact all the major exchanges and ask them to add us.

The more exchanges we have the more liquidity and exposure we get

Cryptsy keeps saying they will add XMR as well but they have taken a year already since it was high on voting list.....

Please keep asking exchanges to add us. Remind them of our potential trading volume and unique features

[dnaleor]

Well, I would agree that the difference in lifestyle between a billionaire and a millionaire is probably less significant than between a millionaire and a thousandaire.  
  
However, perhaps you have never tasted wealth.  
  
Let me tell you what happens, believe it or not.  At first, it feels just as you would expect it to.  Amazing...  Miraculous...  Magical...  You can't believe this is really happening to you.  
  
This feeling lasts for months.  Then, it begins to dull.  This isn't wealth anymore.  This is just life.  You deserve these things and are used to them.  
  
For example, let me assume you are currently middle class.  Imagine suddenly moving to a trailer park and living off of microwave dinners with a beat up jalopy car...  That is how you will slowly come to view your *current* middle class existence...  Basically, you won't want to go back.  Also, you will bore of the luxuries that wealth brings.  When life turns into a permanent vacation of booze, beaches, shopping, and gorgeous women, you initially think that you won't need anything else.  
  
But over time you will begin to suspect that many of the friends you make only hang out with you because of your money and status (because it's true) and you will find that swimming in the trappings of wealth is an ultimately hollow existence.  You will begin to crave more power and influence, and begin thinking of ways to leave your mark on the world.  After all, you are so great right?  Shouldn't you do something or build something really big?  It's not about survival or comfort anymore...  It's about mattering in the grand cosmic scheme.  
  
And you know what?  A billionaire can do a fuck of a lot more to finance mega projects than a millionaire can.  This is why people aren't happy stopping at millionaire.  
  
The human mind is wired to always look upward towards the next rung of the ladder, and when you finally find your wealth, you will too.

You've excellently articulated this concept. You maybe underestimate how people would be content with drinking, rich food and prostitutes till they kick the bucket, but I think any half intelligent person quickly becomes restless with the banality of hedonism.

I only partially agree: people will indeed be used to the wealth within a matter of a few years (at max). But I don't think everyone will be looking upwards at that moment. I for one think I'll just plan it all out. With about 1.5 - 2 Million in today's purchasing power, it's possible to retire early (assuming being 30 and living till 80) and just live an easy life. reading books, exploring the world with a backpack, doing fun things that are not too costly. enjoying life basically, without extravaganza.

Assuming you are able to keep your capital from loosing value (so keeping it stable in an inflationary environment) and having 1500000 M to live of during 50 years, you can hand yourself a "wage" of 2500 per month. Not bad, but not big either.
Save for your trips, read (or try to write) books, hang out with friends, learn esperanto, maybe try to program, mentor people, give some of your time to the local homeless center, ... in between and just enjoy life
Your only "job" will be monitoring your capital and making sure it doesn't loose value. You'll need to have the discipline to not spend it all though.

[GingerAle]

A. How many Moneros would it take to be considered a whale?

B. Whats the minimum amount of Moneros one would need to see a real wealth increase if/when Monero really takes off?

A. I've seen 30k - 80k XMR walls on poloniex and people referred to them as "whale dumps" or "whale action", so in the 10's of thousands.

B. Lets assume bitcoin provides some sort of valuation roadmap. If XMR ever hit bitcoin parity, then you'd need

(real wealth increase) / (current value of bitcoin) = (minimum amount of monero)

[dnaleor]

Let me improve on that meme and use the other esperanto-term that has come up in this topic:



or, in Esperanto:

[vgo]

More dumpity dump??   

not really.

Try with Bitcoinwisdom. 



Waiting 0.0016.

Is that the price at which you plan to come gloat? 

It depends on the number of "400k supporting walls" at that time. 

Push! Push!

[smooth]

A. How many Moneros would it take to be considered a whale?

B. Whats the minimum amount of Moneros one would need to see a real wealth increase if/when Monero really takes off?

A. Your own opinion is as good as anyone else's.

B. See A, but I do think that "really takes off" could be 10K-100K USD/XMR. In an extreme outlier case it could be higher. No I'm not predicting this but stating the possibility.