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1781  Other / Meta / Re: BITCOINTALK STAFF QUIETLY BANS PEOPLE FOR SPEAKING OUT AGAINST THEM on: October 08, 2014, 09:33:28 PM

You haven't been able to add anything to this discussion from the start. We don't have the power to change anything either because banning the sale of accounts will change absolutely nothing, but for some reason you are unable or unwilling to grasp this. How can you not comprehend this? Please tell me what good it would actually do? It wouldn't change a single thing except make it easier for people to fall victim to a bought account and that's why it is allowed.

You could simply ban account selling from the forum. That's what you do.

Then you still remind people that its possible that others are buying and selling accounts offsite, but its still illegal to do this onsite. So that's what you do.

It would do good because there wouldn't be as much buying and selling of accounts. I can't believe this isn't obvious to you. I don't think you can see things as clearly as you think that you do. Your position of power has warped your judgment to the viewpoint that you can do no wrong.

As an outsider, potential solutions to the problem are obvious. But you are fighting any sort of change tooth-and-nail, and I have better things to do with my time then help your forum maintain its existence. So much for credibility. To pretend this forum has any credibility is a disastrous lie.

TL;DR - You are openly endorsing crooked behavior by allowing account selling to continue unabated.


Incoming new account in 2 minutes. Actually they probably make or have made dozens as has already been stated.
Banning does nothing. It can't be enforced effectively. I can't believe this isn't obvious to you.
People will still go to Skype, PM and other places to buy and sell without missing a step.
Give us some viable solutions instead of quoting the same thing over and over.



EDIT: Personal attacks do nothing for your credibility.
1782  Other / Meta / Re: BITCOINTALK STAFF QUIETLY BANS PEOPLE FOR SPEAKING OUT AGAINST THEM on: October 08, 2014, 09:19:46 PM
Quote
I will continue to keep track of sold accounts to the best of my ability and warn other users if I see them attempting to run scams.

And I would be happy to read your list and compare notes. I do believe those that are bought/sold and discovered deserve some type of warning.
1783  Other / Meta / Re: BITCOINTALK STAFF QUIETLY BANS PEOPLE FOR SPEAKING OUT AGAINST THEM on: October 08, 2014, 08:47:04 PM

Trust is not meaningless, it is a good starting point.

Unless you are trading with a bought account, in which case trust is absolutely meaningless.

And how can you know if you are conducting a trade with a bought account?

You can't. Ergo, Bitcointalk's trust system is meaningless.

Selling of accounts is nearly impossible if not completely impossible to control. You will have a hard time proving an account sold or bought if the account owner wants it that way. No one knows for sure everyone with whom they deal. This is the way the internet works and has so from the beginning. Simply insist on escrow for your trades it will protect in the future, problem all but solved. As has been stated many times, Trust is a starting point not an end all, be all.
I know this is hard and one has to do a little thinking but a little common sense goes a long way. Let me give you an example:
Account "Fred" has 20 positives. When looking at 15 of them, they are left by the same newbie and the trades are for $5 Paypal for the equivalent in BTC and all made within a week time frame. Could it be possible this was "bought Trust?" Possibly alt account of the buyer?
My thinking process would lean towards yes. The next conclusion would be either stay away or start following the Trust trail for more information. Also, after 15 trades for $5, would I trust a deal for $500? No I would not.
Account "Alice" has 5 trades from 5 different people on the Default list. All were buys over $300 each over a 1 month time period. If I wanted to sell a $300 item to this person, would I? After reading ALL Trust and it checks out, I would use escrow and proceed.
Same account but "Alice" has not posted for a year. I would suspect a stolen or sold account and either use escrow or pass on any trades.
Some Trust is spiteful and malicious but normally it is easy to spot.
Bottom line: You need to protect yourself, sold account or not, use your brain and don't rely on others telling you what to do. If you don't like the Trust system, don't use it. To say it is meaningless is, well, meaningless.


No, it makes sense. Your argument doesn't though. You seem to think that trust is only meaningless because accounts are allowed to be sold, but whether they are or not makes no difference to the trust system because accounts will still be sold regardless. Banning the sale of accounts changes absolutely nothing, apart from maybe making people like you think they're now a little but safer, when they're not.

OK so lets just do away with pretending that the trust system actually matters then, can we?

The entire component should be removed from the forum since it is already prone to being abused.

You're like the American government trying to defend an indefensible position. You won't accept that there is an underlying flaw in the root of your logic.


Same can be said for your position. After placing new rules to protect that are unenforceable, you now have a false sense of more security.
1784  Other / Meta / Re: BITCOINTALK STAFF QUIETLY BANS PEOPLE FOR SPEAKING OUT AGAINST THEM on: October 08, 2014, 07:08:40 PM
You guys realize the trust system is completely meaningless, right?

So long as you can buy and sell accounts, you can get trust that you didn't earn and use it to make trades with people who don't know they are trading with a bought account.

This is why account selling should be frowned upon and not openly endorsed.

And yet that fixes nothing, accounts will still be bought and sold. The "burden of proof" should not rest on the administrators but rather upon those wanting to trade, they are not here to hand hold. It is up to the individual to check the Trust of those they deal with and actually LOOK at what has been left and who left it. Then you can form an educated opinion if you want to believe it or not. A good thing about these buys and sells; it makes you really check the account before you trade. At least it should.
Trust is not meaningless, it is a good starting point.
1785  Economy / Currency exchange / Re: WTB 0.20 BTC with Paypal on: October 08, 2014, 12:03:43 PM
Offer still avaible...send first for honest members...also i can do a donation for no risk...is not first time buying BTC with paypal ..i buying in past from Cryptology

There is ALWAYS risk with Paypal.
what risk if he sent as for friend? 100% he can never charge back payment.

lol really? is that what you think?
I know becouse I'm buying credit, with one member of the other Forum, and sends the first as friend, me scamed and support paypal not me help to recovery money


Did you admit you were buying BTC? If so the digital goods clause was invoked. However, if you funded via credit card, you can still file a charge back with them and Paypal won't lose money if at all possible.
Please post your proof from Paypal.
1786  Economy / Currency exchange / Re: WTB 0.20 BTC with Paypal on: October 08, 2014, 04:15:43 AM
Offer still avaible...send first for honest members...also i can do a donation for no risk...is not first time buying BTC with paypal ..i buying in past from Cryptology

There is ALWAYS risk with Paypal.
1787  Other / Meta / Re: cooldgamer abuse of the trust system on: October 07, 2014, 05:49:37 PM
faggot
Yep, that's totally the way to ask me to remove it.

You were 'buying' BTC for $5 and said you would wait til the chargeback period was over.  You clearly didn't care too much about the coins, but you really wanted that trust from somebody high ranking.  Rep loans can get you negged here, this really isn't any different

you could have confronted me, instead of going behind my back and negging my profile. how am i supposed to know, what is acceptable and what not. christ

Some may argue you were trying to abuse the system by attempting to essentially buy trust. You'll have to work it out with him, but I don't think he did anything wrong here, especially when you were quite open in what you were attempting to do.

i simply stated that i wanted to establish myself as trustworthy, and request to receive positive trust after completion of a trade. how does that warrant a negative trust. this is bullcrap

Can you not see how trying to buy trust to make yourself appear 'trustworthy' makes you the exact opposite?

i'm not trying to make myself appear as anything you fucking retard, i'm trying to prove my trustworthiness by completing a trade!

You are managing to appear to be someone who cares only about yourself and who will fight with those who trade with you if they do not do exactly what you want.  How does that make people want to deal with you?

i want to trade with reputable members only so i don't get scammed! i would have removed my stipulation about the trust if someone told me that that wasn't allowed. how the fuck am i to know? i don't read minds.

Hero member or other reputable member only. must have positive trust. After the chargeback window is closed on paypal, or whenever you are ready, you are to send me the btc. I am accepting the risk that you will not send the btc as recorded in your agreement. if you break the agreement or if i break the agreement, negative trust will be left for the breaker of the agreement. after transaction is complete and both users are sure that the deal was successful, positive feedback is to be exchanged with this thread as reference.

I was thinking of finding reputable hero members and asking them to do trades with me. i would send first, proving i am trustworthy. Really i just want it for bragging rights. My friends at work will be jealous of my green trust rating


Attempting to buy Trust won't get you much of anywhere and it may even cause your Trust to go the other way.
Bragging rights, really?


You were warned. When one finds himself in a deep hole, the first thing to do is stop digging. I believe this applies here.





I wasn't trying to buy trust . jesus get it through your head
1788  Other / Meta / Re: cooldgamer abuse of the trust system on: October 07, 2014, 05:36:28 PM
faggot
Yep, that's totally the way to ask me to remove it.

You were 'buying' BTC for $5 and said you would wait til the chargeback period was over.  You clearly didn't care too much about the coins, but you really wanted that trust from somebody high ranking.  Rep loans can get you negged here, this really isn't any different

you could have confronted me, instead of going behind my back and negging my profile. how am i supposed to know, what is acceptable and what not. christ

Some may argue you were trying to abuse the system by attempting to essentially buy trust. You'll have to work it out with him, but I don't think he did anything wrong here, especially when you were quite open in what you were attempting to do.

i simply stated that i wanted to establish myself as trustworthy, and request to receive positive trust after completion of a trade. how does that warrant a negative trust. this is bullcrap

Can you not see how trying to buy trust to make yourself appear 'trustworthy' makes you the exact opposite?

i'm not trying to make myself appear as anything you fucking retard, i'm trying to prove my trustworthiness by completing a trade!

You are managing to appear to be someone who cares only about yourself and who will fight with those who trade with you if they do not do exactly what you want.  How does that make people want to deal with you?

i want to trade with reputable members only so i don't get scammed! i would have removed my stipulation about the trust if someone told me that that wasn't allowed. how the fuck am i to know? i don't read minds.

Hero member or other reputable member only. must have positive trust. After the chargeback window is closed on paypal, or whenever you are ready, you are to send me the btc. I am accepting the risk that you will not send the btc as recorded in your agreement. if you break the agreement or if i break the agreement, negative trust will be left for the breaker of the agreement. after transaction is complete and both users are sure that the deal was successful, positive feedback is to be exchanged with this thread as reference.

I was thinking of finding reputable hero members and asking them to do trades with me. i would send first, proving i am trustworthy. Really i just want it for bragging rights. My friends at work will be jealous of my green trust rating


Attempting to buy Trust won't get you much of anywhere and it may even cause your Trust to go the other way.
Bragging rights, really?


You were warned. When one finds himself in a deep hole, the first thing to do is stop digging. I believe this applies here.



1789  Other / Meta / Re: How can i get a green trust on my profile? on: October 07, 2014, 03:10:10 PM
i doubt u will ever get one after this topic  Roll Eyes

just got a -6 from some loser. i have broken no rule and scammed nobody. clear abuse of trust system.

No it isn't. You are trying to buy Trust and that is not a trustworthy action. Scammers do this.
1790  Economy / Currency exchange / Re: [WTB] $5 btc with paypal. i send first, we exchange feedback on: October 07, 2014, 02:41:29 PM
Hero member or other reputable member only. must have positive trust. After the chargeback window is closed on paypal, or whenever you are ready, you are to send me the btc. I am accepting the risk that you will not send the btc as recorded in your agreement. if you break the agreement or if i break the agreement, negative trust will be left for the breaker of the agreement. after transaction is complete and both users are sure that the deal was successful, positive feedback is to be exchanged with this thread as reference.

I was thinking of finding reputable hero members and asking them to do trades with me. i would send first, proving i am trustworthy. Really i just want it for bragging rights. My friends at work will be jealous of my green trust rating


Attempting to buy Trust won't get you much of anywhere and it may even cause your Trust to go the other way.
Bragging rights, really?

would you give me a chance instead of assuming the worst? ive been a member here for over a year.

And this means what exactly?
1791  Other / Meta / Re: How can i get a green trust on my profile? on: October 07, 2014, 12:51:33 PM
I was thinking of finding reputable hero members and asking them to do trades with me. i would send first, proving i am trustworthy. Really i just want it for bragging rights. My friends at work will be jealous of my green trust rating

How about working to improve your rating instead of trying to take a short cut and purchase Trust?
Instead of green you may end up with red.
1792  Economy / Currency exchange / Re: [WTB] $5 btc with paypal. i send first, we exchange feedback on: October 07, 2014, 12:48:35 PM
Hero member or other reputable member only. must have positive trust. After the chargeback window is closed on paypal, or whenever you are ready, you are to send me the btc. I am accepting the risk that you will not send the btc as recorded in your agreement. if you break the agreement or if i break the agreement, negative trust will be left for the breaker of the agreement. after transaction is complete and both users are sure that the deal was successful, positive feedback is to be exchanged with this thread as reference.

I was thinking of finding reputable hero members and asking them to do trades with me. i would send first, proving i am trustworthy. Really i just want it for bragging rights. My friends at work will be jealous of my green trust rating


Attempting to buy Trust won't get you much of anywhere and it may even cause your Trust to go the other way.
Bragging rights, really?
1793  Economy / Currency exchange / Re: Buying BTC with PayPal (Verified) and Skrill on: October 07, 2014, 05:13:03 AM
Hello, I'm a poker player and I have money in PayPal and Skrill, and I would like to buy BTC with those payment methods. This is my first time buying BTC and I think its a good investment, so please, if you would like to sell me BTC, send me a PM. Thank u!

Some reading for you: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=14632.0
1794  Economy / Lending / Re: micro loans with colateral on: October 05, 2014, 10:22:41 PM
This is an example of a user when it is appropriate to use escrow for collateral

nowadays trust is seen as opportunity ,friends cheat ,wife cheats, brothers cheats ,sons cheats,there are around 1% honest users overal internet.... the others are cheaters...

soo if you ask a lend be sure you can pay the price otherwise stay away try another place



It isn't the loan in particular that is in question, rather you have no Trust to be holding any collateral. I would suggest you contact a trustworthy escrow, work out a deal and update your OP to reflect. Otherwise, this really looks like a disaster waiting to happen.
1795  Economy / Lending / Re: micro loans with colateral on: October 05, 2014, 10:07:17 PM
interest ratio :10% up to 15%
colateral : paypal,dogecoin litecoin and payza (this colateral loan will be 130% above the loan )

all members can apply with colateral otherwise no deal



note:all fees taken by the processors will be charged from you soo if you send me 15000 and get back 14994 this is fee from those currency....
Loan amount: max: 0.03 minimum :0.003
Term length: MAX OF 3 DAYS
Interest:from 10% up to 15%
Bitcoin address: 1MQWcEjPmv5xmvpoJMXSvv6kihNT8PzYqk



  User          Loan       Status      date of loan   day for repayment      
_____________________________________________________________
1-            




already bought bitcoins with an user here 2501!!!!

Third party escrow is strongly urged for all collateral.
1796  Bitcoin / Press / Re: [2014-10-4] Bitcointalk Staff Quietly Bans People for Speaking Out Against Them on: October 05, 2014, 01:03:36 PM

The people who moan at how this forum is run should try create one, though.

Yes, keeping a forum operating is a difficult task but with a 7-figure budget that should be possible.  However, the issue is not about that, the issues are about common-sense policies that most other forums and legitimate businesses do.  For instance, most forums do not promote Ponzi schemes/illegal investment schemes, partner with vendors who they know will not deliver, promote fake banks where the people lose their funds, and promote the resale of accounts.  Even if you can't stop these things you certainly do not promote it or watch it take place without taking reasonable action to stop it.  You simply don't see this stuff other places and it often makes Bitcoin look ridiculous. 

Greed. It's what causes most scams and the subsequent successes of the scammers. Many of these "deals" happen in Skype, Yahoo and other off site places and only come here to open an accusation thread, seeking some kind of help for their gullible actions. The really sad part is they usually fall for the same scam over and over again.
Throw in people sprinkling dust on the beggars, gamblers and "loan" seekers, this only keeps them coming back and bringing their pals.
Start banning accounts and scammers only create more accounts and stay deeper in the shadows, there is no winning this fight.
If people want to be censored, there are an unlimited places they can go but for myself, I would rather have the freedom here than have a select politically correct few deleting my posts at will.


Your post if hyperbole.  Nobody said a site has to go investigate activities of those who post.  The issue is specifically conspiring people to do illegal, stupid and ridiculous things.  I don't what you are talking about with the freedom not be censored since the article is about Bitcoin staff censoring critics.  If the Bitcoin staff takes the time to censor certain things yet promotes the fake banks and vendors they know won't deliver it seems pretty clear what they are doing.  The "free market" is not the same as conspiring to scam people.

Perhaps you need to reread my "hyperbole" instead of answering with your FUD.
Scams happen everyday, in every county, city, state and country. It's been going on since man has existed. You want utopia, there is no utopia.
1797  Bitcoin / Press / Re: [2014-10-4] Bitcointalk Staff Quietly Bans People for Speaking Out Against Them on: October 05, 2014, 12:39:34 PM

The people who moan at how this forum is run should try create one, though.

Yes, keeping a forum operating is a difficult task but with a 7-figure budget that should be possible.  However, the issue is not about that, the issues are about common-sense policies that most other forums and legitimate businesses do.  For instance, most forums do not promote Ponzi schemes/illegal investment schemes, partner with vendors who they know will not deliver, promote fake banks where the people lose their funds, and promote the resale of accounts.  Even if you can't stop these things you certainly do not promote it or watch it take place without taking reasonable action to stop it.  You simply don't see this stuff other places and it often makes Bitcoin look ridiculous. 

Greed. It's what causes most scams and the subsequent successes of the scammers. Many of these "deals" happen in Skype, Yahoo and other off site places and only come here to open an accusation thread, seeking some kind of help for their gullible actions. The really sad part is they usually fall for the same scam over and over again.
Throw in people sprinkling dust on the beggars, gamblers and "loan" seekers, this only keeps them coming back and bringing their pals.
Start banning accounts and scammers only create more accounts and stay deeper in the shadows, there is no winning this fight.
If people want to be censored, there are an unlimited places they can go but for myself, I would rather have the freedom here than have a select politically correct few deleting my posts at will.
1798  Economy / Currency exchange / Re: [H] Paypal [N] Bitcoin on: October 04, 2014, 04:44:22 AM
I'm looking for a small amount of bitcoin, around $25 USD worth. Please give me your contact information if you have any for sale.

Here is some reading while you wait: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=14632.0
1799  Economy / Scam Accusations / Re: Seling 1.75 BTC Preev+0% and Need Western union on: October 04, 2014, 03:58:45 AM
No one is interested in this?

Any updates on this?
1800  Bitcoin / Mining speculation / Re: new to mining...alot of pcs to use but need suggestions on: October 03, 2014, 03:13:21 PM
So in a nutshell mining today is pointless and no profit comes of it whatsoever no matter if you have free electricity or a decent ASIC machine. Thats what i am getting from your post. Correct me if I am wrong. I have free electricity where I am and could hook up several ASIC boxes if I wished here in my office at work and let them hum along all day and all night.

Someone is paying for that electricity, it isn't free. If you are not the boss you could lose your job. To have enough ASICs to even attempt a profit, you would need thousands of watts of power. Most offices can't handle that type of demand.
As I stated earlier, read all the other scores of threads on this subject.
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