Why I'm an atheist

[kik1977]

In Swaziland people believe in witches. They can tell you that "someone" has seen them flying at night on their broomsticks. There are a bunch of eye witnesses that will tell you that. They go so far on the topic that there is a Law prohibiting witches to fly above 150 meters, for fear that they can interfere with commercial flights (http://metro.co.uk/2013/05/14/swaziland-bans-witches-from-flying-above-150metres-on-broomsticks-3758899/).
Does that mean that I believe in witches? No, actually there is zero evidence.

Same goes for other stories and superstitions, including "miracles". A group of nomads telling each other stories around a fire 2000 years ago don't prove anything. There is still zero evidence.

[BADecker]

Witches flying 150 feet up or whatever, is way different than a whole nation of people being recorded as being excited about Jesus. Something stirred the nation of Israel so strongly that they are adamantly against Christianity today, and would put Christians to death as heretics if they had the strength to do it. This doesn't simply happen for no reason.

In addition, and stronger, those of Israel who accepted Jesus are of the nation that preserves their heritage so powerfully that Isaiah in the Dead Sea Scrolls, that was copied by hand for almost 2,000 years, is shown to be almost the same back then as it is today. This doesn't happen without power behind it. That same power is in the writing of the N.T. that shows the life of Jesus as it was.

However, God isn't the kind of God that forces anyone to believe anything. That's why there is enough leeway in the evidence, so that you can reject by not examining in detail... so that you are not forced to believe because it is stuck right in your face so strongly that you don't have any other choice.

[kik1977]

The basic theme of the Bible is salvation of the mortal soul. Science doesn't even have a clue that the soul exists. Other religions barely have the idea of salvation.

Science has the biggest holes of all.

The big difference is that bible holes stay holes forever. Science holes get filled in, albeit slowly.

Sometimes science unplugs a "placeholder" bible misplugged hole and puts is own plug in as correct replacement. For example when the young 6000 year old earth plug was replace with the correct 4.5 billion year old earth plug.

Thank God for science. (Not the bible god of course, who gets things wrong.)

Actually, it's the other way around. Science continually proves out the Bible when it touches on something that the Bible says.

The idea of a 13 billion old universe is a fictional thing that the science religion has dredged up. The 6,200 year old universe is historical record, recorded in the Bible.

Science keeps on trying to prove evolution. But all they have done so far is to prove that evolution doesn't exist. When they say it does, they prove that they are liars, or deceptive at best.

Nope, as explain in a previous thread, science cannot prove anything about anything. That's not how it works.
So your claim that science is trying to prove evolution is false. Not sure if you just don't understand science or being deliberately deceptive.

I have noted in endless discussions that religious people usually fall in the second category, mostly in combination with the first.

[kik1977]

[kik1977]

...is way different than a whole nation of people being recorded as being excited about Jesus. Something stirred the nation of Israel so strongly that they are adamantly against Christianity today, and would put Christians to death as heretics if they had the strength to do it. This doesn't simply happen for no reason....

It is not.

...is way different than a whole nation of people (Swaziland) being recorded as being excited about jesus Flying Witches. Something stirred the nation of Israel Swaziland so strongly that they are adamantly against Christianity Flying Witches today, and would put Christians Flying Witches to death as heretics if they had the strength to do it. This doesn't simply happen for no reason....

Does this prove that witches are real? NO
Does this prove that god is real? NO

[bryant.coleman]

Same goes for other stories and superstitions, including "miracles". A group of nomads telling each other stories around a fire 2000 years ago don't prove anything. There is still zero evidence.

In Africa and Asia, missionary groups (both Muslim and Christian) are using these "miracles" to convert adherents of other religions to their faith. There are modern day miracles as well... such as "blood" coming out from the eyes of the statue of virgin Mary in South India and fragrance spreading from tombs of Sufi saints in Pakistan.

[BADecker]

Same goes for other stories and superstitions, including "miracles". A group of nomads telling each other stories around a fire 2000 years ago don't prove anything. There is still zero evidence.

In Africa and Asia, missionary groups (both Muslim and Christian) are using these "miracles" to convert adherents of other religions to their faith. There are modern day miracles as well... such as "blood" coming out from the eyes of the statue of virgin Mary in South India and fragrance spreading from tombs of Sufi saints in Pakistan.

Jesus speaking:

And if I drive out demons by Beelzebub, by whom do your people drive them out? So then, they will be your judges. But if I drive out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.

Jesus speaking:

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

Jesus speaking:

For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect—if that were possible.

[groll]

I do not know why you are an atheist.  You are the one who could answer that to yourself.  But the fact that you are thinking about God maybe He is calling your attention.  Maybe He is starting to introduce Himself to you by way of citing things like the one you listed.  There must be a special thing that you really took time to list it all down.  Maybe you are intrigued and curious.  Best way to know Him more.

[BADecker]

I do not know why you are an atheist.  You are the one who could answer that to yourself.  But the fact that you are thinking about God maybe He is calling your attention.  Maybe He is starting to introduce Himself to you by way of citing things like the one you listed.  There must be a special thing that you really took time to list it all down.  Maybe you are intrigued and curious.  Best way to know Him more.

See here to find out why atheists are atheists - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1054513.msg15965291#msg15965291.

[Trading]

One of the main conclusions on the OP is that the burden of showing evidence is on the believers side.

Well, reasonable believers are the first to recognize that believing is a matter of faith, not of evidence or science.

So, they believe in god, like anyone of us can believe that he is immortal: out of will to believe or out of fear.

Others might have this power over you: making you believe in invisible things just because they believe on them.

[BADecker]

One of the main conclusions on the OP is that the burden of showing evidence is on the believers side.

Well, reasonable believers are the first to recognize that believing is a matter of faith, not of evidence or science.

So, they believe in god, like anyone of us can believe that he is immortal: out of will to believe or out of fear.

Others might have this power over you: making you believe in invisible things just because they believe on them.

Why the OP is mistaken - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1662153.msg16917964#msg16917964

[Atheist]

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

Epicurus

[Dizaster2015]

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

Epicurus

I agree with you. Ministers of different religions are trying to fool as many people as possible to get them more money. Religion is "opium" for the people. Not only harm to health and consciousness.

[BADecker]

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

Epicurus

I agree with you. Ministers of different religions are trying to fool as many people as possible to get them more money. Religion is "opium" for the people. Not only harm to health and consciousness.

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.

Not only is God willing and able to prevent evil, but He has done it. When each person dies, the evil is gone from his/her life forever.

You simply don't understand the depth to which God place people in this universe. People have God within them. It is the only way we can be alive as we are. Otherwise we would be like the animals - complex robots. So, how else can God stop the evil other than destroying Himself. This is why Jesus God came onto the picture, so that God could die, without destroying God entirely.

You simply are ignorant of what is going on.


Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

Evil comes from the free will God has placed into the universe. Satan has free will. People have free will. Both have used their free will to contradict God. Yet, you can't contradict God because God is greater than all, and is the One Who is holding everything in place, including the lives of all people. This is why Jesus God was stretched all out of shape in His death on the cross. He made it possible for God to remain in mankind so that mankind could remain alive.


This shows that God is not only God, but He is God Almighty. You can't change God's purpose for us and for Himself. At best you can only destroy yourself by not trusting in Jesus salvation.

Turn to faith in Jesus God while you still have time.

[qwik2learn]

Everyone has a different path to take in life. In the later posts of the Atheism and Health thread I explained my path and the logic that led me to reject atheism as false. I wish you good fortune on your journey.

I think you would agree that the so-called "waves" (of course, no empirical evidence on them...) can't explain why something that you say are a simple receptor (the brain) can in the end affect not only the transmission but also its author, the "soul".

I guess it must be a coincidence.

This man had virtually no brain and the soul was unaffected. His soul was unaffected by a total deficit of his "simple receptor" (the brain).

I suggest you check out CoinCube's thread again; CoinCube and I are going to continue bringing important details and facts to your attention.

In conflict with established medical thinking, there are literally hundreds of cases where people have either been born with an underdeveloped brain, or have had large areas of their brain damaged in an accident, but are still able to function normally.

Such anomalies were partly explained when it was discovered that we have the ability to relocate particular brain functions to other areas of the brain.  Exactly how this works is still beyond modern science, and so the ability lies in limbo between accepted medical fact and that which is still regarded as nonsense.  However, it may be that this discovery is only the tip of the iceberg, for there are people whose very existence seems to indicate that our brains are nowhere near as vital to our survival as we might think.

[qwik2learn]

   If there was a "soul" independent of the brain and the brain was just the link between the body and the "soul", all diseases/damages of the brain wouldn't affect our ability to still be aware and to think.

How clever of you to require as proof of the soul that ALL brain deficiencies must be healed by the spirit. That allows you to ignore as evidence for the soul the math genius who had almost no brain!

After such damage, such a brain would not have any ability to still be aware and think, yet it still functions just fine!

Later, a colleague at Sheffield University became aware of a young man with a larger than normal head.  He was referred to Lorber even though it had not caused him any difficulty.  Although the boy had an IQ of 126 and had a first class honours degree in mathematics, he had "virtually no brain".  A noninvasive measurement of radio density known as CAT scan showed the boy's skull was lined with a thin layer of brain cells to a millimeter in thickness.  The rest of his skull was filled with cerebrospinal fluid.  The young man continues a normal life with the exception of his knowledge that he has no brain.

http://flatrock.org.nz/topics/science/is_the_brain_really_necessary.htm


OP has made this claim about brain deficiency in order to support the claim that there is no evidence for life after death (#5), but I see that the OP has removed the part of his post where he made the claim that "everything seems to force [you] to conclude that you were nothing for an eternity and are going to be nothing again for another". Actually, I do not see any evidence or reasons favoring a belief in human life being "nothing for an eternity" both before and after human life because obviously nothing can come from nothing. On the other hand, there is actually a lot of scientific evidence supporting near-death experiences and the afterlife.
Here is my reply to that claim made by OP from earlier:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1424793.msg14425062#msg14425062

[Daniel91]

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

Epicurus

God gave us free will.
It means that we have capacity to do good or evil.
If God prevent us to do something, he block our free will and freedom.
Without our freedom we will be just like robots and God don't want it.
So, God have no choice but to allow both good and evil in this world, so that people can learn from their suffering and return to him, like in the story of ''Prodigal son'' in the Bible.

[stats]

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

Epicurus

God gave us free will.
It means that we have capacity to do good or evil.
If God prevent us to do something, he block our free will and freedom.
Without our freedom we will be just like robots and God don't want it.
So, God have no choice but to allow both good and evil in this world, so that people can learn from their suffering and return to him, like in the story of ''Prodigal son'' in the Bible.

Only 2 problems.....

1. God doesn't exist!
2. Why are you only following individual aspects of the bible? I can point out more comments from the bible if you like to see if you are following them.

[Cherry Girl]

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

Epicurus

God gave us free will.
It means that we have capacity to do good or evil.
If God prevent us to do something, he block our free will and freedom.
Without our freedom we will be just like robots and God don't want it.
So, God have no choice but to allow both good and evil in this world, so that people can learn from their suffering and return to him, like in the story of ''Prodigal son'' in the Bible.

I disagree with you. Freedom and liberty God gives. And not just because it is not, but because it is people take themselves. Very often pay for it with their lives and health. Where to watch your God?

[BADecker]

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

Epicurus

God gave us free will.
It means that we have capacity to do good or evil.
If God prevent us to do something, he block our free will and freedom.
Without our freedom we will be just like robots and God don't want it.
So, God have no choice but to allow both good and evil in this world, so that people can learn from their suffering and return to him, like in the story of ''Prodigal son'' in the Bible.

I disagree with you. Freedom and liberty God gives. And not just because it is not, but because it is people take themselves. Very often pay for it with their lives and health. Where to watch your God?

God acts with us in all our freedom and liberty He gave us.

Everything acts according to cause and effect. This means that everything is programmed, and that there is no free will.

But, God, Himself, holds open a tiny bit of freedom in us regarding how much we believe in Him. Then He regulates our lives in ways that match our faith in Him. We think that it was our free will, when what it was, was, God interpreting our faith in Him, and adjusting our lives according to our faith.