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Author Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com  (Read 3009300 times)
texaslabrat
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October 31, 2013, 09:04:21 PM
 #19301


A bunch of naive, idealistic blather


The first thing you fail to understand is that this is a business, not a charity.  Get that through your head and the rest of it will make sense.

If you want to buy a miner for me, I will happily point it at any pool of your choosing.   As long as I'm spending MY money on equipment, then I'll point MY equipment on whatever fucking pool I see fit.  If smaller pools want to attract more miners, they should get their asses in gear and improve the pools to make them more attractive for use.  Things like extended stats, DDoS protection, and consistently working payouts (I'm looking at you, Eligius).

If you are so concerned about decentralization, I sure hope you are solo mining.  If you can't walk the walk, then stop trying to talk the talk.
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October 31, 2013, 09:07:18 PM
 #19302


hit the reset button 5x, count to 5, hit it 5x again.


Can't you just hold the reset button for 5 seconds and the bright light will flash to do a reset and not what u mentioned above?  That's how i was doing it.

That's what the manual said to do, that's what I do....    Smiley

ah, never read the manual.  =)    Holding does work though.
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October 31, 2013, 09:13:53 PM
 #19303

Hi folks

I'm the author of BertMod and I'd like to mention that some people seems to get a bit confused by the output of BertMod.

So I wrote a quick explanation :
http://forum.kncminer.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/6183-bertmod-0-2-unofficial-firmware-mod-feedback-thread?p=13503#post13503

In short :

- Sometimes BertMod doesn't detect any DC/DC module, it can happen if the DC/DC modules are purely analog and not digital, this is NOT a problem, the boards will be working as expected. It's just that they are using a type of DC/DC module that I don't support. Hey, after all BertMod is unofficial, sometimes it doesn't work Smiley

- It is normal to get some "No DC/DC module detected". KnC can change the number of DC/DC modules per board (initially they used 8 then moved to 4 as 4 was totally enough to power the ASIC). As a result, "No DC/DC module detected" is NOT an error, just some info to let you know that there is no DC/DC module in that slot, and that is fine Smiley

When I wrote BertMod i wanted to give people extra info about their miner. I didn't want to confuse anyone. Maybe I should have wrote that explanation immediately. Anyway, now I hope it's clear ! If not, let me know.

Happy mining,
uski

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DPoS
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October 31, 2013, 09:17:45 PM
 #19304


A bunch of naive, idealistic blather


The first thing you fail to understand is that this is a business, not a charity.  Get that through your head and the rest of it will make sense.

If you want to buy a miner for me, I will happily point it at any pool of your choosing.   As long as I'm spending MY money on equipment, then I'll point MY equipment on whatever fucking pool I see fit.  If smaller pools want to attract more miners, they should get their asses in gear and improve the pools to make them more attractive for use.  Things like extended stats, DDoS protection, and consistently working payouts (I'm looking at you, Eligius).

If you are so concerned about decentralization, I sure hope you are solo mining.  If you can't walk the walk, then stop trying to talk the talk.

the real problem to his point is not that there are a small group of elite that control and abuse power, but that there is an endless line of similarly wired people waiting to replace them if given the chance

America's forefathers were an outlier, not the norm.   It didn't even last 200 years.   1776 till when JFK was shot.  No turning back now.


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October 31, 2013, 09:19:33 PM
 #19305

The pool provides you with a block header to work on.  You double-hash the block header iteratively while incrementing the nonce, and return any results that are of higher difficulty than the pool difficulty to the pool.  If one of those results happens to also be higher difficulty than the network difficulty, you have solved the block for the pool.  The pool does not do any of the calculations associated with solving a block, so I don't see how you think the pool "solved" the block.

Yeah, but guess who got the 25 BTC + fees?
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October 31, 2013, 09:20:17 PM
 #19306

Hi folks

I'm the author of BertMod and I'd like to mention that some people seems to get a bit confused by the output of BertMod.

So I wrote a quick explanation :
http://forum.kncminer.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/6183-bertmod-0-2-unofficial-firmware-mod-feedback-thread?p=13503#post13503

In short :

- Sometimes BertMod doesn't detect any DC/DC module, it can happen if the DC/DC modules are purely analog and not digital, this is NOT a problem, the boards will be working as expected. It's just that they are using a type of DC/DC module that I don't support. Hey, after all BertMod is unofficial, sometimes it doesn't work Smiley


Happy mining,
uski


What of VRMs that show < 1 amp output?  Those are the 'dies off' that are plaguing many folks

Thanks for bringing the tool out so early, it has helped everyone troubleshoot their many issues

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October 31, 2013, 09:22:35 PM
 #19307


A bunch of naive, idealistic blather


The first thing you fail to understand is that this is a business, not a charity.  Get that through your head and the rest of it will make sense.

If you want to buy a miner for me, I will happily point it at any pool of your choosing.   As long as I'm spending MY money on equipment, then I'll point MY equipment on whatever fucking pool I see fit.  If smaller pools want to attract more miners, they should get their asses in gear and improve the pools to make them more attractive for use.  Things like extended stats, DDoS protection, and consistently working payouts (I'm looking at you, Eligius).

If you are so concerned about decentralization, I sure hope you are solo mining.  If you can't walk the walk, then stop trying to talk the talk.

Yes sir, I solo mine.  I also have helped build a considerable number of pools.  I absolutely "walk the walk" Mr. business man.  I also mine with an assortment of just about every ASIC ever produced since the GPU/FGPA farms were killed off; to include a growing number of KnC pieces.

I have no problem making money, or forming a business around it.  But carelessly killing the cow you are milking is a poor business model.

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October 31, 2013, 09:29:58 PM
 #19308


A bunch of naive, idealistic blather


The first thing you fail to understand is that this is a business, not a charity.  Get that through your head and the rest of it will make sense.

If you want to buy a miner for me, I will happily point it at any pool of your choosing.   As long as I'm spending MY money on equipment, then I'll point MY equipment on whatever fucking pool I see fit.  If smaller pools want to attract more miners, they should get their asses in gear and improve the pools to make them more attractive for use.  Things like extended stats, DDoS protection, and consistently working payouts (I'm looking at you, Eligius).

If you are so concerned about decentralization, I sure hope you are solo mining.  If you can't walk the walk, then stop trying to talk the talk.

Yes sir, I solo mine.  I also have helped build a considerable number of pools.  I absolutely "walk the walk" Mr. business man.  I also mine with an assortment of just about every ASIC ever produced since the GPU/FGPA farms were killed off; to include a growing number of KnC pieces.

I have no problem making money, or forming a business around it.  But carelessly killing the cow you are milking is a poor business model.

Good for you...I assume you mean that you ONLY solo mine?  

However, you fail to realize that without people making a business out of this (and that means maximizing their profit wherever possible without artificial constraints), there would be no demand and thus no value in bitcoin outside of a hobby (eg 10,000 BTC pizza).  Lets see how many folks would buy multi-thousand-dollar asic miners "to secure the network" if bitcoin was worth less than a penny a piece, yet the difficulty was current levels.  Answer:  A few idealistic zealots who would then be capable of 51% attacks on a whim.  You can't have one without the other (ie security without business demand).  So again, I point to your idealism and naivety in failing to understand how this all works in the macro level.  If you want to donate to the network to keep it secure..bravo.  But without people trying to make money out of it, it's just a technical curiosity burning electricity at a prodigious rate.  You can look at any number of also-ran alt coins for a real-world example.  There needs to be reason to have people pour hundreds of millions of dollars of funds into bitcoins and the associated ecosystem...telling people they shouldn't be trying to maximize returns on that investment is not going to help if the system is ever to be taken seriously and used as a mainstream instrument of value storage and exchange.

Further...individuals using "big pools" is hardly "killing the cow".  There are no pools that are capable of a 51% attack..in fact pools such as BTCGuild specifically implement policies to discourage growth that approaches 51%.  And again, I point to the need for other pools to step up their game if they want to be relavent.  This is a business, pure and simple..and with business comes competition.  Unlike most businesses, the barrier to entry into the bitcoin world is almost zero so there is always room for new entrants to jump into the game if they are willing to provide a good product.  Rather, telling people that they shouldn't be trying their best to make money from something that should be integrated into the global market economy is killing the cow from a perception basis.  If bitcoin can't play by the rules of a vicious free-market economy, then it will die no matter what anyone else wants for it and nobody outside the hobbyists will ever take it seriously.  The end game is integration into the world economy...if it can't hack it there there is no need for it to exist.  You are not going to remake the world economy in another image to fit bitcoin...sorry to tell ya.   In other words, if special "kid gloves" are needed to enable bitcoin to survive that relies on the altruism of the bitcoin community...it won't survive on its own and it is no better than a centrally-controlled fiat currency that is protected from "the big bad market" by its issuing government.  If bitcoin is actually fit to be a decentralized currency, then it must be able to operate with out special considerations from its participants pure and simple otherwise its demise is guaranteed.

So again, if there are concerns about over centralization...get people to make alternate pools that don't suck so that natural market forces fix the issue and not special pleas to "think of the children!" in order to head off any potential 51% issues.  If you want to direct some of your activism energy somewhere useful..there it is.
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October 31, 2013, 10:02:47 PM
 #19309

How about seanrarey takes his offtopic to it's own thread?
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October 31, 2013, 10:05:38 PM
 #19310

How about seanrarey takes his offtopic to it's own thread?

+1
I dislike being told what to think and what to do with my own money. Let's keep it KNC and disagree about something relevent. Smiley
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October 31, 2013, 10:17:09 PM
 #19311

The pool provides you with a block header to work on.  You double-hash the block header iteratively while incrementing the nonce, and return any results that are of higher difficulty than the pool difficulty to the pool.  If one of those results happens to also be higher difficulty than the network difficulty, you have solved the block for the pool.  The pool does not do any of the calculations associated with solving a block, so I don't see how you think the pool "solved" the block.

Yeah, but guess who got the 25 BTC + fees?

That is not relevant to the question of who "solved" the block.

Libertarians:  Diligently plotting to take over the world and leave you alone.
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October 31, 2013, 10:26:33 PM
 #19312


A bunch of naive, idealistic blather


The first thing you fail to understand is that this is a business, not a charity.  Get that through your head and the rest of it will make sense.

If you want to buy a miner for me, I will happily point it at any pool of your choosing.   As long as I'm spending MY money on equipment, then I'll point MY equipment on whatever fucking pool I see fit.  If smaller pools want to attract more miners, they should get their asses in gear and improve the pools to make them more attractive for use.  Things like extended stats, DDoS protection, and consistently working payouts (I'm looking at you, Eligius).

If you are so concerned about decentralization, I sure hope you are solo mining.  If you can't walk the walk, then stop trying to talk the talk.

... a comment on this post.  I am not sure a post could have been more skillfully crafted to drive home my point.

This next comment is not meant to be inflammatory, although I understand if you take is so.  It is meant for you to take into account, as a data point while making and employing your business plan.

Centralization is the enemy of this experiment.  "Business men" that mine for profit without regard for the network are not a friend to the experiment if their efforts result in too much centralization (usually a goal of a for-profit company).

Those of us that see this as a threat (such as ASICminer & a couple of other Chinese companies) to the eco system, are working hard to drive up the diff with de-centralized hashing in an effort to make your business less-viable.  The hope is that this will cause fewer people to sink huge sums of money into centralized operations such as yours if the returns are simply not there.

I hope it works.  I am doing my part.

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October 31, 2013, 10:33:49 PM
 #19313

That is not relevant to the question of who "solved" the block.

Why the question is not relevant if who receives the reward is who supposedly "solves" the block?

Perhaps you are confusing what "solving" means in the metaphorical concept of "mining"?

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Block

Quote
Because there is a reward of brand new Bitcoins for solving each block, every block also contains a record of which Bitcoin address is entitled to receive the reward. This record is known as a generation transaction, or a coinbase transaction, and is always the first transaction appearing in every block.
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October 31, 2013, 10:41:01 PM
 #19314

That is not relevant to the question of who "solved" the block.

Why the question is not relevant if who receives the reward is who supposedly "solves" the block?

Perhaps you are confusing what "solving" means in the metaphorical concept of "mining"?

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Block

Quote
Because there is a reward of brand new Bitcoins for solving each block, every block also contains a record of which Bitcoin address is entitled to receive the reward. This record is known as a generation transaction, or a coinbase transaction, and is always the first transaction appearing in every block.

You must be fun at parties  Roll Eyes

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augustocroppo
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October 31, 2013, 10:41:29 PM
 #19315

Centralization is the enemy of this experiment.  "Business men" that mine for profit without regard for the network are not a friend to the experiment if their efforts result in too much centralization (usually a goal of a for-profit company).

Centralization of what?

 Huh
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October 31, 2013, 10:43:52 PM
 #19316

That is not relevant to the question of who "solved" the block.

Why the question is not relevant if who receives the reward is who supposedly "solves" the block?

Perhaps you are confusing what "solving" means in the metaphorical concept of "mining"?

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Block

Quote
Because there is a reward of brand new Bitcoins for solving each block, every block also contains a record of which Bitcoin address is entitled to receive the reward. This record is known as a generation transaction, or a coinbase transaction, and is always the first transaction appearing in every block.

Why don't you just admit you were wrong, and stop this nonsense?  It is clear that who gets the reward for a block, and who "solves" it are two different questions.  In pool mining, a group of people agree to share block rewards regardless of which individual miner solved the block.  That agreement obviously has no bearing on who actually solved a given block.

Libertarians:  Diligently plotting to take over the world and leave you alone.
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October 31, 2013, 10:52:21 PM
 #19317

You must be fun at parties  Roll Eyes

Completely!

 Cool

I am excitingly waiting for the next one to gossip and laugh about companies which fails to deliver a hardware with a functional firmware to their customers. The best part of the joke is when I disclose the monetary cost to obtain such hardware. People literally ROFL!

You know, in Brazil people say that "who laughs last, laughs better".
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October 31, 2013, 10:56:16 PM
 #19318

Centralization is the enemy of this experiment.  "Business men" that mine for profit without regard for the network are not a friend to the experiment if their efforts result in too much centralization (usually a goal of a for-profit company).

Centralization of what?

 Huh

The reason this is not off-topic, is because this forum is about mining.

If you are mining, especially with powerful units, you should understand:

1.  The decentralized nature, design and intent of the BTC network.

2.  The cause and effect of a 51% attack.

3.  The responsibility of miners and pools in maintaining balance.

Don't take my word for it, do your own research.

The argument was made that the large pools have checks put in place to mitigate such a disaster.  Simply making that statement is an acknowledgement that they have the _ability_ to tip the scale (hence the countermeasure).  Why would you or I ever want to give one person or entity that much power and control over _our_ Bitcoin network?  Has anyone here ever heard of a countermeasure failing (BP Oil in the Gulf)?

There are so many viable pools to choose from, and if you are a business it is more profitable to build your own pool (fees go to you).  If you pack heavy hash power, which most in this forum do, it makes so much more sense to  be a part of the solution rather then a part of the problem.

The irony is that in the end the pay is the same.

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October 31, 2013, 10:56:22 PM
 #19319


A bunch of naive, idealistic blather


The first thing you fail to understand is that this is a business, not a charity.  Get that through your head and the rest of it will make sense.

If you want to buy a miner for me, I will happily point it at any pool of your choosing.   As long as I'm spending MY money on equipment, then I'll point MY equipment on whatever fucking pool I see fit.  If smaller pools want to attract more miners, they should get their asses in gear and improve the pools to make them more attractive for use.  Things like extended stats, DDoS protection, and consistently working payouts (I'm looking at you, Eligius).

If you are so concerned about decentralization, I sure hope you are solo mining.  If you can't walk the walk, then stop trying to talk the talk.

the real problem to his point is not that there are a small group of elite that control and abuse power, but that there is an endless line of similarly wired people waiting to replace them if given the chance

America's forefathers were an outlier, not the norm.   It didn't even last 200 years.   1776 till when JFK was shot.  No turning back now.


More like 1774 to 1791. The US constitution has all the seeds of tyranny built into it, with some superficial nods to individualism and liberty. The articles of Confederation were vastly superior precisely BECAUSE they ceded very little power to the central organization.

That being said, I think I have technical grounds to take exception with SeanRaney's post. I understand the anger.

However, the large pools are still decentralized in a real sense, as they are completely dependent on miners actually going there. While I would personally rather mine in a smaller pool for many of the reasons stated, or even solo mine if I had sufficient hash power, this doesn't change the nature of the beast. If a pool operator misbehaves badly, it's a three second fix. And then the huge pool becomes no pool. Pools do not set the regulations or the limits of bitcoin, they merely aggregate the results of multiple miners. Much like "the internet" is an aggregate of every computing device connected to it. If one unit fails, many are able to take it's place.

Where I see a bigger weakness is that it is currently difficult to find detailed information about setting up and operating a pool. This in itself is not egregious, but it is frustrating. In the age of ASIC chips, I would think that "out of the box" poolservers would be a good thing, as local clubs and even some of the larger purchasers could easily set up their own pools and diversify the network very far. This in itself would quickly alleviate the perception of pools centralizing the network.

On to the more philosophical points of his post, I believe very strongly that people DO NOT need to be ruled, but DO desire it to a greater or lesser extent. I am an anarchist. I am an individualist. I actually do quite well in the absence of humans, so I perhaps have a different perspective than most.

What I have seen, over and over again, is people who ought to know better clamoring for some rule because of what somebody else did that offended/frightened/titillated them. That the same rule can and will be used against them doesn't seem to occur to them. Especially given the widespread worship of democracy, this is a great argument AGAINST rulers. Rulers care not for the wellbeing of the ruled, except to the extent that said ruled are useful or useable by the rulers. They want you cowering in fear or waving a bloody flag. Resist that primitive urge to give in to the loud voice, and your life improves immeasurably. The collective good is served best by ignoring it and concentrating on your own success. That this is chaotic and full of squabbling is meaningless. Most things worth doing are going to be difficult. Liberty is not cheap nor easy, but it is rewarding.
I do not see the greed of short sighted miners as a problem, except to the miners themselves. Unprincipled greed and poor understanding of economic realities means that most of the really greedy and unthinking miners will drop by the wayside when marginal profits are on par with reality, whereas those with longer vision will ride out the hills and valleys and strengthen the network BECAUSE OF their profit seeking. While individuals will both fail and succeed, the paradigm itself will only fail if mining becomes the sole focus of the bitcoin world. If instead, it is promoted and actively used as currency, then the miners will win, the people who use bitcoin will win, and the experiment will succeed.

I too think that a lot of miners focus too much on short term positive ROI, thinking (or at least posting) things like the miners will never pay for themselves unless they breakeven in the next two weeks or two months or whatever. I think that two YEARS would be a better way to figure it, as that's pretty realistic for the level of investment we're looking at. It would also allow your plan to be more flexible, folding near term income into more hashpower and more efficient miners as they become available. This is not a zero sum game, never was, never will be. At some point, if the experiment is to succeed in the long term, then the transactional side (of which miners are a vital component) will vastly outstrip the generation of coins via solving blocks. And frankly, when it happens (if it happens) it will happen very quickly. The world's reserve currencies are openly failing. The central bankers are putting truckloads of band-aids on a sucking chest wound and hoping the patient won't bleed to death before they can come up with a new scam. It's not working, and they know it. They just don't know how to break the cycle of madness (doing the same thing over and over again while expecting different results). Bitcoin, due to it's inherent properties, is one such solution. But if it's to succeed, it cannot change fundamentally, and that means that those who mine NEED to learn long term planning. That most will not doesn't hurt the experiment, but it can very definitely hurt the individual miners.

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October 31, 2013, 10:58:04 PM
 #19320


A bunch of naive, idealistic blather


The first thing you fail to understand is that this is a business, not a charity.  Get that through your head and the rest of it will make sense.

If you want to buy a miner for me, I will happily point it at any pool of your choosing.   As long as I'm spending MY money on equipment, then I'll point MY equipment on whatever fucking pool I see fit.  If smaller pools want to attract more miners, they should get their asses in gear and improve the pools to make them more attractive for use.  Things like extended stats, DDoS protection, and consistently working payouts (I'm looking at you, Eligius).

If you are so concerned about decentralization, I sure hope you are solo mining.  If you can't walk the walk, then stop trying to talk the talk.

Yes sir, I solo mine.  I also have helped build a considerable number of pools.  I absolutely "walk the walk" Mr. business man.  I also mine with an assortment of just about every ASIC ever produced since the GPU/FGPA farms were killed off; to include a growing number of KnC pieces.

I have no problem making money, or forming a business around it.  But carelessly killing the cow you are milking is a poor business model.

Since my last reply kind of came off as an attack, I will balance it by saying that I agree one hundred percent with this post.

Buy Bitcoins with Paypal, Credit card, or other methods. Send me a PM or a text to 208-451-2665.
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