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Author Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com  (Read 3012567 times)
Phoenix1969
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November 02, 2013, 03:12:02 AM
 #19441

I'm quite happy with the products I got from KNC, and Quite happy they weren't later than a couple lousy weeks...
In the 2 weeks I've had my machines running, they have made back more than 1/3rd my origonal
$3897.60 x 3(saturns+shipping) = $11,692.80
I've earned 22 BTC x XBT(198) = $4,356.00
which is over 37% of the original purchase price, including shipping.
(not to mention the 63 Namecoin I also earned)
I have no doubt they will reach ROI, and beyond...
Thank-You  KNC


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stripykitteh
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November 02, 2013, 03:22:33 AM
 #19442

I'm quite happy with the products I got from KNC, and Quite happy they weren't later than a couple lousy weeks...
In the 2 weeks I've had my machines running, they have made back more than 1/3rd my origonal
$3897.60 x 3(saturns) = $11,692.80
I've earned 22 BTC x XBT(198) = $4,356.00
which is over 37% of the original purchase price, plus shipping.
(not to mention the 63 Namecoin I also earned)
I have no doubt they will reach ROI, and beyond...
Thank-You  KNC


Are you also selling your BTC for fiat? If not, to get a completely honest answer you should be doing your calcs in what you would have paid in BTC when you ordered. BTC has appreciated significantly against the USD since you would have ordered.

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Phoenix1969
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November 02, 2013, 03:26:39 AM
 #19443

I'm quite happy with the products I got from KNC, and Quite happy they weren't later than a couple lousy weeks...
In the 2 weeks I've had my machines running, they have made back more than 1/3rd my origonal
$3897.60 x 3(saturns) = $11,692.80
I've earned 22 BTC x XBT(198) = $4,356.00
which is over 37% of the original purchase price, plus shipping.
(not to mention the 63 Namecoin I also earned)
I have no doubt they will reach ROI, and beyond...
Thank-You  KNC


Are you also selling your BTC for fiat? If not, to get a completely honest answer you should be doing your calcs in what you would have paid in BTC when you ordered. BTC has appreciated significantly against the USD since you would have ordered.
I paid in Fiat, so that's as "honest" as it gets...
I even used the xbt price, when I can still sell @ Gox!
So, stick that in your pipe, and smoke it!   Grin  Grin  Grin
I actually plan on holding my BTC for $2,000.00/btc   hehe
But yeah... I see what you're gettin' at...


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DPoS
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November 02, 2013, 03:40:40 AM
 #19444


Are you also selling your BTC for fiat? If not, to get a completely honest answer you should be doing your calcs in what you would have paid in BTC when you ordered. BTC has appreciated significantly against the USD since you would have ordered.

this dogma will never die here..   I guess it is a clash of old btc-in-hand miners vs the new credit-in-hand miners

the new credit-in-hand miners take your equation and find out they would have paid 0btc for miners since they wouldn't get a miner if they had to try to buy btc on credit first..  would be a total waste of fees if possible, so they just keep the equation in $$$ and factor in the increase of btc value as part of their investment.

I'll say it again.. for a lot of the new miners, there is no 'if you bought it with btc' or 'if you just bought btc'

are all the old miners myopic??  staring at hashings screens for 2-3 years probably does that

~~BTC~~GAMBIT~~BTC~~Play Boardgames for Bitcoins!!~~BTC~~GAMBIT~~BTC~~ Something I say help? Donate BTC! 1KN1K1xStzsgfYxdArSX4PEjFfcLEuYhid
Syke
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November 02, 2013, 03:41:19 AM
 #19445

I'm quite happy with the products I got from KNC, and Quite happy they weren't later than a couple lousy weeks...
In the 2 weeks I've had my machines running, they have made back more than 1/3rd my origonal
$3897.60 x 3(saturns+shipping) = $11,692.80
I've earned 22 BTC x XBT(198) = $4,356.00
which is over 37% of the original purchase price, including shipping.
(not to mention the 63 Namecoin I also earned)
I have no doubt they will reach ROI, and beyond...
Thank-You  KNC


Now calculate how much fiat/BTC you would have if you would have simply purchased bitcoins directly instead of pre-ordering a miner that creates bitcoins very slowly.

Buy & Hold
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November 02, 2013, 03:44:56 AM
 #19446

Once again, I do not hold any grudge against KNC but if they want to stay in the business of mining (repetitive sales) they'd better not insult my intelligence and move forward by stating the total GH/s they sold so far. If not, as a reasonable individual, I will not buy from them again and invest directly in BTC. At least I know my risk there....
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November 02, 2013, 03:47:31 AM
 #19447


Now calculate how much fiat/BTC you would have if you would have simply purchased bitcoins directly instead of pre-ordering a miner that creates bitcoins very slowly.


lulz

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=170332.msg3461495#msg3461495

~~BTC~~GAMBIT~~BTC~~Play Boardgames for Bitcoins!!~~BTC~~GAMBIT~~BTC~~ Something I say help? Donate BTC! 1KN1K1xStzsgfYxdArSX4PEjFfcLEuYhid
stripykitteh
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November 02, 2013, 03:53:58 AM
 #19448


Are you also selling your BTC for fiat? If not, to get a completely honest answer you should be doing your calcs in what you would have paid in BTC when you ordered. BTC has appreciated significantly against the USD since you would have ordered.

this dogma will never die here..   I guess it is a clash of old btc-in-hand miners vs the new credit-in-hand miners

the new credit-in-hand miners take your equation and find out they would have paid 0btc for miners since they wouldn't get a miner if they had to try to buy btc on credit first..  would be a total waste of fees if possible, so they just keep the equation in $$$ and factor in the increase of btc value as part of their investment.

I'll say it again.. for a lot of the new miners, there is no 'if you bought it with btc' or 'if you just bought btc'

are all the old miners myopic??  staring at hashings screens for 2-3 years probably does that

So if the credit-in-hand view is correct, does that mean if you invest in mining hardware and the btc:usd exchange rate falls, should you blame it on the hardware as well? I see the btc-in-hand approach as having value because it reveals to you exactly where you made your profit (or loss). Certainly once you own some bitcoins you should be doing all subsequent calculations in bitcoin, to work out whether new hardware purchases are worth it or not.

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Phoenix1969
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November 02, 2013, 03:56:40 AM
 #19449

I'm quite happy with the products I got from KNC, and Quite happy they weren't later than a couple lousy weeks...
In the 2 weeks I've had my machines running, they have made back more than 1/3rd my origonal
$3897.60 x 3(saturns+shipping) = $11,692.80
I've earned 22 BTC x XBT(198) = $4,356.00
which is over 37% of the original purchase price, including shipping.
(not to mention the 63 Namecoin I also earned)
I have no doubt they will reach ROI, and beyond...
Thank-You  KNC


Now calculate how much fiat/BTC you would have if you would have simply purchased bitcoins directly instead of pre-ordering a miner that creates bitcoins very slowly.
That's not mining, that's called speculation investing.
although its similar in nature, because your gold is only worth what people will pay fir it...yeah..
Sure, BTC could have easily been ten bucks...
But facts are facts, and hindsight won't get you anywhere.
Do you think people who bought BFL products are turning their machines off?
Why?
BTC speculation, sure.
okay, now the question becomes .... btc generated * price sold for.. so I can see your point... this is a viscous circle...hehe

I guess my point is nobody's likely to loose out on their KNC investment.


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dwdoc
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- - -Caveat Aleo- - -


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November 02, 2013, 05:12:13 AM
 #19450

responsibility of KNC was in taking unlimited amount from orders.

only limited amount of boxes during preorder is the way, how deliver positive ROI to investors.

When I purchased from them I don't remember them saying they were going to limit their sales to protect my ROI. What other company is doing that?

I don't want to join in this argument but to be honest, they kind of did... Wink
https://www.kncminer.com/news/news-24

Quote
"We are also aware that we need our customers to have a return on their devices in order to purchase form us again. With the scale of the supply chains, agreements and factories we have access to, we need to be cautious we don’t ship too many devices and therefore reduce the return to our customers."


But then they put this caveat in at the end:

Quote
We would like to state that If any of our competitors continues to add large amounts of hashing power to the network during December, January or February. We will continue to release our devices as competitively priced as we can to protect our customers share of the network.

Seeing as "large" is a relative term, it means whatever KnC want it to mean; therefore the whole statement is meaningless. Releasing more devices might protect their customers total share of the network, but individual customers don't care about that of course, they only care about their own personal share of the network. Individual KnC customers are competing for a share of the network with other KnC customers as much as they are with miners using devices from other manufacturers.

The whole statement is spin designed to make them look like nice guys while they go ahead and maximize their profit, which is what you should expect them to do anyway.

Exactly correct.  Also that "network protection" statement was made on 7/18/13 (6 weeks after they started taking orders) so all the people with units in hand knew nothing about that.
arousedrhino
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November 02, 2013, 05:43:15 AM
 #19451

I'm quite happy with the products I got from KNC, and Quite happy they weren't later than a couple lousy weeks...
In the 2 weeks I've had my machines running, they have made back more than 1/3rd my origonal
$3897.60 x 3(saturns+shipping) = $11,692.80
I've earned 22 BTC x XBT(198) = $4,356.00
which is over 37% of the original purchase price, including shipping.
(not to mention the 63 Namecoin I also earned)
I have no doubt they will reach ROI, and beyond...
Thank-You  KNC


Now calculate how much fiat/BTC you would have if you would have simply purchased bitcoins directly instead of pre-ordering a miner that creates bitcoins very slowly.

Now tell me how to purchase 8K in BTC with a credit card? Any idea's?

Buying a miner with a credit card is a lot easier and more fun than just buying BTC. You might not make as much money as if you just bought BTC but who cares its an easy fun way to get BTC and support the network.
AussieHash
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November 02, 2013, 06:31:25 AM
 #19452

Now tell me how to purchase 8K in BTC with a credit card? Any idea's?

Buying a miner with a credit card is a lot easier and more fun than just buying BTC. You might not make as much money as if you just bought BTC but who cares its an easy fun way to get BTC and support the network.

Actually it is not difficult at all, despite the recent internal WU presentation in reddit

https://localbitcoins.com/buy-bitcoins-online/western-union/

You can buy $5000/day using money in minutes with your credit card
rampalija
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November 02, 2013, 06:43:25 AM
 #19453

Now tell me how to purchase 8K in BTC with a credit card? Any idea's?

Buying a miner with a credit card is a lot easier and more fun than just buying BTC. You might not make as much money as if you just bought BTC but who cares its an easy fun way to get BTC and support the network.

Actually it is not difficult at all, despite the recent internal WU presentation in reddit

https://localbitcoins.com/buy-bitcoins-online/western-union/

You can buy $5000/day using money in minutes with your credit card


support the network?!?! HAh thetre is no supporting there is only stealing a peace of pie of other ppl who mine BTC.

JoelKatz
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November 02, 2013, 06:54:49 AM
 #19454

Exactly correct.  Also that "network protection" statement was made on 7/18/13 (6 weeks after they started taking orders) so all the people with units in hand knew nothing about that.
No, that's not how it works. The network protection statement affected everyone's assessment of the value of their pre-orders and other people's pre-orders and it affected people's decision to buy them, sell them, request refunds, and so on. There may be people who have units in their hands today who made the decision to buy other people's pre-orders because of the network protection statement. Once you do something that change something's value, other people act based on that.

Everyone with a miner in hand made decisions knowing of the existence of that statement.

(This is a general principle. In this specific case, the network protection statement was weak and basically meaningless. I'm just pointing out that the timing argument is bogus.)

I am an employee of Ripple. Follow me on Twitter @JoelKatz
1Joe1Katzci1rFcsr9HH7SLuHVnDy2aihZ BM-NBM3FRExVJSJJamV9ccgyWvQfratUHgN
rampalija
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November 02, 2013, 07:09:53 AM
 #19455

Exactly correct.  Also that "network protection" statement was made on 7/18/13 (6 weeks after they started taking orders) so all the people with units in hand knew nothing about that.
No, that's not how it works. The network protection statement affected everyone's assessment of the value of their pre-orders and other people's pre-orders and it affected people's decision to buy them, sell them, request refunds, and so on. There may be people who have units in their hands today who made the decision to buy other people's pre-orders because of the network protection statement. Once you do something that change something's value, other people act based on that.

Everyone with a miner in hand made decisions knowing of the existence of that statement.

(This is a general principle. In this specific case, the network protection statement was weak and basically meaningless. I'm just pointing out that the timing argument is bogus.)

nice explanation!  Smiley

arousedrhino
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November 02, 2013, 07:13:34 AM
 #19456

Now tell me how to purchase 8K in BTC with a credit card? Any idea's?

Buying a miner with a credit card is a lot easier and more fun than just buying BTC. You might not make as much money as if you just bought BTC but who cares its an easy fun way to get BTC and support the network.

Actually it is not difficult at all, despite the recent internal WU presentation in reddit

https://localbitcoins.com/buy-bitcoins-online/western-union/

You can buy $5000/day using money in minutes with your credit card


support the network?!?! HAh thetre is no supporting there is only stealing a peace of pie of other ppl who mine BTC.

Thats the point, to distribute the networks as much as possible therefore you get a smaller share. Are you serious or just trolling? Can't tell.
waterboi92
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November 02, 2013, 07:46:07 AM
 #19457

any jupiter owners running .98 notice that the hashrate is highest when you do a poweroff cycle and reboot, it will hit 565-575gh/s at the pool and then after running for a while the pool listed hash rate will get progressively lower, i dip at 490gh/s

any idea why this is?



This is exactly what happens to mine, maybe even lower, 470, 460... no idea why  Huh
did you ever try 70-75C? after enablecores, on 0.98?

24 hours later.. my 3 sats are 850 at the pool on 12 hour average!
that's 283 each, which is exactly what they show on cgminer!

what are your temp readings? how are your fans/case set up? im thinking of following you, doing enable core, and rebooting and then putting case on upside down to raise the temps a bit and see if i still get a down slide in hashes over time with higher temps.


if i've helped you, donations welcome: 1BwGnrqSjbfJ39mTNrvb257eUSuUP7Pfxh
edgar
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November 02, 2013, 07:46:45 AM
 #19458

Exactly correct.  Also that "network protection" statement was made on 7/18/13 (6 weeks after they started taking orders) so all the people with units in hand knew nothing about that.
No, that's not how it works. The network protection statement affected everyone's assessment of the value of their pre-orders and other people's pre-orders and it affected people's decision to buy them, sell them, request refunds, and so on. There may be people who have units in their hands today who made the decision to buy other people's pre-orders because of the network protection statement. Once you do something that change something's value, other people act based on that.

Everyone with a miner in hand made decisions knowing of the existence of that statement.

(This is a general principle. In this specific case, the network protection statement was weak and basically meaningless. I'm just pointing out that the timing argument is bogus.)

+Yea!


Also, My HR lowers at night, when the chips are around 10C cooler.
Phoenix1969
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LIR DEV


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November 02, 2013, 07:58:10 AM
 #19459

any jupiter owners running .98 notice that the hashrate is highest when you do a poweroff cycle and reboot, it will hit 565-575gh/s at the pool and then after running for a while the pool listed hash rate will get progressively lower, i dip at 490gh/s

any idea why this is?



This is exactly what happens to mine, maybe even lower, 470, 460... no idea why  Huh
did you ever try 70-75C? after enablecores, on 0.98?

24 hours later.. my 3 sats are 850 at the pool on 12 hour average!
that's 283 each, which is exactly what they show on cgminer!

what are your temp readings? how are your fans/case set up? im thinking of following you, doing enable core, and rebooting and then putting case on upside down to raise the temps a bit and see if i still get a down slide in hashes over time with higher temps.


at the moment, all 6 boards(3 sats) are between 69-73C, no case fans whatsoever, heatsink fans only. cases off, stacked, with cardboard partially blocking the fans airflow into the heatsink, like this...

All running 0.98 with enablecores over top
this is for night-time basically, because it gets downright chilly in here.
During the day, I can remove the cardboard, and they stay around 70
Ive tried several times to leave them off... but if they drop below those
temps by more than about 5 degrees, I see a drop in my rates, and can
see one one miner loose about 6 cores, and another loose two...
then they take forever to come back, like 6-8 hours!
I have one miner that is super-rock solid, one a tad finicky,
and one super-sensitive finicky, don't breathe near me kind
Also, It may just be my imagination, but they seem to work better
while its raining outside(high humidity)


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uininPeter
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November 02, 2013, 08:03:50 AM
 #19460

Do you think people who bought BFL products are turning their machines off?


No. With increased difficulty, when BFL products are not profitable anymore, these still can be used as room heaters for those who need it

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