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Author Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com  (Read 3008013 times)
xhomerx10
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July 04, 2014, 05:49:11 PM
 #36481

Well now to be fair, you have to read the entire article.  Later in the article he "explains' the "lie":

This is where the lie comes into the picture. The video they uploaded to Youtube actually shows a significantly faster product than what they promised customers.

We said from the beginning that our product would do 350 GHz. Then, we went out and said that we had made some adjustments and gotten our chips to be faster. We did things like this a few times, says Andreas Kennemar.

We always knew that the chips would be faster. We lied to make customers happy and to confuse competitors. They didn t know where we d set the bar.


Well to be fair, that is a lie too.

Their jupiter launch video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFOcI8nK2xI) clearly stated where their bar was:

"It's a 500 machine"
500GH/s
Then a week or so later they insisted if you got 400GH, that was all you were entitled to, even after their launch video promising 500GH/s+.

So they were liars in the sense of NOT delivering what they promised, i.e. liars

I'll remind you for the 7 millionth time of this gem of knc's not-too-distant-past.

Quote
Hi,
 
We understand your concern regarding your miner not performing as well as others, however as your hash rate is higher than 400GH/s we cannot issue a RMA. We are continuously working on the firmware to improve performance and stability.
 
If you have any further questions or issues please do not hesitate in contacting us.  
 
Best regards  | Med vänlig hälsning  
Keith Gurnett  
Kncminer
www.kncminer.com
Office: +46 8559 253 20


So they just lied to people, nothing more or less. Like the lie of claiming they would deliever all units by Oct 15th, even though they knew from the beginning of October they could never achieve that. And a million others if I could be bothered to dig them out.

And I noted 3 other lies knc told to decieve customers above, please address those too if you wish to defend KNC's policy of deceipt.

 Of course, you're right.  I hadn't consider the fact that they said, "We have a 500 machine here for you."
Also, the earliest customers got either the 4VRM or crippled 8VRM machines and those ordering later got 8VRM machines which run cooler and faster and overclock really well.
AND the people hashing in their data center were (allegedly) compensated 4 BTC due to delays but the people having miners shipped a week late got none.
The more I think about it the worse it gets.
 

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July 04, 2014, 06:07:20 PM
 #36482

As I understand it to cool Neptune VRM's there is a poorly manufactured aluminum plate in the form of an "E" with the outer legs on the VRM's and the middle leg holding the heat sink in place.

There is some kind of thick heat foam between the VRM's and the plate to transfer the heat to the plate but then where does the heat go? Is it dissipated by the metal plate or is it thermally bonded to the top of the heat pipe sink?

Thanks

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July 04, 2014, 06:12:58 PM
 #36483

We now have shipping confirmations on KnC forum from today; still nobody has confirmed receiving a Neptune since Q2.

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July 04, 2014, 06:25:31 PM
 #36484

Well now to be fair, you have to read the entire article.  Later in the article he "explains' the "lie":

This is where the lie comes into the picture. The video they uploaded to Youtube actually shows a significantly faster product than what they promised customers.

We said from the beginning that our product would do 350 GHz. Then, we went out and said that we had made some adjustments and gotten our chips to be faster. We did things like this a few times, says Andreas Kennemar.

We always knew that the chips would be faster. We lied to make customers happy and to confuse competitors. They didn t know where we d set the bar.


Well to be fair, that is a lie too.

Their jupiter launch video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFOcI8nK2xI) clearly stated where their bar was:

"It's a 500 machine"
500GH/s
Then a week or so later they insisted if you got 400GH, that was all you were entitled to, even after their launch video promising 500GH/s+.

So they were liars in the sense of NOT delivering what they promised, i.e. liars

I'll remind you for the 7 millionth time of this gem of knc's not-too-distant-past.

Quote
Hi,
 
We understand your concern regarding your miner not performing as well as others, however as your hash rate is higher than 400GH/s we cannot issue a RMA. We are continuously working on the firmware to improve performance and stability.
 
If you have any further questions or issues please do not hesitate in contacting us.  
 
Best regards  | Med vänlig hälsning  
Keith Gurnett  
Kncminer
www.kncminer.com
Office: +46 8559 253 20


So they just lied to people, nothing more or less. Like the lie of claiming they would deliever all units by Oct 15th, even though they knew from the beginning of October they could never achieve that. And a million others if I could be bothered to dig them out.

And I noted 3 other lies knc told to decieve customers above, please address those too if you wish to defend KNC's policy of deceipt.

 Of course, you're right.  I hadn't consider the fact that they said, "We have a 500 machine here for you."
Also, the earliest customers got either the 4VRM or crippled 8VRM machines and those ordering later got 8VRM machines which run cooler and faster and overclock really well.
AND the people hashing in their data center were (allegedly) compensated 4 BTC due to delays but the people having miners shipped a week late got none.
The more I think about it the worse it gets.
 
true, somewhat, if a bit backwards......  the 8 VRM Jupiters were the "early" ones.  
Mostly, people got the 4 VRM Jupiters, which "overclocked" just fine tho.
The "lucky" few people who got the early 8VRM Jupiters normally had dead VRM's... unless you did some tweaking.
Now, with Neptune's power requirements, all come with 8 VRM's, with all 8 nearly "maxed out".


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July 04, 2014, 06:33:50 PM
 #36485

As I understand it to cool Neptune VRM's there is a poorly manufactured aluminum plate in the form of an "E" with the outer legs on the VRM's and the middle leg holding the heat sink in place.

There is some kind of thick heat foam between the VRM's and the plate to transfer the heat to the plate but then where does the heat go? Is it dissipated by the metal plate or is it thermally bonded to the top of the heat pipe sink?

Thanks

The VRM heat goes from VRM -> foam -> plate ->  some radiates off the plate some may transfer down from the plate into ASIC heatsink but that would depend on temperature of each part.
The heat only goes to cooler places, if the base of heatsink is hotter than the plate(not VRM temp BTW) it will warm it(plate) too.

(second law of thermodynamics??)

If the 'heatsink base' is cooler than the plate, adding a dab of grease between plate and heatsink would help.
Else the ASIC will contribute to VRM temp issues.

Would need to attach thermocouple to a small probe  and measure plate and base of heatsink to 'know'.

The plate is WELL MANUFACTURED.
They are almost perfectly flat.
Turns out IMneverHO that flat is not ideal.
I bend the ends of the outer legs down for better contact of plate/foam/VRM.

Easy no parts needed improvement in VRM temps!
You can look at imprint in foam and determine where it needs more pressure.

It can be done without unsticking heatsink from ASIC if you bend the fan back and carefully pry plate up from VRM's.
The foam acts like doublesided tape.
It's more like clay or plumbers putty than foam.

I also squeezed the foam/clay a bit to make it taller before reinstall of plate.

YMMV
Smiley

EDIT there is also foam below PCB under same challenged VRM's.
Raising cubes up a bit will help bottom of case radiate some of the heat.

The whole foam thing is an OK idea but poorly implimented.

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July 04, 2014, 06:37:45 PM
 #36486


All is well now and I'll (much more carefully) install the other 3 today sometime.

Come monday it's time to throw more money at it



Are you in this to get a little money back or just fooling around and tinkering like a hobby?


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July 04, 2014, 06:52:25 PM
 #36487

A slight misfortune has visited tolips secret watercooling lair.

First WB install went almost perfect.
Slight problem with ASIC temp. Not bad just no improvement.
Turns out there is sand in the vaselene that came with waterblocks.
Was prepared with other grease anyways.
I had hoped stock grease was adequate for testing, guess not.
So far trivial expected issues.

Move on to second waterblock install and lady luck exits left stage.
One of the 90's I attached to the waterblock FAILED.
It did not seperate completely, I would have had water everywhere.
(yes I was working on it with loop running and other ASICs hashing away)
I have so much flow I have to run only one pump out of two else air bubbles do not collect in resivour.
Woulda been like turning on a garden hose if it had seperated completely.

After I replaced the failed part my PCB only indicated 5 VRMs.
If you ever had a hard disk failure on a PC you may know how I was feeling at the time.
I did not panic, just got out the vacuume and PC crevace tool.
It took a few tries to get the VRMs to go again.
I also let the working VRM's help boil away the water.

All is well now and I'll (much more carefully) install the other 3 today sometime.

Come monday it's time to throw more money at it and get better 90's for all the waterblocks.
I'll also try and extract a pound of flesh from vendor for selling such shit.

Second time I had an issue with 90's from this vendor.
First issue was restricted flow in otherwise bulletproof  cool lookin 90's.
With the leak I am done playing nice, the shit is too fragile for the application.

What's interesting about this adventure is that it is same PCB that challenged me installing 12AWG power wires onto.
I ended up bypassing the PCB 12V copper and running wires directly to each VRM.
The good news is that it was not my mods failed only a temorary shit new part/rain delay.

All in all, for me, it's fun to visit the bleeding edge.

YMMV
Smiley

just curious, any reason to use 90o fittings versus straight in fittings to the waterblock?


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July 04, 2014, 06:56:43 PM
 #36488

Mining btc is final hobby
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July 04, 2014, 06:59:13 PM
 #36489


All is well now and I'll (much more carefully) install the other 3 today sometime.

Come monday it's time to throw more money at it



Are you in this to get a little money back or just fooling around and tinkering like a hobby?



I consider it as my Saturns financed my hobby.
All my additional investments have uses that will outlive the ASICs.
Metal parts last forever.
The money is thrown but not thrown out Smiley

YMMV
Smiley

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July 04, 2014, 07:13:15 PM
 #36490


just curious, any reason to use 90o fittings versus straight in fittings to the waterblock?


trivial reasons, not needed.

Can stack PCBs 1 per 80-100mm

I stacked with straight barbs but not as dense as possible.
http://i.imgur.com/xoHsaiJ.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/GXvNz3g.jpg

With 90's I could stack the Hoopiter on the left and the Nep on the right, remote the radiator and replace with single large fan.
Not that I would. but I want it to be just big enough eventually. whatever I end up with for an ASIC case.

YMMV
Smiley

EDIT My hoopiter configuration has a potential flaw if I get a big air bubble in inverted waterblocks while running flat.
Designed for sitting on it side though. (that density thing again)

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July 04, 2014, 07:44:40 PM
 #36491






Looks like a time-machine.

All is Mine!

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July 04, 2014, 09:11:38 PM
 #36492


tnx! Smiley

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July 04, 2014, 10:29:49 PM
 #36493


just curious, any reason to use 90o fittings versus straight in fittings to the waterblock?


trivial reasons, not needed.

Can stack PCBs 1 per 80-100mm

I stacked with straight barbs but not as dense as possible.
http://i.imgur.com/xoHsaiJ.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/GXvNz3g.jpg

With 90's I could stack the Hoopiter on the left and the Nep on the right, remote the radiator and replace with single large fan.
Not that I would. but I want it to be just big enough eventually. whatever I end up with for an ASIC case.

YMMV
Smiley

EDIT My hoopiter configuration has a potential flaw if I get a big air bubble in inverted waterblocks while running flat.
Designed for sitting on it side though. (that density thing again)


ahhh ... I now see what you mean.  Yes, chemistry and physics can be a bitch ...  Cheesy


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July 04, 2014, 10:40:01 PM
 #36494

Well now to be fair, you have to read the entire article.  Later in the article he "explains' the "lie":

This is where the lie comes into the picture. The video they uploaded to Youtube actually shows a significantly faster product than what they promised customers.

We said from the beginning that our product would do 350 GHz. Then, we went out and said that we had made some adjustments and gotten our chips to be faster. We did things like this a few times, says Andreas Kennemar.

We always knew that the chips would be faster. We lied to make customers happy and to confuse competitors. They didn t know where we d set the bar.


Well to be fair, that is a lie too.

Their jupiter launch video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFOcI8nK2xI) clearly stated where their bar was:

"It's a 500 machine"
500GH/s
Then a week or so later they insisted if you got 400GH, that was all you were entitled to, even after their launch video promising 500GH/s+.

So they were liars in the sense of NOT delivering what they promised, i.e. liars

I'll remind you for the 7 millionth time of this gem of knc's not-too-distant-past.

Quote
Hi,
 
We understand your concern regarding your miner not performing as well as others, however as your hash rate is higher than 400GH/s we cannot issue a RMA. We are continuously working on the firmware to improve performance and stability.
 
If you have any further questions or issues please do not hesitate in contacting us.  
 
Best regards  | Med vänlig hälsning  
Keith Gurnett  
Kncminer
www.kncminer.com
Office: +46 8559 253 20


So they just lied to people, nothing more or less. Like the lie of claiming they would deliever all units by Oct 15th, even though they knew from the beginning of October they could never achieve that. And a million others if I could be bothered to dig them out.

And I noted 3 other lies knc told to decieve customers above, please address those too if you wish to defend KNC's policy of deceipt.

 Of course, you're right.  I hadn't consider the fact that they said, "We have a 500 machine here for you."
Also, the earliest customers got either the 4VRM or crippled 8VRM machines and those ordering later got 8VRM machines which run cooler and faster and overclock really well.
AND the people hashing in their data center were (allegedly) compensated 4 BTC due to delays but the people having miners shipped a week late got none.
The more I think about it the worse it gets.
 
true, somewhat, if a bit backwards......  the 8 VRM Jupiters were the "early" ones.  
Mostly, people got the 4 VRM Jupiters, which "overclocked" just fine tho.
The "lucky" few people who got the early 8VRM Jupiters normally had dead VRM's... unless you did some tweaking.
Now, with Neptune's power requirements, all come with 8 VRM's, with all 8 nearly "maxed out".

  I paid in BTC on the first day of orders and should have had one of the first miners shipped.  Mine is a 4 VRM using the GE Critical Power DC/DC converter.  I run it over-clocked with a setting of 361.  I have to open the case and put extra fans on it to keep it cool and the VRMs are over 50 amps - have been for a 4 months now.
 A couple months ago I picked up a second hand October unit with 8 VRMs.  The thing is, only 4 of them were enabled so I turned on the other 4 and did some tweaking.  I run that one at 391 with no extra cooling and the case fully assembled.   The highest VRM is running at 30 amps. So there is tons of room left for tweaking but those are the Ericsson DC/DC modules.  My understanding is that the November modules use 8 Ericsson VRMs and can easily be run at 1000 GH/s with a little extra cooling and a beefed up power supply.  I believe this because I am at 800 without really trying.  The updated firmware is even specific to the October vs November devices.  I even tried the November firmware on my October 8 VRM device and it did not work even though it also has 8 VRMS.  Now all the Neptune modules must have 8 VRMs otherwise it would not be possible to supply the required power.

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July 04, 2014, 11:57:04 PM
 #36495

A slight misfortune has visited tolips secret watercooling lair.

First WB install went almost perfect.
Slight problem with ASIC temp. Not bad just no improvement.
Turns out there is sand in the vaselene that came with waterblocks.
Was prepared with other grease anyways.
I had hoped stock grease was adequate for testing, guess not.
So far trivial expected issues.

Move on to second waterblock install and lady luck exits left stage.
One of the 90's I attached to the waterblock FAILED.
It did not seperate completely, I would have had water everywhere.
(yes I was working on it with loop running and other ASICs hashing away)
I have so much flow I have to run only one pump out of two else air bubbles do not collect in resivour.
Woulda been like turning on a garden hose if it had seperated completely.

After I replaced the failed part my PCB only indicated 5 VRMs.
If you ever had a hard disk failure on a PC you may know how I was feeling at the time.
I did not panic, just got out the vacuume and PC crevace tool.
It took a few tries to get the VRMs to go again.
I also let the working VRM's help boil away the water.

All is well now and I'll (much more carefully) install the other 3 today sometime.

Come monday it's time to throw more money at it and get better 90's for all the waterblocks.
I'll also try and extract a pound of flesh from vendor for selling such shit.

Second time I had an issue with 90's from this vendor.
First issue was restricted flow in otherwise bulletproof  cool lookin 90's.
With the leak I am done playing nice, the shit is too fragile for the application.

What's interesting about this adventure is that it is same PCB that challenged me installing 12AWG power wires onto.
I ended up bypassing the PCB 12V copper and running wires directly to each VRM.
The good news is that it was not my mods failed only a temorary shit new part/rain delay.

All in all, for me, it's fun to visit the bleeding edge.

YMMV
Smiley

Are we supposed to know what "90's" are?
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July 05, 2014, 12:41:25 AM
 #36496

He mentioned a 90 degree cooling system fitting that failed in an earlier post.
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July 05, 2014, 01:58:26 AM
 #36497

He mentioned a 90 degree cooling system fitting that failed in an earlier post.

Cheers, thanks. To be honest, I didn't understand anything else in that post either, lol. Way over my head!
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July 05, 2014, 03:02:31 AM
 #36498

Good news guys.  I have reduced my VRM temps by 20 degrees C with my new delta fan:


Heres a comparison with the other cubes that still have the stock fans:


Only problem is that it sounds like a Boeing 747 but i would rather be deaf than having burnt VRMs.

How much CRM for the delta fan? It is used to blow the cold air in right? I thought there is a fan inside the box?

Its 240 CFM. 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835213001&cm_re=delta_120mm_fan-_-35-213-001-_-Product

There stock 120mm fan was mounted on the inside but I removed that and had to mount the delta fan on the outside because the delta fan is thicker and wont fit on the inside.  Also I had to use a 120mm to 140mm fan adapter which also adds thickness.  Thats why it looks so bulky in the pic.  It blows air into Neptune.

thank you for the reply! do you have any idea how much cpm the stock 120mm fan has?

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ilovethebtc
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July 05, 2014, 05:00:30 AM
 #36499

Good news guys.  I have reduced my VRM temps by 20 degrees C with my new delta fan:


Heres a comparison with the other cubes that still have the stock fans:


Only problem is that it sounds like a Boeing 747 but i would rather be deaf than having burnt VRMs.

How much CRM for the delta fan? It is used to blow the cold air in right? I thought there is a fan inside the box?

Its 240 CFM. 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835213001&cm_re=delta_120mm_fan-_-35-213-001-_-Product

There stock 120mm fan was mounted on the inside but I removed that and had to mount the delta fan on the outside because the delta fan is thicker and wont fit on the inside.  Also I had to use a 120mm to 140mm fan adapter which also adds thickness.  Thats why it looks so bulky in the pic.  It blows air into Neptune.

thank you for the reply! do you have any idea how much cpm the stock 120mm fan has?

I typo-ed.  The stock fan that comes with the Neptune is a 140mm fan with 122 CFM.  This is the stock fan:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835345069&cm_re=140mm_fan-_-35-345-069-_-Product

I couldn't find many 140mm fans with more than 122 CFM so thats why I got 120mm delta fans.
samsonn25
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July 05, 2014, 05:12:43 AM
 #36500

A 140mm fan would need to spin higher than 2000 rpm.  There are not many out there.
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