Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com

[Rampion]

Mark my words: given the current circumstances, best case scenario is first miners ship at the very end of September (last week for sure), and the vast majority of those who hoped to receive their hardware in September will receive it in October. No working ASIC prototype on September 6th.

Best case.

bullshit!

Wanna bet BTC against me that first 5 units do not arrive to customers units before the last week of September? 50/50 odds and escrow?

[1715123271]

1715123271

[1715123271]

1715123271

[sickpig]

Interesting..  Kano they even thanked your for the help you did not know you gave them....
LMFAO....

LOL

Ooh they thanked me too! I feel all warm and fuzzy.

@ckolivas, @kano

may I say that thery're thanking for the creation of CGminer ?

quoting the relevant part:

Secondly with regards to CGminer, and it’s opensource protocol we’ve been able to configure our device unassisted and made a greater than 30% performance increase using the underlying code, for which we would like to thank both kano and ckolivas with their outstanding contribution to the community.

sure I would had wanted a more "close" collaboration between KnC and @kano, @ckolivas.

Another possible scenario is that they didn't changed the CGminer's code but only apply tweaks to PCB/IC/whatever... but I'm not an expert so I don't know if it'd be possible.

[vulgartrendkill]

so, They aren't using CGminer only its protocol to run the mining via their own solution (kncminer anyone?)

[eve]

Mark my words: given the current circumstances, best case scenario is first miners ship at the very end of September (last week for sure), and the vast majority of those who hoped to receive their hardware in September will receive it in October. No working ASIC prototype on September 6th.

Best case.

Sad to say I have to agreed on this, no working prototype and no asic to show.

[demonmaestro]

Just becuase they aint saying anything or showing anything DOES NOT mean they are not making them or what not.

[vulgartrendkill]

Just becuase they aint saying anything or showing anything DOES NOT mean they are not making them or what not.

Indeed.  But it would be nice to see an update from them. even if its a two liner....

[merv77]

I just want the KNC pool site to come online so I can get signed up and pre-configure my settings.

isn't the KnC pool just for the miners that are hosted by them..?
didn't they say this was the case to prevent DOS attacks..?
then if true you wouldn't be able to configure it yourself via a browser as it's only done internally.

I'm no network expert or know much about DOS attacks, so if someone has the knowledge please clarify.

[-ck]

Interesting..  Kano they even thanked your for the help you did not know you gave them....
LMFAO....

LOL

Ooh they thanked me too! I feel all warm and fuzzy.

@ckolivas, @kano

may I say that thery're thanking for the creation of CGminer ?

quoting the relevant part:

Secondly with regards to CGminer, and it’s opensource protocol we’ve been able to configure our device unassisted and made a greater than 30% performance increase using the underlying code, for which we would like to thank both kano and ckolivas with their outstanding contribution to the community.

sure I would had wanted a more "close" collaboration between KnC and @kano, @ckolivas.

Another possible scenario is that they didn't changed the CGminer's code but only apply tweaks to PCB/IC/whatever... but I'm not an expert so I don't know if it'd be possible.

When last we spoke, they were talking about writing their own driver for cgminer, so I assume it's just that and not a separate mining application. That is not necessarily good news by the way...

[plasmoske]

That is not necessarily good news by the way...

Elaborate?

[sickpig]

@ckolivas, @kano

may I say that thery're thanking for the creation of CGminer ?

quoting the relevant part:

Secondly with regards to CGminer, and it’s opensource protocol we’ve been able to configure our device unassisted and made a greater than 30% performance increase using the underlying code, for which we would like to thank both kano and ckolivas with their outstanding contribution to the community.

sure I would had wanted a more "close" collaboration between KnC and @kano, @ckolivas.

Another possible scenario is that they didn't changed the CGminer's code but only apply tweaks to PCB/IC/whatever... but I'm not an expert so I don't know if it'd be possible.

When last we spoke, they were talking about writing their own driver for cgminer, so I assume it's just that and not a separate mining application. That is not necessarily good news by the way...

indeed

I hope they (or OrSoC) are skilled enough to get it right

[eraziel]

That is not necessarily good news by the way...

Elaborate?

The driver may potentially not work with future versions of cgminer.

[vesperwillow]

The pre-order model flat out sucks for investors. At best it's a zero interest loan with the purchased gear as collateral.

Have you done much ground-floor level investment into emerging technologies and sciences before? Because this is essentially how it goes. I've done ground-level before, the rewards are the sweetest, the risks are most bitter, and at the end of the day you'll be drinking either way. Your posts constantly remind me of the folks back in the early 80's who were hating on the Microsoft crew.

I'm just disappointed that they've not helped to move us beyond this pre-order model and it's lopsided share of the risks heaped upon investors.

Either you're a genious or your viewpoint is skewed because hardly anyone else sees it that way, especially considering KNC has taken more risk than any other startup in the ASIC world. There's risk with ANY altcoin mining OR purchasing OR preorder of equipment. Any! There's risk with the stock markets for heaven sake! Presently, every other option out there is 99.9% vaporware compared to KNC. At least with KNC's "pre order scheme" as the spirit of your posts call it, you can get your money back.

As many have said before, until the components are as common as standard computer parts, there likely will never be a company to simply stock everything up front. It's not a wise business model unless you have stupid crazy levels of black ink on your overhead ledger with nothing to spend it on but inventory. It's not probable that will occur soon. In the future perhaps.

Guys I've never expected to see a chip until 2nd/3rd week of September earliest. They will literally be testing the chip as soon as they have it packaged and sent to them, they have always known the date they will receive it, from the date they settled the NRE with the fab. They will go straight into production from there. I anticipate early 20's this month for chip info. I got that impression from the openday. I will be worried if I still hear no chip info around 27th. I'm not bothered about a bet that ends on the 1st of October, I'm bothered if I see no chip by the 1st of October. That's the point I'll be twitchy and concerned, if you're feeling like that now you clearly have not read anything about what I wrote or what they have written. It's always been end of September in my mind and i'm cool as a cucumber currently. The fact that Scandanavia's largest bank has partnered with them is massive news, SEB aren't about to be made fools of, and will have ultra stringent criteria, so all's gravy in my mind. Whether the chip performs as anticipated, well that's down to margins upon margins, that said this is is the only pessimistic company in the race. True scientists and engineers are, until they have statistically significant data, the rest of the playing field are hyping simulated data and best case scenarios, that's not science, that's marketing, and unachievable.

My background is in science, engineering, finance and adland. I can tell fact from fiction. You don't need to believe me, just know I'm very content. Make your own minds up, but ffs at least read up so we're singing from the same hymn sheet.

^- THIS * 1000

[creativex]

The pre-order model flat out sucks for investors. At best it's a zero interest loan with the purchased gear as collateral.

Have you done much ground-floor level investment into emerging technologies and sciences before? Because this is essentially how it goes. I've done ground-level before, the rewards are the sweetest, the risks are most bitter, and at the end of the day you'll be drinking either way. Your posts constantly remind me of the folks back in the early 80's who were hating on the Microsoft crew.

Trouble is this is not MS, this is an extremely time sensitive hardware investment and it loses value every second of every day and that includes the time frame between when the pre-order is placed and when the pre-order is(hopefully) delivered. The risks are off the charts and they're being 100% handed to investors. Please see nearly any BFL investor for confirmation. As I said this was acceptable to my mind for knc's first foray, but I'd liked to have seen them move away from this silly model for future orders and at least shoulder some of the risks themselves, but they did not do this.

I'm just disappointed that they've not helped to move us beyond this pre-order model and it's lopsided share of the risks heaped upon investors.

Either you're a genious or your viewpoint is skewed because hardly anyone else sees it that way, especially considering KNC has taken more risk than any other startup in the ASIC world. There's risk with ANY altcoin mining OR purchasing OR preorder of equipment. Any! There's risk with the stock markets for heaven sake! Presently, every other option out there is 99.9% vaporware compared to KNC. At least with KNC's "pre order scheme" as the spirit of your posts call it, you can get your money back.

You mean like the guy that voiced his agreement almost immediately after mine?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=170332.msg3091218#msg3091218

"as the spirit of your posts call it" lol

The market is moving away from the pre-order model anyway as more and more vendors enter the space. The evidence of this is all over the forums. Compare knc's reception to hashfast's reception. People are slowly wising up to the dangers thanks to BFL and Avalon. Soon vendors will not have the option to offload 100% of the risks associated with hardware development to their investors. Vendors are having a lot more difficulty getting investors to throw pre-order funds at them even now.

I believe THIS is the post you're attempting to pick apart, so let's put it here for context shall we?

The pre-order model flat out sucks for investors. At best it's a zero interest loan with the purchased gear as collateral. The gear that hasn't been built yet mind you. Yes knc is offering refunds and I wouldn't even have given them a second look otherwise, but we need to move beyond this ridiculous sales model. Just because you can get a refund doesn't mean you don't have losses. Those that are ordering are plainly interested in BTC and as such have numerous investment opportunities. When knc announced their plans to develop this hardware those that invested made their choice. Whether it was the right choice or not remains to be seen, but if they paid with BTC at that time then they're already way behind because they locked in an exchange rate that was most likely lower than it is now. If they paid with fiat then they likely could've purchased BTC directly and been better off. Again, nothing against knc as they've acted in good faith thus far, I'm just disappointed that they've not helped to move us beyond this pre-order model and it's lopsided share of the risks heaped upon investors.

[plasmoske]

The market is moving away from the pre-order model anyway as more and more vendors enter the space. The evidence of this is all over the forums. Compare knc's reception to hashfast's reception. People are slowly wising up to the dangers thanks to BFL and Avalon. Soon vendors will not have the option to offload 100% of the risks associated with hardware development to their investors. Vendors are having a lot more difficulty getting investors to throw pre-order funds at them even now.

People were critical of hashfast not because of the preorder model but because of the payment methods. They only accept straight up bitcoins, bitpay and bank wires - which is a bit crapola.

KNC on the other hand has cc, paypal, bitpay, bank wire. The wise would be using PayPal or CC.

Hell I'm sure if Cointerra or Hashfast had CC/PayPal, heaps of people would've jumped in. Same can said for any other company out there.

[noodle73]

I just want the KNC pool site to come online so I can get signed up and pre-configure my settings.

isn't the KnC pool just for the miners that are hosted by them..?
didn't they say this was the case to prevent DOS attacks..?
then if true you wouldn't be able to configure it yourself via a browser as it's only done internally.

I'm no network expert or know much about DOS attacks, so if someone has the knowledge please clarify.

I thought this is what they said too. Presumably there will be some way we can keep an eye on things, but will have to wait for more info on that.

[vulgartrendkill]

The market is moving away from the pre-order model anyway as more and more vendors enter the space. The evidence of this is all over the forums. Compare knc's reception to hashfast's reception. People are slowly wising up to the dangers thanks to BFL and Avalon. Soon vendors will not have the option to offload 100% of the risks associated with hardware development to their investors. Vendors are having a lot more difficulty getting investors to throw pre-order funds at them even now.

People were critical of hashfast not because of the preorder model but because of the payment methods. They only accept straight up bitcoins, bitpay and bank wires - which is a bit crapola.

KNC on the other hand has cc, paypal, bitpay, bank wire. The wise would be using PayPal or CC.

Hell I'm sure if Cointerra or Hashfast had CC/PayPal, heaps of people would've jumped in. Same can said for any other company out there.

Personally, I want to mine to obtain bitcoin, so why do they assume I already had a plentiful supply?  If I had an amount of bitcoin enough to buy their machine, why would I want their machine??

[Rampion]

The market is moving away from the pre-order model anyway as more and more vendors enter the space. The evidence of this is all over the forums. Compare knc's reception to hashfast's reception. People are slowly wising up to the dangers thanks to BFL and Avalon. Soon vendors will not have the option to offload 100% of the risks associated with hardware development to their investors. Vendors are having a lot more difficulty getting investors to throw pre-order funds at them even now.

People were critical of hashfast not because of the preorder model but because of the payment methods. They only accept straight up bitcoins, bitpay and bank wires - which is a bit crapola.

KNC on the other hand has cc, paypal, bitpay, bank wire. The wise would be using PayPal or CC.

Hell I'm sure if Cointerra or Hashfast had CC/PayPal, heaps of people would've jumped in. Same can said for any other company out there.

Personally, I want to mine to obtain bitcoin, so why do they assume I already had a plentiful supply?  If I had an amount of bitcoin enough to buy their machine, why would I want their machine??

To mine more bitcoins?

[plasmoske]

Personally, I want to mine to obtain bitcoin, so why do they assume I already had a plentiful supply?  If I had an amount of bitcoin enough to buy their machine, why would I want their machine??

To earn more bitcoins

That's the name of the game.

[creativex]

The market is moving away from the pre-order model anyway as more and more vendors enter the space. The evidence of this is all over the forums. Compare knc's reception to hashfast's reception. People are slowly wising up to the dangers thanks to BFL and Avalon. Soon vendors will not have the option to offload 100% of the risks associated with hardware development to their investors. Vendors are having a lot more difficulty getting investors to throw pre-order funds at them even now.

People were critical of hashfast not because of the preorder model but because of the payment methods. They only accept straight up bitcoins, bitpay and bank wires - which is a bit crapola.

Actually their thread is riddled with people complaining about the pre-order model. Fortunately with the magic of instant rewind we can check and see:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=262052.0

Anyway why do you suppose so many want to use CC/Paypal to pay? Could it be because they want to be able to initiate a chargeback? They want a do-over option because the terms of the contract may change over time. IOW pre-orders suck and they want a way out.

[plasmoske]

Actually their thread is riddled with people complaining about the pre-order model. Fortunately with the magic of instant rewind we can check and see:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=262052.0

Anyway why do you suppose so many want to use CC/Paypal to pay? Could it be because they want to be able to initiate a chargeback? They want a do-over option because the terms of the contract may change over time. IOW pre-orders suck and they want a way out.

That's because they announced chip/product, open preorders and that was it. People were like WTF? Scammers?? Read the entire thread and you'll understand. It wasn't until days later they actually got a website up and running with some details and eventually people found out who they were. So once the details, people and etc were revealed, it was pretty much good to go besides the bitcoins/bank wire only part.

Anyhow I'm done talking about hashfast because this isn't the thread to do it.