Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com

[vesperwillow]

I probably shouldn't be counting other people's money, but since he has been bragging about it. I feel sorry for phoneix who spent about $12K(by today's btc value) for one of his nov jupiters. No wonder he is a bit quiet lately.

17.4 btc I think the first Nov. one was... hehe...part of the game.....no biggie!

You are fine, ~650GH delivered by first week of december will make over 17.4BTC in it's lifetime most likely, that's what matters right?

Exactly.......    

Let me know how much you mine.. according to my estimates, you won't see more than 10btc (13 max) out of a system with 700gh at that time frame. And that's with Fruity Pebbles and Lucky Charms at your side. And by that I mean, the first month. Sure you'll make some after, but it'll dwindle.

It's why I stopped buying any mining equipment from any OEM until they're in stock and reasonably priced. Right now the traders are going to make more than the miners, presuming same BTC investment.

Sad fact.

Then again, isn't it always the traders who are living off the backs of the hard workers in the mines?

[Phoenix1969]

I probably shouldn't be counting other people's money, but since he has been bragging about it. I feel sorry for phoneix who spent about $12K(by today's btc value) for one of his nov jupiters. No wonder he is a bit quiet lately.

17.4 btc I think the first Nov. one was... hehe...part of the game.....no biggie!

You are fine, ~650GH delivered by first week of december will make over 17.4BTC in it's lifetime most likely, that's what matters right?

Exactly.......     

Hm. I still find pretty much all mining equipment heavily overprized for the fact that no asic miner company had any money of their own invested and pretty much financed all with the preorder money.
If they had used venture capital the price would be adequate, but raking in so much profit with a loss for the miners is not only morally wrong but will eventually lead to alternative approaches to the mining equipment production problem. They only damage their own consumer base with that...

KNC Customers operating @ a loss?   You are surely on a different planet, or doing something wrong.... OMG.

[Phoenix1969]

I probably shouldn't be counting other people's money, but since he has been bragging about it. I feel sorry for phoneix who spent about $12K(by today's btc value) for one of his nov jupiters. No wonder he is a bit quiet lately.

17.4 btc I think the first Nov. one was... hehe...part of the game.....no biggie!

You are fine, ~650GH delivered by first week of december will make over 17.4BTC in it's lifetime most likely, that's what matters right?

Exactly.......    

Let me know how much you mine.. according to my estimates, you won't see more than 10btc (13 max) out of a system with 700gh at that time frame. And that's with Fruity Pebbles and Lucky Charms at your side. And by that I mean, the first month. Sure you'll make some after, but it'll dwindle.

It's why I stopped buying any mining equipment from any OEM until they're in stock and reasonably priced. Right now the traders are going to make more than the miners, presuming same BTC investment.

Sad fact.

Then again, isn't it always the traders who are living off the backs of the hard workers in the mines?

Yeah?, and two years from now, when BTC is like 4 grand, 10 billion diff, and your KNC OCTOBER Jupiter is still making a grand a day.... then what will you say?
Do the numbers...
According to the Winklevoss twins...BTC is worth 100x it's current value in 2 years....
That's 50 grand a BTC.....  Who knows how high it will go!.... We are in the INFANCY of BTC still!  Best days are yet to come, seriously.
about 75% of America has yet to even hear of bitcoin for the first time...

[DPoS]

I probably shouldn't be counting other people's money, but since he has been bragging about it. I feel sorry for phoneix who spent about $12K(by today's btc value) for one of his nov jupiters. No wonder he is a bit quiet lately.

You sound upset.

No, just fun observation. With this btc rise i start to feel like i overpaid for upgrade modules also.

Will this ever end?  

Unless you are going to buy and hold BTC with every cent you come across during every run up untill...?   And no crash ever happens....
If not, you are just second guessing and most likely just sitting on cash and hardly in the game

Buying KNC miners is like storing your BTC in a bank that only lets you withdraw a certain amount per day.  Helps to keep you in the game without selling everything at the first 20% jump.

These miners are the closest ones to get you back the same amount of BTC in as out as well..  even if it is 80% less the fact you are forced to hold in a massive bullrally as been a winning combination.

Actions are what matters, not hindsight

 

[Bitcoinorama]

Is anyone seeing movement on their UPS or is it just a label?

I have. They've been and gone.

With boards...

[Mota]

I probably shouldn't be counting other people's money, but since he has been bragging about it. I feel sorry for phoneix who spent about $12K(by today's btc value) for one of his nov jupiters. No wonder he is a bit quiet lately.

17.4 btc I think the first Nov. one was... hehe...part of the game.....no biggie!

You are fine, ~650GH delivered by first week of december will make over 17.4BTC in it's lifetime most likely, that's what matters right?

Exactly.......     

Hm. I still find pretty much all mining equipment heavily overprized for the fact that no asic miner company had any money of their own invested and pretty much financed all with the preorder money.
If they had used venture capital the price would be adequate, but raking in so much profit with a loss for the miners is not only morally wrong but will eventually lead to alternative approaches to the mining equipment production problem. They only damage their own consumer base with that...

Let's look at it this way,

Current Jupiter's are making roughly $2,000/Week at current BTC prices. What does this value the machine at? Most likely more than $8,000 which is greater than it's original value. BTC is going up so the machines worth in USD will continue to hover around the purchase price.

In 6 month from now if BTC price continues to escalate at the same rate as difficulty or great, you will have close to the BTC you could have purchased at the time AND a machine that has value. That's how I see it, the machine will always maintain some sort of value as long as BTC/USD price increases. Plus it's much more fun to mine than hold coin

I am doing it. However, I could have bought 162,5 btc at 80€ when I bought my first order. I will not EVER see 162,5 btc in mining returns. The sad fact is that the increase in btc price is detrimental for every miner since higher btc rate means more people buying mining rigs "since you can't measure the price to buy a miner in btc, you have to see your ROI in $, duh". Sad fact is that no asic company will honor any kind of regulation regarding mining equipment sales and you can be sure that the next gen will be even more overpriced e.g."since btc prices are rising we have to adjust our prices to the current market value and so our next gen device will have 2TH at 700W for a very cheap 17k$" (and hey, thats only!! 17 btc at 1000$/btc)

KNC Customers operating @ a loss?   You are surely on a different planet, or doing something wrong.... OMG.

Yes. I live on the planet got both my orders more than 2 weeks late. And even with that 25 btc more I would still not see any kind of btc ROI ever. But hey, maybe transactions will multiply ten thousandfold and we will see blocks with 35+btc and my units will make 80 btc each.

But hey,

Plus it's much more fun to mine than hold coin

I fully agree with that and when bitcoins reach 20k$ I will just buy one Island less and live happily ever after.

Yeah?, and two years from now, when BTC is like 4 grand, 10 billion diff, and your KNC OCTOBER Jupiter is still making a grand a day.... then what will you say?
Do the numbers...

Then I call bullshit since by then the diff would still be exactly so high that you would only get a marginal proft from it because everyone who thinks like you will have bought a miner "because it could make me a grand a day when the price rises again"

[vesperwillow]

I probably shouldn't be counting other people's money, but since he has been bragging about it. I feel sorry for phoneix who spent about $12K(by today's btc value) for one of his nov jupiters. No wonder he is a bit quiet lately.

17.4 btc I think the first Nov. one was... hehe...part of the game.....no biggie!

You are fine, ~650GH delivered by first week of december will make over 17.4BTC in it's lifetime most likely, that's what matters right?

Exactly.......     

Let me know how much you mine.. according to my estimates, you won't see more than 10btc (13 max) out of a system with 700gh at that time frame. And that's with Fruity Pebbles and Lucky Charms at your side. And by that I mean, the first month. Sure you'll make some after, but it'll dwindle.

It's why I stopped buying any mining equipment from any OEM until they're in stock and reasonably priced. Right now the traders are going to make more than the miners, presuming same BTC investment.

Sad fact.

Then again, isn't it always the traders who are living off the backs of the hard workers in the mines?

Yeah?, and two years from now, when BTC is like 4 grand, 10 billion diff, and your KNC OCTOBER Jupiter is still making a grand a day.... then what will you say?
Do the numbers...

I do the numbers.. constantly. Analysis, projection, digging up facts, talking through the grapevine.. I do it all. It's my hobby. I estimated a 500million difficulty once the majority of the KNC's were online, and by gum, I was off by fractions at most. My math isn't making ownership of a gen2 Jupiter as favorable as you're predicting.

Unless of course if you define lifetime as 'tomorrow through 10 years from now', then sure it'll eventually make its BTC back. Still, you're behind the curve.

It's practically a staple of the nature of the beast that mining isn't profitable, even long term.

The fact is if you'd invested with that 17 BTC, you'd be ahead of the game already. Mining is constantly behind when you look at 'the numbers'. Yeah, it brings it in.. but the rise in value will be ahead of what you can rake in. Almost always. It's practically a constant in the equation.

I'm not against it, I'm just saying let's be realistic here, using reasonable time frames. And I wouldn't mind having a Jupe, but I'd never pay the price you guys did. I got my Mercury for about 35% under retail. That's a better price for this equipment to truly be favorable to us.

[kendog77]

The good thing about mining equipment is that it is kind of like a bond that is constantly producing income. As long as the miner is producing more than it costs to run, it makes sense to keep it going.

Barring a complete Bitcoin collapse, I can't think of a scenario that makes a Jupiter unprofitable to run for the next year or two.

[Phoenix1969]

Guess we shall see Mota...because I'm on an aggressive re-investment strategy....

[Bitcoinorama]

I probably shouldn't be counting other people's money, but since he has been bragging about it. I feel sorry for phoneix who spent about $12K(by today's btc value) for one of his nov jupiters. No wonder he is a bit quiet lately.

17.4 btc I think the first Nov. one was... hehe...part of the game.....no biggie!

You are fine, ~650GH delivered by first week of december will make over 17.4BTC in it's lifetime most likely, that's what matters right?

Exactly.......    

Hm. I still find pretty much all mining equipment heavily overprized for the fact that no asic miner company had any money of their own invested and pretty much financed all with the preorder money.
If they had used venture capital the price would be adequate, but raking in so much profit with a loss for the miners is not only morally wrong but will eventually lead to alternative approaches to the mining equipment production problem. They only damage their own consumer base with that...

Let's look at it this way,

Current Jupiter's are making roughly $2,000/Week at current BTC prices. What does this value the machine at? Most likely more than $8,000 which is greater than it's original value. BTC is going up so the machines worth in USD will continue to hover around the purchase price.

In 6 month from now if BTC price continues to escalate at the same rate as difficulty or great, you will have close to the BTC you could have purchased at the time AND a machine that has value. That's how I see it, the machine will always maintain some sort of value as long as BTC/USD price increases. Plus it's much more fun to mine than hold coin

I am doing it. However, I could have bought 162,5 btc at 80€ when I bought my first order. I will not EVER see 162,5 btc in mining returns. The sad fact is that the increase in btc price is detrimental for every miner since higher btc rate means more people buying mining rigs "since you can't measure the price to buy a miner in btc, you have to see your ROI in $, duh". Sad fact is that no asic company will honor any kind of regulation regarding mining equipment sales and you can be sure that the next gen will be even more overpriced e.g."since btc prices are rising we have to adjust our prices to the current market value and so our next gen device will have 2TH at 700W for a very cheap 17k$" (and hey, thats only!! 17 btc at 1000$/btc)

KNC Customers operating @ a loss?   You are surely on a different planet, or doing something wrong.... OMG.

Yes. I live on the planet got both my orders more than 2 weeks late. And even with that 25 btc more I would still not see any kind of btc ROI ever. But hey, maybe transactions will multiply ten thousandfold and we will see blocks with 35+btc and my units will make 80 btc each.

But hey,

Plus it's much more fun to mine than hold coin

I fully agree with that and when bitcoins reach 20k$ I will just buy one Island less and live happily ever after.

Yeah?, and two years from now, when BTC is like 4 grand, 10 billion diff, and your KNC OCTOBER Jupiter is still making a grand a day.... then what will you say?
Do the numbers...

Then I call bullshit since by then the diff would still be exactly so high that you would only get a marginal proft from it because everyone who thinks like you will have bought a miner "because it could make me a grand a day when the price rises again"

Seriously?! And you think VC wouldn't want a pound of flesh? Or maybe mine for themselves? Pricing was initially based upon covering non recurring engineering costs divisible by interest obtained prior to pitching to ORSoC, which was 1,000+ people, and that's without profit, now it's competitive fair market value. You would be paying more if VC were on board. Dependent on the level of interest there may not be any public sale tendered with VC.

Furthermore if you believe in the social financial project that Bitcoin is, why would you risk a purchase with them? Pay with cash if you are bullish on coin, especially for something you have to wait a period of time for, by that logic it the coin would always assume a greater value, especially when that value is relative to scarcity, and adoption. Increased media interest alone since the ECB/Cypriot cash grab in April is enough to justify that...

[vesperwillow]

Guess we shall see Mota...because I'm on an agressive re-investment strategy....

For folks who made plenty of coin beyond initial cost during the first round (which I think you were one of the few in that category), it makes sense to reinvest and get more equipment, because you're further ahead of the curve than others. That's if memory serves me correctly.

Still, it's not going to last as long as some folks hope; I think this is one of the few times you and I have differing opinions.

We have to remember, the difficulty hop coming in the next 60 days isn't going to be trite, choking out a lot of mining efforts.

Still, I'm cheering everyone on.. you as well. Mining is super fun.

[davewr2013]

Is anyone seeing movement on their UPS or is it just a label?

I have. They've been and gone.

With boards...

Yup.

Export SCAN has been done on our package...

[Phoenix1969]

Guess we shall see Mota...because I'm on an agressive re-investment strategy....

For folks who made plenty of coin beyond initial cost during the first round (which I think you were one of the few in that category), it makes sense to reinvest and get more equipment, because you're further ahead of the curve than others. That's if memory serves me correctly.

Still, it's not going to last as long as some folks hope; I think this is one of the few times you and I have differing opinions.

We have to remember, the difficulty hop coming in the next 60 days isn't going to be trite, choking out a lot of mining efforts.

Still, I'm cheering everyone on.. you as well. Mining is super fun.

Let's see which strategy comes out on top......
While you are waiting for "Off the shelf" ASIC products, or investing fiat for BTC, I'll be accumulating hashpower as it becomes orderable...... all with my original investment.
Let's compare then 6 months, or a year from now....   

[Mota]

According to the Winklevoss twins...BTC is worth 100x it's current value in 2 years....
That's 50 grand a BTC.....  Who knows how high it will go!.... We are in the INFANCY of BTC still!  Best days are yet to come, seriously.
about 75% of America has yet to even hear of bitcoin for the first time...

Because the Winklevoss twins are the GO-TO adress regarding market cap values for a given time period.   Maybe their let's see into the future device is better than mine...
Wile it is true what you say, what has that to do with overpricing in mining hardware?

Would you buy mining rights for a goldmine with an estimated value of 20 million for 30 million "because gold is still in it's infancy and the price could (insert multiplier here)"?

You would most certainly not. And so mining hardware which gives such a !!!good ROI!!! because !!!price for btc rises since it's in it's infancy!!! is overpriced when the estimated amount of btc you can get back is lower than the amount you could have bought/you used to buy the equipment for.

[vesperwillow]

While you are waiting for "Off the shelf" ASIC products, or investing fiat for BTC, I'll be accumulating hashpower as it becomes orderable...... all with my original investment.
Let's compare then 6 months, or a year from now....   

I'm not waiting for off the shelf products, I just say it's the best method. Off the shelf already exists.. obtain mining equipment from burned out people for far less than retail. It's working fine for me. I may even have a Jupiter soon for half what you paid, delivered at the same time. There are companies who are working on off-the-shelf methods as we speak, and they will leave the others in the dust once they take off.

Yes, if you stay ahead of the average curve you'll do well, but I'm still ahead of you "based on the numbers". By the time you positive-ROI with your 17BTC, I'm already ahead of you (x)BTC * Days.

You have to also understand, I'm spread across holding, trading, selling equipment, mining, etc. We both have our methods. I'm not saying mine is better or I'll be richer.

I'm just saying, you'd be ahead of the curve by default having reinvested the BTC, because the difficulty will reach a loss situation. You'll see 200..300GH going for a couple hundred bucks in just a few months, because Jupiters will be the new Block Erupters.

Unless you plan on living entirely on BTC, in which case you're set for the most part.

[Mota]

Guess we shall see Mota...because I'm on an agressive re-investment strategy....

For folks who made plenty of coin beyond initial cost during the first round (which I think you were one of the few in that category), it makes sense to reinvest and get more equipment, because you're further ahead of the curve than others. That's if memory serves me correctly.

Still, it's not going to last as long as some folks hope; I think this is one of the few times you and I have differing opinions.

We have to remember, the difficulty hop coming in the next 60 days isn't going to be trite, choking out a lot of mining efforts.

Still, I'm cheering everyone on.. you as well. Mining is super fun.

Let's see which strategy comes out on top......
While you are waiting for "Off the shelf" ASIC products, or investing fiat for BTC, I'll be accumulating hashpower as it becomes orderable...... all with my original investment.
Let's compare then 6 months, or a year from now....   

Because accumulating when it's orderable will in no way highten the hashrate at all.... In your case I would advise you to buy all the jupiters off Ebay etc. in order to keep the hashrate as stable as possible... I really hope for your sake that you strategy works! I for myself will definitely wait for affordable hardware before I buy next. Maybe some of the whales are inclined to invest in a community based asic-miner production in the form of a non profit organisation or a German e.V...
Now that would be a dream come true.

[Phoenix1969]

Not my Island, but bitcoin is finally reaching Hawaii....
We are always behnd tech wise.... lol.
http://www.meetup.com/BitcoinHawaii/events/151024242/?gj=wc1d.1_e&a=wc1d.1_gnl&rv=wc1d.1_e&_af_eid=151024242&_af=event

[monsieur]

I probably shouldn't be counting other people's money, but since he has been bragging about it. I feel sorry for phoneix who spent about $12K(by today's btc value) for one of his nov jupiters. No wonder he is a bit quiet lately.

You sound upset.

No, just fun observation. With this btc rise i start to feel like i overpaid for upgrade modules also.

Will this ever end?  

Unless you are going to buy and hold BTC with every cent you come across during every run up untill...?   And no crash ever happens....
If not, you are just second guessing and most likely just sitting on cash and hardly in the game

Buying KNC miners is like storing your BTC in a bank that only lets you withdraw a certain amount per day.  Helps to keep you in the game without selling everything at the first 20% jump.

These miners are the closest ones to get you back the same amount of BTC in as out as well..  even if it is 80% less the fact you are forced to hold in a massive bullrally as been a winning combination.

Actions are what matters, not hindsight

 

When i said "overpaid" i didn't mean that it will not pay itself off. I meant starting to feel like "overpaid" compared to buying november preorder with fiat. In hindsight of course. I don't blame knc btw (aside from them not allowing paying with credit card/paypal for upgrade modules), as they don't get bitcoins anyway.

[1l1l11ll1l]

What do you do to get your upgrade modules cooled when they have no place to mount?

Moar pictures:
http://imgur.com/a/yzwaN

[FUKT]

I probably shouldn't be counting other people's money, but since he has been bragging about it. I feel sorry for phoneix who spent about $12K(by today's btc value) for one of his nov jupiters. No wonder he is a bit quiet lately.

17.4 btc I think the first Nov. one was... hehe...part of the game.....no biggie!

You are fine, ~650GH delivered by first week of december will make over 17.4BTC in it's lifetime most likely, that's what matters right?

Exactly.......     

Hm. I still find pretty much all mining equipment heavily overprized for the fact that no asic miner company had any money of their own invested and pretty much financed all with the preorder money.
If they had used venture capital the price would be adequate, but raking in so much profit with a loss for the miners is not only morally wrong but will eventually lead to alternative approaches to the mining equipment production problem. They only damage their own consumer base with that...

KNC Customers operating @ a loss?   You are surely on a different planet, or doing something wrong.... OMG.

^^^Wrong^^^