Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com

[davewr2013]

You have no faith in the power of people and protest? Maybe you're right but often when something is wrong and enough people get behind it, the problem is solved.

I would liken a lot of the behavior here more to a monkey throwing poop than a protest to enact change...

Far more articulate than my response -- actually!
 

rotflmao -- twice over!

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[davewr2013]

Apollo 13 will run on 7 of 8 if I keep the bedroom door closed to keep the temperature in the tropical range, but goes to six if I leave it open too long.

Would be interesting to see what the chips do with water cooling.  The nice thing about water is it has a high heat capacity so it takes a lot of heating or cooling to change the temp more than a degree.  Some variable speed fans on a radiator and you might be able to keep the chip "warm" without needing to keep the ambient temp warm.  Certainly would be more wife/girlfriend friendly than devoting one room to tropical temps.

I asked about the feasibility of using liquid cooling a few pages ago and just about got ran out of town for being an idiot.  Apparently this is a dumb idea for some reason.  

It can be a serious pain to design and install -- but it is highly efficient and sometimes the only answer to cooling a high speed system.

This is generally not a highly technical crowd -- with some very notable exceptions -- what did you expect to hear?

Is it a good idea? It could be expensive -- and that might make it a bad idea. Beyond that -- I dunno! Get a quote and think about it.

One of the Cray designs stuck with older technology and water cooling to achieve the speed (clock rate) they desired.

Some of my fast AMD 8 core systems are convection / fanless cooled with heat pipe technologies -- so big deal. It just costs more.

[davewr2013]

That's the heatsink on the fans lol
World record price for a fan?

Hilarious to see my next email doing the one thing I knew it would...ty and sell me more overpriced hardware. And bragging.

Odd how a modular system is suddenly not compatible with it's month later cousins..seems to me to negate the entire principle of modular systems.

A fool and his (non refundable.."we learned some lessons")  bitcoins are soon parted.

Bitfury did the same thing with their second batch.

I guess we could ask them nicely if they would please stop improving the design.  

You are both bang on on the desirability (or lack thereof) of a change that breaks compatibility between modules.

I saw somewhere that they could not obtain some critical components. Whether it was a manufacturing shortage or an End of Life (EOL) situation I don't recall -- and there may have been more than one. One was the Voltage Regulator I understand -- there may have been other issues as well.

The phrase you never want to hear is NRND -- Not recommended for new Designs -- jut as you near completion. It happened to me with the TI chips -- the LM3S series of M3 processors (little brothers to the BeaglBone processors in the KNC units -- in a way)

They were replaced with "somewhat incompatible" Tivia M4 style chips requiring that most hardware be re-designed and some significant programming changes be made. But what's $50K - $100K between buddies eh? No problem -- which is why my shop is full of Atmel, FreeScale and ST Micro now...

So this is not an unknown problem -- even if preventable -- but only at the chip manufacturing level.

[xstr8guy]

Apollo 13 will run on 7 of 8 if I keep the bedroom door closed to keep the temperature in the tropical range, but goes to six if I leave it open too long.

Would be interesting to see what the chips do with water cooling.  The nice thing about water is it has a high heat capacity so it takes a lot of heating or cooling to change the temp more than a degree.  Some variable speed fans on a radiator and you might be able to keep the chip "warm" without needing to keep the ambient temp warm.  Certainly would be more wife/girlfriend friendly than devoting one room to tropical temps.

I asked about the feasibility of using liquid cooling a few pages ago and just about got ran out of town for being an idiot.  Apparently this is a dumb idea for some reason.  

It can be a serious pain to design and install -- but it is highly efficient and sometimes the only answer to cooling a high speed system.

This is generally not a highly technical crowd -- with some very notable exceptions -- what did you expect to hear?

Is it a good idea? It could be expensive -- and that might make it a bad idea. Beyond that -- I dunno! Get a quote and think about it.

One of the Cray designs stuck with older technology and water cooling to achieve the speed (clock rate) they desired.

Some of my fast AMD 8 core systems are convection / fanless cooled with heat pipe technologies -- so big deal. It just costs more.

I wasn't asking about immersive cooling.  That's waaayyyy beyond my capabilities.  I was just asking about off-the-shelf kits like the Corsair line.

[davewr2013]

Apollo 13 will run on 7 of 8 if I keep the bedroom door closed to keep the temperature in the tropical range, but goes to six if I leave it open too long.

Would be interesting to see what the chips do with water cooling.  The nice thing about water is it has a high heat capacity so it takes a lot of heating or cooling to change the temp more than a degree.  Some variable speed fans on a radiator and you might be able to keep the chip "warm" without needing to keep the ambient temp warm.  Certainly would be more wife/girlfriend friendly than devoting one room to tropical temps.

I asked about the feasibility of using liquid cooling a few pages ago and just about got ran out of town for being an idiot.  Apparently this is a dumb idea for some reason.  

It can be a serious pain to design and install -- but it is highly efficient and sometimes the only answer to cooling a high speed system.

This is generally not a highly technical crowd -- with some very notable exceptions -- what did you expect to hear?

Is it a good idea? It could be expensive -- and that might make it a bad idea. Beyond that -- I dunno! Get a quote and think about it.

One of the Cray designs stuck with older technology and water cooling to achieve the speed (clock rate) they desired.

Some of my fast AMD 8 core systems are convection / fanless cooled with heat pipe technologies -- so big deal. It just costs more.

I wasn't asking about immersive cooling.  That's waaayyyy beyond my capabilities.  I was just asking about off-the-shelf kits like the Corsair line.

Like what? If it can cool the 300-350 watts (320 Nominal) from the chips and it's a mechanical fit -- don't see why not.

I saw your question earlier  in a "fly-by" but assumed someone would answer it in a reasonable fashion. Guess not.

What unit exactly were you thinking of? I can give an opinion -- it's worth every cent you paid me. Somebody above my pay grade could likely comment as well.

Just ask if they studied electrical engineering... lol

Kinda sorta like this -- only the right size and all that?
http://www.corsair.com/us/cpu-cooling-kits/hydro-series-water-cooling-cpu-cooler/hydro-series-h60-high-performance-liquid-cpu-cooler.html

Just curious...

I don't see a problem myself -- it's just another cooling technology....

Edit: Looks like I accidentally found the unit that is specced for the same Intel Chip series as the Fan Tower coolers...
Whole series here:
http://www.corsair.com/us/catalogsearch/result/?q=Liquid+Cooler+AMD+3%2B


See the Chips covered here for example...
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835186058

and compare it to the Liquid cooler.

Specs match -- so if it doesn't burn too brightly (lol) should be OK. If you need sunglasses -- it's not working -- OK?

$0.05 please -- we don't have pennies any more here in Canuckistan.

One more Note:
Some of the units mention USB and Software. Caution: Some (or all?) may require a PC to drive them (efficiently?) -- maybe not. Again a Call to Corsair could do the trick.

[DeathAndTaxes]

Apollo 13 will run on 7 of 8 if I keep the bedroom door closed to keep the temperature in the tropical range, but goes to six if I leave it open too long.

Would be interesting to see what the chips do with water cooling.  The nice thing about water is it has a high heat capacity so it takes a lot of heating or cooling to change the temp more than a degree.  Some variable speed fans on a radiator and you might be able to keep the chip "warm" without needing to keep the ambient temp warm.  Certainly would be more wife/girlfriend friendly than devoting one room to tropical temps.

I asked about the feasibility of using liquid cooling a few pages ago and just about got ran out of town for being an idiot.  Apparently this is a dumb idea for some reason.  

It is kinda sad.  The miner sub forums at one time were a place to experiment, today it if you deleted every post which deals with return on investment it would be a ghost town.  I wouldn't do anything today.  The "daily value" of a new rig is still too high.  The downtime and potential for problems are more expensive when the revenue rate is this high.  In time difficulty will go up and what a rig makes per day will go down and then it will make more sense to experiment again (you have less to lose). 

Keep in mind KNC used a custom bar to attach the I30/A30 heatsink to the pcb.  The bar has holes in the right place to attach to that heatsink, they aren't using the "standard" bracket which comes with the heatsink.  Using a different heatsink (or waterblock) would either need mounting holes in the exact same spots (unlikely) or someone making a "custom mounting bracket".  It would have been easier if KNC used the standard AMD or Intel mounting holes, then any compatible waterblock by any vendor would fit.

[davewr2013]

Apollo 13 will run on 7 of 8 if I keep the bedroom door closed to keep the temperature in the tropical range, but goes to six if I leave it open too long.

Would be interesting to see what the chips do with water cooling.  The nice thing about water is it has a high heat capacity so it takes a lot of heating or cooling to change the temp more than a degree.  Some variable speed fans on a radiator and you might be able to keep the chip "warm" without needing to keep the ambient temp warm.  Certainly would be more wife/girlfriend friendly than devoting one room to tropical temps.

I asked about the feasibility of using liquid cooling a few pages ago and just about got ran out of town for being an idiot.  Apparently this is a dumb idea for some reason.  

It is kinda sad.  The miner sub forums at one time were a place to experiment, today it if you deleted every post which deals with return on investment it would be a ghost town.  I wouldn't do anything today.  The "daily value" of a new rig is still too high.  The downtime and potential for problems are more expensive when the revenue rate is this high.  In time difficulty will go up and what a rig makes per day will go down and then it will make more sense to experiment again (you have less to lose). 

Keep in mind KNC used a custom bar to attach the I30/A30 heatsink to the pcb.  The bar has holes in the right place to attach to that heatsink, they aren't using the "standard" bracket which comes with the heatsink.  Using a different heatsink (or waterblock) would either need mounting holes in the exact same spots (unlikely) or someone making a "custom mounting bracket".  It would have been easier if KNC used the standard AMD or Intel mounting holes, then any compatible waterblock by any vendor would fit.

Indeed -- it does look like only a mechanical mounting issue.

Taking a scaled drawing to a shop that carries the units or a drawing emailed back and forth the Corsair guys should sort it out right quick.

As for the first para -- it is a leaky boat isn't it? Better start rowing faster! lol

[DPoS]

Yeesh this is a lot of bickering.

Either they will offer a partial refund or something for the seemingly high modules shipping charge (more than the charge to ship a whole miner) and it will be KnC.rep++, or they won't and it will be KnC.rep--.

Either way, I plan to say no more on the subject absent any further developments.

I agree that the shipping price seems high but I don't understand why people expect a refund. If they felt shipping was too high then why did they submit the order in the first place? I'm sure there are plenty of people willing to pay KNC's asking price.

Really, is that how far your logic goes??   Seriously?

umm  because web checkouts sometimes have mistakes perhaps??  if not, oh well, but people weren't going to stop and ask when it sells out in 5 mins..
That doesn't mean people won't ask if there was a mistake in the shipping calc.  Pretty civil behavior

[davewr2013]

Yeesh this is a lot of bickering.

Either they will offer a partial refund or something for the seemingly high modules shipping charge (more than the charge to ship a whole miner) and it will be KnC.rep++, or they won't and it will be KnC.rep--.

Either way, I plan to say no more on the subject absent any further developments.

I agree that the shipping price seems high but I don't understand why people expect a refund. If they felt shipping was too high then why did they submit the order in the first place? I'm sure there are plenty of people willing to pay KNC's asking price.

Really, is that how far your logic goes??   Seriously?

umm  because web checkouts sometimes have mistakes perhaps??  if not, oh well, but people weren't going to stop and ask when it sells out in 5 mins..
That doesn't mean people won't ask if there was a mistake in the shipping calc.  Pretty civil behavior

Do a favour for all of us and write a polite letter to KNC requesting a re-evaluation of their policy.

I don't think anybody here has an issue with questioning the policy -- more it's about the tone of the constant complaints when a volunteer to write a polite note and ask for a response that could be reported back to the group was all that was ever required.

Now that you have identified the need -- everyone would appreciate your reporting back.

Thank you.

It's that simple.

[DPoS]

Keep in mind KNC used a custom bar to attach the I30/A30 heatsink to the pcb.  The bar has holes in the right place to attach to that heatsink, they aren't using the "standard" bracket which comes with the heatsink.  Using a different heatsink (or waterblock) would either need mounting holes in the exact same spots (unlikely) or someone making a "custom mounting bracket".  It would have been easier if KNC used the standard AMD or Intel mounting holes, then any compatible waterblock by any vendor would fit.

That's child's play..  us Jupiter owners have the task of creating our own mounting platform..  Perhaps I drill a few holes in some nice slaterock from the yard for some nice looking lunar landing miners??

Either that or put the 3D printer to use for something truly abstract

[davewr2013]

Keep in mind KNC used a custom bar to attach the I30/A30 heatsink to the pcb.  The bar has holes in the right place to attach to that heatsink, they aren't using the "standard" bracket which comes with the heatsink.  Using a different heatsink (or waterblock) would either need mounting holes in the exact same spots (unlikely) or someone making a "custom mounting bracket".  It would have been easier if KNC used the standard AMD or Intel mounting holes, then any compatible waterblock by any vendor would fit.

That's child's play..  us Jupiter owners have the task of creating our own mounting platform..  Perhaps I drill a few holes in some nice slaterock from the yard for some nice looking lunar landing miners??

Either that or put the 3D printer to use for something truly abstract

Mount them on top of the case and submit photos.

Ittsa gonna look so cool!

Spaceship time!

[DPoS]

Do a favour for all of us and write a polite letter to KNC requesting a re-evaluation of their policy.


It's that simple.

did that within the first hour...  no reply yet


-------- Original Message --------
Subject:    Upgrades - multiple shipping discount?
Date:    Tue, 12 Nov 2013 08:58:19 -0500
To:    sales@kncminer.com


Hello,

I ordered two upgrade modules, but I am wondering if you are shipping in
one box?
If so, shouldn't shipping be much cheaper than $68 each?

Are you shipping each in their own box?  If so, why not put all in one box?

thanks

[davewr2013]

Do a favour for all of us and write a polite letter to KNC requesting a re-evaluation of their policy.


It's that simple.

did that within the first hour...  no reply yet


-------- Original Message --------
Subject:    Upgrades - multiple shipping discount?
Date:    Tue, 12 Nov 2013 08:58:19 -0500
To:    sales@kncminer.com


Hello,

I ordered two upgrade modules, but I am wondering if you are shipping in
one box?
If so, shouldn't shipping be much cheaper than $68 each?

Are you shipping each in their own box?  If so, why not put all in one box?

thanks

Why thank you.

You are a scholar and a Gentleman!

Note:

Could any other concerned people duplicate his email to sales?

I have asked our KNC account holder to dupe this email.

[xstr8guy]

I wasn't asking about immersive cooling.  That's waaayyyy beyond my capabilities.  I was just asking about off-the-shelf kits like the Corsair line.

Like what? If it can cool the 300-350 watts (320 Nominal) from the chips and it's a mechanical fit -- don't see why not.

I saw your question earlier  in a "fly-by" but assumed someone would answer it in a reasonable fashion. Guess not.

What unit exactly were you thinking of? I can give an opinion -- it's worth every cent you paid me. Somebody above my pay grade could likely comment as well.

Just ask if they studied electrical engineering... lol

Kinda sorta like this -- only the right size and all that?
http://www.corsair.com/us/cpu-cooling-kits/hydro-series-water-cooling-cpu-cooler/hydro-series-h60-high-performance-liquid-cpu-cooler.html

Just curious...

I don't see a problem myself -- it's just another cooling technology....

Edit: Looks like I accidentally found the unit that is specced for the same Intel Chip series as the Fan Tower coolers...
Whole series here:
http://www.corsair.com/us/catalogsearch/result/?q=Liquid+Cooler+AMD+3%2B


See the Chips covered here for example...
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835186058

and compare it to the Liquid cooler.

Specs match -- so if it doesn't burn too brightly (lol) should be OK. If you need sunglasses -- it's not working -- OK?

$0.05 please -- we don't have pennies any more here in Canuckistan.

One more Note:
Some of the units mention USB and Software. Caution: Some (or all?) may require a PC to drive them (efficiently?) -- maybe not. Again a Call to Corsair could do the trick.

Specifically, I was looking at the now discontinued H80... had one left over from a PC build.  And the warning I received about using anything other than Arctic Cooling i30 was that it might not fit with their custom bracket.  And since I ordered two AC i30's already, I guess I'm not really concerned about liquid cooling now.

[davewr2013]

I wasn't asking about immersive cooling.  That's waaayyyy beyond my capabilities.  I was just asking about off-the-shelf kits like the Corsair line.

Like what? If it can cool the 300-350 watts (320 Nominal) from the chips and it's a mechanical fit -- don't see why not.

I saw your question earlier  in a "fly-by" but assumed someone would answer it in a reasonable fashion. Guess not.

What unit exactly were you thinking of? I can give an opinion -- it's worth every cent you paid me. Somebody above my pay grade could likely comment as well.

Just ask if they studied electrical engineering... lol

Kinda sorta like this -- only the right size and all that?
http://www.corsair.com/us/cpu-cooling-kits/hydro-series-water-cooling-cpu-cooler/hydro-series-h60-high-performance-liquid-cpu-cooler.html

Just curious...

I don't see a problem myself -- it's just another cooling technology....

Edit: Looks like I accidentally found the unit that is specced for the same Intel Chip series as the Fan Tower coolers...
Whole series here:
http://www.corsair.com/us/catalogsearch/result/?q=Liquid+Cooler+AMD+3%2B


See the Chips covered here for example...
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835186058

and compare it to the Liquid cooler.

Specs match -- so if it doesn't burn too brightly (lol) should be OK. If you need sunglasses -- it's not working -- OK?

$0.05 please -- we don't have pennies any more here in Canuckistan.

One more Note:
Some of the units mention USB and Software. Caution: Some (or all?) may require a PC to drive them (efficiently?) -- maybe not. Again a Call to Corsair could do the trick.

Specifically, I was looking at the now discontinued H80... had one left over from a PC build.  And the warning I received about using anything other than Arctic Cooling i30 was that it might not fit with their custom bracket.  And since I ordered two AC i30's already, I guess I'm not really concerned about liquid cooling now.

Sheesh -- after all that effort. 

Maybe someone else can give it a try.

It's of value though -- now I know I can get this for our mapping and graphics systems. The info will be useful.

Cheers!

[CYPER]

Yeesh this is a lot of bickering.

Either they will offer a partial refund or something for the seemingly high modules shipping charge (more than the charge to ship a whole miner) and it will be KnC.rep++, or they won't and it will be KnC.rep--.

Either way, I plan to say no more on the subject absent any further developments.

I agree that the shipping price seems high but I don't understand why people expect a refund. If they felt shipping was too high then why did they submit the order in the first place? I'm sure there are plenty of people willing to pay KNC's asking price.

Really, is that how far your logic goes??   Seriously?

umm  because web checkouts sometimes have mistakes perhaps??  if not, oh well, but people weren't going to stop and ask when it sells out in 5 mins..
That doesn't mean people won't ask if there was a mistake in the shipping calc.  Pretty civil behavior

Do a favour for all of us and write a polite letter to KNC requesting a re-evaluation of their policy.

I don't think anybody here has an issue with questioning the policy -- more it's about the tone of the constant complaints when a volunteer to write a polite note and ask for a response that could be reported back to the group was all that was ever required.

Now that you have identified the need -- everyone would appreciate your reporting back.

Thank you.

It's that simple.

Even better. I would call tomorrow and ask politely if there was an error, because 2 things doesn't make sense to me:
1 - It costs significantly more to ship 3 boards than 1, when both packages would probably fall under the same category in terms of weight and size.
2 - Shipping only 3 boards costs more than shipping a whole Jupiter.

[Biffa]

A H80 and an i30 have roughly equivalent performance. Given that it appears these cores actually like running warm, I'm not sure what watercooling would achieve.

But I am obviously not discounting or disparaging giving it a go

Watercooling has been my thing for a while now, my latest creation (bit OTT) was a quad Titan monster. Most of which I sold to buy my Jupiter

[opentoe]

Funny how some people think that somehow since they couldn't "Win the race" buying up the upgrade boards, that KNC still owes them something....  or they got treated unfairly......
Total B.S.  You snooze, you loose..... I did.  

i didn't snooze man, i ordered right at 8am.... the payment system they used had its flaws

"They used"....Bitpay!   There just is no better system.  lol

Well that's bad news! rotflmao  

Dude....   can you imagine how many miners were hitting that page at that moment?
That's like a DDOS attack wave of legit purchases....  This is the very first time, ever, in the history of the world, that this has happened to any miner manufacturer.... think about it....  We are treading in uncharted territory. There are bound to be weak points; and KNC can't be held responsible for Bitpay's server's ping status.
ALSO...  ERROR 404 could have been shown to you by Bitpay because KNC were already sold out, or over-pinged as well.
I wish I was able to buy a few....  oh well...  This is a very competitive venue.


edit...Biffa...  No, alone in a huge empty house tryin' to stay awake to 3am....ug.
maybe that would have helped... lol
I knew I should have set an alarm....won't happen again, I assure you!

Its really not such a big deal. Only selling 200 of then and they were sought after, network issues were bound to happen. If they had an unlimited supply, there would have been no issues. The amount they sold was the key factor making what happened, happen.

[davewr2013]

Yeesh this is a lot of bickering.

Either they will offer a partial refund or something for the seemingly high modules shipping charge (more than the charge to ship a whole miner) and it will be KnC.rep++, or they won't and it will be KnC.rep--.

Either way, I plan to say no more on the subject absent any further developments.

I agree that the shipping price seems high but I don't understand why people expect a refund. If they felt shipping was too high then why did they submit the order in the first place? I'm sure there are plenty of people willing to pay KNC's asking price.

Really, is that how far your logic goes??   Seriously?

umm  because web checkouts sometimes have mistakes perhaps??  if not, oh well, but people weren't going to stop and ask when it sells out in 5 mins..
That doesn't mean people won't ask if there was a mistake in the shipping calc.  Pretty civil behavior

Do a favour for all of us and write a polite letter to KNC requesting a re-evaluation of their policy.

I don't think anybody here has an issue with questioning the policy -- more it's about the tone of the constant complaints when a volunteer to write a polite note and ask for a response that could be reported back to the group was all that was ever required.

Now that you have identified the need -- everyone would appreciate your reporting back.

Thank you.

It's that simple.

Even better. I would call tomorrow and ask politely if there was an error, because 2 things doesn't make sense to me:
1 - It costs significantly more to ship 3 boards than 1, when both packages would probably fall under the same category in terms of weight and size.
2 - Shipping only 3 boards costs more than shipping a whole Jupiter.

I agree with your position and I know that a lot of people would appreciate it if you could call.

Thank you as well.

I too thought the shipping was outrageous -- but if you wanna play you gotta throw the money on the table. Maybe it's a weight issue -- maybe it's just a little larceny -- it would be nice to know.

Regardless I paid for two units -- and two outrageous shipping charges -- and I might even get the units some day.

..and then I found out I needed two cooling towers and then I didn't realize I could get the cheaper units... That's life eh?

So even a bit of relief would be pleasant.

But what's done is done.


Cheers, and again thank you for doing the necessary.

[davewr2013]

A H80 and an i30 have roughly equivalent performance. Given that it appears these cores actually like running warm, I'm not sure what watercooling would achieve.

But I am obviously not discounting or disparaging giving it a go

Watercooling has been my thing for a while now, my latest creation (bit OTT) was a quad Titan monster. Most of which I sold to buy my Jupiter

I have tried hot and cold -- no difference.

I cannot cool them below 52C (I have tried up to 65C) and maybe that would be better. I don't know cause I can't test.

So I am agnostic on the hot/cold issue.

And it is a cool monster (Pun intended)!