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Author Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com  (Read 3007449 times)
markm
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November 12, 2013, 10:38:34 PM
 #21241

The termcap (terminal capabilities) the curses library (cursor control) is using by default might be one for a linux textmode terminal, possibly putty might default to a strictly correct vt100 emulation or something. If you can find out what termcaps entry putty uses, or set it to the one you are actually using, that could help maybe.

Check putty help screens for stuff about terminal emulations maybe?

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November 12, 2013, 10:43:15 PM
 #21242

Apollo 13 will run on 7 of 8 if I keep the bedroom door closed to keep the temperature in the tropical range, but goes to six if I leave it open too long.

Would be interesting to see what the chips do with water cooling.  The nice thing about water is it has a high heat capacity so it takes a lot of heating or cooling to change the temp more than a degree.  Some variable speed fans on a radiator and you might be able to keep the chip "warm" without needing to keep the ambient temp warm.  Certainly would be more wife/girlfriend friendly than devoting one room to tropical temps.
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November 12, 2013, 10:52:00 PM
 #21243

What's that word, again?

Schadenfreude.

Describes bitcoin in three syllables.

Isn't that 4 syllables?


Depends on how you pronounce it... the right way or the wrong way.   Grin
timmmers
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November 12, 2013, 10:52:09 PM
 #21244

Just caught up on this thread a bit more, and the absurdity/greed made me spew coffee all over my screen.
How do you spend a grand on a module that you don't know will run in your rig? Not only that incredibly dimwitted thing..but criticise others in the same thread who express logical concerns? Couldn't make it up. Logic left here.
davewr2013
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November 12, 2013, 10:54:08 PM
 #21245

Or they could get together -- start a mining company and solicit our business.

I would give them a fair shake at earning my business.

I just don't want to see any of the problems they are complaining about..

As somebody once explained to me... "You can work for an idiot, or you can start your own company and let people complain about your idiocy." Sooooo I started my own company.... It's soooo much simpler. Now I never whine and complain....

Exactly. We have the easy part in this amazing era of ASIC mining which mostly includes a ton of research and picking which pre-order to bet on which is a lot easier than bringing an ASIC to market.

I'm not saying we should just bend over and take it but some of this crap is just ridiculous. So many posts raging about how they got SCREWED by TERRIBLE KNC when they couldn't buy an upgrade when really they just got beat to the draw since they weren't savvy enough to properly prepare for the rush and have their trigger finger on a wallet properly loaded with BTC.


*crosses fingers*

You have no faith in the power of people and protest? Maybe you're right but often when something is wrong and enough people get behind it, the problem is solved.


Fair enough -- but this is beginning to remind me of the useless protests against the 1%.

Why? It looks to me like we have 100 factions fighting for their viewpoint -- so which protest group gets the fix? Which 1% faction -- eh?

I bought a Saturn -- so I felt that people with Saturns should get first priority (cause we paid more and as a group we are decidedly more handsome and articulate) -- people with Mercury units should get second opportunity and the Jupiter crowd could go whistle.

So -- I propose we cancel all the orders from Jupiter owners and re-position them with Saturn and Mercury owners.

So there is my protest vote -- and it's obviously correct -- so why don't you just back off and let my view win out? Now that you know what is right thinking and can see what is wrong thinking!

I agree the shipping price was too high -- so I think all the overcharges should be refunded -- to me. They have offended my tender sensibilities  Angry Angry  Cry  so I deserve extra compensation. OK?

Now, can we vote?




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davewr2013
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November 12, 2013, 10:58:44 PM
 #21246

Just caught up on this thread a bit more, and the absurdity/greed made me spew coffee all over my screen.

How do you spend a grand on a module that you don't know will run in your rig? Not only that incredibly dimwitted thing..but criticise others in the same thread who express logical concerns? Couldn't make it up. Logic left here.

At least you understand Human Nature....

To criticize is easy....

Solving makes my head hurt...

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Tehfiend
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November 12, 2013, 11:04:45 PM
 #21247

Yeesh this is a lot of bickering.

Either they will offer a partial refund or something for the seemingly high modules shipping charge (more than the charge to ship a whole miner) and it will be KnC.rep++, or they won't and it will be KnC.rep--.

Either way, I plan to say no more on the subject absent any further developments.

I agree that the shipping price seems high but I don't understand why people expect a refund. If they felt shipping was too high then why did they submit the order in the first place? I'm sure there are plenty of people willing to pay KNC's asking price.
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November 12, 2013, 11:09:33 PM
 #21248

That's the heatsink on the fans lol
World record price for a fan?

Hilarious to see my next email doing the one thing I knew it would...ty and sell me more overpriced hardware. And bragging.

Odd how a modular system is suddenly not compatible with it's month later cousins..seems to me to negate the entire principle of modular systems.

A fool and his (non refundable.."we learned some lessons")  bitcoins are soon parted. Sad

Bitfury did the same thing with their second batch.

I guess we could ask them nicely if they would please stop improving the design.   Wink
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November 12, 2013, 11:12:40 PM
 #21249

You have no faith in the power of people and protest? Maybe you're right but often when something is wrong and enough people get behind it, the problem is solved.

I would liken a lot of the behavior here more to a monkey throwing poop than a protest to enact change...
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November 12, 2013, 11:13:49 PM
 #21250

Apollo 13 will run on 7 of 8 if I keep the bedroom door closed to keep the temperature in the tropical range, but goes to six if I leave it open too long.

Would be interesting to see what the chips do with water cooling.  The nice thing about water is it has a high heat capacity so it takes a lot of heating or cooling to change the temp more than a degree.  Some variable speed fans on a radiator and you might be able to keep the chip "warm" without needing to keep the ambient temp warm.  Certainly would be more wife/girlfriend friendly than devoting one room to tropical temps.

I asked about the feasibility of using liquid cooling a few pages ago and just about got ran out of town for being an idiot.  Apparently this is a dumb idea for some reason.   Huh
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November 12, 2013, 11:14:06 PM
 #21251

You have no faith in the power of people and protest? Maybe you're right but often when something is wrong and enough people get behind it, the problem is solved.

I would liken a lot of the behavior here more to a monkey throwing poop than a protest to enact change...

Far more articulate than my response -- actually!
 Cheesy Cheesy Grin

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davewr2013
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November 12, 2013, 11:18:30 PM
 #21252

Apollo 13 will run on 7 of 8 if I keep the bedroom door closed to keep the temperature in the tropical range, but goes to six if I leave it open too long.

Would be interesting to see what the chips do with water cooling.  The nice thing about water is it has a high heat capacity so it takes a lot of heating or cooling to change the temp more than a degree.  Some variable speed fans on a radiator and you might be able to keep the chip "warm" without needing to keep the ambient temp warm.  Certainly would be more wife/girlfriend friendly than devoting one room to tropical temps.

I asked about the feasibility of using liquid cooling a few pages ago and just about got ran out of town for being an idiot.  Apparently this is a dumb idea for some reason.   Huh

It can be a serious pain to design and install -- but it is highly efficient and sometimes the only answer to cooling a high speed system.

This is generally not a highly technical crowd -- with some very notable exceptions -- what did you expect to hear?

Is it a good idea? It could be expensive -- and that might make it a bad idea. Beyond that -- I dunno! Get a quote and think about it.

One of the Cray designs stuck with older technology and water cooling to achieve the speed (clock rate) they desired.

Some of my fast AMD 8 core systems are convection / fanless cooled with heat pipe technologies -- so big deal. It just costs more.


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davewr2013
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November 12, 2013, 11:26:52 PM
 #21253

That's the heatsink on the fans lol
World record price for a fan?

Hilarious to see my next email doing the one thing I knew it would...ty and sell me more overpriced hardware. And bragging.

Odd how a modular system is suddenly not compatible with it's month later cousins..seems to me to negate the entire principle of modular systems.

A fool and his (non refundable.."we learned some lessons")  bitcoins are soon parted. Sad

Bitfury did the same thing with their second batch.

I guess we could ask them nicely if they would please stop improving the design.   Wink

You are both bang on on the desirability (or lack thereof) of a change that breaks compatibility between modules.

I saw somewhere that they could not obtain some critical components. Whether it was a manufacturing shortage or an End of Life (EOL) situation I don't recall -- and there may have been more than one. One was the Voltage Regulator I understand -- there may have been other issues as well.

The phrase you never want to hear is NRND -- Not recommended for new Designs -- jut as you near completion. It happened to me with the TI chips -- the LM3S series of M3 processors (little brothers to the BeaglBone processors in the KNC units -- in a way)

They were replaced with "somewhat incompatible" Tivia M4 style chips requiring that most hardware be re-designed and some significant programming changes be made. But what's $50K - $100K between buddies eh? No problem -- which is why my shop is full of Atmel, FreeScale and ST Micro now...

So this is not an unknown problem -- even if preventable -- but only at the chip manufacturing level.





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November 12, 2013, 11:33:55 PM
 #21254

Apollo 13 will run on 7 of 8 if I keep the bedroom door closed to keep the temperature in the tropical range, but goes to six if I leave it open too long.

Would be interesting to see what the chips do with water cooling.  The nice thing about water is it has a high heat capacity so it takes a lot of heating or cooling to change the temp more than a degree.  Some variable speed fans on a radiator and you might be able to keep the chip "warm" without needing to keep the ambient temp warm.  Certainly would be more wife/girlfriend friendly than devoting one room to tropical temps.

I asked about the feasibility of using liquid cooling a few pages ago and just about got ran out of town for being an idiot.  Apparently this is a dumb idea for some reason.   Huh

It can be a serious pain to design and install -- but it is highly efficient and sometimes the only answer to cooling a high speed system.

This is generally not a highly technical crowd -- with some very notable exceptions -- what did you expect to hear?

Is it a good idea? It could be expensive -- and that might make it a bad idea. Beyond that -- I dunno! Get a quote and think about it.

One of the Cray designs stuck with older technology and water cooling to achieve the speed (clock rate) they desired.

Some of my fast AMD 8 core systems are convection / fanless cooled with heat pipe technologies -- so big deal. It just costs more.



I wasn't asking about immersive cooling.  That's waaayyyy beyond my capabilities.  I was just asking about off-the-shelf kits like the Corsair line.
davewr2013
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November 12, 2013, 11:46:14 PM
 #21255

Apollo 13 will run on 7 of 8 if I keep the bedroom door closed to keep the temperature in the tropical range, but goes to six if I leave it open too long.

Would be interesting to see what the chips do with water cooling.  The nice thing about water is it has a high heat capacity so it takes a lot of heating or cooling to change the temp more than a degree.  Some variable speed fans on a radiator and you might be able to keep the chip "warm" without needing to keep the ambient temp warm.  Certainly would be more wife/girlfriend friendly than devoting one room to tropical temps.

I asked about the feasibility of using liquid cooling a few pages ago and just about got ran out of town for being an idiot.  Apparently this is a dumb idea for some reason.   Huh

It can be a serious pain to design and install -- but it is highly efficient and sometimes the only answer to cooling a high speed system.

This is generally not a highly technical crowd -- with some very notable exceptions -- what did you expect to hear?

Is it a good idea? It could be expensive -- and that might make it a bad idea. Beyond that -- I dunno! Get a quote and think about it.

One of the Cray designs stuck with older technology and water cooling to achieve the speed (clock rate) they desired.

Some of my fast AMD 8 core systems are convection / fanless cooled with heat pipe technologies -- so big deal. It just costs more.



I wasn't asking about immersive cooling.  That's waaayyyy beyond my capabilities.  I was just asking about off-the-shelf kits like the Corsair line.

Like what? If it can cool the 300-350 watts (320 Nominal) from the chips and it's a mechanical fit -- don't see why not.

I saw your question earlier  in a "fly-by" but assumed someone would answer it in a reasonable fashion. Guess not.

What unit exactly were you thinking of? I can give an opinion -- it's worth every cent you paid me. Somebody above my pay grade could likely comment as well.

Just ask if they studied electrical engineering... lol

Kinda sorta like this -- only the right size and all that?
http://www.corsair.com/us/cpu-cooling-kits/hydro-series-water-cooling-cpu-cooler/hydro-series-h60-high-performance-liquid-cpu-cooler.html

Just curious...

I don't see a problem myself -- it's just another cooling technology....

Edit: Looks like I accidentally found the unit that is specced for the same Intel Chip series as the Fan Tower coolers...
Whole series here:
http://www.corsair.com/us/catalogsearch/result/?q=Liquid+Cooler+AMD+3%2B


See the Chips covered here for example...
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835186058

and compare it to the Liquid cooler.

Specs match -- so if it doesn't burn too brightly (lol) should be OK. If you need sunglasses -- it's not working -- OK?

$0.05 please -- we don't have pennies any more here in Canuckistan.

One more Note:
Some of the units mention USB and Software. Caution: Some (or all?) may require a PC to drive them (efficiently?) -- maybe not. Again a Call to Corsair could do the trick.

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DeathAndTaxes
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November 12, 2013, 11:53:59 PM
 #21256

Apollo 13 will run on 7 of 8 if I keep the bedroom door closed to keep the temperature in the tropical range, but goes to six if I leave it open too long.

Would be interesting to see what the chips do with water cooling.  The nice thing about water is it has a high heat capacity so it takes a lot of heating or cooling to change the temp more than a degree.  Some variable speed fans on a radiator and you might be able to keep the chip "warm" without needing to keep the ambient temp warm.  Certainly would be more wife/girlfriend friendly than devoting one room to tropical temps.

I asked about the feasibility of using liquid cooling a few pages ago and just about got ran out of town for being an idiot.  Apparently this is a dumb idea for some reason.   Huh

It is kinda sad.  The miner sub forums at one time were a place to experiment, today it if you deleted every post which deals with return on investment it would be a ghost town.  I wouldn't do anything today.  The "daily value" of a new rig is still too high.  The downtime and potential for problems are more expensive when the revenue rate is this high.  In time difficulty will go up and what a rig makes per day will go down and then it will make more sense to experiment again (you have less to lose). 

Keep in mind KNC used a custom bar to attach the I30/A30 heatsink to the pcb.  The bar has holes in the right place to attach to that heatsink, they aren't using the "standard" bracket which comes with the heatsink.  Using a different heatsink (or waterblock) would either need mounting holes in the exact same spots (unlikely) or someone making a "custom mounting bracket".  It would have been easier if KNC used the standard AMD or Intel mounting holes, then any compatible waterblock by any vendor would fit.



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November 13, 2013, 12:00:19 AM
 #21257

Apollo 13 will run on 7 of 8 if I keep the bedroom door closed to keep the temperature in the tropical range, but goes to six if I leave it open too long.

Would be interesting to see what the chips do with water cooling.  The nice thing about water is it has a high heat capacity so it takes a lot of heating or cooling to change the temp more than a degree.  Some variable speed fans on a radiator and you might be able to keep the chip "warm" without needing to keep the ambient temp warm.  Certainly would be more wife/girlfriend friendly than devoting one room to tropical temps.

I asked about the feasibility of using liquid cooling a few pages ago and just about got ran out of town for being an idiot.  Apparently this is a dumb idea for some reason.   Huh

It is kinda sad.  The miner sub forums at one time were a place to experiment, today it if you deleted every post which deals with return on investment it would be a ghost town.  I wouldn't do anything today.  The "daily value" of a new rig is still too high.  The downtime and potential for problems are more expensive when the revenue rate is this high.  In time difficulty will go up and what a rig makes per day will go down and then it will make more sense to experiment again (you have less to lose). 

Keep in mind KNC used a custom bar to attach the I30/A30 heatsink to the pcb.  The bar has holes in the right place to attach to that heatsink, they aren't using the "standard" bracket which comes with the heatsink.  Using a different heatsink (or waterblock) would either need mounting holes in the exact same spots (unlikely) or someone making a "custom mounting bracket".  It would have been easier if KNC used the standard AMD or Intel mounting holes, then any compatible waterblock by any vendor would fit.


Indeed -- it does look like only a mechanical mounting issue.

Taking a scaled drawing to a shop that carries the units or a drawing emailed back and forth the Corsair guys should sort it out right quick.

As for the first para -- it is a leaky boat isn't it? Better start rowing faster! lol


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November 13, 2013, 12:04:26 AM
 #21258

Yeesh this is a lot of bickering.

Either they will offer a partial refund or something for the seemingly high modules shipping charge (more than the charge to ship a whole miner) and it will be KnC.rep++, or they won't and it will be KnC.rep--.

Either way, I plan to say no more on the subject absent any further developments.

I agree that the shipping price seems high but I don't understand why people expect a refund. If they felt shipping was too high then why did they submit the order in the first place? I'm sure there are plenty of people willing to pay KNC's asking price.


Really, is that how far your logic goes??   Seriously?

umm  because web checkouts sometimes have mistakes perhaps??  if not, oh well, but people weren't going to stop and ask when it sells out in 5 mins..
That doesn't mean people won't ask if there was a mistake in the shipping calc.  Pretty civil behavior


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November 13, 2013, 12:08:17 AM
 #21259

Yeesh this is a lot of bickering.

Either they will offer a partial refund or something for the seemingly high modules shipping charge (more than the charge to ship a whole miner) and it will be KnC.rep++, or they won't and it will be KnC.rep--.

Either way, I plan to say no more on the subject absent any further developments.

I agree that the shipping price seems high but I don't understand why people expect a refund. If they felt shipping was too high then why did they submit the order in the first place? I'm sure there are plenty of people willing to pay KNC's asking price.


Really, is that how far your logic goes??   Seriously?

umm  because web checkouts sometimes have mistakes perhaps??  if not, oh well, but people weren't going to stop and ask when it sells out in 5 mins..
That doesn't mean people won't ask if there was a mistake in the shipping calc.  Pretty civil behavior


Do a favour for all of us and write a polite letter to KNC requesting a re-evaluation of their policy.

I don't think anybody here has an issue with questioning the policy -- more it's about the tone of the constant complaints when a volunteer to write a polite note and ask for a response that could be reported back to the group was all that was ever required.

Now that you have identified the need -- everyone would appreciate your reporting back.

Thank you.

It's that simple.

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November 13, 2013, 12:08:29 AM
 #21260


Keep in mind KNC used a custom bar to attach the I30/A30 heatsink to the pcb.  The bar has holes in the right place to attach to that heatsink, they aren't using the "standard" bracket which comes with the heatsink.  Using a different heatsink (or waterblock) would either need mounting holes in the exact same spots (unlikely) or someone making a "custom mounting bracket".  It would have been easier if KNC used the standard AMD or Intel mounting holes, then any compatible waterblock by any vendor would fit.


That's child's play..  us Jupiter owners have the task of creating our own mounting platform..  Perhaps I drill a few holes in some nice slaterock from the yard for some nice looking lunar landing miners??

Either that or put the 3D printer to use for something truly abstract


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