Liquid Synergy Designs Inc. -ASIC mining hardware

[driksson]

I was part of SebastianJu's groupbuy aswell. I can confirm I got 95% of purchase price back (including the 10% markup).
Which is more than i asked for. I was fine with him keeping the 9.9% he charged as agreed.
I don't know how zefir handled it. maybe he only paid back 100% of the chip purchase cost price, which would indicate he kept the entire markup.

[alfabitcoin]

Sorry alfabitcoin, but not sure I follow? Do you mean if Yifu stated this Delay when the orders went in? IF thats what your saying, then yes I agree with you. Things could have been scheduled more appropriately and could have perhaps allowed ourselves to get better refund options from SB.

I wish that was the case too, as I was expecting to be hashing already and cleaned out my damn office for my boards (I'm a linux engineer and tend to be messy)

Yes, that is I want to say and thanks for agreeing with me.

Further,
I addmit that I was concerned about Steamboat lack of communication this last days. But now I feel better and think that Steve is working on solution with bitsyncom and even consider legal action if things does not work out. Steve has shown that he is serius and feel that he will make us right and for his mining hardware business and in future.

[powpow]

lol  @sneef. Let me fall on my sword, so you can survive.


SB is not Avalon. SB was not the one that failed us here and should be compensated for his time spent on this.

For example, I just had to pay someone to Inspect a house I wanted to buy, and after the inspection, and several hundred dollars later, Had to back out of my contract with the Homeowner.


Should I now tell the Inspector, well I didn't get the house so Im not going to pay you? Absolutely not. If I did that, He would be suing me!


SB was acting as a broker of sorts. We wanted to buy from Yifu, but none of us wanted to buy 10,000 chips at once.


kosta

I'm about to just close this thread out and move on, nothing relevant posted here anymore and updates come via e-mail.  If I was steamboat I would refuse refunds to everyone who isn't happy with the modified terms of a 5% fee.  They can have the original terms, no refund -- enjoy your chips (when you get them).

[kostagr33k]

powpow, you make a good point.


I think we all just need to relax (myself included) . If anyone lives in the NY/NJ area I'm will to buy the first round !! (obviously I don't mean this exact minute, but in the next week or so if anyone is truly interested). Round could be liquor/coffee/tea


Kosta

[driksson]

What's the problem here considering Steamboat is trying to make the best out of a situation that is literally beyond his control?

The problem is that other groupbuys are getting a 100% Refunds.

This is because these other groupbuy operators want to have future successful groupbuys and maintain a reputation as being an extremely honest and fair operator.

Tell me one. SebastianJu only gave 95% back aswell. just as steamboat will.

[jml25]

For those interested in some other things SB has been working on, You can go over to the klondike thread where early on he and his group built and supplied the heatsink design that bkk was using during testing. It also looks like he's been working with Kano on getting K16 support into the 'normal' cgminer (this is a really big deal for those of us running multiple kinds of hardware on the same box).

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=190731.msg3080294#msg3080294

Just thought some of you getting bogged down in this thread might find these details interesting if you hadn't seen em. Even if you're getting your chips done elsewhere these actions benefit a large portion of the community.

[chsados]

The service fee has been reduced to 5%, which seems fair.  Thanks for the update.

Still curious to hear about assembly, parts and shipping.

Seems fair?  This is absolute bullshit.  Steamboat already made 10% on each chip order.  Why does he deserve another 5% for essentially filling out a refund form from Yifu.  Granted he will have to deal with all the paperwork but that was what he signed up for when he organized this group buy - total control.

Why was every other group buy organizer able to provide a 100% chip refund?

This is absolutely outrageous.

Another 5%?  What the fuck are you smoking?  He's refunding 95% of your purchase price.  That's 100% of the chip cost PLUS around 50% of his surcharge.  That means he's ONLY keeping 50% of his surcharge, or around 5% of your total cost.  How can you be a miner and be this bad at math?  Maybe a mutual fund would be better for you, no?

I redacted my statement a few posts later, maybe YOU should learn to read and stop posting your holier than though non constructive posts.

[wrenchmonkey]

Having had the night to sleep on it, and 're-balance my Chi'  , I have calmed down a bit as well. I'm still not happy about SB's taking 5% off the top, but I'm calmed down and withdrawing my threats of legal action toward him at this point.

I still think it was cowardice Steamboat to disappear like he did, since he's not offering any explanation for why he did that; which is honestly what had me worked up to begin with. I think if he'd stayed in communique with everybody, instead of ditching the second things went a bit sour, it would've been better for everybody.

I have to wonder what it is that SB is hiding about his conversations with Yifu. He seems to be pretty bent on making sure that people are locked into taking a loss on their chips if they commit now. Wondering if, in fact, Yifu really IS willing to sweeten the pot, and Steamboat is keeping mum to try and skim more of that cream. Or if he was just trying to cast doubt to make people delay asking for refunds, until it's too late.

I'll give it another 24 hours and see if Yifu comes up with anything further.

[jasinlee]

[andrewsg]

Having had the night to sleep on it, and 're-balance my Chi'  , I have calmed down a bit as well.

It's ok, the coffee reference was priceless.

[kostagr33k]

Not sure if thats accurate wrenchmonkey. SB post said as of right now  he is giving us a refund option.

However, he also stated he is talking with Yifu to see if there are other workarounds to be had. I don't think thats SB not being communicative with us. He has to deal with Yifu and once those discussions are over, I am sure it will be explained to us. I also dont know if theres a second option in the future, if that means anything for SB and his "original offer" (i.e. you can choose your options at that point if BTC was not refunded yet).

Secondly wrenchmonkey, what other option could there be? The only one I see is a discount on Chips that get delivered. I will take that option (if it comes) as I am not seeking a refund. However, If you want a refund, why would you consider  a discount on those chips? Are you afraid that if Yifu decides to give us a discount you will lose out?

All in All, could have been avoided if everything was delivered on time given the "NO BS" terms of Avalon.


blah

kosta

[ibminer]

Believe it!  Our Gods will return soon enough  

[bigbeninlondon]

The service fee has been reduced to 5%, which seems fair.  Thanks for the update.

Still curious to hear about assembly, parts and shipping.

Seems fair?  This is absolute bullshit.  Steamboat already made 10% on each chip order.  Why does he deserve another 5% for essentially filling out a refund form from Yifu.  Granted he will have to deal with all the paperwork but that was what he signed up for when he organized this group buy - total control.

Why was every other group buy organizer able to provide a 100% chip refund?

This is absolutely outrageous.

Another 5%?  What the fuck are you smoking?  He's refunding 95% of your purchase price.  That's 100% of the chip cost PLUS around 50% of his surcharge.  That means he's ONLY keeping 50% of his surcharge, or around 5% of your total cost.  How can you be a miner and be this bad at math?  Maybe a mutual fund would be better for you, no?

I redacted my statement a few posts later, maybe YOU should learn to read and stop posting your holier than though non constructive posts.

Was probably posted while I was posting, I left it up for a bit. 

My post is not "holier than though".  I'm just tired of people getting so worked up about all of this.  Everyone and their mother has been told to "not invest more than you can lose" in bitcoin.  Mining is doubling down on risk.  It's a risky business.  I feel like there is a core of mature, level headed individuals in these threads and a bunch of screaming harpies.  If everyone would gather all of the info before grabbing pitchforks and shouting about how "unfair" life is, everything would go smoother.  All of this other noise just makes it harder to sort out what's really happening.

[chsados]

The service fee has been reduced to 5%, which seems fair.  Thanks for the update.

Still curious to hear about assembly, parts and shipping.

Seems fair?  This is absolute bullshit.  Steamboat already made 10% on each chip order.  Why does he deserve another 5% for essentially filling out a refund form from Yifu.  Granted he will have to deal with all the paperwork but that was what he signed up for when he organized this group buy - total control.

Why was every other group buy organizer able to provide a 100% chip refund?

This is absolutely outrageous.

Another 5%?  What the fuck are you smoking?  He's refunding 95% of your purchase price.  That's 100% of the chip cost PLUS around 50% of his surcharge.  That means he's ONLY keeping 50% of his surcharge, or around 5% of your total cost.  How can you be a miner and be this bad at math?  Maybe a mutual fund would be better for you, no?

I redacted my statement a few posts later, maybe YOU should learn to read and stop posting your holier than though non constructive posts.

Was probably posted while I was posting, I left it up for a bit.  

My post is not "holier than though".  I'm just tired of people getting so worked up about all of this.  Everyone and their mother has been told to "not invest more than you can lose" in bitcoin.  Mining is doubling down on risk.  It's a risky business.  I feel like there is a core of mature, level headed individuals in these threads and a bunch of screaming harpies.  If everyone would gather all of the info before grabbing pitchforks and shouting about how "unfair" life is, everything would go smoother.  All of this other noise just makes it harder to sort out what's really happening.

No, was posted yesterday.  You seem just quick to go off on your recent rants - you are no better than everyone whining.  You are basically whining about the whiners and is essentially the same thing you hate.  

[wrenchmonkey]

Not sure if thats accurate wrenchmonkey. SB post said as of right now  he is giving us a refund option.

However, he also stated he is talking with Yifu to see if there are other workarounds to be had. I don't think thats SB not being communicative with us. He has to deal with Yifu and once those discussions are over, I am sure it will be explained to us. I also dont know if theres a second option in the future, if that means anything for SB and his "original offer" (i.e. you can choose your options at that point if BTC was not refunded yet).

Well, again, it's ambiguous. I don't know WHAT the offer is. Sounds to me like once it's requested, it's final.

Secondly wrenchmonkey, what other option could there be? The only one I see is a discount on Chips that get delivered. I will take that option (if it comes) as I am not seeking a refund.

I would consider this option as well, provided the discount was enough to make ROI attainable. I bought into this group buy with the intent of seeing a return, or at least break-even. I'm not seeking a refund just because I changed my mind. I'm seeking a refund because the terms weren't met. If I can still be made whole then I'm willing to move forward.

However, If you want a refund, why would you consider  a discount on those chips? Are you afraid that if Yifu decides to give us a discount you will lose out?

As I stated above, at this point the refund is an attempt to minimize losses. Taking a 5% loss is more appealing than a 100% loss. But if there's a better option on the table, why wouldn't I want in on that?

All in All, could have been avoided if everything was delivered on time given the "NO BS" terms of Avalon.

You'll get no argument from me. If this is Yifu's idea of "No BS," I'd hate to see what he considers, just a little BS, or moderate BS, or extreme BS.  

Ultimately the responsibility for the deal rests on Yifu, and he's come up wanting.

That doesn't mean that SB's behavior in disappearing for several days with no word except emails saying "no refunds" to the few people who managed to elicit a response is an acceptable way to do business on SB's part either. Like I said, I think it reflects poorly on SB, but I'm over it at this point. It is what it is. Maybe he'd do things differently if he got a do-over. Maybe he has a legitimate excuse for doing what he did. But he's not sharing, so I can only go off of what I know, and what I know is that this type behavior is bad form for somebody who's got control of probably over a million bucks worth of other people's money; and that's bad business.

Maybe I'm a little more edgy about this disappearing bullshit than most though since Raginazin, who headed up another group buy I'm part of, pulled this disappearing act quite some time ago, and there's STILL no word back from him except some bullshit story about him feeling depressed (Unbalanced Chi, perhaps?).

I think it's fair to say that my anger toward Ragin has spilled over toward Steamboat, and I may have come off a little hotter than Steamboat deserved. Like I said, my Chi is much more balanced this morning than it has been the past couple of days.  

[alfabitcoin]

yap, chi and chi(ps) are really important,lol

yifu quote:

to be honest this isn't good for my chi

Maybe it was typo, maybe he meant chips....

Just kidding of course  

I have requested chip refund (80) and signed the refund memo.

[kostagr33k]

lol wrenchmonkey, thanks for clearing that up.

I actually tried to talk with Ragin a long time ago (before I bought into this groupbuy) as he was located only an hour and a half from my house. After reading between Ragins thread and Steamboat, I chose this one and havn't heard from Ragin since.

Sorry to hear that Ragin has disappeared completely, but I do not think thats what Steamboat will do. Other reason I like Steamboat was His previous posts , especially relating to him loaning BTC to other forum members.

If someone is willing to loan BTC to other members on the forum, I found that comforting.


Anyway, I don't know when a refund request becomes "final" but if there were other options, we would have seen them by now. I think its in Steamboats best interested if people took another option, besides full refund, as he will lose money in that venture unfortunately.

Hopefully we can put this behind us soon enough and start hashing, albeit many weeks after the fact.


kosta

[cardcomm]

For those interested in some other things SB has been working on, You can go over to the klondike thread where early on he and his group built and supplied the heatsink design that bkk was using during testing. It also looks like he's been working with Kano on getting K16 support into the 'normal' cgminer (this is a really big deal for those of us running multiple kinds of hardware on the same box).

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=190731.msg3080294#msg3080294

Just thought some of you getting bogged down in this thread might find these details interesting if you hadn't seen em. Even if you're getting your chips done elsewhere these actions benefit a large portion of the community.

That's a fascinating thread that I've been following since the beginning. Without it, I'd have never ordered any chips. I know SB did provide the heatsink, and for all I know provided financial support. I guess I missed how he's "working with Kano on getting K16 support into the 'normal' cgminer". I doubt that's entirely accurate.

On another note, I appreciate the re-posting of the email, but without the refund link, it didn't help much. (I totally understand why the link should not be posted in public).

But I can't request a refund until I get the email! I sent an email request last night to SB requesting a copy, but still nothing. Sent another email this morning signed with the original transaction address.

As if this situation isn't bad enough, I HAVE TO BEG FOR THE EMAIL?! Please Sir, May I Have the Email? Given the "terms" of the refund, I'm not sure I'll go for it. But it would be nice to be given the option like everyone else.

I'd also like to add that his latest update/email is kind of confusing. How are we to make an informed decision regarding refunds if there is a "second part" to the update. There are many unanswered questions, and not enough info to make a a choice.

Sheesh!  <-- poor substitute for the string of obscenities I wanted to type.

[ionstorm]

I'd like an update on progress of the miners steamboat has already made with sample chips, any idea if the firmware bugs have been fixed and if we can see 350mh/s  per chip on these fusion 16’s?  How is everyone powering these? What PSU and USB hub are people using?  I bought a Silverstone strider essential series 600W model:SST-ST60F-ES That has 4x PSI-E power connectors and a few molex to PCIe adapters to power 8 fusion 16's, I'll, be using a paperclip to keep the PSU powering them, unsure about a hub since the Few I looked at by anker are out of stock..

[drewh]

I didn't get the email. Anyone else not on the list?

I also did not get the email. I got a PM telling me the email bounced - they had an incorrect email address. I replied to the PM and also sent an email yesterday - but still have not gotten the form.