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Author Topic: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated  (Read 661724 times)
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wiser
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October 11, 2013, 12:40:06 AM
 #1601

I could offer my opinions all I want, but there isn't really a process that I'm aware of where my opinion could go from me spouting off to an actual change in the way the Devcoin project works.  All I can think of right now is that if someone has a concern about how the payment system is structured, he should express that concern to UnthinkingBit, because so far, he's the only one I know of (and please inform me of other genuine decision makers that I may be missing) who has the authority to make any sort of change to any aspect of the Devcoin project.

With that said, my opinion is that UnthinkingBit should proceed with what is truly going to be most beneficial to the Devcoin project as a whole, even if that means that in the short term I won't get paid as well as a writer.  Once such a decision is made, then I reevaluate my contribution and see if I continue as a writer.  If I choose not to, it's no hard feelings or anything, just moving on.

I can't be any more specific than that because of the gap in my technical knowledge which I mentioned before.

As for my opinion on the proportion of payment writers get, it really depends on what the actual goal of the Devtome is.  If the point is to get Devcoins into as many hands as possible, as in bring them into wider circulation, then I think that system is brilliant.  There's a relatively easy, straightforward way for fairly intelligent but otherwise ordinary people to get lots of Devcoins in their wallets.  The fact that it favors good writers (and the type of writers who most benefit are those who write consistently and prolifically), means that the writers will likely write about Devcoins not just on the Devtome but wherever else they might be writing.  Pair a good writer with a good marketer and you will get the word out.  If the goal is to develop all these cool techie things, then obviously you'd want to make it a sweet deal for the programmers and developers of those things.

Come to think of it, the bounty issue could be solved very easily in any number of ways, one of them being that for certain techie projects that are considered paramount (such as fixing the code to keep DVC on mcxNOW, assuming that will satisfy RS), the bounty isn't a certain number of shares but a percentage of the total pool, or just a plain amount, for example, 10% of generated shares or 18,000,000 DVC, sort of a flip side of limiting the Devtome pool to a certain percentage.

One thing that I would propose is that for those who are interested, one or more proven writers can be "assigned" to each techie project.  I'm not the first to notice that often programmers suffer from an inability to communicate the significance of what they are doing to average nontechnical people such as myself.  Put a writer on that project and give that writer access to the programmers for interviewing, and set up some way that they both benefit from the ensuing article.  Make it worth the programmer's while because I'm sure it will try his patience to have to break it down into baby steps for the writer (probably more than once!), and make it worth the writer's while for having to take the extra step of interviewing the programmer and then putting all the information into a nice engaging story.  There are probably a number of approaches that can be taken for compensation.

I think that one of the issues going on is a huge disconnect between the writers who are nontechnical and just coming on board and the programmers who have been doing cool stuff for a while.  The word about the importance of what the programmers are doing is not getting out because the programmers aren't describing it in plain English.  The writers don't write about these projects because they don't know the first thing about them.  Put the two together and you will have some decent promotional material about each project which can then be widely disseminated to the benefit of writer, programmer, and project.

It's really a matter of prioritizing and then incentivizing what is determined to be the priority.  I'm totally cool with bouncing around ideas like this.  I just don't think it's fair to take out one's frustrations with not liking the current system onto the people who are taking advantage of it.  It's not a crime to make the most of a situation that benefits you, even if that system is for the time being majorly rigged in your favor.  I will definitely continue to make the most of the current system and yes I will be the first to say it's been my lucky break.  But I'm not particularly attached to it going on like this forever, and if/when it changes I'll either adapt or move on, and I'll be better off economically for it as long as I can steer clear of the scams.

Although I personally do tend towards altruism, I believe that an economic system that depends on altruism will not in the long run be sustainable.  For it to work in the long run, it has to work just fine when the majority of the participants are for the most part looking out for their own interests.  I'm not talking about survival of the fittest or dog eat dog, just people going along trying to better their lives and doing what's best for them while still being generally ethical.  The reality is that this is how most people operate, so you want your currency to work for them and still accomplish the overall goals.

Weisoq, I don't think you understand where I'm coming from here/..
I’m not a Devcoin coder, developer or activist either. I first arrived at this site and devtome a couple of months before you did. However we're both able to form intelligent, informed conclusions about the pros/cons of several basic aspects of supply and demand.

Your general points - as I think I’ve made clear I’m not apportioning any blame on you or anyone else in particular, only onto the system. I highlighted some element of a process for you only because it made a point and I was replying to you. That ‘writers’ broadly are being scapegoated is because that is what is indeed to blame - 75% + related shares of dvc go to devtome writers.

I’m annoyed at the general apathy and shrugging by those accruing most monetary benefit from the system, to the cost of everybody else. That mostly seems to be devtome writers - if it was something else I would direct my frustrations elsewhere. You're correct in your implications that I could instead just direct all my grumbling at Unthinkingbit but I guess I hoped all those involved would have an interest in finding a better way forward - and I suspect or at least assumed he may think similarly - if he doesn't then I guess he knows my view by now. I have made a point of not getting personal at all with anybody with regards to writings/particular efforts, although I’ve spent a lot of time on devtome so of course I have views, but that is not the point to me - there's nothing fundamentally wrong with devtome only in how it impacts upon the wider Devcoin project.

You refer to mutuality as if it’s something you’ve considered and concluded upon as balanced - I just don’t see where such benefits exist. What ‘value’ do I add to Devcoin in posting writings on devtome? There’s value is somebody reads it as original, enjoys it, shares it, buys or spreads the word about Devcoin equivalent to that earned from it. Otherwise it’s a one-way trade or a skewed trade.

So what also annoys me is when those benefiting from a skewed incentive structure then pronounce the mutual benefit to the concept of the status-quo, a continuation. For every share that say I earn, that diminishes somebody else’s reward. That’s just the way it works - and that's fine but in my opinion that needs to be accounted for by being able to justify greater relative value. I can't see how/where that's even been considered.

The issue I think you miss is that it’s not really the ‘client’ paying you - it’s me, him, her and everybody else that has, could have or will have Devcoins. You are one of the decsion-makers because you have the ability to offer opinion, act and transact to the benefit or detriment of devcoin. Electing to hide behind the defence of a particular professional artist-client relationship while in full knowledge of the costs to a viable continuity of such a relationship is I think slightly disingenuous, and from what I’ve read and heard of your opinion not in line with your general outlook.

However, regardless of my view it is only my view and not necessarily that of others. Like you I also have to make a decision as to whether or not it's still beneficial to me to continue, so thanks for sticking your head above the parapet and building on the discussion.

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October 11, 2013, 12:44:13 AM
 #1602

Devtome now has ratings!
...

Please, If You don't mind, could You add observations/advices to the rating system.
(not only reason for down-voting)
I mean, to guide a mediocre writer towards the envisioned goals, and not only to put good or bad marks...

Sorry if already planned, no way to know it, peeked at given page
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October 11, 2013, 12:45:36 AM
 #1603

Devtome now has ratings! If you're a devcoin admin, or are a developer on the bitcoin share list or the devcoin share list, please sign up to rate writers by adding yourself to the rater list:
http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=devtome_rater#raters

Raters will get to vote in this round, round 28. It will take several days for raters to sign up, get their forms and rate, which will go over the cutoff day for this round, but these ratings will still be in the round 28 group. Once I have the votes, I'll update the devtome script for rounds 29 and after to take the ratings into account, with equal weighting to popularity.

Raters get three shares for voting and up to two extra shares for comments, for a maximum of five shares. Comments get 0.4 shares each, rounded down, to a maximum of 2 shares. Assuming a typical share value of 15$, and an average of four shares, that works out to 60 $/page. A rating page has up to twelve writers to rate, most of the time it will be twelve. Alyssa reported that filling out the form with a few comments took 45 minutes. The typical hourly rate is 60 $/page / 45 minutes/page * 60 minutes/hour = 80 $/hour.

The rate is very high to give the raters extra reason to reject bribes.

Because the rate is so high, rating is a perk. This perk is offered only to the people who help the community a lot, devcoin admins and open source developers.

More info is on the rater page:
http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=devtome_rater


does a rater just pick one article at random per user? what is the difference in rating criteria for, say, a long and well-researched paper, vs. a short blog? both may be very well-written, but i'm not sure that they would be rated the same. any thoughts on that?
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October 11, 2013, 01:09:51 AM
 #1604

Devtome now has ratings!
...

Please, If You don't mind, could You add observations/advices to the rating system.
(not only reason for down-voting)
I mean, to guide a mediocre writer towards the envisioned goals, and not only to put good or bad marks...

Sorry if already planned, no way to know it, peeked at given page

Raters are encouraged to put comments, and they get paid for them:
http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=devtome_rater#earnings

does a rater just pick one article at random per user?

The rater.py script picks one article at random for the rater. The rater is rating the writer, the article link is there so they can quickly go to an article. It's up to the rater how they rate the writer.

Quote
what is the difference in rating criteria for, say, a long and well-researched paper, vs. a short blog? both may be very well-written, but i'm not sure that they would be rated the same. any thoughts on that?

It's only for the quality of the work, if they're both well written they should be rated the same. The rating is used for the earnings multiplier, and that times the word count gives the number of shares.

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October 11, 2013, 01:15:52 AM
 #1605

Devtome now has ratings! If you're a devcoin admin, or are a developer on the bitcoin share list or the devcoin share list, please sign up to rate writers by adding yourself to the rater list.
...

The latest articles page has been getting a bit cluttered, would it be possible for you to dictate more admins to help facilitate the process of categorization?  I've done a few articles but it's a bit overwhelming

  BITMIXER.IO   High Volume Bitcoin MIXER  
BTC: 1JH2jybjWruvDD23wSe5PCY9Epmr45u6nQ - DVC: 1SMEAGqpm9JSpJ6JZaM5dEBptPTNahpFa - Earn Devcoins by Writing | Devcoin Official Site  | SAT
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October 11, 2013, 01:17:14 AM
 #1606

Devtome now has ratings!
...

Please, If You don't mind, could You add observations/advices to the rating system.
(not only reason for down-voting)
I mean, to guide a mediocre writer towards the envisioned goals, and not only to put good or bad marks...

Sorry if already planned, no way to know it, peeked at given page

Raters are encouraged to put comments, and they get paid for them:
http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=devtome_rater#earnings

does a rater just pick one article at random per user?

The rater.py script picks one article at random for the rater. The rater is rating the writer, the article link is there so they can quickly go to an article. It's up to the rater how they rate the writer.

Quote
what is the difference in rating criteria for, say, a long and well-researched paper, vs. a short blog? both may be very well-written, but i'm not sure that they would be rated the same. any thoughts on that?

It's only for the quality of the work, if they're both well written they should be rated the same. The rating is used for the earnings multiplier, and that times the word count gives the number of shares.

Sorry for the double post but it's hard to navigate on mobile.

There are two earnings multipliers then?  And is there a place we can view our current multiplier?

  BITMIXER.IO   High Volume Bitcoin MIXER  
BTC: 1JH2jybjWruvDD23wSe5PCY9Epmr45u6nQ - DVC: 1SMEAGqpm9JSpJ6JZaM5dEBptPTNahpFa - Earn Devcoins by Writing | Devcoin Official Site  | SAT
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October 11, 2013, 01:54:51 AM
 #1607

One more question (also related to rating):
Are edits allowed?
 - before knowing of rating: if massive growth (1000 to 3000 words i.e. 200%) could trigger recalculate?
(it might be also SEO beneficial)
 - knowing of rating: to improve it - for benefit of both writer and reader.
(not necessarily paid for improvement)

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October 11, 2013, 02:10:46 AM
 #1608

Devtome now has ratings!
...

Please, If You don't mind, could You add observations/advices to the rating system.
(not only reason for down-voting)
I mean, to guide a mediocre writer towards the envisioned goals, and not only to put good or bad marks...

Sorry if already planned, no way to know it, peeked at given page

Raters are encouraged to put comments, and they get paid for them:
http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=devtome_rater#earnings

does a rater just pick one article at random per user?

The rater.py script picks one article at random for the rater. The rater is rating the writer, the article link is there so they can quickly go to an article. It's up to the rater how they rate the writer.

Quote
what is the difference in rating criteria for, say, a long and well-researched paper, vs. a short blog? both may be very well-written, but i'm not sure that they would be rated the same. any thoughts on that?

It's only for the quality of the work, if they're both well written they should be rated the same. The rating is used for the earnings multiplier, and that times the word count gives the number of shares.


Is this a one-time thing? Like, once you have a rating, it's permanent? If so, I hope I get a nice rater.  Lips sealed  I research and proofread all my work... still a bit scary though!  Smiley
ranlo
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October 11, 2013, 02:13:32 AM
 #1609

Devtome now has ratings!
...

Please, If You don't mind, could You add observations/advices to the rating system.
(not only reason for down-voting)
I mean, to guide a mediocre writer towards the envisioned goals, and not only to put good or bad marks...

Sorry if already planned, no way to know it, peeked at given page

Raters are encouraged to put comments, and they get paid for them:
http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=devtome_rater#earnings

does a rater just pick one article at random per user?

The rater.py script picks one article at random for the rater. The rater is rating the writer, the article link is there so they can quickly go to an article. It's up to the rater how they rate the writer.

Quote
what is the difference in rating criteria for, say, a long and well-researched paper, vs. a short blog? both may be very well-written, but i'm not sure that they would be rated the same. any thoughts on that?

It's only for the quality of the work, if they're both well written they should be rated the same. The rating is used for the earnings multiplier, and that times the word count gives the number of shares.


Is this a one-time thing? Like, once you have a rating, it's permanent? If so, I hope I get a nice rater.  Lips sealed  I research and proofread all my work... still a bit scary though!  Smiley


For what it's worth, I was in charge of vetting you out for this round, and you got a huge +1 from me. I really don't think you'll have any issues.


 
 

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 




















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October 11, 2013, 03:49:10 AM
 #1610

Devtome now has ratings! If you're a devcoin admin, or are a developer on the bitcoin share list or the devcoin share list, please sign up to rate writers by adding yourself to the rater list:
http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=devtome_rater#raters

Raters will get to vote in this round, round 28. It will take several days for raters to sign up, get their forms and rate, which will go over the cutoff day for this round, but these ratings will still be in the round 28 group. Once I have the votes, I'll update the devtome script for rounds 29 and after to take the ratings into account, with equal weighting to popularity.

Raters get three shares for voting and up to two extra shares for comments, for a maximum of five shares. Comments get 0.4 shares each, rounded down, to a maximum of 2 shares. Assuming a typical share value of 15$, and an average of four shares, that works out to 60 $/page. A rating page has up to twelve writers to rate, most of the time it will be twelve. Alyssa reported that filling out the form with a few comments took 45 minutes. The typical hourly rate is 60 $/page / 45 minutes/page * 60 minutes/hour = 80 $/hour.

The rate is very high to give the raters extra reason to reject bribes.

Because the rate is so high, rating is a perk. This perk is offered only to the people who help the community a lot, devcoin admins and open source developers.

More info is on the rater page:
http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=devtome_rater


Will rating effect writers earnings negatively in any way?

Also, if an article is rated, then you add to it and re-edit. Does it get rated again. Because I am writing a history book, and as I am not reading history in a linear order, I will not only be adding things, but adding to things, and maybe completely redoing entire sections.

And most of my focus will go to that one page for the next few rounds.

If everyone is thinking outside the box, there is a new box.
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October 11, 2013, 04:20:36 AM
 #1611

I've been reading some concerns about the rating system, and I can see where they're coming from. I think an ideal solution would be to not rate the articles themselves, but the writers. Someone who is consistently putting out good content is valuable. Someone who put out one good piece and the rest is crap is not (sorry if this is taken offensive).

Some people revise their work. I've revised some of mine as well. I think the amount of work it would take to keep on top of each piece of writing and keep accurate ratings is greater than it is worth. Instead, we should be paying attention to each writer and what they output.


 
 

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 




















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October 11, 2013, 07:09:01 AM
 #1612

Devtome now has ratings! If you're a devcoin admin, or are a developer on the bitcoin share list or the devcoin share list, please sign up to rate writers by adding yourself to the rater list:
http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=devtome_rater#raters

Raters will get to vote in this round, round 28. It will take several days for raters to sign up, get their forms and rate, which will go over the cutoff day for this round, but these ratings will still be in the round 28 group. Once I have the votes, I'll update the devtome script for rounds 29 and after to take the ratings into account, with equal weighting to popularity.

Raters get three shares for voting and up to two extra shares for comments, for a maximum of five shares. Comments get 0.4 shares each, rounded down, to a maximum of 2 shares. Assuming a typical share value of 15$, and an average of four shares, that works out to 60 $/page. A rating page has up to twelve writers to rate, most of the time it will be twelve. Alyssa reported that filling out the form with a few comments took 45 minutes. The typical hourly rate is 60 $/page / 45 minutes/page * 60 minutes/hour = 80 $/hour.

The rate is very high to give the raters extra reason to reject bribes.

Because the rate is so high, rating is a perk. This perk is offered only to the people who help the community a lot, devcoin admins and open source developers.

More info is on the rater page:
http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=devtome_rater


This is great to hear and I hope it leads to a higher quality of writing on Devtome.  It does also make me slightly nervous about the ratings.  I published two books onto Devtome, which I put a huge amount of work into and haven't published anywhere else.  They are also much longer than the usual articles so I don't know if the raters are expected to read them all the way though or if they should just read a few thousand words as a sample?

I promoted one of my Devtome books (Walking Upright:  The Appalachian Trail in Virginia) on a hiking forum and it went down really well, people have been enjoying reading it.  I'd feel really bad if it got low ratings... Here's the forum where I posted about it:

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?98464-Published-my-AT-book-quot-Walking-Upright-quot-for-free-read-it-here

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October 11, 2013, 07:38:51 AM
 #1613

Is this a one-time thing? Like, once you have a rating, it's permanent? If so, I hope I get a nice rater.  Lips sealed  I research and proofread all my work... still a bit scary though!  Smiley


For what it's worth, I was in charge of vetting you out for this round, and you got a huge +1 from me. I really don't think you'll have any issues.

Thanks!  Cheesy

I apparently glossed over this section on the link posted by Unthinkingbit:

Quote
Each writer gets up to eight raters. The writer's rating is the median of all their ratings.
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October 11, 2013, 07:46:51 AM
 #1614

http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=where_to_spend_your_devcoins

All the current devcoin businesses.  If I forgot something, please tell me!

iGotSpots.com/dvc still gets you to the pages you can spend them on. Just our main page changed

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weisoq
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October 11, 2013, 09:02:37 AM
 #1615

...Although I personally do tend towards altruism, I believe that an economic system that depends on altruism will not in the long run be sustainable.  For it to work in the long run, it has to work just fine when the majority of the participants are for the most part looking out for their own interests.  I'm not talking about survival of the fittest or dog eat dog, just people going along trying to better their lives and doing what's best for them while still being generally ethical.  The reality is that this is how most people operate, so you want your currency to work for them and still accomplish the overall goals.
I do not personally trend towards altruism. I trend towards maximising returns or potential for returns. Devcoin is not altruistic because it requires purchases to support any non-zero price of dvc offered. I doubt anybody's buying dvc out of altruism.

So this again is where we part company in general understanding. I think it is you and others that are selling your own returns and potential short through a desperation to accrue any immediate gain, to the cost of greater benefit in the medium/long term. Up to you obviously, but such choices do impact the rest of us in a similar manner so it will continue to annoy me - particularly when any stated rationale (mutuality/ignorance) does not remain in line with effects and actions.

You're right that it's no crime etc...it just makes no sense to do so and then defend it from any perceived logical standpoint of mutual benefit. It would make more sense to just take the money and run, or take the money and never say another thing. A lot of people have done that and good luck to them - what they haven't done is to convince themselves of any mutual merit of this and then try to defend it.

If the current system continues there will eventually be no buyers. But if people keep buying devcoins to pay out to a small self-selecting group of recipients then I will have been wrong.

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October 11, 2013, 10:14:47 AM
 #1616

... I think it is you and others that are selling your own returns and potential short through a desperation to accrue any immediate gain, to the cost of greater benefit in the medium/long term. ...
I am preparing for selling services and digital goods (without procurement cost) for DVCs. This way I think I'll be able to keep my coins and not being forced to sell them, short or not (as if selling goods, like silver).
My long term vision is also blurred: will this bring real benefits to the coin per se? And if everybody else sit on their earned coins (by writing code or stories or ...), will the price/value of the coin go up?

I have no worry: there will always be someone to sell, and keep the market moving. But why should someone buy DVCs? For me this is the main question!

Example:
If I sell my services only for devcoins, I might create the need to buy them, at least by my clients. But in the same time, I'll drive away a lot more potential clients too lazy to change (if cryptocurrency aware) or impossible to convert (those who wouldn't use crypto), and hurting my revenues in the process (and here is the place for altruism: this is a price I'm almost ready to pay)

I read and read and I don't find a solution. And when I return to the roots: the Austrian Economists (Mises), the actual present day libertarians are trashing us (as not being gold!...).

The main questions are still unanswered:
 - How to create the real need for the coin?
 - While paying more and more people in DVCs, how to determine them not to exchange their money too soon (i.e. short)?
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October 11, 2013, 12:29:21 PM
 #1617

If an article is rated, then you add to it and re-edit. Does it get rated again. Because I am writing a history book, and as I am not reading history in a linear order, so I will not only be adding things, but adding to things, and maybe completely redoing entire sections.

And most of my focus will go to that one page for the next few rounds.

If everyone is thinking outside the box, there is a new box.
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October 11, 2013, 03:32:10 PM
 #1618

I guess I'm assuming mutually beneficial because the client keeps paying.  Why would the client keep paying if the client wasn't perceiving some benefit?  Granted, this may not apply in quite the same way to this situation, but in general, when I'm paid to write for someone, that person is hiring me because they see a benefit to me writing for them which they are willing to pay for.  It does seem like in this case, part of my job is to also look after the client beyond what would normally be expected in a client/writer relationship, like I need to be asking the client:  "should you even be paying me?" and "Should I even be working for you in this way?"  Now, the system was set up the way it is long before I came on board, so I can't be accused of in some way pulling the wool over the client's eyes.  However, maybe I should be "seeing the light" that in reality the client is actually harmed by this relationship, and out of a sense of moral duty, refrain from further "exploiting" the client by no longer publishing any articles.  This is the part where I'm feeling a lot of verbal pressure here in this thread to be altruistic when I'd rather be motivated by self-interest. 

I do recognize that this brings up the argument of well, if it isn't me "gaming the system," it will be someone else, so why shouldn't it be me, and that if there is actual exploitation going on, that isn't a valid argument in defense of my actions.  But with the more recent posts from UnthinkingBit, I'm thinking that might become irrelevant, as these posts represent the client changing the terms to be even more beneficial to the client--rating writers and so forth.  What I truly appreciate about UnthinkingBit is that he doesn't change things in a hurry and carefully considers each new step before implementing it.  This also shows that the client is still in control of the relationship; even if I absolutely love the current terms because I'm getting paid so much, when the client makes a change, there isn't going to be a thing I can do about it, other than to reevaluate my own participation.  This is the part that convinces me that however much I may be benefiting today, I am not exploiting the client, because the client is empowered to change the relationship at any time, and is feeling quite free to do so.  He's just more patient than most Smiley

And yes, I recognize that people who buy DVC on the exchange are also motivated by self-interest.  This means that in many people's eyes, including traders, DVCs hold value.  This is a healthy sign.  The trend I see of more people opening businesses which take them in payment is another good sign which will eventually mean it's going to be more expensive for people to buy Devcoins as fewer people will be dumping them.  I hope they too are motivated by self-interest.

In the end, I would like to see the client/writer relationship set up to where the benefit is truly mutual (if it's not this way now, then any change towards making it so is good), because to be perfectly honest, I would like to be free to participate where I only need to look out for my own interests and not fret about whether or not the client is truly benefited by me simply doing my job as instructed.  In other words, I'm not thrilled with being put in a position where I might be the exploiter, but I can't be responsible for setting someone else's boundaries, only respecting them once they are set by that person.

As for what I do with my earnings, that is dictated by self-interest, but not desperation.  I do sell a lot of them for Bitcoins, mainly because I have discovered some good places to put Bitcoins where they can earn return, and so far I have not found those same opportunities for Devcoins.  The exception is that on mcxNOW my Devcoins do earn interest, and I will take full advantage of this until mcxNOW pulls the plug.  I do stockpile a lot of Devcoins, though.  I like to try to take advantage of pumps by having existing high sell orders in place just in case.  I also have an opportunity to pay for a service I'm needing in Devcoins so I'm saving up for that as well.  In other words, using my earnings to better my life--same as every other person who's ever gotten paid to do anything.

My initial thought when I found this opportunity was to immediately trade out my earnings and run, because I did think surely there is no way this can last.  And maybe it can't.  But I do now have a vested self-interest in making it last as long as possible, in the sense that I now find it in my best interests to help out with the project in other ways (within my personal limitations) and also do something with all my earnings that I believe will also help the project.  Again, the same basic thing I see other Devtome writers doing.  This process is a very natural, organic process, part of the development of a healthy economy.  My concern in all the criticism leveled at writers, though, is that this process gets stifled to the detriment of everyone.

...Although I personally do tend towards altruism, I believe that an economic system that depends on altruism will not in the long run be sustainable.  For it to work in the long run, it has to work just fine when the majority of the participants are for the most part looking out for their own interests.  I'm not talking about survival of the fittest or dog eat dog, just people going along trying to better their lives and doing what's best for them while still being generally ethical.  The reality is that this is how most people operate, so you want your currency to work for them and still accomplish the overall goals.
I do not personally trend towards altruism. I trend towards maximising returns or potential for returns. Devcoin is not altruistic because it requires purchases to support any non-zero price of dvc offered. I doubt anybody's buying dvc out of altruism.

So this again is where we part company in general understanding. I think it is you and others that are selling your own returns and potential short through a desperation to accrue any immediate gain, to the cost of greater benefit in the medium/long term. Up to you obviously, but such choices do impact the rest of us in a similar manner so it will continue to annoy me - particularly when any stated rationale (mutuality/ignorance) does not remain in line with effects and actions.

You're right that it's no crime etc...it just makes no sense to do so and then defend it from any perceived logical standpoint of mutual benefit. It would make more sense to just take the money and run, or take the money and never say another thing. A lot of people have done that and good luck to them - what they haven't done is to convince themselves of any mutual merit of this and then try to defend it.

If the current system continues there will eventually be no buyers. But if people keep buying devcoins to pay out to a small self-selecting group of recipients then I will have been wrong.

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October 11, 2013, 06:56:21 PM
 #1619

On the daily chart it looks like the low we hit on dvc around 20-25 satoishi's might be the medium to long term low. I did some of my own technical analysis the I've learned from 10 years of forex that is reliable in determining possible physiological turning points or swing low. I was waiting for the final capitulation low for a few months but wasn't around to trade it so I got in a little later now. I calculated it based on the last pump that made price go above 100 but came back down a few weeks earlier. Also doing some GANN analysis told me we were due for an extended leg up soon. The price pretty much hit right on the button of my target so the closer we are the better risk rewards I have for more devcoins. At this point any price here is a good buy long term and fundamentally it stacks up with all the new stores we have coupled with the fact that the writers haven't been dumping the last few weeks... I could see a pump coming from a whale hopefully in the near future. If we do reach 200-300 at this point it would be interesting to see if we can finally break out to see a sustained uptrend coupled with bounties which have had been around waiting for a higher market cap to be in place before someone took them on.

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October 11, 2013, 07:32:28 PM
 #1620

You can spend devcoin at even more stores. You can find the full list of devcoin accepting stores at Show me the devcoin - spend devcoin

Do these stores actually accept devcoin, or do they only use coinpayments?

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