[DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated

[sidhujag]

I think it will all be fine. Did ya'll see that list of businesses accepting Devcoin? It's HUGE (Like 9+ places). As long as we promote that at the end of every round, Devcoin will go up in price and the MXCNow guy will feel stupid.

its a pretty big exchange, I've chatted with him. He says that the devcoin community shouldn't act like they got a handout and hit the lottery bit being on mcxnow which has some validity because he says there are serious issues with the code.

Also his email response was:

"Sorry the node for devcoin is too unreliable (crashes fairly often, has multithreading bugs). It doesn't meet my criteria for a stable enough chain."

This is the first ive heard about this, is this true? Tjats a major claim against the project. I thought we were doing something about fixing the code with I0Coin update?

If we can fix the code and how him we are working on fixing it I think he may keep it, I think we should have some kind of bounty for fixing it or get someone who knows what they are doing. I told him I would happily look at it if he gave me some guidance as I am a programmer but never looked at the source for any crypto.

Jag

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[weisoq]

its a pretty big exchange, I've chatted with him. He says that the devcoin community shouldn't act like they got a handout and hit the lottery bit being on mcxnow which has some validity because he says there are serious issues with the code.

Also his email response was:

"Sorry the node for devcoin is too unreliable (crashes fairly often, has multithreading bugs). It doesn't meet my criteria for a stable enough chain."

This is the first ive heard about this, is this true? I thought we were doing something about fixing the code with I0Coin update?

If we can fix the code and how him we are working on fixing it I think he may keep it, I think we should have some kind of bounty for fixing it or get someone who knows what they are doing. I told him I would happily look at it if he gave me some guidance as I am a programmer but never looked at the source for any crypto.

Jag

yeah maybe if we re-visted rather than ignored the devtome over-payment issues there's be a better incentive to get other things done...

[FinShaggy]

I honestly think lowering the word count is the best way to do it.

You can still write as much as you want, it will just carry into the next round. And with everyone getting less shares, the shares are worth more and people who don't write earn more.

But also,
If we tried to get everyone that is mad about writer over earnings, to just start writing on Devtome. Then the only issue they would have is that too many people are writing and shares are getting too small. It's still an issue, but it's a better one.

[sidhujag]

its a pretty big exchange, I've chatted with him. He says that the devcoin community shouldn't act like they got a handout and hit the lottery bit being on mcxnow which has some validity because he says there are serious issues with the code.

Also his email response was:

"Sorry the node for devcoin is too unreliable (crashes fairly often, has multithreading bugs). It doesn't meet my criteria for a stable enough chain."

This is the first ive heard about this, is this true? I thought we were doing something about fixing the code with I0Coin update?

If we can fix the code and how him we are working on fixing it I think he may keep it, I think we should have some kind of bounty for fixing it or get someone who knows what they are doing. I told him I would happily look at it if he gave me some guidance as I am a programmer but never looked at the source for any crypto.

Jag

yeah maybe if we re-visted rather than ignored the devtome over-payment issues there's be a better incentive to get other things done...

Agreed I've been pushing for that as you know but seem to be ignored or overheard by loud voices from writers with other interests. I think this should take the highest priority right now to ensure the future of the project. Bounty or no bounty I can work on the code if someone points me to what needs to be fixed, or if we can collaborate with a codebase thats already updated.

[weisoq]

Agreed I've been pushing for that as you know but seem to be ignored or overheard by loud voices from writers with other interests. I think this should take the highest priority right now to ensure the future of the project. Bounty or no bounty I can work on the code if someone points me to what needs to be fixed, or if we can collaborate with a codebase thats already updated.

Yep agree it pisses me off as so incredibly counter productive, but wasn't having a go at you.

[weisoq]

I honestly think lowering the word count is the best way to do it.

You can still write as much as you want, it will just carry into the next round. And with everyone getting less shares, the shares are worth more and people who don't write earn more.

But also,
If we tried to get everyone that is mad about writer over earnings, to just start writing on Devtome. Then the only issue they would have is that too many people are writing and shares are getting too small. It's still an issue, but it's a better one.

The issue is only the max payout per person per round (or in my opinion, max payout for devtome as a whole as a % of total per round to then be divided up however everybody wants to). There doesn't have to be any limit to word count/submission volume in itself at all, so as viewer popularity/advertising income grows that should catalyse payment for those interested rather than via specific devtome payment.

[wiser]

Those of you who code and who would love to fix whatever the coding issue is with Devcoin, but who balk because we fat cat and mercenary writers just hog all the shares, I'd really love to read an article which explains in plain English what the issue was and how it was fixed.  Just sayin'.  Did someone make a rule that coders are not allowed to also write?

And for the record, I would have no problem with it if there were modifications made which limited writer shares further or limited the piece of the pie the Devtome took--especially if those decisions were made in the best interests of the Devcoin project overall.  As I have said before, the client is always right.  Please understand that it's not us who are keeping this from happening.  It would be great if all you coder types would quit implying that it is somehow our fault that you're not getting as many shares as you believe you deserve.  I am just writing according to the terms that were laid out for me.  If they change in the future, as long as it's not in the middle of a round, I will not protest or complain, and I don't think anyone else is either.  Your beef is not with us.

I hope the issue can be fixed so that DVC can remain on mcxNOW, but in the mean time, I'd appreciate it if we writers weren't blamed for the problem, especially considering we did not write the code, nor would most of us be able to fix it even if we wanted to (I'm not a coder).

Believe me, anything I can do to support coders who can fix this issue, I would be willing to do because I really LOVE having DVC on mcxNOW.  But again, I repeat, it's not my decision.

[weisoq]

I'd just like this concept to work. Honestly I couldn't care less if 'working' meant 99% of shares going to devtome, because that would imply a large enough community of people keen to buy devcoins to support such writings alone. Another concept could then capture interests in other things. However that's not the case.

That writing an article is suggested as a means of demonstrating or justifying a position in itself underscores the ridiculous nature of the payment structure, and perhaps of the mindset of those availing themselves of it (and yes to be clear - to date such persons includes me).

In terms of supporting the fixing of issues...I'd turn the question around. What (in the opinion of others) is the most important issue today with regards to devcoin? What do you think resolution of that issue is 'worth'? Should then any other project accrue a greater payout than that one? The remaing ideas/projects etc could quite easily be tiered from that first principle and dynamically adjusted with new stuff.

It's not about fault/otherwise. It's as simple as changing things that aren't working in the means intended. Unless this is how it was meant to be - in which case it's just my misunderstanding from the onset.

In terms of blame, that's more difficult without making it personal. But broadly I think capping the devtome payout would address the issue of a payment structure that favours certain types of submission, sometimes not of the greatest quality or value - neither to the reader or the writer.

[MAbtc]

I think the new exchange mcxnow.com offers a bright future for Devcoin... it recently has and an injection of liquidity that is looking for a place to stay other than bitcoin. We know that when whales come in they would rather actively invest by trading. There are a handful of coins on there which are traded and dvc has benefited from the increased volume by hitting up to 100 satoishi recently! The volume was over 100 million dvc a few days in a row. We havent seen that on vircurex forever! Anyways I've been hearing from the chat mods and other users on the site that they are looking to replace devcoin with namecoin and we should all let our voices be heard if that is true. I really think that the exchange offers the light for dvc and we should try to fight to keep it alive. With it growing so fast I wouldn't be surprised if its labelled as 'the alt coin marketplace' and with big money coming in from stock exchanges (equity) I would see a big future for any alts on there.

His email is mcxnow.exchange@gmail.com I believe that is realsolid's email.

Jag

RS (the owner of mcxnow) has stated that DVC is already in the process of being removed. He just wants to "transition it out" and is dropping it soon. I think we're a bit too far for saving it at this point, although if DVC gains momentum in the future it's a possibility.

That really STINKS!

EDIT:  Right now there are 11,092 accounts, which means that the number of users who are on the site to buy or sell Devcoins could be a significant percentage of that.  There probably is no better time to reach out to RS and tell him why you're there.  Even those who don't have an account can reach out.  If what Jag says is correct about mcxNOW being a significant reason for the recent increase in value in DVC, then that benefit has been felt by non account holders too.

This is really too bad. I hadn't gotten around to joining the platform, and now it looks like I may not, after all. I have sent an email requesting that this decision be reconsidered. 

[wiser]

I'd just like this concept to work. Honestly I couldn't care less if 'working' meant 99% of shares going to devtome, because that would imply a large enough community of people keen to buy devcoins to support such writings alone. Another concept could then capture interests in other things. However that's not the case.

That writing an article is suggested as a means of demonstrating or justifying a position in itself underscores the ridiculous nature of the payment structure, and perhaps of the mindset of those availing themselves of it (and yes to be clear - to date such persons includes me).

In terms of supporting the fixing of issues...I'd turn the question around. What (in the opinion of others) is the most important issue today with regards to devcoin? What do you think resolution of that issue is 'worth'? Should then any other project accrue a greater payout than that one? The remaing ideas/projects etc could quite easily be tiered from that first principle and dynamically adjusted with new stuff.

It's not about fault/otherwise. It's as simple as changing things that aren't working in the means intended. Unless this is how it was meant to be - in which case it's just my misunderstanding from the onset.

In terms of blame, that's more difficult without making it personal. But broadly I think capping the devtome payout would address the issue of a payment structure that favours certain types of submission, sometimes not of the greatest quality or value - neither to the reader or the writer.

You're going to have to convince the decision makers on that one.  That's all I'm trying to say.  You can write an article about why things should change, how they should change, and why it's ridiculous to keep things the way they are.  Then you should send a link to your article to the decision makers of the Devcoin project.  But you might as well get paid for it in the mean time.

Personally, the biggest issue I see with Devcoins is that there lacks an economy for them.  However, I see that changing as more people are opening up businesses which accept Devcoins in payment.  Some of those businesses have been opened up by Devtome writers.  I'm working on a venture myself.  I guess I don't see the problem.  It seems to be working the way it should be working using the current payout system.  It's just going to take some time.

Having Devcoin kicked off mcxNOW would be annoying, to be sure.  But it's not going to kill Devcoin (I suspect it will have more negative ramifications for mcxNOW than it will for Devcoin).  If there is a genuine problem with the DVC code, then it's a good idea to fix it.  But honestly, RealSolid is the first person I've encountered who ever found that to be an issue.  My wallet and the Devcoins inside it work just fine, and I have a much easier time sending DVCs around than I've lately had sending Bitcoins around from certain addresses.

[MAbtc]

I think it will all be fine. Did ya'll see that list of businesses accepting Devcoin? It's HUGE (Like 9+ places). As long as we promote that at the end of every round, Devcoin will go up in price and the MXCNow guy will feel stupid.

How do you think we should go about promoting this? And why at the end of every round, as opposed to say, in general?

"Sorry the node for devcoin is too unreliable (crashes fairly often, has multithreading bugs). It doesn't meet my criteria for a stable enough chain."

This is the first ive heard about this, is this true? Tjats a major claim against the project. I thought we were doing something about fixing the code with I0Coin update?

Any more information about this? Pretty new to devcoin -- what are the issues and how is it being worked on? (Or is it being worked on?)

[wiser]

This is really too bad. I hadn't gotten around to joining the platform, and now it looks like I may not, after all. I have sent an email requesting that this decision be reconsidered. 

Please do write RealSolid mcxnow.exchange@gmail.com and tell him all about how you were about to join but might not now because you heard the sad news that Devcoin is going to be delisted.

I think it's good for RS to get a lot of feedback that DVC will be missed because he may simply not be aware of how important it is to a lot of his customers (or potential customers).

[sidhujag]

I think it will all be fine. Did ya'll see that list of businesses accepting Devcoin? It's HUGE (Like 9+ places). As long as we promote that at the end of every round, Devcoin will go up in price and the MXCNow guy will feel stupid.

How do you think we should go about promoting this? And why at the end of every round, as opposed to say, in general?

"Sorry the node for devcoin is too unreliable (crashes fairly often, has multithreading bugs). It doesn't meet my criteria for a stable enough chain."

This is the first ive heard about this, is this true? Tjats a major claim against the project. I thought we were doing something about fixing the code with I0Coin update?

Any more information about this? Pretty new to devcoin -- what are the issues and how is it being worked on? (Or is it being worked on?)

Well I did ask him if we work on the code can we come up with a plan to keep it on the exchange? Also stressed the fact that it is a growing coin with more and more vendors and keeping it on the exchange would help it grow a lot easier and faster.

No response yet.

[mrca]

...coders are not allowed to also write?

... I think capping the devtome payout would address the issue of a payment structure that favors certain types of submission, sometimes not of the greatest quality or value - neither to the reader or the writer.

I'm a coder and I also write. I find those activities similar (sic!).
(those for my day-job)
I also wash my kids' asses when needed...
(those for my family)
If I write for DevTome, I want my [crypto]money, if promised, but also I would do it for nothing...
Remember the spirit of the Moon Race?

...
It's not about fault/otherwise. It's as simple as changing things that aren't working in the means intended.

Totally right!
I'm sure we (or most of us) are mature enough to focus on solving problems, as opposite to finding the escape goat (the "corporate" way).

I could also help, but my reputation is null, and usually newcomers have a trust issue to overcome, unbalanced by my skills. In other words, I'm sort of "jack of all trades", from electronics to (some) higher maths, and they (my kind) are considered less specialized. I also discover frequently that lots of "specialists" - at least in my close vicinity - know less, and are able to do lesser...

In less words: HOW CAN I HELP?

[wiser]

Well I did ask him if we work on the code can we come up with a plan to keep it on the exchange? Also stressed the fact that it is a growing coin with more and more vendors and keeping it on the exchange would help it grow a lot easier and faster.

No response yet.

I got a response to my email after I popped in on the chat window and said something along the lines of I hope Devcoin will remain on the exchange because that's the main alt coin I trade, etc.  Not sure if the two events were connected or not.  Just FYI...

[weisoq]

You're going to have to convince the decision makers on that one.  That's all I'm trying to say.  You can write an article about why things should change, how they should change, and why it's ridiculous to keep things the way they are.  Then you should send a link to your article to the decision makers of the Devcoin project.  But you might as well get paid for it in the mean time.

Personally, the biggest issue I see with Devcoins is that there lacks an economy for them.  However, I see that changing as more people are opening up businesses which accept Devcoins in payment.  Some of those businesses have been opened up by Devtome writers.  I'm working on a venture myself.  I guess I don't see the problem.  It seems to be working the way it should be working using the current payout system.  It's just going to take some time.

Having Devcoin kicked off mcxNOW would be annoying, to be sure.  But it's not going to kill Devcoin (I suspect it will have more negative ramifications for mcxNOW than it will for Devcoin).  If there is a genuine problem with the DVC code, then it's a good idea to fix it.  But honestly, RealSolid is the first person I've encountered who ever found that to be an issue.  My wallet and the Devcoins inside it work just fine, and I have a much easier time sending DVCs around than I've lately had sending Bitcoins around from certain addresses.

Yeah perhaps I could write it in my own blog, then copy that again over to devtome for some extra while hoping mcxnow dvc flow remains adequately liquid before code problems put paid to an exchange option? Yes I know that's an arbitrary cheap shot but it serves to make a point. No I don't blame you for such a dynamic existing, and no I'm not going to write an article about it.

Does not offering any opinion on the relative value of projects imply you think devtome is the most important, or that it just works too well for you to suggest otherwise?

We have a fundamental difference of opinion on all this. Devcoin et al are supposed to be progressively more de-centralised payment systems, not a self congratulatory word bucket for verbose special flowers to pay ourselves. Under that assumption, a deferral to any powers-that-be strikes me as a complete kop out, or just evidence of gaming. Which is fine, but then don't fall back on concerns over devcoin - as such an outlook is part of the problem for those who think otherwise of the potential.

-----------
To be totally clear, I'm not anti-devtome or writers or writing, I just cannot understand the benefit of having a payment mechanism that enables one apparently-initial project to cannablise the potential and opportunities of everything else. But I keep making this point to little agreement or consensus and I'm bored of doing so.

mrca: I happen to think devtome submission should be for nothing - perhaps a notional amount for time spent editing etc aside - and any earnings based on views/advertising. i.e. catalysing self-funding/failure due to no interest, rather than subsidised by everything else.

And for those who may think that as someone who's earnt dvc for writing I'm talking out of my arse - if the system was changed to (for example, devtome as 5-10% max of total) I would be quite happy to contribute towards any feeling-hard-done-by-although-it-makes-no-sense-to-continue-like-this compensation pot, although I believe the price itself would resolve those concerns anyway.

[sidhujag]

You're going to have to convince the decision makers on that one.  That's all I'm trying to say.  You can write an article about why things should change, how they should change, and why it's ridiculous to keep things the way they are.  Then you should send a link to your article to the decision makers of the Devcoin project.  But you might as well get paid for it in the mean time.

Personally, the biggest issue I see with Devcoins is that there lacks an economy for them.  However, I see that changing as more people are opening up businesses which accept Devcoins in payment.  Some of those businesses have been opened up by Devtome writers.  I'm working on a venture myself.  I guess I don't see the problem.  It seems to be working the way it should be working using the current payout system.  It's just going to take some time.

Having Devcoin kicked off mcxNOW would be annoying, to be sure.  But it's not going to kill Devcoin (I suspect it will have more negative ramifications for mcxNOW than it will for Devcoin).  If there is a genuine problem with the DVC code, then it's a good idea to fix it.  But honestly, RealSolid is the first person I've encountered who ever found that to be an issue.  My wallet and the Devcoins inside it work just fine, and I have a much easier time sending DVCs around than I've lately had sending Bitcoins around from certain addresses.

Yeah perhaps I could write it in my own blog, then copy that again over to devtome for some extra while hoping mcxnow dvc flow remains adequately liquid before code problems put paid to an exchange option? Yes I know that's an arbitrary cheap shot but it serves to make a point. No I don't blame you for such a dynamic existing, and no I'm not going to write an article about it.

Does not offering any opinion on the relative value of projects imply you think devtome is the most important, or that it just works too well for you to suggest otherwise?

We have a fundamental difference of opinion on all this. Devcoin et al are supposed to be progressively more de-centralised payment systems, not a self congratulatory word bucket for verbose special flowers to pay ourselves. Under that assumption, a deferral to any powers-that-be strikes me as a complete kop out, or just evidence of gaming. Which is fine, but then don't fall back on concerns over devcoin - as such an outlook is part of the problem for those who think otherwise of the potential.

-----------
To be totally clear, I'm not anti-devtome or writers or writing, I just cannot understand the benefit of having a payment mechanism that enables one apparently-initial project to cannablise the potential and opportunities of everything else. But I keep making this point to little agreement or consensus and I'm bored of doing so.

mrca: I happen to think devtome submission should be for nothing - perhaps a notional amount for time spent editing etc aside - and any earnings based on views/advertising. i.e. catalysing self-funding/failure due to no interest, rather than subsidised by everything else.

And for those who may think that as someone who's earnt dvc for writing I'm talking out of my arse - if the system was changed to (for example, devtome as 5-10% max of total) I would be quite happy to contribute towards any feeling-hard-done-by-although-it-makes-no-sense-to-continue-like-this compensation pot, although I believe the price itself would resolve those concerns anyway.

I think we are on the same page, and I know some others are too including MarkM... its not like your not being heard. I think the top priority right now is keeping it on the exchange and then finding out what to do with bounties/writing payments etc.

[sidhujag]

Well I did ask him if we work on the code can we come up with a plan to keep it on the exchange? Also stressed the fact that it is a growing coin with more and more vendors and keeping it on the exchange would help it grow a lot easier and faster.

No response yet.

I got a response to my email after I popped in on the chat window and said something along the lines of I hope Devcoin will remain on the exchange because that's the main alt coin I trade, etc.  Not sure if the two events were connected or not.  Just FYI...

What did the response say?

[smeagol]

Update the codebase! 

[mrca]

Maybe some "helicopter view" could help?

There are a few issues (listed in their importance order):
A - [Forever] term: create a real economy in devcoins, with it's own eco-system
(I'm preparing to sell some services for devcoins - services, so I could keep the coins and not sell them asap...)

B - Short term: How can we stop the fall (mcx...) and, if needed, improve/correct/... code
(my previous post...)

C - Long Term: better writings, more earnings (from those...), and more writers also
(I really think that lowering rewards could weed out ... well ... undesirables at least)

As You could see, there is the same dilemma between urgency and importance...