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Author Topic: DragonMint T1 16TH/S halongmining.com  (Read 54848 times)
-ck
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March 08, 2018, 08:36:59 AM
 #1481

Yes, but why should pools change their protocol because one mining company says so? Why not make chips that hash at their advertised rates, and then ASICBOOT if your pool supports it to get up to higher rates?
Pools are designed to make money from miners. Do you think pools will refuse to implement it and shut out potential new customers?

Will CKPool support it day 1?
It's already deployed on both ckpools Smiley I'm mining with an experimental sample already on ckpool.org

Do you have any real numbers of how it performs with Asicboost on or off on the pool?

Cheers
It's an engineering sample so not final silicon but this one is doing 15.5TH. I don't have it here so cannot comment on power draw. It's 1/4 speed trying to mine on a pool without asicboost if I force it to but basically it will currently refuse to mine on a pool that doesn't support it for now.

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March 08, 2018, 08:56:04 AM
Merited by frodocooper (1)
 #1482

By the way I forgot to mention with my rewritten driver and this hardware's capabilities, it is an excellent match for p2pool; probably the first ASIC in a very long time to be. The reject rate I'm getting at my pool with this miner is <0.1%

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March 08, 2018, 10:46:56 AM
 #1483

Yes, but why should pools change their protocol because one mining company says so? Why not make chips that hash at their advertised rates, and then ASICBOOT if your pool supports it to get up to higher rates?
Pools are designed to make money from miners. Do you think pools will refuse to implement it and shut out potential new customers?

Will CKPool support it day 1?
It's already deployed on both ckpools Smiley I'm mining with an experimental sample already on ckpool.org

Do you have any real numbers of how it performs with Asicboost on or off on the pool?

Cheers
It's an engineering sample so not final silicon but this one is doing 15.5TH. I don't have it here so cannot comment on power draw. It's 1/4 speed trying to mine on a pool without asicboost if I force it to but basically it will currently refuse to mine on a pool that doesn't support it for now.

So here's the rub, and I'll quote my question from another thread.

Thing that I'd like some clarity on, ASICboost was only suppost to improve the efficiency of a miner, not its hashing speed, so it did the same but used less power. Overall of course this would lead to either being able to push the miner faster for the same power usage (if the hardware could handle it) or running more individual miners but using the same power. (e.g. if it gave a 25% reduction in power, you could run 5 miners for the power you used to run 4 miners)

Is this new version of overt ASICboost different? There are hints that the Dragonmint miners will only run at 1/4 speed on non-asicboost pools. That sort of doesn't line up with how we all thought ASICboost

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March 08, 2018, 11:07:20 AM
 #1484

So here's the rub, and I'll quote my question from another thread.

Thing that I'd like some clarity on, ASICboost was only suppost to improve the efficiency of a miner, not its hashing speed, so it did the same but used less power. Overall of course this would lead to either being able to push the miner faster for the same power usage (if the hardware could handle it) or running more individual miners but using the same power. (e.g. if it gave a 25% reduction in power, you could run 5 miners for the power you used to run 4 miners)

Is this new version of overt ASICboost different? There are hints that the Dragonmint miners will only run at 1/4 speed on non-asicboost pools. That sort of doesn't line up with how we all thought ASICboost
It's the same form of asicboost but avoiding the switching topology to enable/disable asicboost makes the chips simpler and smaller.

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March 08, 2018, 01:52:44 PM
Merited by frodocooper (1)
 #1485

Thing that I'd like some clarity on, ASICboost was only suppost to improve the efficiency of a miner, not its hashing speed, so it did the same but used less power. Overall of course this would lead to either being able to push the miner faster for the same power usage (if the hardware could handle it) or running more individual miners but using the same power. (e.g. if it gave a 25% reduction in power, you could run 5 miners for the power you used to run 4 miners)

Is this new version of overt ASICboost different? There are hints that the Dragonmint miners will only run at 1/4 speed on non-asicboost pools. That sort of doesn't line up with how we all thought ASICboost
It's the same form of asicboost but avoiding the switching topology to enable/disable asicboost makes the chips simpler and smaller.
In other words if a pool does not support AB the miner does NOT meet their advertised spec. Again Halong takes the 'our way and love it or bugger off' approach to their product and marketing. How are they any different than Bitmain in that respect? Answer: they are actually worse because BM so far has not crossed the false advertising (by omission) line.

Considering the nature of the AB patent and the Halong corporate attitude, personally I'm happy to say screw them and wait until Canaan joins the AB club.

For bitcoin to succeed the community must police itself - Joshua Zipkin aka Joshua Alexander leaked AMT A1 miner skype chats
How a miner mfgr SHOULD operate: HaggsFIN trip to Canaan My info useful? Donations welcome! 1Fuzzyk398kDWVjuC5qPX5v6CjSkvbgAbd
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March 08, 2018, 03:20:18 PM
 #1486

Ah, looks like a happy ending.

I still don't understand the obfuscation though. They could've been upfront about who and what they were without letting the important details slip. Even if they don't need the custom, they should've respected the well earned paranoia around here.

We aren't familiar with the intricacies of the Chinese way of doing business Smiley


Bitmain had it hidden from the public and had the patent for it meaning no one else could use the technology giving them an unfair advantage. The halong group paid dearly for the patent to buy it and then opened it up with the blockchain defensive patent license - this license means anyone can use the asicboost technology provided they don't patent anything else in their hardware. Think about it - they paid for the license, only to open it up for everyone. No one has an unfair technology advantage now.

Oh wow. Thank you!

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March 08, 2018, 07:09:11 PM
 #1487

Thing that I'd like some clarity on, ASICboost was only suppost to improve the efficiency of a miner, not its hashing speed, so it did the same but used less power. Overall of course this would lead to either being able to push the miner faster for the same power usage (if the hardware could handle it) or running more individual miners but using the same power. (e.g. if it gave a 25% reduction in power, you could run 5 miners for the power you used to run 4 miners)

Is this new version of overt ASICboost different? There are hints that the Dragonmint miners will only run at 1/4 speed on non-asicboost pools. That sort of doesn't line up with how we all thought ASICboost
It's the same form of asicboost but avoiding the switching topology to enable/disable asicboost makes the chips simpler and smaller.
In other words if a pool does not support AB the miner does NOT meet their advertised spec. Again Halong takes the 'our way and love it or bugger off' approach to their product and marketing. How are they any different than Bitmain in that respect? Answer: they are actually worse because BM so far has not crossed the false advertising (by omission) line.

Considering the nature of the AB patent and the Halong corporate attitude, personally I'm happy to say screw them and wait until Canaan joins the AB club.

I hope we're not holding our breath for long about the second part.
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March 08, 2018, 09:07:42 PM
 #1488

The default software will not allow you to even mine on non-AsicBoost pools. You'd have to modify it to do so (at the cost of efficiency and voiding the warranty probably)

Halong clarified that the speed would be no different, it'd be 16T regardless, it's just efficiency that takes a hit if the software was modified to a non-AB pool.

I'm wondering when the other manufacturers will hop on the overt AB bandwagon.

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March 08, 2018, 09:08:45 PM
 #1489

The default software will not allow you to even mine on non-AsicBoost pools. You'd have to modify it to do so (at the cost of efficiency and voiding the warranty probably)

Halong clarified that the speed would be no different, it'd be 16T regardless, it's just efficiency that takes a hit if the software was modified to a non-AB pool.

I'm wondering when the other manufacturers will hop on the overt AB bandwagon.

-ck said he was only seeing 1/4 speed after modifying to run on a non-AsicBoost pool, I'm inclined to believe him as he has one in hand.
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March 08, 2018, 09:22:42 PM
 #1490

No manufacturer will make a new miner without asicboost now and lose the 20% efficiency gains. Efficiency is everything in this game and I can't see any maker passing it up now. It'll only be a matter of time.

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March 08, 2018, 09:30:16 PM
 #1491

No manufacturer will make a new miner without asicboost now and lose the 20% efficiency gains. Efficiency is everything in this game and I can't see any maker passing it up now. It'll only be a matter of time.

Hopefully some manufacturers can offer some sort of updates to their recent equipment as well. Also, will the DRAGONMINT come
Pre configured with Slush, or your pool? Hopefully, it's yours, and it can help out Non-Corporate for once!

Click these links to learn some truth about Big Corporate mining pools stealing your money and centralizing BTCitcoin!!!
Help support the BTCitcoin community!!! Mine your BTCitcoin at a non-Corporate pool!!! BTC: 1ShazamjsPnpWDNnk3n2tAiKGMdXaSjay
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March 09, 2018, 05:27:55 AM
 #1492

-ck what work is involved pool side to support AsicBoost?
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March 09, 2018, 10:24:04 AM
 #1493

No manufacturer will make a new miner without asicboost now and lose the 20% efficiency gains. Efficiency is everything in this game and I can't see any maker passing it up now. It'll only be a matter of time.

Hopefully some manufacturers can offer some sort of updates to their recent equipment as well. Also, will the DRAGONMINT come
Pre configured with Slush, or your pool? Hopefully, it's yours, and it can help out Non-Corporate for once!
Asicboost needs asic chip hardware support. As far as I'm aware, the S9 had asicboost built in but bitmain never managed to get their software support working. It's not entirely impossible that it could be made to work but bitmain have been so secretive about everything, and so incompetent in their coding that it may never happen. No other hardware as far as I'm aware has the capability so there is no way to modify it to work.

I've been talking to halong about their pool selection and it's not clear what they're going to do but they'll probably not configure default pools but come with recommendations instead. I don't see ckpool.org suddenly becoming massive from this even though it's fee free, though they did find that pretty exciting when I first told them.

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March 09, 2018, 10:25:04 AM
 #1494

-ck what work is involved pool side to support AsicBoost?
The code to support it is in my public gits already. It needs to support a couple of new stratum messages and know how to handle an extra parameter on shares being returned.

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March 09, 2018, 11:51:32 AM
 #1495

-ck what work is involved pool side to support AsicBoost?
The code to support it is in my public gits already. It needs to support a couple of new stratum messages and know how to handle an extra parameter on shares being returned.

I look forward to pointing it at your pool.

I mine alt coins with https://simplemining.net...
I see BTC as the super highway and alt coins as taxis and trucks needed to move transactions.
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March 09, 2018, 01:51:43 PM
 #1496

-ck what work is involved pool side to support AsicBoost?
The code to support it is in my public gits already. It needs to support a couple of new stratum messages and know how to handle an extra parameter on shares being returned.

I look forward to pointing it at your pool.

Same

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March 09, 2018, 02:03:29 PM
 #1497

Hmmm it seems there is nothing stopping canaan,bitmain, innosilicon, gmo, etc from also joining this patent alliance and making a miner that is 20% faster. Since its full hash power is for btc only and it hashes at 1/4 speed without asicboost, perhaps there will be a btc miner and a sha256 miner for bch and other sha256 coins going forward.

Selling 100 dollar coupons (8units expire 11th June, 14 units expire 1st july) and 125 dollar coupon (2 unit exp 30th June). Selling at 20% of value
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March 09, 2018, 02:10:45 PM
 #1498

Hmmm it seems there is nothing stopping canaan,bitmain, innosilicon, gmo, etc from also joining this patent alliance and making a miner that is 20% faster. Since its full hash power is for btc only and it hashes at 1/4 speed without asicboost, perhaps there will be a btc miner and a sha256 miner for bch and other sha256 coins going forward.

Would be nice to get the boost out in the open and across all the pools

I mine alt coins with https://simplemining.net...
I see BTC as the super highway and alt coins as taxis and trucks needed to move transactions.
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March 09, 2018, 02:13:16 PM
 #1499

I see that these are available for order not pre order, if I purchased one today when would I expect to take delivery since they do not guarantee that they will even be delivered?  


EDIT: I do see May for delivery and that is a good wait but to be expected I guess
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March 09, 2018, 02:35:36 PM
 #1500

Hmmm it seems there is nothing stopping canaan,bitmain, innosilicon, gmo, etc from also joining this patent alliance and making a miner that is 20% faster. Since its full hash power is for btc only and it hashes at 1/4 speed without asicboost, perhaps there will be a btc miner and a sha256 miner for bch and other sha256 coins going forward.

Would be nice to get the boost out in the open and across all the pools

I got a feeling other pools will add the asicboost feature eventually. Maybe antpool wont though, since it is a competitor. But now i worry that they will make an S11 on a 10nm chip with this asicboost.  The problem is bitcoin price isnt moving higher to justify mining much now. The market is oversupplied. I wonder if dragonmint will recoup the 30million (accordin to their website) that they spent. If they make 1000/2000 usd profit per miner, they will need to sell 30,000/15,000 miners to break even.

If dragon goes into a price war with bitmain, they will likely lose and difficulty will increase. Miners will buy as the price goes down like in D3 case. For the D3, it was sold at 5k, 2.6k and 1.4k for last batch and i believe no one broke even. And now, the D3 is on sale for 550 usd...about 350 usd with coupon. Innosilicon has a dash miner that is twice as strong and an Litecoin miner that is 20% stronger than bitmains but the D3 and L3+ dominate due to far better pricing power. Well, lets hope dragon dont go into a price war and they recoup their investment on their other miners. Just my speculation.

Selling 100 dollar coupons (8units expire 11th June, 14 units expire 1st july) and 125 dollar coupon (2 unit exp 30th June). Selling at 20% of value
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