Official Thread: AMT

[plp]

By the End of march if these people have not delivered anything to any of US that has purchase a 1.2 machine ..

Who wants to find these pricks if this does not happen ? I will find them in bulgaria in china where ever the fuck there at ..

I'll plan a trip for April 6 if the the case who ever wants to join me Pm me

I will find where ever the fuck there at . I'll set up a team of people to hunt these peaces of shits down if they steal my motha fucking money .

[sirminesalot]

I will find where ever the fuck there at . I'll set up a team of people to hunt these peaces of shits down if they steal my motha fucking money .

Can we call this group the A-TEAM?

 

[Flying Hellfish]

By the End of march if these people have not delivered anything to any of US that has purchase a 1.2 machine ..

Who wants to find these pricks if this does not happen ? I will find them in bulgaria in china where ever the fuck there at ..

I'll plan a trip for April 6 if the the case who ever wants to join me Pm me

I will find where ever the fuck there at . I'll set up a team of people to hunt these peaces of shits down if they steal my motha fucking money .

If you threaten people on an internet forum - you might be a redneck!

[NotFuzzyWarm]

first let me start by saying that I am NOT out and out supporting AMT. Their lack of communications is reprehensible not so say their shall we say. less than realistic responses when they respond at all to some folks here.

That said - has anybody bothered to check out the A1 chip dev thread here?
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=294235.460
I rather doubt it. It is current up to today and very pertinent to the matter of AMT.

In a nutshell, unless I am massively wrong in reading it there are still problems regarding power supply stability and com bus timing sensitivities. Lots of other issues were there earlier on since the chips were first released to some folks to start tinkering with to see how they really work. Does not bode well for us in the short term but who knows...

Having a rather good knowledge of what it takes and happens during new chip rollouts. I understand what is happening at Bitmine.ch with the Coincraft A1 chip. If anyone, blame them for apparently giving way too many folks high hopes that for the first time I know of a brand new chip design would work as expected from the very first release-for-testing wafer(s) produced. Yes some things might be able to be helped by the foundry tweaking their processes but - unless there is ample firmware space and redundancy designed in to allow firmware tweaking to bypass gen-0 design mistakes more often than not it takes a physical design revision. Unfortunately, too many ravenous companies saw a chance to get ahead of the game (vs Bitfury 55nm chips) and Bitmine did nothing to rein them in a bit. There are what I would prefer to call development kits/boards out there and yes some working systems based on them. But...

That said, the mess AMT is in in that respect is understandable. Other companies relying on the A1 are in the same boat. Difference is they (well at least BFL) are being transparent about at - and offering some mighty fine incentives to hang in there. So far from AMT <crickets chirping>

As for the power supply issues - easy fix: just use 2 of them like these folks... http://coinhash.co/products/1-th-s-dragonminer-1000gh-s-coincraft-a1-28nm-asic-chip-bitcoin-miner-not-knc  As for is that a real working system? Dunna know but it *does* address the PSU problem.

btw: again, read the dev posts. The unexpected power usage is documented there as well.
EDIT: just read the latest post in the dev thread... up to 10% dead cores per chip? OUCH!

[Stan-O]

first let me start by saying that I am NOT out and out supporting AMT. Their lack of communications is reprehensible not so say their shall we say. less than realistic responses when they respond at all to some folks here.

That said - has anybody bothered to check out the A1 chip dev thread here?
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=294235.460
I rather doubt it. It is current up to today.

In a nutshell, unless I am massively wrong in reading it there are still problems regarding power supply stability and com bus timing sensitivities. Lots of other issues were there earlier on since the chips were first released to some folks to start tinkering with to see how they really work. Does not bode well for us in the short term but who knows...

Having a rather good knowledge of what it takes and happens during new chip rollouts. I understand what is happening at Bitmine.ch with the Coincraft A1 chip. If anyone, blame them for apparently giving way too many folks high hopes that for the first time I know of a brand new chip design would work as expected from the very first release-for-testing wafer(s) produced. Yes some things might be able to be helped by the foundry tweaking their processes but - unless there is ample firmware space and redundancy designed in to allow firmware tweaking to bypass gen-0 design mistakes more often than not it takes a physical design revision. Unfortunately, too many ravenous companies saw a chance to get ahead of the game (vs Bitfury 55nm chips) and Bitmine did nothing to rein them in a bit.

That said, the mess AMT is in in that respect is understandable. Other companies relying on the A1 are in the same boat. Difference is they (well at least BFL) are being transparent about at - and offering some mighty fine incentives to hang in there. So far from AMT <crickets chirping>

As for the power supply issues - easy fix: just use 2 of them like these folks... http://coinhash.co/products/1-th-s-dragonminer-1000gh-s-coincraft-a1-28nm-asic-chip-bitcoin-miner-not-knc  As for is that a real working system? Dunna know but it *does* address the PSU problem.

btw: again, read the dev posts. The unexpected power usage is documented there as well.

AMT could EASILY get their rep back on track, if thy were to the ones to provide this info to their customers, and not let the customers have to find out on their own.  right?

All AMT needs to do is tell the waiting customers what's up, provide a link to the supplier having issues, and 90% of them would calm down and wait, knowing their cash isn't in Bulgaria never to return.  They may have to make accommodations for a few refunds, but not nearly the shit storm they have on their hands now.

[clenell]

Here is the thing. There are those that have a right to be angry. But be very careful. While I have Craig on ignore (mostly because he comes off as a huge asshole with anyone that disagrees with him I can see why AMT would not do business with him) I have seen some of his replies quoted. Fact is if you are calling someones personal cell without their permission (or them having given it to you) then you can be nailed for harassment. Considering the amount of information Craig has already posted on Amazon with negative reviews, and various other things in this forum they will nail him to the wall in retaliation whatever the state of their business might be. And if it turns out that they are shipping a product (as there is more evidence in that with the 80GHS and other miners they actually have shipped) then they have a HUGE leg to stand on.

Just sayin harassment of that nature usually draws the attention of the FBI if a business decides they want to pursue that. Especially if it happened across state lines. Otherwise it will be a police raid. But hey take it however you want. If you don't care, then that's on you. Personally I don't think harassment and libel are worth the jailtime (or record) and fines. If you FEEL so strongly they are a scam you need to be able to prove it and so far no one has been able to PROVE anything other than that these people actually exist and are a company. Least nothing substantial that a court would consider as actual proof. They have been shipping products, have laid out terms for preorders. They can show they are not the only ones in the industry in the same boat because of manufacturing and supply. The only thing that anyone here has is conjecture and circumstantial evidence. Not sure what the deal is that you still haven't gotten a refund. But while you get that refund back, its gonna bite you in the ass in a huge way. Honestly sometimes you gotta learn to pick your battles.

In regard that they have a product, I do believe they have something and will be shipping at some point. The question in my mind isn't if but when. But that's just me. Hopefully some people get some of their devices soon and start posting pics, reviews whatever to prove it. I figure for the sake of this thread and others I will do the same. I originally had intended on not but I will post some pics if I get mine early (doubtful as I am pretty much at the ass end of the queue). But in the event it happens, figure contribute. At that point the haters got nothing. Then they truly look like trolls.

If I and others lose my investment over this, because the haters were correct? well they get their ego's stroked and get nothing for it besides the self satisfaction that they were right. Nothing gained nothing lost on their end. Some of the guys here are batshit insane with the stuff they are saying. Some are luckily out of the legal reach of the US court system, but those who aren't? If they deliver you are well and truly fucked. Just sayin. I know if I were Josh I would be coming at you with all barrels once my personal safety gets compromised (because some nutcase customer got my personal cell and called me on it). But its also batshit stuff like that, that might drive them out of the industry altogether as it might not be worth the hassle. Fact is also the silence could be the calm before the shitstorm (for those who have been blatantly libeling them. Fact is they have a HUGE leg to stand on in that front.  Lawyers might have told them stay quiet for their own protection hence the reason why to interact directly with customers. Well It will be interesting to see where this goes once the dust settles. I'm somewhat patient and can understand the manufacturing delays (if that's the case) is not entirely on them. But it would be nice to have some disclosure on it. I have said all this stuff before but it fell on deaf ears. Well not deaf. Just troll ears. I guess in that regard I am trolling the trollers who don't want to hear the truth. Truth isn't what you want it to be, its what is. Oh well.

All said tho if they did communicate a bit better or made some effort to provide general shipping and or engineering updates its likley this stuff would not happen (or happen alot less).

STFU... someone please quote me so douche bag will get the message

[NotFuzzyWarm]

first let me start by saying that I am NOT out and out supporting AMT. Their lack of communications is reprehensible not so say their shall we say. less than realistic responses when they respond at all to some folks here.

That said - has anybody bothered to check out the A1 chip dev thread here?
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=294235.460
I rather doubt it. It is current up to today.

<snip to sape tired eyes... use the link!>
btw: again, read the dev posts. The unexpected power usage is documented there as well.

EDIT: just read the latest post in the dev thread... up to 10% dead cores per chip? OUCH!

AMT could EASILY get their rep back on track, if thy were to the ones to provide this info to their customers, and not let the customers have to find out on their own.  right?

All AMT needs to do is tell the waiting customers what's up, provide a link to the supplier having issues, and 90% of them would calm down and wait, knowing their cash isn't in Bulgaria never to return.  They may have to make accommodations for a few refunds, but not nearly the shit storm they have on their hands now.

I agree 100%.

Frankly, since I'm 'only' on the hook for a 520GH unit,  if my per-order end of March deadline is not met I'd settle for them sending me 3-4 S1 ants instead ... S1's are currently cheap enough that even sending me 4, they'd still make money off me but I also get more hashing for the money I consider spent.

[sirminesalot]

Here is the thing. There are those that have a right to be angry. But be very careful. While I have Craig on ignore (mostly because he comes off as a huge asshole with anyone that disagrees with him I can see why AMT would not do business with him) I have seen some of his replies quoted. Fact is if you are calling someones personal cell without their permission (or them having given it to you) then you can be nailed for harassment. Considering the amount of information Craig has already posted on Amazon with negative reviews, and various other things in this forum they will nail him to the wall in retaliation whatever the state of their business might be. And if it turns out that they are shipping a product (as there is more evidence in that with the 80GHS and other miners they actually have shipped) then they have a HUGE leg to stand on.

Just sayin harassment of that nature usually draws the attention of the FBI if a business decides they want to pursue that. Especially if it happened across state lines. Otherwise it will be a police raid. But hey take it however you want. If you don't care, then that's on you. Personally I don't think harassment and libel are worth the jailtime (or record) and fines. If you FEEL so strongly they are a scam you need to be able to prove it and so far no one has been able to PROVE anything other than that these people actually exist and are a company. Least nothing substantial that a court would consider as actual proof. They have been shipping products, have laid out terms for preorders. They can show they are not the only ones in the industry in the same boat because of manufacturing and supply. The only thing that anyone here has is conjecture and circumstantial evidence. Not sure what the deal is that you still haven't gotten a refund. But while you get that refund back, its gonna bite you in the ass in a huge way. Honestly sometimes you gotta learn to pick your battles.

In regard that they have a product, I do believe they have something and will be shipping at some point. The question in my mind isn't if but when. But that's just me. Hopefully some people get some of their devices soon and start posting pics, reviews whatever to prove it. I figure for the sake of this thread and others I will do the same. I originally had intended on not but I will post some pics if I get mine early (doubtful as I am pretty much at the ass end of the queue). But in the event it happens, figure contribute. At that point the haters got nothing. Then they truly look like trolls.

If I and others lose my investment over this, because the haters were correct? well they get their ego's stroked and get nothing for it besides the self satisfaction that they were right. Nothing gained nothing lost on their end. Some of the guys here are batshit insane with the stuff they are saying. Some are luckily out of the legal reach of the US court system, but those who aren't? If they deliver you are well and truly fucked. Just sayin. I know if I were Josh I would be coming at you with all barrels once my personal safety gets compromised (because some nutcase customer got my personal cell and called me on it). But its also batshit stuff like that, that might drive them out of the industry altogether as it might not be worth the hassle. Fact is also the silence could be the calm before the shitstorm (for those who have been blatantly libeling them. Fact is they have a HUGE leg to stand on in that front.  Lawyers might have told them stay quiet for their own protection hence the reason why to interact directly with customers. Well It will be interesting to see where this goes once the dust settles. I'm somewhat patient and can understand the manufacturing delays (if that's the case) is not entirely on them. But it would be nice to have some disclosure on it. I have said all this stuff before but it fell on deaf ears. Well not deaf. Just troll ears. I guess in that regard I am trolling the trollers who don't want to hear the truth. Truth isn't what you want it to be, its what is. Oh well.

All said tho if they did communicate a bit better or made some effort to provide general shipping and or engineering updates its likley this stuff would not happen (or happen alot less).

STFU... someone please quote me so douche bag will get the message

I am very concerned that your refund check never came. I was really waiting to see if you'd be the first person to get refunded.

Besides Grumpysgirl; who had their order bought/facilitated transfer through AMT; no one has yet to receive an ACTUAL refund from AMT.

Very worrying.

[YourPalToots]

Where the pictures were taken

40.013228,-75.295929

[FrictionlessCoin]

Where the pictures were taken

40.013228,-75.295929

237 Montgomery Ave
Haverford, PA 19041

Which pictures are you referring to anyway?

[NotFuzzyWarm]

Where the pictures were taken

40.013228,-75.295929

To which Google returns as a condo,,, https://www.google.com/search?q=40.013228%2C-75.295929&oq=40.013228%2C-75.295929&aqs=chrome..69i57&sourceid=chrome&espv=210&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8
I'd assume they are referring to postit & empty tower pic.

[FrictionlessCoin]

BTW, DragonMiner isn't the only coincraft miner that is on sale.

Here's another one:  https://www.minersource.net/products/1-th-slash-s-28nm-miner

[NotFuzzyWarm]

BTW, DragonMiner isn't the only coincraft miner that is on sale.

Here's another one:  https://www.minersource.net/products/1-th-slash-s-28nm-miner

Again, note the solution to the PSU issue - use 2 of them and scrap the current case design if ya dinna plan on this from the git-go. From what is being said in the A1 dev forum I rather assume all of these are based on what I would call development boards similar to these that Bitfury offer for their chips. http://www.bitfurystrikesback.com/shop/

[ISAWHIM]

I will find where ever the fuck there at . I'll set up a team of people to hunt these peaces of shits down if they steal my motha fucking money .

Can we call this group the A-TEAM?

 

The A1-TEAM! (Avoids copyright issues. Well, unless we use a steak-sauce bottle pouring over a Philly Cheese-steak!)

Better yet, we could call ourselves the AM-TEAM... No... Then people would think the job would never get done.

So AMT is the A-TEAM and BitMine is the B-TEAM... Who is the C-TEAM... Oh CoinCraft/BitMine, they count as two teams... Who is the D-TEAM?

Remember, there is no "F" in miners! (Play on words, say it out loud.)

Remember, there is no "I" in TEAM... Well, there is also no "U"... So neither of us are on the team!

Just replying with random garbage, so this thread does not get lost in my giant list of posts. Going back to my corner again. xD

[NotFuzzyWarm]

I will find where ever the fuck there at . I'll set up a team of people to hunt these peaces of shits down if they steal my motha fucking money .

Can we call this group the A-TEAM?

 

The A1-TEAM! (Avoids copyright issues. Well, unless we use a steak-sauce bottle pouring over a Philly Cheese-steak!)

Better yet, we could call ourselves the AM-TEAM... No... Then people would think the job would never get done.

So AMT is the A-TEAM and BitMine is the B-TEAM... Who is the C-TEAM... Oh CoinCraft/BitMine, they count as two teams... Who is the D-TEAM?

Remember, there is no "F" in miners! (Play on words, say it out loud.)

Remember, there is no "I" in TEAM... Well, there is also no "U"... So neither of us are on the team!

Just replying with random garbage, so this thread does not get lost in my giant list of posts. Going back to my corner again. xD

1st, +10 on the humor! much needed here...
Um, since you are one of the regulars in the A1 dev thread, any thoughts on how goings on there affect us here in regards to AMT? I know you might have to tread a fine line with comments in regards to how other vendors/resellers may act but any insight as to what the delays are or might be from would be of immense value!

Er, also about power staging - if possible have the chips/boards sequentially turn off or step down to lower speeds to keep the rails from bouncing up and tripping any OV protection you might have. At the currents and speeds they can change that the chips can be pulling, even the at 1st glance minimal wiring inductance present gives a nice little kick back not to mention whatever response the regulators have... I design & work with high power systems (fiber lasers) and that can be a vexing problem as much as dips are.

[ISAWHIM]

Um, since you are one of the regulars in the A1 dev thread, any thoughts on how goings on there affect us here in regards to AMT? I know you might have to tread a fine line in regards to how other vendors/resellers may act but any insight as to what the delays are or might be from would be of immense value!

The A1 chip design seems to have normal chip issues. As far as I can tell. (Seems to be 92% operating as expected, 100% in most areas.)

The other half of the issues seem to be external physical issues, with the supporting devices. (Related to communications and power from the circuits that drive the chips.)

The communications issues, seem to be a mixture of software/programming and some physical issues, stated above.

The software side is trying to be adapted to the chips physical limitations, related to tuning the specific hardware. The physical hardware, as with all first, second, and third revisions, is also being tuned. (Which often-times requires board redesign for new components to be added, or groups of components to be removed.) As for the A1 chip itself, I believe it is simply a layering issue with the package design. There is little that can be done for this chip at the moment, with exception for external supporting hardware changes and software flow of operation. If anything, all this effort will lead to an A2 design, for a future system.

As for AMT, the issue they are attempting to work around, is the shortcomings of the original design. Which they apparently put too much trust into "securing in advance". An obvious attempt to "get it made and get it out" as fast as possible. However, the shortcomings of the design have impacted the ability to use that setup in a cost-effective way. (All this stalling is further impacting that ability for returns too. It is a catch-22 situation.)

The position they seem to be in, is this...
1: Give everyone sub-par equipment that they might legally be entitled to return, adding even more overhead to loss...
2: Make everyone wait a little longer, so that a less lossy design can be fabricated, adding more potential reason to demand returns...
3: Start from scratch with a "new design", and HOPE that covers enough losses, with additional expenses going towards more components and "Protection-Plans", giving them something they might feel compelled to just keep and mine with...

At the moment, I think they have opted to ignore option #1, in-favor of a mixture of option #2 and #3. Since option #1 would have required giving many of us 2 units, under-clocked to consume less power and deliver the same hashing-power, with nearly double the boards/chips/PSU's.

I personally would have done this...
1: Give returns to anyone who wished. (Since they would have been getting a 1.5THs-2.0THs unit now, by the MPP. Money coming from some guy who just ordered a new machine, that would not be in the MPP and would thus be a 1.2THs machine, needing to be delivered 1-2months later.)
2: Offer anyone who wished, a "rush delivery", of a "sub-par system", indicating it as such, as an "it works", "pre-release". (With limited warranty. That would be a few who "needed it".)
3: Offered those who desired it, an "approved longer wait", for the "new design". Which would reset their wait-time, to the head of the line for the new boards, with any new MPP for that design.
4: Extended the estimated shipping-times for new orders, which were more realistic to compensate for any more "issues" that would have come through. (Delivering early, where possible, as a bonus... Otherwise on-time, for a bonus to AMT... Otherwise slightly late, with reason, with limited loss to all. As opposed to horribly late and late without explanation, notice, or any other communication.)

However, I am not them... They have failed to even contact me back about my serious offer to aid them with assistance that they asked for, even if only to say, "Sorry, we don't think we will need your offered services."

Not sure if any of that helps you sleep better. It isn't helping me sleep any better. Then again, I am an insomniac anyways. Sleep is something I do when my body refuses to stop responding to my brain. It is not a welcome thing, or a planned daily event for me.

[NotFuzzyWarm]

Oh good Lord... ^bump^ Do you realize what kind of firestorm ye will have just unleashed here?

And thank you for confirming what I garnered reading the entire dev thread. These are known/suspected issues and AMT shoulda been up front from day-1 about it. (also, why had no one else found that dev thread? After all, it *is* on the Bitmine support pages...) Woulda
 taken care of this mess long ago. Don'tch just love shoulda & woulda's... Li'sigh

Maybe add another option - give us all Antminer S1's. Enough to at least match the as-advertised hashing speeds folks were sold... AMT still might even still make money depending on out-of-pocket commitments to suppliers/contract assemblers so far...

[ISAWHIM]

Maybe add another option - give us all Antminer S1's. Enough to at least match the as-advertised hashing speeds folks were sold... AMT still might even still make money depending on out-of-pocket commitments to suppliers/contract assemblers so far...

I'd settle for that option too. They are just re-sellers anyways, up until now. So that would not hurt their image, only help it. 1.2THs or 2.0THs is fine, no matter where it comes from. I don't care if it comes from a miner called "Potty-Flush 2000", I am surprised they don't have ANTs listed as an option. I am sure they could have gotten a better deal with them anyways. BitMine does not seem like they are helping anyone much, including the re-sellers.

[NotFuzzyWarm]

Also, while I have you here, "layering issues"? As perhaps in heat dissipation through an interposer if the chips use one? I might be able to help immensely there if it is an organic fiberglass) substrate that is used.

[ISAWHIM]

Also, while I have you here, "layering issues"? As perhaps in heat dissipation through an interposer if the chips use one? I might be able to help immensely there if it is an organic fiberglass) substrate that is used.

I believe the chips internal structure has (don't quote me on this), three layers in the chip itself. (I think I picked that out of one of the technical design documents.) Silicon from screwed-up dies and imperfect scraps are also commonly used as a heat-transfer medium. (That is what the GPU's use. The shiny surface is just a layer of silicon over the whole case. Same if you pull-off the metal case from any of the covered CPU's. They only use the metal case for extending the surface-area with the heat-sink and to reduce compression stress-load from the tightly pressing heat-sink, which would otherwise crush the thin layer of silicon. We use wood-blocks to pop the tops off of CPU's for direct fluid cooling. )

The majority of heat is pulled from the bottom of the chip, on the pad closest to the "processor layer". (The other two layers, I believe were the memory and data communications? Sitting above that "hot layer".)

This is just some random image of a three-layer design... Not the A1. (Someone would have to throw it into an acid-bath to wash-away the epoxy shell, to confirm the internal layers structure.)





P.S. It could be that the layers they talked about were "virtual layers", as in, separated on a singular die. However, these flip-chips usually indicate multi-layer stacking. So I have assumed the 28nm HPP process they used, was a 3-physical-layer setup. (If all on a singular layer, but isolated, then the hot layer would be the outer-edge layer, with the chip flipped for the pads to have larger direct faces and to allow better cooling against the heat-transfer substrate.)