Official Thread: AMT

[sirminesalot]

Whether its a SCAM or Complete Incompetence - we get shafted in the end.

At least if it's scam, the money may still be somewhere it can be taken back from. Who knows.

Incompetence means they spent most, if not all the money on these speculative hardware configurations and failed miserably. Whether that is all returnable to get us some refunds, remains to be seen. Not sure how a chip distributor refunds someone for thousands of dollars worth of chips that have already been soldered to defective custom boards...

AMT's behavior indicates scam, yet their early Bitfury based models (poor build quality/qa) indicates technical incompetence.

It sucks when you are hoping a company you bought from is run by retards instead of being a scam.

 

[1714756388]

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[1714756388]

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[captin crunch]

The only facts I have are the ones in front of me. What they are doing and not doing. That is all. Everything else is speculation. I offer the ifs ONLY so people see another side of it and not a single view. Legally speaking they have until March 31st for the orders they promised. For the February ones they are WAY past that. Their website clearly stated March 31st. Unfortunately that is likely the angle a court is going to look at unless you have a really sympathetic judge willing to look at this forum. Again opinion and speculation which I have been stating.

Only thing we do KNOW is that they have not delivered their 1.2THs miners. We can agree on that. (can't really speak about the other hardware regardless of quality)
They have not kept their promises and have welshed on refunds. That much is clear. I think we can agree on that (seeing as its been stated repeatedly).

Keep in mind when CLennel, myself and several others on here ordered the website cearly said our miners would ship the last week of Dec. to the 1st week of Jan. and would consume 300-600 watts. since then we have been given numerous dates, all of which have come and gone.

Picture yourself sitting here in June wondering if you will ever see your money or your equipment knowing that everyhing they have told you up to that point has been a complete lie. Will you still be trying to calm people down, I wonder?

I think it was you who mentioned people tossing the word scam around to much. (i could be wrong) I agree and I probably even used the word a couple of times for lack of another more accurate word. After more thought I think you were right. Fraud is a much more accurate description of what is taking place here in my opinion.

[captin crunch]

What worries me the most is the fact that AMT refers to receiving one of their miners as punishment

[opieum2]

Yea the whole call for calm and stop calling them a scam it's what got me labeled a shill.
 
Right once they refuse to issue refunds to customers who were given an expectation of a product by a certain date and did not receive it. That is considered fraud under the law. There also was no ALL SALES are final. Even if there were the law trumps that clause. The people who were promised in December have EVERY right to go to court now if they have not gotten their hardware or miners. There has been no valid explanation as to why the hardware is late this far in. This is not something we should have to even do detective work to find out. We know bitmine is having issues. But this should have been communicated to us by AMT.

Again poor business communication. Had I realized this earlier on I might not have gone and made a purchase here. The only thing everyone here has been asking for is updates. Not replies to people who want freebies just engineering updates. They now have a situation they need to remediate one way or another. That is either gain back the confidence of the community by somehow providing some kind of compensation, refunds or just deliver. But since they have clammed up then they have left people with no choice but to get their money back the hard way. This is going to cost them far more than it would if they just issued the refunds as requested.

I dont plan on pre-ordering miners from anyone UNLESS they have a consistent and proven track record in delivery. It is not a risk anyone should have to take.

[opieum2]

What worries me the most is the fact that AMT refers to receiving one of their miners as punishment

That is a double edged sword which is why I see it as a win for him. If he gets a defective miner as a "punishment" something that does not perform or has problems, he has his smoking gun to go after them for fraud. This was done in bad faith which again is legally viable. That said since the conversation was had over the phone its all hearsay at this point which wont be admissible even if he recorded the call (two party consent state). On the other hand if he gets a working miner as advertised well he gets what he paid for and really loses ground to stand on...BUT can now use the miner to its intended purpose (disregarding ROI issues court might not consider all that in a speculative market but I am no lawyer just basing it on my own experience in the past)

If he gets his refund, he wins. He gets to spend that money on another miner or whatever he wants after that. IMO not as big a win as getting the hardware. But that's my just me.

Now the only way he loses if he gets nothing which is exactly what is happening now. He has nothing at the present time. In which case he now has to fight a legal battle. Which in a way is a hassle but one worth fighting at least to recoup losses and put them on notice that their customers should not be going through this. Likely they will settle quickly just to sweep it under the rug at this point. They won't be able to do the same tactic again without now coming under substantial scrutiny of the court. Once you settle you set a precedent. I believe (not sure here) they could be held in contempt of court if they pull the same tactic on someone else. They need to correct the bad behavior in order to make good on their part of the settlement as well if it is not merely a monetary settlement.

[sirminesalot]

Like I said before: One of AMT's first orders of business was to turn this community against each other for a 5% discount.

5% is all it took to turn everyone against one another.

Sad state of affairs.

[sirminesalot]

What worries me the most is the fact that AMT refers to receiving one of their miners as punishment

If he gets his refund, he wins. He gets to spend that money on another miner or whatever he wants after that. IMO not as big a win as getting the hardware. But that's my just me.

Why would you want their miner, when you could go out NOW and buy up more hashing power for less money?

Yes, that IS just you.

[captin crunch]

Yea the whole call for calm and stop calling them a scam it's what got me labeled a shill.
 
Right once they refuse to issue refunds to customers who were given an expectation of a product by a certain date and did not receive it. That is considered fraud under the law. There also was no ALL SALES are final. Even if there were the law trumps that clause. The people who were promised in December have EVERY right to go to court now if they have not gotten their hardware or miners. There has been no valid explanation as to why the hardware is late this far in. This is not something we should have to even do detective work to find out. We know bitmine is having issues. But this should have been communicated to us by AMT.

Again poor business communication. Had I realized this earlier on I might not have gone and made a purchase here. The only thing everyone here has been asking for is updates. Not replies to people who want freebies just engineering updates. They now have a situation they need to remediate one way or another. That is either gain back the confidence of the community by somehow providing some kind of compensation, refunds or just deliver. But since they have clammed up then they have left people with no choice but to get their money back the hard way. This is going to cost them far more than it would if they just issued the refunds as requested.

I dont plan on pre-ordering miners from anyone UNLESS they have a consistent and proven track record in delivery. It is not a risk anyone should have to take.

Agree with everything you said. If I didn't lurk so long I probably would have the shill label as well because I was really pulling for them to come through but as time went by I became more and more concerned. I gave AMT credit when it was due but that has been some time ago know as they haven't been due any for several weeks.

I do hope you get your machine in a timely manner but have reason for serious doubt. There is only one person on here I hope has to wait forever to get his machine and that is RWmax (if he even exists) notice how he only posts between AMT's posts.

Looking forward to that video of him showing up on April 1st to pick up his miner. (like that's going to happen.)

[captin crunch]

That said since the conversation was had over the phone its all hearsay at this point which wont be admissible even if he recorded the call (two party consent state).

I'm pretty sure he posted an e-mail they sent him saying the same thing about a month ago

[Stan-O]

What worries me the most is the fact that AMT refers to receiving one of their miners as punishment

If he gets his refund, he wins. He gets to spend that money on another miner or whatever he wants after that. IMO not as big a win as getting the hardware. But that's my just me.

Why would you want their miner, when you could go out NOW and buy up more hashing power for less money?

Yes, that IS just you.

EXACTLY!!  if i were given the choice of a refund, or one of their rigs, I would MUCH rather have had my money returned.  Then i would have been able to spend it on a decent rig, or 2 or 3, that might actually have a chance to ROI, without having to chase alts around, trying to find the one that is more profitable than btc on that given day.  I would much rather just set a rig to a btc pool and leave it.

Hopefully you guys get something out of them, and soon.  I really do feel lucky that i didnt have a bunch of money at the time, and they only got me for $1600.  Had i been shopping for a miner a month earlier, i could be right here with you, waiting and wondering if I'll ever see my rig or my $6000.

BTW, i've been trying to sell this 80GH rig, and cant even get $600 for it.  That's about my bottom line price, since that is the amount it would take to get another antminer s1 sent my way.  lol.   worse depreciation than a new car.

[FrictionlessCoin]

BTW, i've been trying to sell this 80GH rig, and cant even get $600 for it.  That's about my bottom line price, since that is the amount it would take to get another antminer s1 sent my way.  lol.   worse depreciation than a new car.

SHA-256 miner depreciation is crazy.

If you want to avoid that, GPU mining depreciation isn't that bad at all,  in fact,  the price sometimes appreciates.  That's because they are dual purpose,  a lot of gamers would be happy to buy a used high end graphics card.

I usually just do GPU mining.  Unfortunately my first foray into ASIC mining was AMT.  What a bad mistake.

[sirminesalot]

And, for you fucks thinking I'm posting anti-Semitic remarks, please consider that I'm Jewish, and Joshy Boy stated that he's Jewish in this YouTube video where he and Tyler destroy a Nashville Walmart: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7Dgp43QMzc#t=148. He's also Bulgarian, so no harm there, and he lied about knowing anything about Freemasons, when in fact his daddy are one.

This is just fucking sad.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7Dgp43QMzc#t=148

For those of you that haven't watched the video yet, it's the AMT founder (Joshua Zipkin) and his buddy in Wal-Mart comparing the contents of two different mountain dew cans. Yes, the same Joshua Zipkin that is responsible for our miners.

I'm pretty disgusted with this jackass.

+1 Phinneus

[sirminesalot]

Lying about University credentials is also very telling of his character.

If you're willing to lie about your education on several online profiles and resumes, then you probably wouldn't just stop there. I wouldn't be surprised if Joshua Zipkin has a criminal record or has committed multiple frauds in the past. I guess one benefit of doing business in Bulgaria for him is that they wouldn't check his university credentials and he can lie his ass about his education and job history in the States.

Everything we read about Joshua Zipkin is shady & negative. In retrospect, he'd be the last guy I'd trust with my money.

[opieum2]

okay, just spoke with Josh on the phone. he said hes not going to refund my money and that now hes going to ship my miner tomorrow as punishment. lol. I told him i don't want his vaporware i want a refund. he hung up.

i just sent most of you information for the attorney im speaking with. Josh is a huge asshole and you know what? Josh actually believes he's a victim in all of this. good luck getting your money back. this man is going to fight to keep our money.

Funny how AMT_MINERS (aka: Josh Zipkin) posted so adamantly from the beginning about how AMT_Miners WAS NOT solely Joshua Zipkin, and that Josh played a smaller role in the company. Remember him saying that multiple AMT workers posted here to this thread under that account?

Now, all of a sudden: Josh is the only person responding to all these inquiries; and making decisions for people (shipping you a miner as punishment). Ridiculous.

Like I said from the start, Joshua Zipkin is the CEO and ultimately responsible for our money. He tried to downplay his involvement in the beginning, only to protect his ass.

Probably was true in the beginning. based on his online profiles which have been covered in this thread, he does have his hands in various business ventures not at all unusual for an entrepreneur. He probably gives the day to day ops to someone else. This is normal with CEOs. But you are right on one point. He is ultimately responsible as he is the CEO and owner of the company. From a legal standpoint shipping the miner allows him to fulfill his obligation to clenell and now clenell has no claim to sue. It is strategic. The preorder thing still applies here as it was technically sent to him by the 31st (assuming it gets to him by then bottom line it matters WHEN it was sent not when it got there). From a legal side this is sort of a punishment. Can't go after him any more after that without it turning into actual harassment (altho he is toeing the line on that one now and it could come back to bite him in the ass, no offense meant just a fact).  

Agh keep saying I am going to leave the thread but I am bored to tears at the moment.

Read back and do some digging into Joshua Zipkin's other "business ventures". They are all bullshit start-ups with fake reviews and no real substance.

These were the original warning signs for AMT.

Thanks to Augusto, Phin and the others that dug deep.  Many of you said they were jerks for 'making it personal' but I believe that once you engage in a business agreement with someone, their business history is fair game.

We should also think about JIM BROWN who is in on this and has a lot of information about what is going on. He should also be held accountable for his actions and involvement.

Apologies, for I just posted the same above prior to reading your post, otherwise I would have just given you a +1 or the like.

Regardless of legitimacy it is just how they are run at times. I have worked for CEOs (who ran legit operations) that just had their hands in various pies and delegated the day to day to people. Take Eric Schmidt (google) he is on the board of some other companies and in charge or investing in various things. This is just a matter of diversifying income. Nothing inherently wrong with any of that. I wont speak to the ethics of any of the prior business ventures, but it's clear this one is being mismanaged for whatever reason. Customers are not getting replies and that is never a good sign.

I still stand by the personal side of things. From a legal standpoint it opens one up for retaliation should they decide to go go after someone this is usually a desperate tactic to do whatever to regain their reputation or some money if they see it. Their business history on the other hand is relevant (which you have posted phin and is useful info). I could care less about his personal life and what toilet paper he uses or whatever (in the event anyone gets into that much detail lol). I like to keep things outside that and focus on what I can use to bolster an overall case that shows why one should or should not do business with them. A court won't care much about hearsay and personal details UNLESS those specific details are very relevant to the case at hand and can be clearly proven. For instance Casey who went to actually check their business out and check its existence. That was something worth doing. At least to validate they physically existed as a business. It also gave us insight into their practices which now has given us a rise to more information on them. They have multiple operations/offices in the area. Again nothing shady about that.  It also prompted a response from AMT even if not favorable. Sad that it had to come to that to get any reply from them.

If they intend to "punish" customers, then they are on really bad footing already. Customers have ALOT more power in this. Their business can suffer and essentially get blacklisted on reputation alone. Even if legal avenues are exhausted things like this thread will exist to put a smear. Now the individuals in the company will have a reputation. SO to some degree personal will work here. But not in courtroom. As bad as BFL was with delivery they were never this bad to openly punish their customers and even admit it (again if there was an email its a smoking gun otherwise its just hearsay). My own interactions with them have not been hostile so I wont speak to that, but I am not happy to say the least as I am no longer getting replies and noone else appears to be either unless they contact Josh's personal cell (not something that should even be necessary).

Failed businesses are a norm in the startup world. I have been part of a couple of them and well things just dont work out or investors give up. It happens. Nothing shady, BUT how they failed can make a difference. That would be the key ingredient into knowing things. If they failed because of business viability nothing wrong...if it failed because there was an SEC violation or some fraud perpetrated? Ok that changes alot of things. HOW those businesses failed will give more insight. At this point tho its all irrelevant. We are already at critical mass and mobilizing as a community. Least some of us. I am still holding out until the end of the month as for my legal commitment (as they advertised) until March 31st to get my miner. Their website clearly listed that date for delivery. A snapshot was easy to get from various sources so easy enough to prove. I did find another intresting tidbit tho. Earlier in feb they had listed the 1.2 miner as a 1.5 miner. Was there ever a reason for that change?http://web.archive.org/web/20140208045336/https://advancedminers.com/bitcoin-mining-hardware/1-5ths-bitcoin-miner/

[rik_khaos]

Probably wanted to get one less board in the machine to stretch the chips further. More chips, more boards, more miners, more money. If you believe the outlandish theory that they just mismanaged their business.


By the way is their proof that he's lied about attending and or graduating form Penn state? Or is this just another random accusation?

Good things to keep in mind:



And I need some help identifying an address, if you have sharp eyes I'll send you the picture. I think I've make out the street, just not the address numbers. Could be mutually beneficial to all our cases.

[captin crunch]

for those of you that want to know how AMT treats customers have a look.

Craig,

You know what, I don't have the time to call Amazon right now because im worried about getting everyone else their orders. Here's what will happen, you will call amazon and get your negative comment removed, and once that is removed we'll issue you a refund. Because you need your money back Craig, and I know that. So once that negative review for a product that you didnt even buy is down, I'll send your refund back to you and you'll us alone.

Otherwise, we'll send you your miner and you can mine your money back.

Which would you prefer Craig Lenell??


On 2/21/2014 3:22 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
Oh you actually posted a review on a product that you never paid for? we'll get that removed shortly dont worry.

Craig, we're sending you a refund back to your address via check. you have no more options in this matter, you dont get your machine like everyone else next week.

You are bad person. You better leave me and our company alone from this point forward. Or we will open civil and legal action against you I promise you that.

I'll send you your tracking number shortly with your refund. please don't post on our thread anymore.  

All the best

Jim Brown.

My mistake. I guess the word punish was not used but that is sure the feeling I was left with after reading it.

[captin crunch]

I'm not versed in these kind of things, but while having only Bitcointalk, flicker and AMT's site open, my laptop gave me a warning, and upon viewing what it was, I discovered the following, of which this is the very time I've ever opened up this device (a few minutes ago):

That's fucked up. I did a quick scan and search and no infections here but haven't been to their site today.

[captin crunch]

it looks like the coinminer was picked up at 12:04 this morning (your time) but the redirect virus was picked up a while ago. the first may have been picked up because of the second

meaning the coinminer may have been picked up because of the redirect virus.

Probably picked something up on one of those Bulgarian Freemason websites.

[mdiggy]

Has anyone looked at Josh's other YouTube video?? I honestly don't understand...

[sirminesalot]

Wonder where RWMAX went? (AKA: Joshua Zipkin)

Sirminesalot:

You are a joke and obviously a hired troll. Your posts are retarded, and obviously created to try and sway readers opinions of AMT. No one cares who is behind AMT or who works in their office. No one cares about corporate filings and registrations in an industry that creates a deregulated currency.

I'm a fan of AMT. I love the fact that they just get'r done. They are an unorthodox group of guys from Philly, they lack that high level of class and pr that we all know so well from so many other companies that have made us wait or havn't delivered at all. Their pricing is affordable and their legal status is unknown or possibly somewhat grey. They offer a product, we buy it and it works. If i had to compare the characteristics of AMT to anything, the first that comes to mind is simply.. Bitcoin itself.

I was hesitant at first but after receiving one of their 128's and excellent support from Jim while setting it up, I ordered three 1.2th's.

My experience thus far:

I ordered a 128ghs in late November, I received it the first week of January. They were late with about 5 days from their suggested 4 week delivery. This was attributed to the holidays.

When I received my miner it was a bit discombobulated due to shipping and possible poor installation/mounting of the boards. I spoke with jim on the phone, he walked me through it step by step and i was mining about 30 minutes later and have been so since. Also, it was at 12:30am when he provided that support.

I felt happy, and satisfied, and the next week I ordered three 1.2's and look forward to receiving them.

Sirminesalot, your efforts to tarnish this one legitimate company are noticed by many, they see through your bullshit and they realize your a either a paid shrill or 14 year old that cant afford a miner. Please take AMT's earlier advice and just go away. No one likes you here and your ultimately not welcome.

The difference between every other mining manufacturer and AMT is the personalized approach they offer to their clients. The fact that they are even trying to give support is a plus in my book, I ordered from Hashfast and I still can't get them on the phone.  AMT answers the phone when you call and returns messages when you leave them. They are one of the 4 companies in this great country of ours that manufacture these machines and we need to support them in anyway we can to help them become the empire they will become. They are still offering March delivery while everyone else offers May, its because they are real and that's the real build time based on their current orders.

I don't want a slice of credible PR followed by a bad news report or updates in my inbox regarding delays and upgrades on a minner that will never come. I dont need technical details of their miners or pics of their boards or care who's chip their using. I need a hashrate and consumption estimate. I took a gamble on this industry, on bitcoin, on the difficulty and on the guys from AMT. And how ever unorthodox they may be, they are in America and they have shipped miners.

That's all I care about, receiving my miners.

- Max order#1162

Sirminesalot:

I'm a repeat customer of AMT. My first order has been fulfilled, my second order will be fulfilled as well. If i follow this thread right, your not even a customer of AMT.

We're not kissing ass, we're just glad that there is a company that is legit, located in america, and ships miners to it's customers.

If AMT delivers, people won't care who is behind it. Just like you don't care who is behind the majority of the products you buy. When you book a plane ticket, do you care who is behind Expedia? No you don't, you simply reserved your plane ticket, and Expedia takes your money for your order.

AMT just got their chips in on Friday the 31st. They reported a problem with the boards on Wednesday, and honestly i'd be skeptical if there wasn't a problem.  Ordering new boards takes time, 3 business day minimum and express prices are quite a lot in the PCB printing world. If they get their boards in this week, yes they could ship out end of the week, beginning of next week. And they have just said that they will do just that.

If they have their chips for more than a month and haven't delivered anything we will start asking questions. But as of now, if they start shipping next week, that'll actually be impressive in this industry.

Also, those that have declared ownership, paid for PR, had great reps and good backgrounds, skillsets applicable to the industry and millions to work with still have not gotten the job done. In such instances all we see is a name of a guy we don't know who made a miner that overheats. But at least we know his name, his position, his title and ownership percentage, and the fact that he probably wears his BLUETOOTH headset while he bangs the broad of the evening which has been written off as a company expense. That's really important stuff.

At this point, we'll take the shady co from Philly that sells on amazon which has already delivered a product.

Sirminesalot, I don't think you mine a lot. And again no one likes you.

Name:   RWmax
Posts:   35
Activity:   35
Position:   Jr. Member
Date Registered:   February 11, 2014, 07:05:21 AM
Last Active:   March 20, 2014, 05:35:34 PM

Oh, well good to know Josh is checking the thread with THAT username at least.