[BitFunder] Moving Forward/Resolution Process

[CumpsD]

"bitcoind block 177596 issue" - Where can I find more info on this? Besides from seeing that it's quite a big block from 2012

He meant block 277596 Here is some information I gathered in another thread:

<Problems with block 277956>

Some bitcoin clients wont accept block 277956 for some reason.

This is some #bitcoin-dev discussion about the issue:
http://bitcoinstats.com/irc/bitcoin-dev/logs/2013/12/29
http://bitcoinstats.com/irc/bitcoin-dev/logs/2013/12/30 <- Ukyo asked for some advice in this one.

Even http://blockexplorer.com/ is stuck on block 277955.

Thanks, read through all of it, seems more bad luck, as others apparently managed to get it fixed rather easy (by waiting or upgrading), but reading Ukyo's log that didn't work in his case

[DobZombie]

Got any updates Uyko?

[lophie]

Its so funny how this guy waives his penis in our faces like this. People he really did steal the coins and he cannot prove otherwise! Okay let me wake you up with a simple prove.

Ukyo, if the private keys for a large number of bitcoins were lost, At least you have the records of lost to what addresses, not all of them just say 20% of the lost funds, say 250BTC, just a couple of addresses. Looking at those addresses at blockchain.info will give an approximation of a time frame where the coins got stuck and they should be there unmoved ever since.

He cannot provide such addresses because he is lying. He stole them and he understands how hard is to get to him legally,

So basically Ukyo you stole 94% of our money, its okay but I promise you we will find you one day andwe will hurt the ones close to you. Look into their eyes and smiling faces and remember it was your unethical irresponsible behaviour and kleptotardness that made them suffer. Little by little we are getting more information about you. We are everywhere and we are indeed plotting. We will hurt you directly and through them.

*mod edit* Death threats aren't necessary - SaltySpitoon

Have a shitty day.

[ADgordo]

Its so funny how this guy waives his penis in our faces like this. People he really did steal the coins and he cannot prove otherwise! Okay let me wake you up with a simple prove.

Ukyo, if the private keys for a large number of bitcoins were lost, At least you have the records of lost to what addresses, not all of them just say 20% of the lost funds, say 250BTC, just a couple of addresses. Looking at those addresses at blockchain.info will give an approximation of a time frame where the coins got stuck and they should be there unmoved ever since.

He cannot provide such addresses because he is lying. He stole them and he understands how hard is to get to him legally,

So basically Ukyo you stole 94% of our money, its okay but I promise you we will find you one day andwe will hurt the ones close to you. Look into their eyes and smiling faces and remember it was your unethical irresponsible behaviour and kleptotardness that made them suffer. Little by little we are getting more information about you. We are everywhere and we are indeed plotting. We will hurt you directly and through them.

Please don't commit suicide before we get to you, We want you to enjoy the show, Your next couple of years will be very interesting. I will be very generous to offer you this advice, Get bodyguards and guns, you WILL need them.

Have a shitty day.

You want to harm someone's friends because of something he may or may not have done, let alone harm another individual?  Get the fuck off this planet you shitty little mini-Hitler. 

[lophie]

Its so funny how this guy waives his penis in our faces like this. People he really did steal the coins and he cannot prove otherwise! Okay let me wake you up with a simple prove.

Ukyo, if the private keys for a large number of bitcoins were lost, At least you have the records of lost to what addresses, not all of them just say 20% of the lost funds, say 250BTC, just a couple of addresses. Looking at those addresses at blockchain.info will give an approximation of a time frame where the coins got stuck and they should be there unmoved ever since.

He cannot provide such addresses because he is lying. He stole them and he understands how hard is to get to him legally,

So basically Ukyo you stole 94% of our money, its okay but I promise you we will find you one day andwe will hurt the ones close to you. Look into their eyes and smiling faces and remember it was your unethical irresponsible behaviour and kleptotardness that made them suffer. Little by little we are getting more information about you. We are everywhere and we are indeed plotting. We will hurt you directly and through them.

Please don't commit suicide before we get to you, We want you to enjoy the show, Your next couple of years will be very interesting. I will be very generous to offer you this advice, Get bodyguards and guns, you WILL need them.

Have a shitty day.

You want to harm someone's friends because of something he may or may not have done, let alone harm another individual?  Get the fuck off this planet you shitty little mini-Hitler. 

I can assure you he is not in the may or may not have done it area anymore, I am also very angry and my methods will not be understood by you.

[Bogart]

To add to the speculation, are there any legal pros here who can say what sort of a legal mechanism could possibly have been applied to cause the BTC to become unavailable, and also to bar Ukyo and Graet from discussing the matter?

I can think of some to cause the former, but I'm not managing to come up with any that would cause the latter.

[WeexUser]

To add to the speculation, are there any legal pros here who can say what sort of a legal mechanism could possibly have been applied to cause the BTC to become unavailable, and also to bar Ukyo and Graet from discussing the matter?

I can think of some to cause the former, but I'm not managing to come up with any that would cause the latter.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gag_order
"A national security letter, an administrative subpoena used by the FBI, has an attached gag order which restricts the recipient from ever saying anything about being served with one. The government has issued hundreds of thousands of such NSLs accompanied with gag orders."

I am not a "legal pro" but to speculate, it could be that some users have been involved in some criminal activity and some government agency are holding everyone's coins while the case is being investigated.

[twentyseventy]

Christ, guys. I'm pretty sure Occam's Razor applies here.

What are the chances that a gag order has been issued vs. the likelihood that Ukyo is simply a scammer, incompetent, or just making up stories to buy time?

[ADgordo]

Its so funny how this guy waives his penis in our faces like this. People he really did steal the coins and he cannot prove otherwise! Okay let me wake you up with a simple prove.

Ukyo, if the private keys for a large number of bitcoins were lost, At least you have the records of lost to what addresses, not all of them just say 20% of the lost funds, say 250BTC, just a couple of addresses. Looking at those addresses at blockchain.info will give an approximation of a time frame where the coins got stuck and they should be there unmoved ever since.

He cannot provide such addresses because he is lying. He stole them and he understands how hard is to get to him legally,

So basically Ukyo you stole 94% of our money, its okay but I promise you we will find you one day andwe will hurt the ones close to you. Look into their eyes and smiling faces and remember it was your unethical irresponsible behaviour and kleptotardness that made them suffer. Little by little we are getting more information about you. We are everywhere and we are indeed plotting. We will hurt you directly and through them.

Please don't commit suicide before we get to you, We want you to enjoy the show, Your next couple of years will be very interesting. I will be very generous to offer you this advice, Get bodyguards and guns, you WILL need them.

Have a shitty day.

You want to harm someone's friends because of something he may or may not have done, let alone harm another individual?  Get the fuck off this planet you shitty little mini-Hitler. 

I can assure you he is not in the may or may not have done it area anymore, I am also very angry and my methods will not be understood by you.

You knew the risks of investing on an unsecured market with uninsured funds, and you defend your death threats?

Credibility has fallen to 0 with you.

[Sledge]

lophie

Have you ever watched Star Wars? You're behaving and thinking like someone consumed. Don't make me say who. Let go of your hate. Ukyo is still here, working on it, and has returned 1/15th of the funds. It could have been worse: he's nowhere to be found, had not returned anything, had not went to Cyprus to seek help from Cryptocyprus, had not been on dev chats to ask questions and seek more help, and not posting here anymore. Buying time in this way doesn't make any sense.

Of course something is wrong. Of course it looks shady. Perhaps he is between a rock and a hard place.

But to threaten another person with a death threat, plus others related to him, that's screwing up big time. I know you believe Ukyo is evil. Even if true, to allow yourself to do the same is... well, you'd be no better. Either you are pretending, or you are seriously letting yourself go overboard. What good will it do to hurt others, their family, yourself... no good at all.

Why can't you open yourself to the possibility that Ukyo will actually try (depending on how you see it): A) Fix his mistake B) Fix the problems and return the money C) Work out a solution D) Redeem himself or some other positive outcome. A threat like you made is just not going to help.

Plus, you really aren't thinking clearly, because on top of hurting yourself and others, you'll totally screw everyone else here by removing any last chance we have for Ukyo to fix this. Someone else in these forums might just decide to do the same thing to your friends/family or even kill themselves because of your drastic actions. What a great cycle you'll start.

Could you change your tune? How depressing.

[AccountManagement]

lophie

Have you ever watched Star Wars? You're behaving and thinking like someone consumed. Don't make me say who. Let go of your hate. Ukyo is still here, working on it, and has returned 1/15th of the funds. It could have been worse...

It could have been up to 6% worse.

[Sledge]

It could have been up to 6% worse.

Nice try. Completely ignore the work put into making a claims portal, the trip to Cyprus, the chats, the posts here.

Oh, ignore, what a great feature actually.

[Sledge]

"which leaves illegal action as the only recourse for those who don't enjoy being punked as much as you do."

Utter, utter garbage. There is no justification for taking illegal action. You sound like the thieves that say "Well, music is too expensive, or I can't afford it, or the RIAA are thieves themselves, so I have no recourse but to steal the music.". You can simply not steal it and move on. Especially in this situation.

The people here advocating illegal action have absolutely no clue about the golden rule. None at all. Go ahead, ruin everything even more. Congratu-****ing-lations.

[AccountManagement]

"which leaves illegal action as the only recourse for those who don't enjoy being punked as much as you do."

Utter, utter garbage. There is no justification for taking illegal action. You sound like the thieves that say "Well, music is too expensive, or I can't afford it, or the RIAA are thieves themselves, so I have no recourse but to steal the music.". You can simply not steal it and move on. Especially in this situation.

The people here advocating illegal action have absolutely no clue about the golden rule. None at all. Go ahead, ruin everything even more. Congratu-****ing-lations.

I did not set out to advocate illegal actions.
I stated that things could be 6% worse.  That's a fact, not advice.
I further stated that with legal options off the table, the only thing that remains is accepting defeat or breaking the law.  This is also neither endorsement nor advice, simply logic.
I don't care if you steal music, your golden rule or your take on Star Wars - I buy and sell trust, I can not afford questionable ethics.

[jimmothy]

Remember kids; next time you want to steal 5 million usd or more just follow these east steps:

- Create a bitcoin service (use a template for ultimate ease like bitfunder)
- Take your customers funds.

- When they ask for them back you reply "for legal reasons you cant have them or know why they are gone but we are totally working on it"

- Buy vacation house in south america and change name.
- Live happily retired.

[Ukyo]

At this point, things can not be any more than 6% worse.  94% of the money is gone.
You were told that NeoBee is helping to resolve this "problem."  The statement was later recanted by Danny, who now claims it's his personal hobby project.
You were told that your questions will be answered in 3 days 5 days "sorry bro, wish I could tell you but no."
Jon threatened to throw WeEx into bankruptcy to stop people from litigating for their money.
Jon has made a strong case for legal action being ineffective, which leaves illegal action as the only recourse for those who don't enjoy being punked as much as you do.

Just to be clear. I am not threatening to "throw" weexchange into bankruptcy.
As I have stated many times, I wish to avoid this as well so that things can be corrected.
What I stated is how "others" can _force it into bankruptcy_ with a checkmate leaving it no choice.
Currently there is a choice, and there is no requirement to do this at this time.

-Ukyo

[SebastianJu]

Normally, a judge would rule that there are no funds to disperse to creditors (WeExchange users) and close the company. As for the funds
that are not available, how a judge would proceed is questionable regarding this. It could leave the company stuck in a bankruptcy mode
for a number of years leaving the company without the ability to do anything including payment distributions. Needless to say, the judge
will not have the ability to "make funds available" and would have information showing I did not use/spend/do anything illegal with the funds.

The current status leaves us in control of the corporation and the creditors to use whatever means possible to distribute payments to users.
This will remain the case as long as users allow it. In the end, I am trying to make this all work out for everyone and not get stuck in a situation
where a court takes over and either leaves everything stuck in limbo for who knows how long with us unable to do anything for users or a judge
simply declaring the corporation bankrupt and notifying creditors that the corporation has been forced to close.

You simply cannot squeeze blood from a turnip.

So no income but how will it be solved? There are people in debt for weexchange? And i dont speak about shares you might be able to sell.

But i think youre wrong in one point. You think if weexchange is closed youre out. I dont think so. Its not a normal business. Its a business storing money. Nothing should have happened to the money since you werent allowed to move it somewhere. There is no business risk involved that could lead to a bankruptcy. So the only explaination that the bitcoins are gone is something illegal. Eithers its you that did something illegal or someone other stole it. Either way... if weexchange is bankrupt doesnt mean the thieve doesnt need to pay back then. The same goes for the funds that have to be paid back to the owners.
If its a database error... why was there no backup? I cant imagine you really missed that point. But if you did and thats the problem then its not that you can blame it on the company. If it were that easy everyone would create a company and "get a backup fault".
Next thing is... you knew long time that payouts dont work and you did nothing. I probably wouldnt have uploaded my many bitcoins to weexchange if there was a warning about the problems.
All these arent things that a company can shield from. People try that of course but there are limits when it comes to personal fault. And i dont speak about companies where the owner is liable by law anyway.

Saying that... of course... if you really have to work the bitcoins back to us it will take a very long time. Thats why i want to know if there is a chance to get the missing bitcoins back without you having to work them back. How big is that chance?

[Kosmatos]

As I have stated many times, I wish to avoid this as well so that things can be corrected.

Any progress at all on the WeExchange "stuck coins" or "coins not available" problem that's preventing everyone from getting their bitcoins back?

[JaredR26]

At this point, things can not be any more than 6% worse.  94% of the money is gone.
You were told that NeoBee is helping to resolve this "problem."  The statement was later recanted by Danny, who now claims it's his personal hobby project.
You were told that your questions will be answered in 3 days 5 days "sorry bro, wish I could tell you but no."
Jon threatened to throw WeEx into bankruptcy to stop people from litigating for their money.
Jon has made a strong case for legal action being ineffective, which leaves illegal action as the only recourse for those who don't enjoy being punked as much as you do.

Just to be clear. I am not threatening to "throw" weexchange into bankruptcy.
As I have stated many times, I wish to avoid this as well so that things can be corrected.
What I stated is how "others" can _force it into bankruptcy_ with a checkmate leaving it no choice.
Currently there is a choice, and there is no requirement to do this at this time.

-Ukyo

Ukyo, does this loss of 94% of the coins relate to theft that is (hopefully) being sorted out by authorities, does it relate to confiscation from some authorities, or does it relate to something else?

[ldrgn]

It's possible that the coins are held up in a court order/gag order but it is in no way probable.  Remember that Ukyo's

• traveled outside the country
• distributed some of the money back to users
• been pretty active on the forums asking people not to act

Ukyo would be forbidden to do all of these (or at least told to sit tight by a lawyer) if he was involved with or under some kind of investigation.  There's no way in hell Ukyo could have done any of those three if he was under the national security letter gag order.

Instead, we've got a guy who has an incredible thirst for capital:

• owns a profitable securities exchange
• owns a profitable payment processor
• still needs to finance himself by issuing personal debt

Why does Ukyo need so much capital?  The probable answer is that he's pissing it away on gambling or bad investments.