Tau-Chain and Agoras Official Thread: Generalized P2P Network

[Hueristic]

OK, as you say "All this better happen pretty fast" well nothing can happen fast on a decentralized system in comparison to say a soc.

everything i speak about at this scope is local. to run the programming language on a single machine. the logic should happen fast as the runtime may grow exponentially with the length of the code, so we want to push the limits to the max.

So I see no way this can run a modern OS faster than a watch could (actually I'm sure it could not).

a tau based os won't be faster just for the reason it's using our compiler. but once one is able to reason over the code, in a consistently decidable manner, the picture changes. you can get an apriori proof of correctness, security etc all up to formal definitions. you can also reason about performance issues.

You state it is equivalent to idris/coq/agda and they are languages so what you are saying is this will be communicated to by code so I do not see how it can run an OS to begin with, it sounds like it will be a system that can be sent jobs in a que type system, correct? There is nothing wrong with that and it is a sound plan but I cannot equate this model being able to run a precompiled OS. Maybe my understanding of what you are saying is off?

like idris/coq/agda only from logical aspect. they don't have a jit compiler architecture, for example. on tau we try to take the logic as closer to the bare metals.

that all aside the blockchain and dht parts. which of course can be referred from inside the language too.

OK, so just to clarify. As I understand it this system will be able to compute (in a virtualized manner) a OS (probably with a wrapper I would assume that gets compiled on the fly : not sure everything has to be though) but the tradoffs will force such lag that in a real world application there is no way you could use this system as even a desktop? I do understand that for specifically written large scale computations this would be a very viable alternative to a supercomputer. I am trying to nail you down On one thing and I have mentioned that in every post.

Will this be able to run a Linux or M$ OS at an acceptable rate to say write an office Document? I would think it will tkae an hour to move a mouse across the screen even if you don't get kernel exceptions everywhere.

[ohad]

OK, as you say "All this better happen pretty fast" well nothing can happen fast on a decentralized system in comparison to say a soc.

everything i speak about at this scope is local. to run the programming language on a single machine. the logic should happen fast as the runtime may grow exponentially with the length of the code, so we want to push the limits to the max.

So I see no way this can run a modern OS faster than a watch could (actually I'm sure it could not).

a tau based os won't be faster just for the reason it's using our compiler. but once one is able to reason over the code, in a consistently decidable manner, the picture changes. you can get an apriori proof of correctness, security etc all up to formal definitions. you can also reason about performance issues.

You state it is equivalent to idris/coq/agda and they are languages so what you are saying is this will be communicated to by code so I do not see how it can run an OS to begin with, it sounds like it will be a system that can be sent jobs in a que type system, correct? There is nothing wrong with that and it is a sound plan but I cannot equate this model being able to run a precompiled OS. Maybe my understanding of what you are saying is off?

like idris/coq/agda only from logical aspect. they don't have a jit compiler architecture, for example. on tau we try to take the logic as closer to the bare metals.

that all aside the blockchain and dht parts. which of course can be referred from inside the language too.

OK, so just to clarify. As I understand it this system will be able to compute (in a virtualized manner) a OS (probably with a wrapper I would assume that gets compiled on the fly : not sure everything has to be though) but the tradoffs will force such lag that in a real world application there is no way you could use this system as even a desktop? I do understand that for specifically written large scale computations this would be a very viable alternative to a supercomputer. I am trying to nail you down On one thing and I have mentioned that in every post.

Will this be able to run a Linux or M$ OS at an acceptable rate to say write an office Document? I would think it will tkae an hour to move a mouse across the screen even if you don't get kernel exceptions everywhere.

still very soon to tell to which extent tau will be used to write an os. tau is only a programming language. complex things like os will take relatively significant time until people will begin to design it to the details.
for now we know that the more we push forward the quality of the product, the more areas it'll be able to cover. i hope it'll reach os too.
that all said,
tau has no problem calling native code (eg dll).
also it can always be used as a component as is written in c/c++ so can always be used from other programs.

[Hueristic]

OK, as you say "All this better happen pretty fast" well nothing can happen fast on a decentralized system in comparison to say a soc.

everything i speak about at this scope is local. to run the programming language on a single machine. the logic should happen fast as the runtime may grow exponentially with the length of the code, so we want to push the limits to the max.

So I see no way this can run a modern OS faster than a watch could (actually I'm sure it could not).

a tau based os won't be faster just for the reason it's using our compiler. but once one is able to reason over the code, in a consistently decidable manner, the picture changes. you can get an apriori proof of correctness, security etc all up to formal definitions. you can also reason about performance issues.

You state it is equivalent to idris/coq/agda and they are languages so what you are saying is this will be communicated to by code so I do not see how it can run an OS to begin with, it sounds like it will be a system that can be sent jobs in a que type system, correct? There is nothing wrong with that and it is a sound plan but I cannot equate this model being able to run a precompiled OS. Maybe my understanding of what you are saying is off?

like idris/coq/agda only from logical aspect. they don't have a jit compiler architecture, for example. on tau we try to take the logic as closer to the bare metals.

that all aside the blockchain and dht parts. which of course can be referred from inside the language too.

OK, so just to clarify. As I understand it this system will be able to compute (in a virtualized manner) a OS (probably with a wrapper I would assume that gets compiled on the fly : not sure everything has to be though) but the tradoffs will force such lag that in a real world application there is no way you could use this system as even a desktop? I do understand that for specifically written large scale computations this would be a very viable alternative to a supercomputer. I am trying to nail you down On one thing and I have mentioned that in every post.

Will this be able to run a Linux or M$ OS at an acceptable rate to say write an office Document? I would think it will tkae an hour to move a mouse across the screen even if you don't get kernel exceptions everywhere.

still very soon to tell to which extent tau will be used to write an os. tau is only a programming language. complex things like os will take relatively significant time until people will begin to design it to the details.
for now we know that the more we push forward the quality of the product, the more areas it'll be able to cover. i hope it'll reach os too.
that all said,
tau has no problem calling native code (eg dll).
also it can always be used as a component as is written in c/c++ so can always be used from other programs.

Am I correct in assuming the network backbone will equate to a system bus?

[ohad]

Am I correct in assuming the network backbone will equate to a system bus?

in the sense of being self defining, namely, everyone run the root code.
but the main usage is not to use only the root but to use networks and application over tau. which can define any (collaborative) behavior they want.

[Hueristic]

Am I correct in assuming the network backbone will equate to a system bus?

in the sense of being self defining, namely, everyone run the root code.
but the main usage is not to use only the root but to use networks and application over tau. which can define any (collaborative) behavior they want.

IC, Gl. Looking forward to release.

[maco144]

What do you guys think of http://www.tezos.com?

Is it comparable to Tau-Chain and Agoras? Once released, will Tau-Chain and Tezos compete, complement each other or neither?

Thanks. Keep up the good work. I really appreciate and admire the work you all do.

So, this is the same project as Tau?

[ohad]

What do you guys think of http://www.tezos.com?

Is it comparable to Tau-Chain and Agoras? Once released, will Tau-Chain and Tezos compete, complement each other or neither?

Thanks. Keep up the good work. I really appreciate and admire the work you all do.

So, this is the same project as Tau?

not at all. tau isn't a smart contract language. it's a general purpose language, including being a programming language, contracts, information, know-hows, processes, math, everything.
tauchain is a shared collaborative network to store them all, not only store, but also understand. tau is able to reason over information given in its language.

[kjn311]

Can I run Tau on Ethereum?

I believe the answer is yes. Why not just start off in that direction and give this project more exposure?

[ohad]

Can I run Tau on Ethereum?

I believe the answer is yes. Why not just start off in that direction and give this project more exposure?

because.. eth is an inherently unsafe and low-capacity platform.

[ICOcountdown.com]

Can I run Tau on Ethereum?

I believe the answer is yes. Why not just start off in that direction and give this project more exposure?

Tau is the opposite realm of Ethereum, this is why I keep calling it a "hedge". Tau isn't turing complete it uses decidable language instead of undecidable language.

[Foerster]

ETH could easily become a sidechain of TAU and still be able to do 99,99% of the stuff it can do now, while Tau and Agoras would be very limited by running on ETH.

[redhero]

May the DAO support Tua project through investing in it?

[Sam123]

What do you guys think of http://www.tezos.com?

Is it comparable to Tau-Chain and Agoras? Once released, will Tau-Chain and Tezos compete, complement each other or neither?

Thanks. Keep up the good work. I really appreciate and admire the work you all do.

So, this is the same project as Tau?

FYI:
Arthur will be Demo of the Tezos alpha in Silicon Valley (CA)
https://secure.meetup.com/register/?ctx=ref

[ICOcountdown.com]

May the DAO support Tua project through investing in it?

The DAO can support Tau yes, whether it's in its best interest or not is questionable however.

[bitfish]

May the DAO support Tua project through investing in it?

I doubt that DAO investors would be willing to invest in a project which might weaken Ethereum. 

[ohad]

May the DAO support Tua project through investing in it?

I doubt that DAO investors would be willing to invest in a project which might weaken Ethereum.  

Ethereum didn't even give us a bounty for finding a very serious security bug in their client (HMC found it and asked to donate the bounty to the project). In contrast to their public bounty program. That specific bug was already fixed btw.

[ICOcountdown.com]

May the DAO support Tua project through investing in it?

I doubt that DAO investors would be willing to invest in a project which might weaken Ethereum.  

Ethereum didn't even give us a bounty for finding a very serious security bug in their client (HMC found it and asked to donate the bounty to the project). In contrast to their public bounty program. That specific bug was already fixed btw.

I am sure a DAO can be synthesized on Tau Chain too, since you can program whatever you like on the platform.

[Sam123]

May the DAO support Tua project through investing in it?

I doubt that DAO investors would be willing to invest in a project which might weaken Ethereum.  

Ethereum didn't even give us a bounty for finding a very serious security bug in their client (HMC found it and asked to donate the bounty to the project). In contrast to their public bounty program. That specific bug was already fixed btw.

I am sure a DAO can be synthesized on Tau Chain too, since you can program whatever you like on the platform.

I believe so, but when: in few months, one year, or more

[lexxus]

Will tau chain decouple mining/forging process from theorem proving?  i.e. there will be miners/forgers, provers and, obviously, those who can do both simultaneously. This should be pretty easy to achieve (e.g. by commiting a hash of a proof and then revealing the proof) and will allow concurrent "execution" of contracts.

[ICOcountdown.com]

May the DAO support Tua project through investing in it?

I doubt that DAO investors would be willing to invest in a project which might weaken Ethereum.  

Ethereum didn't even give us a bounty for finding a very serious security bug in their client (HMC found it and asked to donate the bounty to the project). In contrast to their public bounty program. That specific bug was already fixed btw.

I am sure a DAO can be synthesized on Tau Chain too, since you can program whatever you like on the platform.

I believe so, but when: in few months, one year, or more

You can program whatever you want on the platform, so once it is released this option is available to you. In a number of syntaxes. I believe in a couple of months it will be released.