It seems as though you answered your own question while asking it.


I doubt that any alt-coin that has recently skyrocketed (or is experiencing a pump) will remain exactly where it is; however it is definitely too early for me to say definitively that it will or will not remain in the top 3. I think we have many years to go before the giant alt-coins start solidifying their space as #2, #3 etc. There is too much room to grow and certain coins will unfortunately fall victim to the Darwin effect and become too useless or irrelevant to maintain.  There may even come a point where one of these alt-coins temporarily hits the #1 spot, before bitcoin adjusts it's path accordingly as it always does.

I would not hold your breath or expect any particular alt-coin to hold it's position long-term until there is a clear meta developed that sweeps the cryptocurrency community as standard. As long as these questions can be asked and reasonably discussed, there are changes that these markets will undergo.

There are competing interests and ideas about what the future of cryptocurrency should look like and this is happening simultaneously to the debate about whether or not cryptocurrency is our future; these two conversations being had very loudly, publicly and with a lot of money, time and energy invested means the alts and even bitcoin itself are subject to massive volatility (which I'm sure you already know) and extraordinary outcomes. We are in new territory and we cannot pretend that it is familiar.

You pose this question as if Bitcoin is not already the "best" way to invest, especially when juxtaposed with the stock-market. I feel confident saying that bitcoin has already proven itself to be a better investment than anything that's been mentioned in this thread, or publicly recognized. Compare the % increase in price, or your "would-be" holdings of bitcoin if you would've decided to invest your stock-market money sooner. You will find yourself astonished, appalled, belittled, anxious and frantic at the idea of what could have been, if all you did was realize bitcoin is and has been the best investment to make since it's inception.

Maybe you are simply interested in the discussion, but to me this case is closed and bitcoin is just superior to invest in when compared to anything long-term or recognizable.

The only difficulty I see with investing into bitcoin is lacking the technical "know-how" to manage/handle your bitcoins safely and securely. Bitcoin is not easily understood or accessible to people that have no idea what they're doing (though this is becoming more and more common with the big-box exchanges); the stock market welcomes any and all idiots to throw money at it and feel "safe" and feigning as if everyone is affected by the crashes, neglecting the fact that certain people cause these crashes..

The decentralization alone makes your investment in bitcoin astronomically more secure, because a couple rich old-farts aren't calling the shots. It cannot be contained, it spans internationally and it is out of grasp for the kind of manipulation we see routinely on the stock-market.

I've dabbled in each, and have always been disappointed by Forex and Stock Exchanges, where as bitcoin remains consistently bullish.

I must not have seen this (we all make mistakes), but it seemed to answer a few of my questions, not in a good way.


Now i'm really taken for a trip... So you ARE buying trees, to grow for timber to sell to protect the environments of animals, instead of simply growing trees/plants which are actually assistance towards their environments? It seems like many extra steps, years, and middle-men before the benefit gets anywhere near the animals. By this logic, the animals will not receive any benefit from donations today for 20-years, when you plan to sell the teak; by this time these animals could be gone completely, what will be done with the money then?

How is this an efficient use my funds with the goal being to preserve animal life?
Correct me if I am wrong, there is no direct benefit to the animals until the teak lumber is sold, 20-years from your "investment".

This sounds like a gamble, on the price of trees, under the guise of animal altruism and environmental preservation, which will take 20-years and requires trust in a company without any background, history or even a salient business plan..

Also, the only benefit to the animals will be "to increment out cameras to monitories the area", is that right?



Your website was hacked last year, (2016?) , it has all of your important information regarding your business model, investment opportunities and the nuances of your operation, yet it has remained down this entire time? Have the hackers stolen the web-design out of your brain, or why has there been no replacement website during the downtime?


It sounds more like you are trying to run an agricultural business, not a wildlife preserve so I am confused why you framed it as such in the beginning. You are also straying from the original Teak idea into all sorts of other things, while avoiding some very direct concerns about the allocation of these funds or exploring how feasible this idea is for such a long-term investment.


This reminds me of Cloud-Mining, but for Teak trees, and I don't see anything worthwhile being presented to actually take you seriously thus far. Obviously this is just my opinion, but you're going to need to be more detailed, precise, and take your business as seriously as you're expecting others to. It feels like an exit-scam, or an entry-scam, either way I don't see any track record of payments, so how is there any guarantee of payments other than "teak trees are real"?

BitDice seems to be holding up pretty well over the years, constantly transforming their platform to be smooth, innovative, secure and fair. I just recently hopped into their signature campaign, which is one of the longest running campaigns here on Bitcointalk. I've been on and off using their site since the earlier days, and the changes that the platform has undergone keeps it relevant even after thousands of casino's and exchanges have closed their URLs. Every new competitor just gives BitDice more incentive for them to polish their game and bring something even better to the table.

BitDice keeps up with all the trends, changes and necessary security to keep itself operating without hiccup. I'm proud to represent you guys, and i honestly enjoy wasting a few hours rolling the dice; you've made a bland, played-out Dice game fun again!


The ICO for CSNO took off really well, and it will change the game, yet again! *Slow building Clap*, continue to stay ahead of the curve and you'll continue to dominate.

I don't think Ethereum, ripple or any other alt-coin will take over the market cap of Bitcoin, or Volume (USD) traded because these things do not compare to bitcoin in terms of security or recognition. If an alt-coins market cap does end up surpassing Bitcoin, I would theorize this would be the "bubble" everyone likes to pretend Bitcoin is, and the artificial market cap will be shaved off in no time. I only think ETH or Ripple can be artificially "more valuable" if it ever even comes close.

These secondary coins are only thought of or bought at all because of what bitcoin has become and what others know about bitcoin; none of these other coins stand on their own two-feet in the long-term. Bitcoin will keep its seat until it is not applicable, irrelevant or refuses to develop solutions to certain problems.

I don't think that any coin created in bitcoins image, as a copy, except slightly different (normally these differences centralize distribution, development, or allow for other flaws/faults that are not possible with bitcoin); they lack the foundational principals that have made Bitcoin the integral giant it has become in our world of modern finance.

I've gotta tell you, I am finding this thread hilarious; I'm not sure if there is miscommunication happening, or if you are simply using strange logic to explain yourself. To me, this argument could be used for anything...

Please note that one water bottle cost $1 usd and after 20 years you will earn $25.

It is 100% secure because water bottle are real! This is not an argument, and this is not rational thinking
We need an explanation; how are you going to turn a profit, while protecting these animals, trees and paying multiple salaries?

If you are need of money now, why will you not be in need of money 20-years from now? What are you doing to make the money turn into enough money to cover your expenses and promises?


I'm pretty sure whatever the explanation is for their business model, it is not cutting down the teak trees they are preserving for the processed wood they could sell. I doubt the price of teak wood will have much of an impact on the price of saplings, or preserving teak trees (unless they become a highly sought after luxury, in which case you'd need more money for security).

I'm very amused, and interested to hear further explanation of this project; usually things like this are simply asking for donation and have "proof-of-work", to show the donations are being used for a good cause, however you seem to be mixing a Charitable organization with a Security/Index fund of some kind.

How are you transforming altruism, in this manner, into a profitable endeavor?
Can you provide proof of your good deeds, protecting those which you claim this will?

I'm not convinced one way or another, whether or not this project is for real, but I am interested in hearing you explain this further and hopefully prove that this is a worthwhile project.

This question honestly hits home pretty hard for me, because this is something that I think about daily and honestly am unsure whether or not i regret my flippant bitcoin usage. I used to have 100's of coins when they were almost worthless and as they became more and more valuable I would use them more frequently for increasingly "regular" purchases and bills. For 2016 I paid my rent all year in bitcoin by selling it on an exchange, while I went through a really tough time financially. 

I always admired the HODLers, because they were able to pull-off something I was unable to. I've used my bitcoins to buy myself dinner, to pay for rent and other bills, I've used it to buy steam games.. I've even wasted some bitcoin on gambling and binary options.

I've been using my bitcoin as a regular currency since I have had the capability to do so, and it has made it so my bitcoin stash is incredibly depleted. I'd say most bitcoin users from the beginning are HODLers though, and i'd expect a very large (silent) percentage of users around here to be those people. A lot of them keep these things quiet though, security reasons; you'd hate to hang onto coins for 5+ years and then have a hacker swipe them away because of a stupid forum post you made.

In my experience most members around here use a different address for almost every payment they receive. Obviously there are going to be outliers, but I've always heard that it is good practice to not repeat addresses if possible. Everyone for the most part keeps track of their old addresses, stake them on here for long-term proof of account ownership salience and makes sure they don't fall in the wrong hands.

Using only 1 address long-term erases too much security, and as you said it makes it possible to pinpoint the amount of coin one has, turning eyes and inviting attacks/hacks if you have a significant amount. This would allow a very targeted attack of your bitcoins, your address and it could demolish your financial holdings altogether.

If you're relying on bitcoin, definitely look into the best security practices; IMO 1-address just simply won't cut it.



^ Perfect example, most legendary, old-heads, OGs they have similar mindsets to this and even have further criteria before dealing with a merchant/trader such as PGP verification and the-like.

As far as I'm aware this is the most current statement from them regarding any payment structure in this campaign; I am a new enrollment or I would have more information for you... I'm about 115% sure they are not paying the rates in OP :

Full Members - 0.03 BTC per week
Senior Members - 0.035 BTC per week
Hero & Legendary Members - 0.045BTC  per week

This would be absurd, but I guess your confusion is well warranted, crazier things happen everyday. In amendment to my last post, Box, you probably should probably update OP with the current pay-rates as well as the aforementioned deadline information. I'm pretty sure there is dynamic BTC Pricers (I don't know what they're called), TheButterZone uses them for his posts all the time, this might be really helpful if you don't have a lot of time to update OP with pay-rates.

I'll check the payment address of someone from the campaign a little later to confirm this is the case; Check what they received from the campaign.

Posts are counted each Wednesday at 4 PM forum time (more specifically it's 6 PM Finland time which is currently GMT+2). This is the information as far as I'm concerned, hope this helps. Trying to save Box a little leg-work, since he just answered the same question for me earlier and I'm sure he gets asked all the time the same question.

If I could make a suggest, Box, throw the time you do post-counts in OP! It'll probably save you a few PMs (though I'm sure you'll still get asked the same question occasionally even if you Bold it in Big Letters and put it at the top of OP; but at least they can't say you didn't try!

I will do some research myself, because I was wondering about XEM and ETH; Are you able to give me the bullet points on what makes the XEM less promising in the long-term (or even short-term)? I never knew Hitbtc was a real site, I always get email spam from them and thought it best to avoid them. I'll take a look now, you don't think DimCoin will last or increase in value then?


What specifically about their road-map discouraged you BTW? Was it the planned release in certain countries, or something along those lines? Limited distribution, or did something else stick out?


Still taking offers here, obviously, but will be considering dumping it on HitBTC if no takers.

LBC isn't on any exchange as far as I can tell, unless I just am being clueless. Which exchange is that coin traded on? I'm not interested in more coins that I cannot liquidate or use inn any meaningful way

If you are using Paxful, just purchase BTC and trade me the BTC, there's no need to have multiple platforms and middlemen. Paxful is only for Buying/Selling bitcoin from what I know, so just give me the coin, not the Paxful. Plus "I ask my friend and give you info", What friend? What info? I have no clue what you're talking about and you're not even following the criteria i laid out in OP.

Hey everyone, I have some Dimcoin I'm looking to unload; I participated in their signature campaign and I've hit a rough patch in my life so I need a few extra dollars to make everything run smoothly again.

I have 1,000 Dimcoin and I am interested in trading it for Bitcoin, Ethereum, popular Alt-coins (coins on exchange). I'll even take Paypal or Skrill from trusted members with a good track record. I'd prefer to use an escrow, but again if you're trusted enough I wouldn't mind just sending first outright.



Shoot me your offers, i'll sell it all at once, or partial pieces. It has went from $0.03 up to $0.30 in about 1-day; Has good potential, I just need money. Please respond within this thread.

Username: bill gator
Rank: Hero
Current number of posts: 548
Bitcoin Address: 17GFts7gLPthfVbKs2iGUuWYtsEKeNgLuh


Noticed you said you are looking for a Hero member  
Also, your avatar link in OP is 404'ing (https://www.bitdice.me/a/avatar.jpg)

I appreciate the consideration; I'll be watching this thread and remove my signature/avatar if I am not accepted.

While I think your head is in the right place i think you are being misled by coincidence right now. There are patterns to be found, but Bitcoin and any given alt-coin do not have any inverse correlation in terms of their price. Occasionally their are circumstances which cause people to exchange their BTC for an alt because of network congestion, price pumps and dumps, and other factors, but this will not always be the case.

I have seen both rise simultaneously, because they are both cryptocurrencies, yet they are different in whatever ways depending upon the alt-coin. This means that for any given reason that bitcoin may go up, the alt-coin may share this reason, it may exaggerate this reason, or this reason may be nullified. This works in reverses as well, Bitcoin may refuse to develop a solution, or fix a problem that an alt-coin addresses either temporarily or permanently and this will cause Bitcoin to fall while an alt-coin rises.

The criteria and scenarios are too varied to say something as simple as "When one goes up, the other goes down", plus even if this were the case you wouldn't be able to take advantage of this information because as one goes up the other is going down; you could not get a jump on the trend/correlation if they are truly tied to one another in this way.

You should look at them independently unless you believe that cryptocurrencies as a whole will benefit or detriment from whatever event, news or mass-adoption. Bitcoin develops independently from the rest of these alt-coins, is invested, exchanged, transacted, etc. independently from all of the others, so I'd say their biggest correlation is when something is temporarily driving users from one to another, transaction fess or the other things I haven't mentioned.

I'm no expert by any means, but I have quite a few years of trading experience, if you have more questions fire away; i'll be checking gin on this thread if you need me, or feel free to shoot me a PM; we can bounce ideas and try to find new patterns together. i'll tell you why i think you're right or wrong, and I very well could be right or wrong myself.

Others seem so unsure of the capabilities of bitcoin it is disheartening in a way. Of course bitcoin has the possibility to make physical money disappear, however there are many technological barriers that need to be broken in order for every single person currently using physical money to be able to use our beloved coins. At a point in history I'm sure someone had a similar question about gold, or ledgers for that matter; "Do you think Paper money can make gold disappear?"

Ask yourself when the last time you saw people bartering and trading with gold? Knowing this was the standard method of trade worldwide at one point or another and knowing it was replaced should help you answer this question yourself; Paper money, even physical money is not eternal, it is not a law of nature. It is something we use to represent value and most of us agree to just use it, this can change at the drop of a hat the second too many people lose faith in a government, or many, many other factors.

I believe Cryptocurrencies can make physical money disappear once everyone has access to crypotocurrencies for starters, and I sure hope that bitcoin can continue to develop in such a way tat keeps it on top; I would hate to see any other coin be the crypto to do what you're suggesting.

It sounds as though you're saying bitcoin cannot be a viable currency because it too regularly increases in price by too much. How do you think new currencies and markets find their value or cap? They have to go through the process of being the "new kid on the blockchain" and get their footing through adoption and usage. The price cannot be stabilized until the "consumer"/user base is stabilized; currently the user base and popularity for bitcoin are constantly growing so the price mimics this while occasionally checking support levels with a small price dip to make sure the floor won't fall out from under us.

Bitcoin is going to continue to be volatile until it has been accepted as a currency, not the other way around in my opinion. Although, the volatility will continue to be one-sided until it has been refuted as a currency and I do not see that happening within our lifetime.


Tangent - When you're literally copying and pasting an article it would be helpful to at least cite the article so another member doesn't have to track it down for us. Everyone who wants to respond to the thread would love to read through the article themselves, know where the information is coming from and be able to judge the source material without you being a middle-man. It is just a little distasteful in my opinion, but I won't give you too much hate for it. It makes me wonder, do you have any thoughts on the article yourself? If you're going to start a discussion it is generally helpful to have something to contribute to the conversation, or a stance on the topic.

I definitely don't think future trading for bitcoin could be detrimental to the price of it. I could, of course, be monumentally incorrect, but it seems like the only outcomes that future trading should realistically have on the bitcoin market is either increased demand for bitcoin, or stagnation in the demand for bitcoin. I do not realistically see how future trading for bitcoin could actually hurt the price unless they pump up the transaction fees so high for so long that it drowns out everyone except a whale-trader; even that seems unlikely though, because future trading doesn't necessarily directly affect the blockchain or propagate transactions.

Future trading will most likely bring new attention to bitcoin, and anyone that gets their eyes on bitcoin gets drawn in like the rest of us did like a fly to a bright light. I doubt these future traders will see bitcoins consistently skyrocketing price and think to themselves "I don't need any of that.", they will become enthused and they'll want to partake as well, thus increasing the demand while the supply is tighter than ever.

If anyone could explain how it could even potentially lower the price I would appreciate you humoring me..

You've raised some solid supply and demand statistics that look good for any HODLers and will excite any Keynesian; but as far as your question goes, I think the question is "impractical"

The price of bitcoin is constantly moving and for the past however many years it has gone nowhere except upwards and this tells me that the price of bitcoin is indeed not practical, but not in the way you may think. I think the price of bitcoin is impractically low, because I've done some "highly reliable" rag-tag math that would suggest bitcoin could practically reach $365,000 per coin, without being "overvalued". I believe that people will begin buying, selling, trading and worrying about Satoshis a lot more frequently in the future; of course the network will need to be tweaked to realistically have transaction with Satoshi dust, but I do believe that is the direction we're heading in.

I would just expect bitcoins price to continue on it's hard upward trend until it breaks beyond the aforementioned "practical" value of a coin. Obviously we'll have dips and divets along the way, but i'm talking long-term, yearly, sustainable growth.

It's hilarious to think about the amount of times that people found an old address with a few 100-coins that used to be pennies a piece and then realizing that bitcoin is worth thousands of dollars a piece. It gives me greet joy to just picture all of the unsuspecting, overnight millionaires that bitcoin has picked like flowers around the world; whoever put it's faith in bitcoin has been rewarded handsomely, either monetarily or through the gratification of being correct about bitcoins success. Now, it seems that one of these outcomes is blatantly a better outcome, but not everyone can wake up a millionaire randomly so you've gotta choose your battles and take your speculation as a good lesson, do not miss the train when you're the one that sees it coming from a mile away.

The question becomes what is Bulgaria going to do with these coins? Do they plan to liquidate these coins and pay off some of their debt, invest in some infrastructure or something else that may benefit their people, country and overall situation? I think it may be smart for them to just hang onto their coins for now, you woke up with a money-tree, there is no reason to bonsai the tree, or to cut it short. This was a surprise to them and they should treat it with care, not like some careless lottery winner that wants to experience the finer things. Does anyone know if other governments hold a significant amount of coin, either through direct investment or through seizure of assets? These will probably be the governments that experience a really big jolt inn their economy in the coming years; before we know it we'll have every country running their own alt-coins because they all think it's just the next Fiat for them to control, print, tax, tariff, manipulate, distribute, legislate.