IMO any company that took money for products they reasonably should have known would not be delivered in time to be profitable, while at the same time lying about their ability to deliver should be labeled as scams. That includes HF and BFL.
+1 I agree with that. At this point it is clear that BFL is not just incompetent in getting a 28nm to market it really is fraud. Given the way the three card monty the orders from Jala's to Monarch to Cloud hashing. You can't really believe it takes 30 to 45 days to get a refund does it? This is counter to FTC regulation and they are breaking the law plain and simple. It is a scam. Now for HF the long trail of changing ToS and NDA type refunds is a huge warning to everyone not to do business with them. I might add that Dogie is championing Avalon as a renewed trustworthy supplier but we still have not been given any explanations of what really went on and how they have changed significantly so that we are given proper updates as customers. Until that is cleared up I wouldn't recommend buying anything from Avalon they have to earn that trust back and I am willing to listen to Avalon as it moves forward without Yifu but what has changed on the customer relations end is really important. Are they going to communicate with the community when people put in tickets this time? What has changed? Nothing I have seen in the forums indicates that they have a new way of dealing with complaints. They might need a CRM team who speak English I think and are in communication with Avalon daily otherwise why bother buying from Avalon? |
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If you are going to look at refunds you need to include the pain that was PayPal refunds. Simply can't pick and choose your goldilocks type refunds. Seems like your are trying whitewash the record. There are not 100s of refunds. There are infact 1000s of complaints and failures to follow FTC regulations. If you ask for a refund legally you should not have to wait more than a day or two to process the refund. What BFL did to you and is still doing to others is against FTC regulations and this company needs to be brought to court on this fact. It won't help to post a list of $300 to $500 refunds when we are talking millions being held and this is FACT not speculation as it is documented by the Probation Officer in Sonny V's probation hearing where he got an extra 2 years on probation and very STIFF warning to rectify ALL his customers complaints. Transcripts of the Probation Hearing against Sonny V.You can ignore all the hate posts and threats against Josh etc and BFL you can't ignore the lawsuits and the actual complaints from people who are not getting refunds in a timely manner. Your refund is just that case. You asked and had to wait a long long long time to get your refund and that is against FTC regulations. BFL is not a honest broker here and it is important that people do not make them out to be better than they are. They owe millions of dollars and have defrauded people and failed to refund them. This is not hateful speech this is fact. We will see what the court cases bring but it is clear that there many people still being abused by BFL. Do not buy BFL. Do not lay down and accept a 13 month refund. Report your problems directly to the Probation Officer of Sonny V and join the class action. That is the only way you will get BFL to take refunding seriously. This company has not changed one little bit in the way it is dealing with customers and is doing everything in it's power to slow refunds down or not give them out at all at the very same time they keep priming the ponzi pump / building the pyramid promoting the 28nm Monarch and misleading new customers that it is a great product and will be delivered in short order. If you are in denial about BFL that is one thing you can read and learn about what it is they are doing and change your thinking. If you keep on promoting these refunds as a "positive" gesture by BFL you are misleading everyone. This is not how business should be done. You get a refund when you ask for it not 30 to 45 days later. That is illegal. Did you know your 500$ went to get Sonny V a house? Why wouldn't it go to a quick refund? Or say getting your unit to you faster? Why did any money go into Sonny V's house? Q. Okay. And so in both circumstances, of the house and the loan, it was customers' money that went to Mr. Vleisides buying his house that he lives in, and to loan him and other share holders money; right? Because of this prepaid model?
A. It was certainly money that customers deposited, you know, with the company to purchase their products. I'm not entirely sure at which point legal entitlement to the money passes from the customer to the -- to the company. But the -- the money that any company uses, if it's not borrowed or put in by investors comes from its customers. In this case it all came from the customers. |
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How f@#$king lazy are you?  /thread |
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I am talking about the very first bundle batch, who payed 14000$ for an sp10 and sp30, that values the sp30 at 9000$.
(Back then there wasnīt any 10%off for ppl having other orders etc.)
I was only wondering wether there would be some kind of bonus for these, most loyal customers who now see themselves in the situation of having overpayed by the factor of 2 on the sp30.
I like steep discounts like the next guy, but these existing customers might feel mistreated.
I got one bundle like that too, but remember that we should be getting our SP30 before everyone else so we should be able to mine some bitcoins before the big increase in difficulty. I/miners always paid a premium for getting in the first batches. (paid 7k$ for a batch 1 Jup and 5k$ for batch 2 Jup and even if the second batch was faster, i got my first one earlier so i mined at lower diff) Remember, this isnīt the good old days where one month of mining makes up for 40% of equipment cost. The sp30 in the bundle offer simply costs double that what you can preorder now. People who placed trust in a company early should be rewarded more than the average joe, rather than be punished. Early bird bundles typically have some advantage to them. Again, i donīt blame spondoolies for steep discounts but i hope specifically in the outlined case, that there will be some kind of bonus. Prices shouldnīt be designed to punish those who payed earlier, with less reviews etc., having a higher risk in their orders. Wouldnīt you feel like you are being treated badly when you just realized you spent double the amount of money for an order which is only worth a little more? I can understand paying 20% more for an earlier unit, but double the price? Also this might make people think twice about ordering, if they feel like they will get the unit for half the price the next month. 316 units x 5k = large amount and a deep discount. I hope they have more sales like this so smaller buyers can get the discounts and too bad it didn't happen earlier for you. Maybe they can provide early adopters some coupons or something to help ease that sting? |
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Happy is relative.
Again your story is certainly a warning to all DON'T BUY BFL.
Let us see how the lawsuit goes I suspect 500 bucks won't be enough to sway many others that BFL is rehabbed.
Well if it takes 13 months to collect a refund and I never had any hash power sent to me for the 13 months one might draw a different conclusion then Buy BFL Since I promised to post this thread about BFL if they refunded me , this is my thread.. Sad that they never could deliver quickly and have created this term Did you get BFL'd? Used by so many of us. Oh I see you were bribed to post. Nice. That is typical of BFL. Don't BUY from them or they extort you to get a refund. That is just sad considering that FTC regs demand if you ask for a REFUND you get a REFUND. They really need to go court and face the consequences. Happy you got a refund. The fact they had to make a threat so you post or you don't a refund is pretty awful. If you would like to see Sonny V. get back wearing an orange jump suit then please feel free to report him directly to his probation officer here: U.S. Probation Officer Courtney N. Pierce Probation and Pretrial Services Office Charles Evan Whittaker Courthouse 400 East 9th Street Kansas City, MO 64106 If you want to join the Class Action against BFL go here: http://www.woodlaw.com/cases/butterfly-labs-and-bf-labs-inc-bitcoin-miners |
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Happy is relative.
Again your story is certainly a warning to all DON'T BUY BFL.
Let us see how the lawsuit goes I suspect 500 bucks won't be enough to sway many others that BFL is rehabbed.
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philipma1957 party of one.
Maybe they are going to try to send some out. Quite a few people with October cloud orders got the refund notice last month. My refund notice offer came on March 20th 2014. I have the email I will post it . Threats of going to Jail does that to people. Glad to see you are still happy after 13 months 0% loan you provided. Don't forget to let the lawyers at Woodlaw know... might be able to get you some interest. |
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philipma1957 party of one. (Anyone remember this call back?)
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Discovery BFL gives to Woodlaw will probably have more than enough evidence to determine it either way. Given the latest slow mo' delivery with the Monarch you can only imagine why it is taking 15 months to get a 28nm chip married to a board. Compared to KnC or Spondoolies? The least one can say is BFL blows at getting things to market. You can get 6.5Th/s in August for 4500 USD. I suspect the Monarch will be shipping later than that and all you get is 1 Th/s in an unproven board? BFL is already two or three generations behind with their foolish GPU inspired mining card. They won't dig out of this debacle because they have no answers to density and cooling. You don't get there using a GPU card form factor.
Put things in real tight perspective for you every unit they have built has been late and underspecification. No one in their right mind would buy BFL at this point doesn't matter how many refunds they finally give out to save Sonny V from going to jail or RMA's, no one who has done their research is going to buy from BFL. If you agree with that point then you ain't no shill.
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So I would work very hard to make these consumers happy consumers who you've dealt with. I lol'd It'd be funny if it weren't for the fact the Judge didn't really get to see the long list of people complaining. If he had I doubt Sonny V. be going to BFL HQ everyday. The likelihood of him actually getting jail time increases each day and with each new Monarch "pre-order". All they need next time they drag him in front of a judge is an expert that explains what was happening (is happening) at Eclipse during burn in "testing" miners which is something they denied doing at the time. Game over. |
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2014-04-01 0.00000000 Does not understand contest rules, Pavlov effect makes him post without thinking, completely wrong or just a bit stupid?. Hint "registration date, on what site?" Blinded by hate? All one has to understand is that BFL is buying trust and it backfired. The only person that seems to be attacking the person with hateful speech is Pokokohua! You might want to look up the experiment of Pavlov and come up with a better metaphor it is clear what I am doing is a defense mechanism not a trained response. It is more akin to the fight response. When Inaba threatens to have me fired then slanders me in attempt to scare me off you are going to get exactly this response from me. I won't be backing down from the threats from you or your other accounts BFL. You have pushed the wrong person. I won't be taking you to court I will just be sure that in any instance I can report the failures of your company as documented by others. Sonny V. 2 more years probation. BFL 15 months developing the 28nm chip. Failures to pay off bets. Failures in delivering product. Using inferior quality PSU's that have nearly burned houses down. There is plenty more documented about BFL and when your company finally folds or your owners are sentenced to jail I will be glad to watch that in person as they lead them out of the courthouse. See you soon. |
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2014-03-31 0.00000000 Too dumb to understand that spreading lies about other people will backfire some day, thanks to people like Bicknell this forum lost credibility as a whole. What lies have I spread? Credibility was lost the minute Pokokohua! started abusing the trust system. |
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Here is an example of Pokokohua! defaming my character. I will be reposting his lies here and countering them in an effort to rehabilitate my reputation. 2014-03-30 0.00000000 Pathological liar. Cheats forum members repeatedly with false information over BFL, their employees and their products -all successful- while his business fails, has absolutely no technical knowledge, qualifies non working usb hubs as bfl product failures. Falsely rates people who are producing hardware and are an asset to the bitcoin community negative, and ridicules any forum member that confronts him on his lies. Too bad a lot of these types hang around on this forum, no orders but crying scam over legit companies, while they are never seen in the real scam topics.
Where have I exhibited lying pathologically? No evidence. Where have I cheated forum members with posting false information about BFL? No evidence. Where has my "business" failed? No evidence. Where is there any evidence I have no technical knowledge? No evidence. Where have I claimed non-working USB hub as a BFL failure? No evidence. Where have I falsely rated anyone producing hardware? No evidence. Where have I ridiculed anyone? No evidence Where have I lied? No evidence. He is obviously not looking at the forum very carefully. I have complained about other fabricators not just BFL. Not factual. |
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Quote from: Spondoolies-Tech on April 28, 2014, 19:42:10
The SP30 will be able to produce over 6 THs. Probably over 6.5 THs with 2700 Watt (2 X 1200 rated PSUs, each PSU is able to input 1350 Watt) Wow! So for that is a pretty sizeable increase for the dollars put in. I hope it is possible. |
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Time is relative. February 2013 BFL starts work on 28nm chips*** March 2013 April 2013 May 2013 June 2013 July 2013 August 2013 News of BFL's 28nm chips hits the media September 2013 October 2013 November 2013 - No Monarchs December 2013 - No Monarchs January 2014 - No Monarch February 2014 - No Monarch March 2014 - No Monarch April 2014 - No Monarch May 2014 - TBA 15 months and still no Monarch. The revised "B" chips are supposedly working. Given that they have not put a chip to board and shown anything remotely close to hashing we are still weeks or months yet to see the Monarch 28nm. Still you can't get an immediate refund as per FTC rules. |
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We have lost patience with management at Hashfast. As outside observers, it is impossible to separate incompetence from systematic fraud but it is clear that one or both is pervasive at the company.
We have waited patiently on a moderately large order (62 Sierras) while 6 months from our promised shipping date has gone past. Over a month ago we cancelled our orders and demanded a refund as is our legal right. Not only has a refund not been forthcoming, no one at Hashfast bothers to respond to messages. However when we inquired about purchasing another $1M in hardware, we had three emails and phone calls within an hour.
We have determined that a lawsuit is an ineffective approach at this point. Instead we are going to apply to the court to have a receiver appointed to take control of the company. By law, if 3 creditors, owed over $15k IN TOTAL apply to the court, the company can be placed under the control of a receiver. The receiver will take control of the assets and debts of the company, determine if the operation can continue under new management or liquidate the assets as needed. The receiver will also be obligated to find and report for prosecution any misuse of company funds that he finds.
Understandably this is a drastic move, but we believe it is our only option. Hashfast has no right to operate using our money, and clearly they cannot operate without it or our refund would have been paid long ago. If you would like to join us in this action, PM me. All of the legal fees to move forward have already be paid.
Some people will not want Hashfast to be disrupted in this way, but we believe it is the only fair way to handle the situation. Experience with MtGox and Bitfloor has shown that allowing an insolvent company to continue operating just results in additional losses for everyone (and often rewards insiders who cheat and steal from the rightful creditors). By taking this action, all money flows from Hashfast will be reviewed and any fraudulent payments will have to be returned. It will also stop boards that were paid for last year from being resold to scammers like Ken Slaughter rather than being delivered to their rightful owners.
We anticipate actual filings will be made next week. Hashfast can easily prevent this by paying the refunds that are owed.
Interesting direction here is hoping that you can manage to pull this off. It would definitely put companies on notice if you can get this done. |
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Wish we could scrape together a few more people to get 2 or 3 more SP30's... like everyone else said we are hoping for the BTC to rebound soon. Tired of the YoYo BoC rulings and commentary pulling it down and keeping it there.
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PhilWray NEW SPAMMER! Remember people you might want to report any instance of fraud from BFL and Sonny V. directly to his probation officer or the judge that presided over his probation hearing. U.S. Probation Officer Courtney N. Pierce Probation and Pretrial Services Office Charles Evan Whittaker Courthouse 400 East 9th Street Kansas City, MO 64106 David Gregory Kays, Chief District Judge Contact Information The judge's most damning comments, however, centered on his overall BFL observations: Now, there is a stench coming from Butterfly Labs. It's a strong smell. It's not enough to send you to prison today, because, to be quite honest with you, if it was, we'd be talking about 24 months in prison. It's notI think it's too close. I think [defense witness] Mr. Bourne did a very good job of testifying, and it assisted your defense greatly. But if I find out that there is this fraud word involved in this part, you know, Mr. Vleisides, as we say here at the courthouse, you need to get your toothbrush and get your things in order, because fraud will not be tolerated, you understand that? So I would work very hard to make these consumers happy consumers who you've dealt with.
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