Yup... so much to know. So little time. I don't envy anyone who is involved in this mess. Creditor or Debtor at this point doesn't matter. You have to kiss and make up so fast that you are going to feel like a whore no matter what happens. But given the push in the courtroom today I think even if the lawyers don't get it the parties do understand there is little time for hate left. You will have to suck it and work out the best solution for everyone. It could be the turd of all turds or you could come out ok.

I think it was a smart move to force this and put, as it was said so well before, the adults in charge. If you have 40,000 working chips then you do have a great resource from which to build something.

Exactly.

The floor is dropping fast.

ASiCminer is 1$ and they are too pricy when you can get a whole fricken miner for about $1 a Gh/s for the S1 and under $2 gh/s for 6.5Th/s monster in the SP30s in August. It is nuts but if they don't get off their asses here in the next 3 to 4 weeks you are going to have to basically take the IP and produce 100s of thousands of chips and sell them at a few pennies each to fix this come July or August.

As an example I thought my purchase of 2 SP30s for only $0.69 per Gh/s is a solid buy with delivery for 13 Th/s. But you know what... the more I look into August I fear I just spent double what the $ per Gh/s will be then or worse. You have to have $ to make the board or you go with slash and burn policy and dump as many cheaper chips on the market as you can and recoup that way. In fact I suspect if HF in Chapter 11 did that you guys would be fully restored with proper compensation. You would kill off a lot of competitors as well.

So, $2.40 per Gh/s. Doesn't include PSU and host controller or shipping?

We are not working on the Minion chips at this time. We are working with the Hammer SpondooliesTech trying to develop a board that goes into a DataTank test system at Allied Control hopefully in June when I am in HK for the Inside Bitcoin conference. Our Minion design board will only be starting later in 2014.

Best suggestion don't take the chips unless you have something already tested and working and fabricator you can trust. Such a small number of chips will be a fairly expensive build. You might be waiting a lot longer than just being patient for them to figure out their issues with the backplane. Or take the miner compensation and mine or sell them.

Psst...

You know what I see?

Cheaper miners finally. This is going to be a proper price war this time.

Having listened to the recording it seems to look like a move to a voluntary Chapter 11.

It looks like the judge has set that there will be 'protections' put in place until then and the people seeking relief will get relief. Very positive for the creditors and debtor I think.

40,000 chips in hand at HF from the records.

The $ per Gh/s worth less each day on the HF chips. The sharks are circling and it doesn't matter no one is going to pay top dollar now for anything given the competition. You won't get a lot for these without a board, and a team that can build them. You have competition and the longer sales take the LESS everyone is going to get. Find someone that can run production is your only hope to recover anything for creditors.

$1 Gh/s is what AM is selling them there might be a floor you want... but every week you delay the floor will be dropping out from under you. All these parties are going to have to get together and FIX this fast or you are all screwed.

See you on Wednesday.

Not that it will get anyone's money BTC back I left a negative trust rating on BKKCoins and sent him a message via gmail to say as much. He needs to work out a payment plan to refund everyone.

Has he refunded yet?

People need to put his trust rating in negative if he doesn't pay you guys. Scammer.

Marto74 Add Negative Trust Here

Thought experiment for everyone. If you were to buy a pre-order today and you had only two options BFL or SpondooliesTech which would you risk buying?

Buy a BFL a 1 Th/s of Imperial Monarch unit.

+ $2,939 USD
+ 1 TH/s nominal performance ( + / - 20% )
+ $2.94 per Gh/s but does not include shipping, casing, host computer or PSU.
+ You need an external host computer
+ You need a PSU
+ Chips failed first production bullet run.
+ Unknown delivery date.
+ Water block cooling unrated so there is no way to check if you can run this machine at 1 TH/s and cool it properly.
+ Safety Certification None
+ Emissions Compliance None
+ 650w (estimated at the wall consumption)

28nm Chip Specifications

Process Node   28 nm

*Chips specifications are undocumented on the product page.

Buy a Spondoolies Tech 2U - SP30 Yukon unit

+ $5,395 USD
+ 5.4TH/s ± 10% (6.5 Th/s suggested) unit.
+ $1.20USD per Gh/s
+ August delivery.
+ Chip tape out completed
+ Air cooled
+ Self contained unit
+ Safety Certification CE
+ Emissions Compliance FCC / CE
+ Nominal Power Consumption 2500 W

Rockerbox Chip Specifications

Process Node   28 nm
Package Type   23 mm x 23 mm HFCBGA with stiffener
I/O                  Serial protocol with clk, datain and dataout

Rated Hash Rate   

Rated hash rate:        187 GH/s per chip, with a wide range of overclock/downclock options
Rated Voltage            0.7 V, recommended voltage range is 0.63 V - 0.8 V
Power Consumption    0.38 W/GH/s

The options are clear.

With real competition even our 'professor' won't buy BFL given his statements.

So I don't see where he thinks that BFL can survive if they never put out products that ship off the shelf which is now becoming standard for their competitors?

BFL is dead. They don't have a next design, they don't have a current design. They have at this point nothing to sell. If you know anything about their past performance the best advice you can give anyone DO NOT BUY BFL. DO NOT MINE ON ECLIPSE.

This is not bashing BFL. It is just factual information unlike the pretty graph that has no mention of Spondoolies products on it I wonder why they are omitted?

It was PRE-USED. Not new.

They are done. They can't compete with China or Spondoolies. It is over for BFL. Nothing on the drawing board now. They can't even finish a 28nm PCB and it is something that is already many times more expensive than what is available when you put in all the extra pieces that you need to get it working. Cooked. Add to that the executives are buying up real estate to protect their assets you know  this all going to come crashing down. Sonny V will be wearing prison orange again.

Let me clarify for you even further. I agree.

I would however add that BFL has NEVER EVER put out product that is NEW and off the shelf. Everything has been pre-order or pre-used. Their best product is 2x the lowest price product available off the shelf. BFL is done they were done 16 months ago. They have lied too much and scammed too much to be a player in the marketplace. There is NOTHING they can pretend to put on the drawing board next that people are going to believe is better or be able to be delivered in a 6 month less development window as that is the pace of development now if you take what Spondoolies is doing 2 chips developments at the same time.

6000 paypal complaints means just that.
283 FTC complaints means just that.

Most of that was from a year span on their 65nm chip based products. That is a SIGNIFICANT number of complaints to be filed about BFL in 18 month window. You seem to want to argue that there is some sort of reasonable explanation for that sort of volume? 300 complaints a month really?

I see it as clearly as the 6283 individuals that filed complaints with PayPal and the FTC. I see it as clearly as many of those who have joined the class action lawsuits against BFL. I see it as clearly as I need to see it and that has nothing to do with any other companies or cooperatives trying to put product out. This isn't about the WPC this isn't about SpondooliesTech or Bitmain. It is about B F L.

Again the simple facts BFL is not to be trusted. Do not buy BFL. Simple.

Ask anyone that is in the WPC or has actually done business with with personally if I am to be trusted. Then compare that with what you know about BFL. There is nothing I have to hide. BFL... they are hiding as much as they can as fast as they can. Let us keep the focus on the real problem. BFL lies and takes people's hard earned money and doesn't refund promptly or at all according to FTC rules.

Listen buddy. BFL lies to the community. If you want to support that then you are going to get backlash. There are still millions of dollars tied up and refunds are not coming to people who have asked for them. So if you are somehow not adamant about calling out BFL and their BS what are the hell are you doing?

Seriously they set power numbers they were wrong last time.
They said December 2013 it is May 2014.

If you want talk about the pretty graph great... where can this data be independently verified? Does Luke Jr. have a working unit that we don't know about yet that he "got" sitting on a BFL test bench hashing away? Listen these slimy BFL bastards had their chance to be upstanding fabricators. Let us just simply tell the truth.

They are untrustworthy. No one should buy anything from them including mining on the Eclipse pool.

Where is a REAL board doing REAL hashing? Till that is available they can keep saying the magic unicorn will hash 1 Th/s all they like. Given how long it has been now and the competition out there you don't have to wait for their unicorns.

And how much does it cost today and if I order today when will I see it?

Sorry but fuck the graphs where is the product?

If BFL has nothing on the shelf the whole conversation here about power etc is bullshit yet again... the best chip doesn't mean squat if it isn't hashing in a customers hands. That is the issue. BFL has never done that part well. They never will and given they tried 3 times now we might want to suspect they do it on purpose. Don't buy the graph buy hardware that ships from reputable companies. DON'T BUY BFL bottomline.

psst...

How much will it cost in a pcb, with a psu, in a case and where is it and when will it be delivered?

mic drop.

What is under the copper? Working board? Pictures from BFL seen those before have we not? What most customers have been lacking for 6 months is a product in their hands hashing hard.

Nothing but a testing board that is being used by the lead EE. Looking at June as I posted above for the prototype for cooling in the Data Tank mock up at Allied Control.

Nothing goes out the door unless we are sure someone can build it and get the firmware running on it and hashing away. So we are focused on that right now. The only clock / calendar we are concerned with at this point is one that gets us a system that is working and can demonstrate the fact it can be reworked for the more powerful 28nm chips and cooled effectively so that the chips don't melt themselves off the PCB. Two stages before we get something to the end users. Feel free to PM me if you want a sneak peek at our next meeting that way you can find out where we are at.

Let us get back to the WPC stuff. Let Marto have his 12 threads.

Good luck indeed... make sure you do investigate any fabricator before you use them and that goes DOUBLE for that one given the issues some people have had getting refunds and hardware at times. You have been duly warned. Go ask Joeventura, Ben Turas and Darkfriend77 about what they had to go through with them.


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